Miami MD/MPH or GW MD?

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Miami MD/MPH vs George Washington MD?


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Dtran904

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Hey everyone,

I'm having a hard time picking between George Washington M.D. program vs Miami MD/MPH program. I have been accepted to both programs. What do you guys think and why?

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Do you want a MPH? Would you use it in your future career?
 
Do you want a MPH? Would you use it in your future career?

I am interested in plastics/surgery as a residency choice. However, I am also very interested in working with underserved populations and health disparities. I think the MPH would provide me with useful information and credibility but I'm not really sure if its "necessary" for what I want to do as a physician.
 
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Plastics and health disparities huh?
 
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I have encountered a few surgeons who also have MPHs, although none of them have been plastics. Most of them don't seem to use the degree too much though.

I would perhaps recommend basing your decision more on the MD part of the two programs.
 
Normally I would agree with the previous posters but since this MPH is part of a 4 year program that doesn't cost a whole lot extra I would lean towards Miami. Which did you like better?
 
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You can add a year long MPH at GW, correct? IMHO their public health faculty are absolutely fantastic, and there are brilliant resources if you're interested in health policy and/or social determinants specifically.
 
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If one is going to be a surgeon, then I think an MBA is probably a more reasonable degree.

I'm interested in getting an MPH and interested in doing surgery, but I'm already doing research that I'd like to build on as a physician.
 
To throw another wrench into the equation, please do keep in mind that securing a plastic residency can be quite challenging. Should you find that your interests have changed once you reach medical school, or if you are unable to match into plastics, you may find that an MPH may play a bigger role in your future specialty.
 
If one is going to be a surgeon, then I think an MBA is probably a more reasonable degree.

I'm interested in getting an MPH and interested in doing surgery, but I'm already doing research that I'd like to build on as a physician.
MBA=\= running a business
 
Normally I would agree with the previous posters but since this MPH is part of a 4 year program that doesn't cost a whole lot extra I would lean towards Miami. Which did you like better?

I liked both. I'm going to be attending second look at both schools for sure but it was pretty split. I am a Florida resident as it is so Miami isn't too unfamiliar for me in terms of atmosphere and weather, DC on the other hand is drastically different but not uncomfortable. Going to GW allows for opportunities to work with a diverse under served population and allows for connections to be made in terms of research and policy with things such as the NIH so close by. On the other hand Miami is stellar in terms of diversity too and is a bit more laid back feeling. With the MPH program, I'd have the extra public health classes and rotations at an entirely different hospital than the MD students but it does offer an extra dynamic, while GW offers the 1.5 yr pre clinical that I love.

It's a tough decision right now. Living costs are relatively the same in both places and tuition is not too significantly different in the grand scheme of things. I'm just trying to evaluate what I should be considering at this point.

Thanks for all the replies so far! They're a great help.
 
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Why don't you just make a damn decision?

You have plenty of time to mull this over. What's important to you? One can't underestimate the importance of a year. Doing an MD/MPH in 4 years means that you could take a research year, use that MPH and do awesome shiet before matching. Depending on what you want to match into, that could be a big deal.
 
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Did you apply to the MD/MPH at GWU and not get in? I don't understand why that isn't an option for you. There really isn't much correlation between plastics and public health. So if your end goal truly is plastics, I would give serious thought to whether or not the MPH is worth it to you. However, as others have mentioned, plastics is highly competitive and your interests might change once you're in med school. Having the MPH may help to direct your interests. If you can truly get the MPH at both schools, I would focus on which MD program better fits your interests and will provide you with better options in the long run. That's going to be what is really important here.
 
hmm i think someone mentioned earlier - if you dont match plastics, which school has a better match list (in regards to your other interests?
)
 
what about curriculum set up? which do you prefer? block scheduling? PBL learning? systems based learning? i dont know much about miami but i know GW has their student run inner city clinic, earlier clinical exposure (step I taken in march), 8 weeks to study for step I, track programs. etc. true pass/fail? is there something that stands out or is unique about miami in comparison to GW?

im just throwing out some things i was told to consider when making my decision.
 
I am interested in plastics/surgery as a residency choice. However, I am also very interested in working with underserved populations and health disparities. I think the MPH would provide me with useful information and credibility but I'm not really sure if its "necessary" for what I want to do as a physician.

This has got to be a joke.
 
This program does not allow negative responses to be put on public forums. So therefore only positive things are true and negative ones are not.
 
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If you go to GW and decide you really want the MPH, you can do it in one year there or at Hopkins. Or in summers during fellowship. That and you'll keep your sanity by not attending those MPH courses while thinking about all the time you're not studying for medical courses.

Pick where you want to be for four years and the populations you want to work with during clinical.
 
