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MGH vs. BWH vs. BID
- Thread starter ether
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You are right. The AANA will claim equivalence between MDA and CRNA except for those who graduated from Brigham so they won't have to worry "nationally" about jobs...
I think he meant worrying about jobs vs. MGH grads. You would have known this if you read the rest of the thread. What a fool.
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the sarcasm flew way over your head.
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"...BWH is now the hip and progressive place to be in the Harvard systems...MGH has historically been the heavy hitter..."
Trust me folks, prospective employers don't care diddly squat about the latest 'hip' residency. Assuming all things equal (not a sociopath, decent references, etc), fair or not-- a residency's perceived prestige/reputation WILL be the deciding factor (in my case MGH). Am I smarter/better trained as compared to grads from other major medical centers? Maybe, maybe not. Was this the PERCEPTION of my eventual employer? YES. I landed a gig in a major market, making a salary at the 99th percentile, in a group that 'don't hire new grads.' Would I have gotten this job if I went to BWH or BIDMC? For obvious reasons I will never know. Anyways, this is how it turn out for me and I am grateful for my choice of residency.
Trust me folks, prospective employers don't care diddly squat about the latest 'hip' residency. Assuming all things equal (not a sociopath, decent references, etc), fair or not-- a residency's perceived prestige/reputation WILL be the deciding factor (in my case MGH). Am I smarter/better trained as compared to grads from other major medical centers? Maybe, maybe not. Was this the PERCEPTION of my eventual employer? YES. I landed a gig in a major market, making a salary at the 99th percentile, in a group that 'don't hire new grads.' Would I have gotten this job if I went to BWH or BIDMC? For obvious reasons I will never know. Anyways, this is how it turn out for me and I am grateful for my choice of residency.
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Please keep posting, this stuff is great
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I feel that all of these discussions re: MGH versus Brigham are pretty much useless (or comparisons between any elite program for that matter). Its pretty much the same as discussing BMW versus Mercedes. Its just a matter of personal preference. An employer might be slightly more biased only if he/she graduated from that residency program. But again, its just luck of the draw that a potential employer or group will be comprised mostly from one particular training program or another.
However, I feel that an important sticking point from SDN is from those people that post "just go to whatever training program makes you happy." In my opinion, you are a fool if you reject a place like MGH or Johns Hopkins for a mediocre program. You don't go to residency to be happy. It's going to be hard work regardless. You are there to suck it up and then be in a position to get a job that will make you happy. Three years is a small price to pay to be able to walk into whatever job you want for the rest of your life. Even if not the best training, a big name will carry more national weight and typically will also have more connections (phone calls) from senior faculty members in the department. Having come from a very mediocre medical school and then going to a good residency - I can honestly say pedigree makes a HUGE difference.
However, I feel that an important sticking point from SDN is from those people that post "just go to whatever training program makes you happy." In my opinion, you are a fool if you reject a place like MGH or Johns Hopkins for a mediocre program. You don't go to residency to be happy. It's going to be hard work regardless. You are there to suck it up and then be in a position to get a job that will make you happy. Three years is a small price to pay to be able to walk into whatever job you want for the rest of your life. Even if not the best training, a big name will carry more national weight and typically will also have more connections (phone calls) from senior faculty members in the department. Having come from a very mediocre medical school and then going to a good residency - I can honestly say pedigree makes a HUGE difference.
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Copied from a different thread on MGH/BWH. I have nothing to add about BID except if you can go to MGH/BWH, go there over BID.
Going around the forum to debunk any myths about MGH. Recent grad. There is no service > education problems at MGH. You will ALWAYS, without fail, get out by 5pm in the main OR. We have lectures/board reviews 3-4 days per week. And the PD's are intense about education. Our PD just won best PD award in the country from the ACGME. MGH breeds anesthesiologists that are at the top of their game, are prepared for any scenario, and with a name that can secure you any job. I have first hand experience with this. Not to speak poorly about Brigham but I rotated through Brigham as a resident (a lot of the Boston hospitals have inter-program rotations). I felt that we were more efficient and better-trained. Brigham people are definitely nice, don't get me wrong. But if I was undergoing anesthesia, when it comes to knowledge and skill, I'd rather have a lion than a lamb. Choose MGH and never look back.
Also see my other post:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...nt-grad-current-resident-perspective.1046231/
Long time lurker, first time poster. I graduated from MGH 2 years ago and can address any concerns you may have about MGH. First things first, apart from Hopkins, I don't believe there will be another program out there that will bring as much prestige and opportunity as Massachusetts General Hospital. I say this because when you say Harvard, the majority of people (medical and lay), will think of MGH. In the job market, you will never have to explain what type of candidate you are, your work ethic, your intelligence, or anything else for that matter. It will be assumed that you are top notch. The alumni network is far and wide. You will secure a job in any market you want and fellowships are for the taking. Whether you are from California, Texas, New York, Colorado, Podunk, you will be fine if you come to MGH.
In terms of what the above poster said about Charnin suggesting you not have a family or that there is a tension between service and education, I'll say that more than half the residents are in families and have kids. He does have an eccentric sense of humor so maybe you missed something. Every few months, there is another resident that is delivering at MGH or has a spouse that delivers. This does not interfere with their education. You will always be out of the OR by 5pm without fail. There is a call team, several PM CRNAs, and countless junior attendings trying to make extra cash by doing "night incentives" (working nights to make extra $$). Usually several of these attendings are turned away because there are not enough cases to go around towards the end of the day. So there is definitely no shortage of people to take over your case at 5pm. In terms of didactics, also no shortage. There are advanced lectures on Mondays, basic lectures on Tuesdays, case conference and board review on Thursdays, and again more board review (with free pizza) on Fridays. You can go to as many or as few of these as you would like. And ALL of these are protected times so even if you are working nights in the ICU, you will be allowed to attend these lectures.
In terms of our other leadership, both Baker and Weiner-Kronish are awesome. Weiner-Kronish is one of the editors of Miller's Anesthesia. Our emeritus chief, Warren Zapol is one of the editors to Longnecker. And Baker was just awarded the 2014 best program director in the country by the ACGME (https://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PDFs/Awards/ACGME_Award_Recipients2014.pdf). So they all have nothing to hide. But also, they are very approachable. They knew my name within the first week I was there and knew it in the hallway 6 months later when I hadn't seem them in awhile. They will take you out to dinner, stay late to meet with you. They will support you in any endeavor that you believe will enrich your training including basic research, going abroad, clinical research, international meetings, publications/posters, anything. And the residents have a HUGE say in what happens in the department. Baker is constantly imploring the residents to give usable feedback to make changes in the residency. I will give you a good example. There was an attending who the residents did not feel like was a good teacher and he consistently received bad evaluations from residents throughout the past year. He was a perfectly capable and knowledgeable attending but he was let go this year because of resident input.
In terms of MGH vs. BWH, you can see that there has been a shift in the past few years of where Harvard Medical Students have been ranking 1st. The MGH residency may have been overworked 10 years ago, but now it is very strict on hours and very educational. The majority of HMS (who rotate both at BWH and MGH) are coming to MGH when you look at the match results. And they have the best insight into both programs. As an MGH resident, I did rotate at BWH fpr a rotation and found that they are a very nice group of people. But IMO, they were not as sharp and efficient as MGH. There is just nothing that compares to the rigor and education of MGH. It will test you to your limit, but you will survive, and you will be a better anesthesiologist for it in the end. When I worked with BWH attendings who had graduated from MGH, they voiced at how refreshing it was to work with an MGH resident again who was quick on their feet and had great attention to detail.
All in all, you can't go wrong. As someone who has seen many different programs and finished at MGH, I will say that the differences between programs like MGH, BWH, Mayo, Hopkins, UCSF are marginal. There is more alike than different between these programs and in the end, it really won't matter. But I have first hand experience with MGH (and a little with BWh) and I will say that you will at the top of your game when you graduate, you will enjoy your residency (as much as residency can be enjoyed), you will enjoy the company of your co-residents (MGH likes to pick residents that are smart but also very down-to-earth), and you will always have the name "MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL" in your resume. And few things can ever beat that. Good luck to all you guys.
Going around the forum to debunk any myths about MGH. Recent grad. There is no service > education problems at MGH. You will ALWAYS, without fail, get out by 5pm in the main OR. We have lectures/board reviews 3-4 days per week. And the PD's are intense about education. Our PD just won best PD award in the country from the ACGME. MGH breeds anesthesiologists that are at the top of their game, are prepared for any scenario, and with a name that can secure you any job. I have first hand experience with this. Not to speak poorly about Brigham but I rotated through Brigham as a resident (a lot of the Boston hospitals have inter-program rotations). I felt that we were more efficient and better-trained. Brigham people are definitely nice, don't get me wrong. But if I was undergoing anesthesia, when it comes to knowledge and skill, I'd rather have a lion than a lamb. Choose MGH and never look back.