I am interested in plastics/surgery as a residency choice. However, I am also very interested in working with underserved populations and health disparities. I think the MPH would provide me with useful information and credibility but I'm not really sure if its "necessary" for what I want to do as a physician.
There IS a need for plastic surgeons in underserved populations. Off the top of my head, I know they need surgeons overseas for cleft lip/palate repair, and I imagine they could use those able to perform reconstructive surgery on civilians injured in war or violence. I would assume there is a similar need in underserved populations state-side as well.

I think you need to answer the question, though, of how you plan to use an MPH in working with the underserved. If you know how you intend to use the knowledge from a public health education then I would say go for it. If you're getting it just for the letters after your name, it may not be worth your time and effort. Overall, I think you should go to the medical school that best fits you in preparing to become a doctor. But I don't think an MD/MPH at Miami is necessarily worth it if the MPH is the only reason you'd go there and you don't know how you're going to use the extra degree. At GW you can always go the route @maccu5000 suggested (usually between your third and fourth year).
 
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This program does not allow negative responses to be put on public forums. So therefore only positive things are true and negative ones are not.
 
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If the above is true, then the OP can still choose to go to Miami MD over GW MD.

For all we know, the OP is a team player so your criticism is moot. Atleast we know you're honest @gingeryasian . Not sure how many people would declare that they're not team players lmao.
 
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Just an FYI (first year MD MPH at Miami) here is the match list for UM's first graduating MD MPH class. As you will see someone this year actually matched plastics out of the 50 students in the program.

https://excel.office.live.com/x/ExcelView.aspx?FBsrc=https://www.facebook.com/attachments/file_preview.php?id=711014052348383&time=1427313145&metadata&access_token=100001735061526:AVLz87euVvS-yGKrgY1RN5HjyUKVezheKoP9ksu9HKLByw&title=MD:MPH 2015 Match List.xlsx

Some good ish in that list. Rad onc, optho, plastics. Cool!
 
Yeah. No knock on them, but I have heard faculty say that each subsequent year the board scores for the MD/MPH class has gone up. So if they placed this well I imagine the teaching methods must be working for most.
It's just always good policy to take an honest look at yourself and make sure your values/learning style match up with any program you are considering attending.
It's not all about prestige and rankings.
Thats my 0.02 cents OP.
 
One of the feelings I got from my interview at the regional campus was that the deans admitted that the program was new and wasn't perfect, but they were open to feedback from students to make it better. The hosts I stayed with (4th years) all said that their concerns were very well received and that substantial improvements had been made for the classes that followed them.
 
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Dang I wish someone else from UM MD\MPH could comment after a rant like that... :eek:
 
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This program does not allow negative responses to be put on public forums. So, therefore only positive things are true and must be taken the most serious and negative ones are all obviously wrong.
 
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I don't know whether I trust students that have so few posts to their name, first of all.

I interacted with many of the MD/MPH students at Miami when I interviewed there. The first years liked it and my student hosts were honest about the program.

I also interacted with many fourth year students at the clinical site where they were located over 2-3 days and they were excited about the upcoming match and had all enjoyed their time. They also said that they had the space to voice concerns and they were taken seriously.

One of them was planning on matching plastics and had seemed to get a lot done re publications over his time at the school.

Edit: Guess he actually matched Plastics!
 
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Alrighty…
As a first-year MD-MPH at UMiami, I feel compelled to respond to a few of the comments above. Yes, I created a SDN account specifically for this purpose.

Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and their strengths and weaknesses. I do not mean to discount anyone's experience, and I am truly sorry for the fourth-year student who feels that they were not able to perform to their full potential in this program.

First, many of the things that GingeryAsian discusses (PBL, having mandatory classes) are all things that are readily public on the school's website. It is not a secret that PBL is a significant part of our program; in fact the school is quite proud of it. Furthermore, while PBL certainly has challenges that lecture does not, it is not some crazy experiment that only UMiami is doing. On the contrary, almost all of the medical schools that I interviewed at (8 schools) incorporate PBL or other small-group learning into their curriculum now, and is backed by evidence that is promotes clinical learning. While I would say opinions on PBL vary among students, blaming the school for failing to suit one's personal quirks is not productive.

Similarly, older students were more than willing to show me sample schedules and discuss in detail what their typical week looked like. None of us should have been surprised by the number or length of mandatory classes (which in fact almost never go 8-5 straight, and I would argue that an extra hour here or there does in fact make a difference if you're using your time well).

It is certainly true that these characteristics make the program not ideal for everyone, but I do not feel in any way surprised or deceived by the curriculum. Additionally, many of us are not weeks behind in our studying, as GingeryAsian seems to suggest. Most importantly, I strongly disagree that the MD's are "thriving and happy" compared to the MD-MPH; there are aspects that we both like and dislike about our respective programs. This is graduate school; the school provides many resources and expects us to take the initiative to use them. Our motivation to pursue both degrees and study the long hours needed must ultimately come from us; it is not the school's responsibility to make us want to study.

Regarding studying for the boards, again we were told how much time we would have. Many changes have been made since the inaugural class, including increased pathology and histology focus in lecture, in order to better prepare us for boards. It is my understanding that a significant number of students in the inaugural class failed the first time. I really can't comment on how well-prepared we are for boards relative to the MD's because I am a first-year, but I am confident that it is in the administration's best interest to ensure that we are able to succeed and pursue the careers that we wish. I fully acknowledge that this could turn out to be a weakness in the program, I'm just speaking from my understanding so far.

I would never try to sell anyone on a program that I did not genuinely believe in, and while there have certainly been days where I'd prefer to nap from 1:00-4:00 rather than study public health, I have overall been extremely happy in this program. I would be happy to answer private messages.
 
Woah, they had a bad board pass rate the first year? I'm even more happy I didn't get in now.
 
Hi -- I felt compelled to reply because I am an MD/MPH student at UMiami and feel that I can offer a point of view that is worth considering. I honestly can see both sides of what is being said here: there is no denying that there are lot of mandatory classes. We also learn through the PBL model, albeit re-imagined through the administrations eyes. Yet, we are also learning advanced epidemiology, prevention modeling, research methodology, and practical skills related to community level interventions. I would submit that anyone who complains about the amount of classtime we're forced to sit through while pursuing two degrees is missing the point entirely. God help their patients.

At first, I actually was taken aback by what I percieved to be a poorly designed program. I am a "gunner" type, vehemently competitive. The harder I fought it, the worse it seemed. ("I'd rather bury myelf in a book, design my own schedule, and crush the memorization game. Why am I starting at 8AM to work with a small group, etc., etc.")

At a certain point I realized that the only thing precluding me from the level of education I aspired to was my own opinions. I started coming in at 5:30 and staying late - many nights past 11. Yes, the dual-degree program must study all weekend too . And our cohort is being trained into collaborative thinking through PBL -- so we make time for that. Here's the kicker: getting two degrees in a new program is daunting. Don't do it if you don't have the constitution to balance the demand of class work all day. Don't pursue a public health degree if you don't understand why you want it. You'll end up bitter and very publicly ragging on the success of others to whom you owe much of your knowledge.

That's half my advice - the other half is that if you are willing to accept the responsibility of being a graduate and medical school student you will experience a scholastic tempo unmatched anywhere else in the nation. In the first six months of school, I submitted three first-author abstracts to various conferences, am in process of desinging a clinical intervention through trauma, and am running data on a multi-institutional study that I've been a part of for the past four years (tying UMiami into a previous study I built in undergrad). The reason I feel empowered to do these things are because of the daily practice at team-building through PBL and the research support I found in seeking out appropriate mentors through our program. The program's research methodology focus and collaborative design has honed our skills - those of us who have embraced the strengths of the program are self-starting research projects with others and are spontaneous in appreciating how to maximize the potential of six type As. Those who cannot learn to work around and among strong personalities should turn in their white coats, honestly.

Also, the rumors about our anatomy program are true: we not only get our own cadavers, but we also get the left over cadavers of the regular class to dissect at our leisure, which breaks down to two students per cadaver; and we dissect over the course of the entire year. Even with these extracurriculars, we find time to dive into and pour through books, which is not easy. The only difference between this program and any other is that you have to add a masters degree worth of study time on top of it. Some people take issue with that, and the program makes no apologies for that line of thinking.

So what about step and how comfortable I feel with the knowledge? I would submit that anyone who doesn't start studying for step during the summer of first year will not be competitive, regardless of your class or location. Second, I do not put the onus for learning on clinicians who are paid to read slides. I've yet to meet a med student anywhere who absolutely raves about the quality of their lectures - it's always a mixed bag. Finally, if you cannot find a way to attain a comfotable level of knowledge in your program, you are doing graduate medical education wrong. I rectified any gaps I found by relying on books instead of going to lecture (only PBL and public heatlth lectures are mandatory -- biomedical lectures are video recorded with on demand access for every prior lecture.)

In sum, I would say that this program is for people committed to pursuing a graduate and medical degree at the same time. Not everyone has the constitution for that process. You spend a lot of nights and weekends up late just making it work, and that is more rewarding than you can possibly imagine.
 
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I am another first year MD/MPH student at Miami who wanted to share my perspective. While I can only share my personal reflections on the program, my general sense is that most students in our cohort are happy with the program so far. There is good morale and a warm camaraderie among students that is very special. I personally love PBL and find that it helps me apply what I'm learning in class to patient cases, and that I actually remember information that I learned in PBL longer and better. The process of "meeting" a patient, hearing about their symptoms, and discussing the case with your classmates is very close to what I experienced when working in a clinical setting for several years before coming to medical school. I have noticed that some of the students who dislike PBL came to medical school straight from college, where they are used to being "fed" the information they have to memorize and not having to figure it out for themselves. Many others who worked in clinical settings before medical school appreciate PBL because being a doctor requires more than just memorizing facts -- you must apply them to diagnose patients whose conditions may not be clear-cut, and you must work with your colleagues to diagnose and treat each patient.