Also see my other post:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...nt-grad-current-resident-perspective.1046231/
Long time lurker, first time poster. I graduated from MGH 2 years ago and can address any concerns you may have about MGH. First things first, apart from Hopkins, I don't believe there will be another program out there that will bring as much prestige and opportunity as Massachusetts General Hospital. I say this because when you say Harvard, the majority of people (medical and lay), will think of MGH. In the job market, you will never have to explain what type of candidate you are, your work ethic, your intelligence, or anything else for that matter. It will be assumed that you are top notch. The alumni network is far and wide. You will secure a job in any market you want and fellowships are for the taking. Whether you are from California, Texas, New York, Colorado, Podunk, you will be fine if you come to MGH.
In terms of what the above poster said about Charnin suggesting you not have a family or that there is a tension between service and education, I'll say that more than half the residents are in families and have kids. He does have an eccentric sense of humor so maybe you missed something. Every few months, there is another resident that is delivering at MGH or has a spouse that delivers. This does not interfere with their education. You will always be out of the OR by 5pm without fail. There is a call team, several PM CRNAs, and countless junior attendings trying to make extra cash by doing "night incentives" (working nights to make extra $$). Usually several of these attendings are turned away because there are not enough cases to go around towards the end of the day. So there is definitely no shortage of people to take over your case at 5pm. In terms of didactics, also no shortage. There are advanced lectures on Mondays, basic lectures on Tuesdays, case conference and board review on Thursdays, and again more board review (with free pizza) on Fridays. You can go to as many or as few of these as you would like. And ALL of these are protected times so even if you are working nights in the ICU, you will be allowed to attend these lectures.
In terms of our other leadership, both Baker and Weiner-Kronish are awesome. Weiner-Kronish is one of the editors of Miller's Anesthesia. Our emeritus chief, Warren Zapol is one of the editors to Longnecker. And Baker was just awarded the 2014 best program director in the country by the ACGME (https://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PDFs/Awards/ACGME_Award_Recipients2014.pdf). So they all have nothing to hide. But also, they are very approachable. They knew my name within the first week I was there and knew it in the hallway 6 months later when I hadn't seem them in awhile. They will take you out to dinner, stay late to meet with you. They will support you in any endeavor that you believe will enrich your training including basic research, going abroad, clinical research, international meetings, publications/posters, anything. And the residents have a HUGE say in what happens in the department. Baker is constantly imploring the residents to give usable feedback to make changes in the residency. I will give you a good example. There was an attending who the residents did not feel like was a good teacher and he consistently received bad evaluations from residents throughout the past year. He was a perfectly capable and knowledgeable attending but he was let go this year because of resident input.
In terms of MGH vs. BWH, you can see that there has been a shift in the past few years of where Harvard Medical Students have been ranking 1st. The MGH residency may have been overworked 10 years ago, but now it is very strict on hours and very educational. The majority of HMS (who rotate both at BWH and MGH) are coming to MGH when you look at the match results. And they have the best insight into both programs. As an MGH resident, I did rotate at BWH fpr a rotation and found that they are a very nice group of people. But IMO, they were not as sharp and efficient as MGH. There is just nothing that compares to the rigor and education of MGH. It will test you to your limit, but you will survive, and you will be a better anesthesiologist for it in the end. When I worked with BWH attendings who had graduated from MGH, they voiced at how refreshing it was to work with an MGH resident again who was quick on their feet and had great attention to detail.
All in all, you can't go wrong. As someone who has seen many different programs and finished at MGH, I will say that the differences between programs like MGH, BWH, Mayo, Hopkins, UCSF are marginal. There is more alike than different between these programs and in the end, it really won't matter. But I have first hand experience with MGH (and a little with BWh) and I will say that you will at the top of your game when you graduate, you will enjoy your residency (as much as residency can be enjoyed), you will enjoy the company of your co-residents (MGH likes to pick residents that are smart but also very down-to-earth), and you will always have the name "MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL" in your resume. And few things can ever beat that. Good luck to all you guys.