Our schedule is long some days, while other days we only have a few hours of class. I have many friends at other medical schools, and overall I don't feel that we have more class time than they do. Of course, our public health degree will require some additional class time, as we are in a master's program in addition to medical school. As others have said, it's important for applicants to make sure they are a good fit for whatever program they choose -- some students prefer to sit in lecture all day while others prefer to interact with other students and have more hands on experiences. When choosing to attend any medical school, all students must take a "leap of faith" and trust that the medical school will teach the most important material and guide you towards a successful career. However, ultimately it is up to each individual student to study, put in the hard work, seek help when needed, and explore areas of interest to develop a career that he or she will love. I doubt there is a single medical school in this country that has never had a student fail the boards, and I think that looking at board scores when applying to medical school is somewhat silly, since ultimately it is up to you to master the knowledge taught to you and fill in any gaps with textbooks, videos, discussion, etc.

I think the Miami MD/MPH program is a wonderful dual degree program, and I would highly recommend it.
 
Current 2nd year in the MD/MPH program. Here's my two cents: I was offered admission to the MD/MPH program but not the MD program, so it was a pretty easy choice for me. It was either this program or DO school. If I'd had a choice between this and the regular MD program I would've chosen the latter.

Do we have a TON of required classes? Yes, we do. Does it often suck having to show up to them when you'd rather be sleeping or studying or doing research or drinking beer or any number of other fun things? Yes, it does. I'm not a die-hard public health person, unlike many of my colleagues, but I do have interests in the field. I find about 50 percent of what we do and study on the public health side interesting. The other 50 percent absolutely puts me to sleep. But I show up and do the work and contribute in class. For me, it's a small price to pay to be able to earn my MD and eventually take care of patients.

As for the other people above who've absolutely slammed the program, well, that's their opinion - although I strongly suspect that gingeryasian and buffalowing are probably the same person. Not everyone is happy here, but I can say that the majority really are. I also have no doubt that some of my colleagues are going to take the public health training they've acquired here and go on to do really, really meaningful things with their lives and careers. Personally, I just want to match at an outstanding residency program and take care of patients.

We recently found out that our class' step 1 average was a few points above the national mean. Frankly, the only reason it isn't much higher is probably due to the fact that a lot of us want to practice primary care and thus aren't willing/have no incentive to beast out a 265 on step 1. I was stressed out heading into our 6 weeks of prep just like everyone else, and I ended up surpassing my goal of 240. I know of at least 3 other people that scored higher than I did. So to say that we don't have time to study for step 1 or that its impossible to succeed in this program is extremely disingenuous and sounds to me like the bitter vitriol of someone who's not doing as well as they would like in med school.

My advice? If you're interested in public health, go for it. There are so many opportunities here it really is crazy, not to mention all the passionate and dedicated faculty in the public health department. If deep down you know you just want to practice medicine and not public health, I'd really caution against coming here. Unless you are passionate about public health, the extra work and hours in class simply aren't worth it. Like most things in life, this program is what you make of it. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
 
***Buffaloing and Gingeryasian please feel free to sign on to the Facebook "MD/MPH Family" group page to identify yourself and explain to our UMMSM family the reasoning for these highly biased and slanderous posts. Don't be a coward and hide behind anonymity. Be a professional and own your comments.

As a graduating fourth year medical student from the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine, I can say with confidence that I have enjoyed my last four years here. These four years have been the best four years of my life. I am not exaggerating when I say that. For residency I got an interview everywhere that I wanted to go. I matched in General Surgery at my second choice. I've had a successful four years here.

First off, Buffaloing and GingeryAsian obviously represent outliers to the student consensus at the UMMSM MD/MPH program. I definitely know who Buffaloing is. This is a person who is extremely negative whenever they can be and they hold an extremely bitter opinion towards the school because they were not selected as AOA when they felt that they should have been. They were also angry about not getting the exact schedule that they wanted for fourth year rotations. As you can tell from their poor judgement, lack of class, and really disgusting attitude- this person continues to demonstrate why they are not AOA material and our Deans made the correct choice in not selecting them to AOA and the world is a better place for it.

Since Buffaloing and GingeryAsian wrote pretty biased (and highly inaccurate) statements on the school, I (as well as others) feel the need to offer a rebuttal to their negativity. In my first two years at UMMSM, at no point did I ever feel stressed or short on time. I felt adequately prepared for step 1 and had ample time to study (6 weeks is more than enough). I got the score I wanted and I matched into a fairly competitive specialty (again, my second choice). The main shortcomings for the inaugural MD/MPH class occurred in Biochemistry and Microbiology- these deficiencies have since been addressed in the curriculum. The PBL model is the way of the future as far as undergraduate medical education is concerned. Our program splits it down the middle- 50% PBL, 50% lecture. I learned not only a ton of factual knowledge from PBL, but I also learned how to actually UNDERSTAND physiology and pathophysiology, how to dissect a case, and how to approach a given clinical scenario. I would take PBL over lecture any day of the week because it is active learning and not passive learning (really awesome for people with ADHD like myself).

Let me emphasize- I did research, I was involved the UM DOCS program, and I had ample time to go out, work out, and be a normal 20-something year old guy. The occasional mandatory classes for the MPH and Physicianship curriculum and the measely 2 hours of PBL from 8 to 10 AM on M-W-F did not hinder that. If they do, then you may have serious problems with responsibility. For Buffaloing and GineryAsian, this is not college. This is a professional school. There are expectations to be organized and manage your time appropriately. Perhaps Buffaloing and GineryAsian should consider a little self-reflection on improving their time management before they make it to residency because sick and dying patients don't want to hear your excuses about your self-proclaimed lack of time. It is unprofessional.

My year 3 clinical rotations in Palm Beach were phenomenal and prepared me well. By the time year four started I felt I was ready to be a full fledged resident. My only disappointment was that I had to do my fourth year of medical school instead of starting residency right then and there. haha. Needless to say, I feel extremely well prepared to shine in residency. I plan to continue on with my MPH through injury prevention outreach (child passenger safety) in the county-wide community.
 
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I'm not at a computer right now, so I can't write a fully detailed reply. However, let me say this:
I'm a graduated fourth year from the UM MD/MPH program. I loved my program and the people in it. I feel like I graduated with an excellent education, both clinically and academically. I felt well-prepared for both Step exams and did pretty well on both. And I, along with many of my classmates, matched into my #1
residency program (for me it's emergency medicine, which is decently if not exorbitantly competitive). What Buffalowing said above, speaking for the "majority" of us, is complete BS. This is evident by the uproar currently occurring amongst my peers. Moreover,
we enjoyed a 4% higher match rate this year than the average 94% (NRMP said: Of the 18,025 U.S. allopathic seniors who submitted program preferences for the 2015 Match, 16,932 matched to first-year positions, achieving an overall match rate of 93.9 percent.) These matches were not in all "easy" specialties or to lesser-known programs, but include specialties such as plastics, neuro surg, tons of gen surgery, ophtho, rad onc, em, obgyn, etc, at some of the top programs in the country.

Don't believe one disillusioned person claiming to speak for our majority.

Graduating 4th year Miami MD/MPH here. DO NOT COME to this program if you value your future career and any chance at a proper medical/public health education. The past 4 years have been frankly a farce, filled with disappointments and hard work that has not paid off. Majority of us deeply regret coming to this “new” experiment of a program.

95% of us matched far blow our expectations, far down our rank lists, majority at small/undesired community institutions. Pretty much all of us now also realize how impoverished our clinical years have been compared to the MD cohort down in Miami/Jackson campus after visiting away electives fourth year, and how inadequate the PBL model has been in amassing long-term medical knowledge. You know there is something up when every Caribbean med student and resident at the regional campus has more knowledge than you and your classmates.

You will not have adequate time to study for your boards, and even though they will state you get 6 “full” weeks, which is average across the country, they fail to mention that you will by that time have amassed weeks worth of gaps in step1 knowledge that you have to teach yourself because of the PBL model, where you rely on your classmates to “teach” you stuff via last minute Wikipedia PPT presentations. You will also be exhausted and burned out from pointless mandatory classes, MPH assignments and scut-work back loaded to second half of MS2, while your MD cohort colleagues are on their second pass of Uworld and pathoma. 4/51 failed the boards our year, majority under-scored, very few got high scores.

You will be treated like a 2nd class citizen being from the “regional” campus by the main teaching hospital in Miami/Jackson attendings and students, and be excluded/forgotten from all the activities regular MD program kids do, which will add to your alienation and lack of support from the university and the student body.

You will struggle for money, as the set budget for double degree program fails to mention the price of countless miles (~60-100$/week) you will be driving some/majority of the 3rd and 4th year just to get to your clinical assignments (regional campus is 50 miles away from Miami in suburban sprawl) and high prices of living in west palm beach area (higher than Miami on average) including 1st/last/security to relocate. You need a good car to be in this program, despite what they tell you on your visit day. I put ~23k miles on my car since the start of 3rd year.

You will get little to none essential clinical/surgical skills and training from a teaching style hospital with willing and eager attendings, residents and fellows. You will spend your third year in a small private hospital in suburban Palm Beach, not learning the essential skills and knowledge vital for your future career, or will be rotating with privately hired private practice fat-cat money grabbing Medicare scamming doctors who will not teach you anything but blatantly tell you they get paid $2800 per student per rotation just to do your evaluation.

You will receive little to no support for pursuing your specialty of choice unless it is public health related low paying servitude specialty, and will be advised, and passive aggressively coaxed into becoming a primary/public health physician, because that is the degree you signed up for. You will not know that the majority of the funding for the joint degree prog comes from HRSA funds to address the primary care doc shortage. (They have a vested interest in keeping the numbers up, thus keeping the program alive and continuing to stuff their coffers with your future loan money).

Do not get swayed by fraction of those who matched into more competitive specialties, they have struggled themselves and would have done much better had they not had the obstacles mentioned above. Do not get swayed by the muzzled golden leash Dean’s pets students who will tell you superlatives about the program when you visit, majority of the class is not allowed to talk to interviewees unless they go through thorough screening. You will not earn merit- based AOA unless you become a yes-man slave to the Deans and promote their MD/MPH agenda by organizing and running silly clubs and playing health fairs that don’t benefit the patients (no follow-up) but self-bolster fake UM-ego in the community.

If the OP still has the chance and choice to go elsewhere, I’d strongly recommend one to do so. This program does not feel real, and I’ve considered dropping out multiple times and realizing how big of a mistake it was year after year, while my MD colleagues in the main campus were thriving and happy. I’ve heard many of my classmates having suicidal thoughts over the past 2 years, with no adequate mental health resources for students at the regional campus to access, and lack of support for mental health issues from the Deans. All this despite the blue skies, sunshine and palm trees the pre-meds think this all is while visiting.

This is not a “get an extra degree” place program if you are naïve to think so, and it appears that the structure of this program is not designed to make you succeed at your best, but possibly to hinder your excellence so you will have no choice but to pick a less competitive specialty and thus fulfill the vision. You will not get a full MD and not a full MPH by coming to this place, but something in between. If you have no other choice to go to med school, then come here, it's still something, but consider yourself warned.
 
So, this thread has been making its rounds across the MD/MPH classes, and I'm sure you'll get a more balanced perspective in the next few days (so keep and eye out!). And, as a second (almost third) year MD/MPH student, I feel like I can provide a different perspective on everything that's been posted above.

1. "Mandatory class" really, there is not that much mandatory class throughout the first two years. You'll have mandatory PBL 8 hours a week, a couple hours for Physicianship, Anatomy every two weeks, and public health for a few hours a week. Honestly, not that much. All the biomedical lectures are recorded so you can watch them at home, or, if you're like me, not watch lecture at all (that's just the way I prefer to learn; it has absolutely no indication of the lecturers, who I really enjoy). There is copious amounts of free time throughout the first two years, even when you factor in MPH coursework. Seriously, medical school and public health do take some time, but remember, you're in medical school getting a concurrent public health degree.

2. PBL- I absolutely love PBL! It is such an amazing way to learn, and honestly, gives you more skills than just "knowing" the learning objectives. For instance, during Step One, I never had to look up lab values, because I knew all the normals through PBL. Likewise, PBL teaches you how to become an independent learner, because it forces you to go find the info need for your presentation (I've never seen anyone use Wikipedia, but lots of Uptodate, AAFP, Epocrates, Medscape, etc), synthesize it, then teach others. All skills needed in medicine, and to become a team player. When you're a resident, or an attending, will you know how to look up something you don't know? Will you know how to present a patient to an attending? You definitely will after having to do it during PBL.

For instance, there was a PBL case on diabetes during first year, and afterwards, when I went to Caridad clinic (an MD/MPH clinic you can volunteer at with the Regional medical deans), AND SAW ALMOST THE EXACT SAME PATIENT. I could understand all the labs, pt history, etc. And that sold me on PBL.

3. Step One- so, the class of 2017 average is a 230, above the national average for sure. It is definitely possible to do very well on Step (and a fair amount of my classmates have) within the MD/MPH program, by studying for Step only during the dedicated six weeks. Furthermore, the match list of our first class is impressive, and should tell you how well our program prepares its classes.


But, I think it's more important to tell you why I chose this MD/MPh program, and would choose it again and again.

1. You not only get two degrees in four years, but you get a plethora of opportunities, from working in DOCS positions (many were held by MD/MPHers this year), to research (seriously, UM is pretty much the only med school in Miami, we get access to a lot more of Miami than GW would in DC), to clinical opportunities (West Palm rotations are universally loved, and, along with PBL, helped our graduating class out score the MD program on Step 2)

2. You'll live in Miami. Much more fun than almost any other city out there.

3. Your patient population is unique. Where else do you get to treat Haitian Americans, African Americans, Hispanic populations (from all over, including Cubans), low socioeconomic status folks at a large county hospital, rich South Beach folks at UM hospital, people who come here from South/Central America, the poison control center for Guantanamo bay, numerous clinics around the area serving diverse patient populations, two student-run clinics, and a ton of health fairs, just to name a few.

4. Honestly, the MD/MPh program in particular is relatively low stress, and my classmates are a large part of that. While everyone pushes themselves, there isn't really a culture of intra-class competition, which can't be said for a lot of medical schools.

I could go on and on, but I just wanted to give another perspective (I don't think there's very many CockDocs in our class) on the issue. Is our program perfect? Nope. No program is perfect. But I couldn't imagine going to any other medical school, and wouldn't want to be part of any other class. Seriously, please don't let the bitterness of a first year (I doubt GingeryAsian really is a second year) make your decision for you. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions on the school, my experience, etc.





It depends on your learning style. As a Miami MD MPH student the program wasn't what I thought it would have been. On paper it sounded great but in truth you waste a lot of time sitting in mandatory class. Most med schools get out at 12 but we get out at 5 p.m almost everyday sometimes-- stack that with neuro and you're basically left with no time to study. Also, out of your 8 hour day, only 2 hours of it is lecturing/learning new stuff. PBL is 2 hours 3 days a week but in Miami you learn NEW material in PBL. Imagine your classmates teaching you your undergrad science courses via wikipedia. No offense to wikipedia, but this is real life medicine and no one's got time for this. So MD MPH is a lot of mandatory hours which I honestly think we could have had more time to study for boards. I have boards coming up in a bit and honestly am not sure how I'm going to do b/c we finished 2 months earlier than the MD track does and we got less time to study overall.

GW's MD program probably is the same as most MD tracks. It's no revolutionary models but when you're trying to save lives and learn medicine, sometimes the traditional and tried and true method is better than radical ideas that are aimed for specific students but not others but now have to nod along bc they can't back out.

Also, bc you're in class from 8-5 sometimes, you lose track as to why you want that MPH anyways. You have barely any time to study for the MD part, so MPH becomes almost a burden to most people in the MD MPH track b/c it just becomes annoying youre stuck in lecture learning about theorems and you're already 5-6 lectures behind. most med schools, people are at most a day or two behind, but here it's common to be behind by a whole week if your day was too long
 
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Hello everyone. I also just graduated from the Miami MD/MPH program.

Without the use of inflammatory language or exaggerations, I'm going to give you my honest perspective. First of all, if I could pick med schools over again, I would NOT pick this program again. My bottom line is: While I am glad to say this program makes you a very sensitive caring doctor, it hinders you from looking good on paper. More on this to follow. First, here are a few major reasons I did NOT like this program, which happen to coincide with the more inflammatory posts above:

A med school should either give you as much time as possible to study on your own using the resources available (lectures non mandatory, transcripts of lectures available, lecture handouts, book references, etc.), or make sure that mandatory lectures are worth your time (teach for step 1, as other programs do). Med school is indeed what you make of it, but you need the time to make it how you want, and I never felt I had that time. This program's use of mandatory time is poor. For example, PBL is indeed comprised of many last minute half-hearted attempts to copy paste uptodate (or worse, Wikipedia) and does not take the place of real lectures. Also, two hours a week are devoted to "group therapy" where students take turns expressing their feelings to each other. Especially second year, when you realize how to maximize every minute of your day to be most efficient, you really begin to get ticked off by inefficient use of your precious time. Then again, if you're the kind of person who needs two hours a week to be an extrovert and share feelings with your peers.. Maybe this program would be good for you.

Second, this program really is designed for those going into primary care specialties and I really do believe that if you want a competitive specialty, you will have a harder time than a MD-only student to get good letters of rec (by being known in the department), do research (since 3rd and 4th year is away from the research campus), and, if you're extroverted, to be motivated by your peers. The last point really struck me when I was in this program. I would bet most of the "happy" people posting about this program are the "P equals MD" students, which typically don't strive for competitive non-primary care specialties, who prioritizing being a sensitive doctor over their boards score and number of research publications. I was in awe at the lack of perfectionism and self-motivation I saw in my peers. If you really do want the competitive boards score, either do a masters of medical science before med school, or study for boards from first year. Oh, and I definitely agree with the heated former post that the main campus residents and attendings looked down on me during my sub-I as being a "regional campus" or "public health" student. That vibe was strong in my perception.

Third, the public health curriculum does indeed take away your attention from the (I'm sorry, but) more important MD curriculum. Second semester second year, at least half the class would sit in public health class and study for step 1, myself included. I don't even remember what the name of the public health course before boards was.

In the end, there were many more smaller bones I had to pick with this program, but the main three are above. Don't pick this program if you're trying to get an extra degree in four years. You're not getting a full MD, neither a full MPH. Do not pick this program if you are OCD about matching at a top residency or competitive specialty. I think that I could have done much better on step 1 and the match had I not wasted time in low-yield mandatory classes and been at the research campus during clinical years. At the end of the day, for residency all that matters is how you look on paper. This program is great at making you a great physician from a "general" (e.g. good at Pap smears, not neuro exam) and humanistic (e.g. understanding the struggles of illegal immigrants in accessing health care) standpoint, but in my opinion, if you have it in you, residency is the time for that. Med school is the time to maximize the reputation and quality of residency program that you match into. It doesn't take all of med school to learn the phrase "how does that make you feel." Do pick this program if you are going into primary care, want to jump the gun at being a sensitive doctor, and (I mean this in a good way) are okay with sacrificing how competitive you are on paper.
 
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As another recent MD/MPH graduate from Miami, I call BS on some of the above "inflammatory" statements. I got my first choice residency (in surgery) and was pleased with the amount of interviews (and programs) I received. Additionally I can personally attest that many of my classmates matched extremely well (Plastics, Harvard programs, etc).

Year 1 and 2 classes (both MD and MPH) you get out of them what you put into them. I showed up for every lecture and felt that they were helpful and was consistently engaged in PBL. If you actually put effort into the presentations they take approx. 1-2 hrs which is a good chance to get a deeper understanding of a topic. Yes there are individuals who just copy and paste Wikipedia but it shows when their classmates ask them questions and they look like idiots in front of the group. The benefits of PBL are not only learning experience but also I became very comfortable creating and giving presentations and in interacting with colleagues in a professional way. Additionally, I for one enjoyed learning community (the "two hour feelings check") as it allows you time to speak in a group of your peers about the "non-medical" aspects of medical school with a senior physician moderating and giving advice. Were there classes that I thought were a waste of time? Perhaps, but I think thats going to be the case wherever you go. At the end of the first two years I felt very prepared to take Step 1 (excepting pharmacology and genetic diseases, both of which were weaknesses of our lecture series which they are correcting).

MPH classes are even more so where you get out of them what you put in to them. And that MPH class before Step 1 "dokblok" was Prevention Public Health... I do think there were some weaknesses of the MPH curriculum, particularly in Epi and Biostats but these have been addressed since we took the classes. We worked with Preventative Medicine Residents during our 4th year (who are getting their MPH from the health department) and our knowledge was not lacking compared with theirs. The MPH program has also been very receptive to student suggestions and has improved every year. One last benefit to Miami's MPH program is the diversity of the city, you can basically do international health work without ever leaving home. I do feel there is some bias to a liberal viewpoint in the teaching but I can say that I never was docked for disagreeing with our lecturers.

3rd and 4th year: The clinical training at the regional campus is excellent IMHO, when compared with my traditional tract MD friends I had at least as many opportunities to learn and sometimes more. Since there are only residents at 2 of the hospital sites on the regional campus you get the opportunity to do first hand quite a bit. In Psych we basically did the full intake at the county mental hospital (the actual psychiatrist spent <5 minutes with the patient), in Family I was seeing my own patients and coming up with treatment plans that the physician would come in for a few minutes (to verify) and sign off on, OB I actually got to deliver babies (including triplets), in Surgery I got to perform half of an appendectomy and learn to do a colonoscopy (among many other things), and in medicine I got a good foundation of inpatient internal med. Additionally I had the opportunity throughout 4th year to rotate at Jackson as much (or as little) as I wanted. The biggest negative of 3rd and 4th year has to be the amount of driving but the cheaper cost of living in Palm Beach should mitigate it somewhat.

Overall I have been extremely pleased with my 4 years, and yes I would do it again. I feel that I received a solid academic and clinical training and got to do it in one of the most diverse environments in the US. Plus it doesn't hurt that its warm. I built excellent relationships with faculty and classmates that I will treasure forever.

If any of you has any further questions about the program feel free to message me. I am more than happy to share my complaints and praise for it.
 
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This is so interesting. When I interviewed there, I got the feeling that the MD/MPH students were constantly bashing on the MD only, and the MD only were doing the same back in a more discreet fashion (talking about how much fun they had, time they had to study, perks they had which the MD/MPH students didn't, etc).
 
This is so interesting. When I interviewed there, I got the feeling that the MD/MPH students were constantly bashing on the MD only, and the MD only were doing the same back in a more discreet fashion (talking about how much fun they had, time they had to study, perks they had which the MD/MPH students didn't, etc).

Bashing is a strong word, Im sorry it came across like that when you interviewed. We each are both (MD and MPH) extremely proud of our programs and perhaps we take that a bit far at times! We actually get along quite well for the most part!
 
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I didn't mean "Bashing" in a bad way-- everyone I met came off as loving the school!
 
Why does the MD/MPH program spend so much time in PBL while the MD program does not? (referring to Miami)
 
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