Michigan CRNA's set up Go Fund Me page to raise money for lawyers!

[DrLight]

Over $12 000 in donations to help pay for a lawyer to sue an Anesthesia company...wow and I thought Go Fund Me was to raise money for real causes....

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[deleted171991]

This is very similar to an AMC takeover, by the way. Do you like it?

Forget that they are CRNAs. Imagine that they were anesthesiologists, and this happened. Just read what they are going through.

This is exactly why an anesthesia services group contract is a monopoly that should not exist.

 

[Psai]

I actually agree with them. I would be super pissed if someone took a bunch of my money and hired a middle manager over me. But then again, their leadership continually promotes the idea that they are equivalent to anesthesiologists and continually use rhetoric and legislation to try to dismiss the difference between the two. They are also flooding the market with undertrained, obnoxious providers who are very well represented in the comment section of every article concerning midlevels. I'm not sure who to support.

 

[nimbus]

There are too many predators who see anesthesiologists and CRNAs as lambs ready for slaughter. The bottom line is that they are the ones taking care of the patients. They shouldn't have to pay homage to a douchebag in a suit, even if he is an anesthesiologist.

 

[BLADEMDA]

For those that support the free market system this is a simple issue: Sign the contract or find work elsewhere. The CRNAs could sign and get a 90 day termination notice in the contract. This would give them time to transition to another job.

While you all may not like this scenario it is legal and I expect the "legal challenge" to no nowhere. If AMCs can take over contracts with "hostile" takeovers then so can anyone else provided he/she has the hospital's backing.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Figure. Recent anesthesiology practice acquisitions.
The pace is picking up. Nearly a dozen acquisitions were completed in just

- See more at: http://www.anesthesiologynews.com/V...015&i_id=1203&a_id=32980#sthash.jEOlIF1Z.dpuf

 

[BLADEMDA]

“Physician practice consolidation has accelerated in 2015 as the rollout of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act continues to create upheaval, increased complexity, and financial pressure in the provision of healthcare services. This environment has led many anesthesia and other hospital-based specialty practices to sell or merge their practices into larger organizations that offer greater management depth, better access to capital, economies of scale, IT and other expertise to support physician practices. We believe this trend will continue and the pace of consolidation will accelerate,” said Mr. Swearingen.
Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/28/ny-edgemont-capital-idUSnBw285784a+100+BSW20150928#UUIb7iiQ6F4ABV4d.99

 

[BLADEMDA]

November 19, 2015 10:11 AM Eastern Standard Time
NEW YORK & NASHVILLE, Tenn.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Edgemont Capital Partners, LP (“Edgemont”), a leading independent investment banking firm providing M&A advisory services to healthcare companies, today announced that it acted as exclusive financial advisor to Anesthesia Services Associates, PLLC (“ASA”) in its sale to PhyMed Management, LLC. Terms of the transaction were not disclosed.

“Independent, high quality physician practices of scale are seeking the highest level of quality and experience in the financial advisors they hire”

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ASA provides anesthesia department management and staffing for TriStar Hendersonville Medical Center, an HCA hospital and several ambulatory surgery centers. The transaction closed on November 16, 2015. Jeff Swearingen, managing director, co-founder of Edgemont, and head of the firm’s Physician Services Group, led the Edgemont engagement team, along with Luke Mitchell and Reid Petersen. Brent Hill of Waller Lansden Dortch & Davis, LLP acted as legal counsel to ASA in the transaction.

The sale of ASA is Edgemont's seventh closed transaction on behalf of hospital-based physician groups and management companies and fifth in anesthesia. Edgemont has now served as exclusive advisor to anesthesia practices and management companies that account for over 400,000 annual cases. Edgemont previously represented Milford Anesthesia Associates in its sale to Envision Healthcare Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: EVHC); South Oakland Anesthesia Associates in its sale to MEDNAX, Inc. (NYSE: MD); Wolverine Anesthesia Consultants in its sale to TeamHealth Holdings Inc. (NYSE: TMH), and New Jersey Anesthesia Associates in its sale to MEDNAX, Inc. (NYSE: MD). Edgemont also advised Premier Physician Services, Inc. in its sale to TeamHealth Holdings Inc. (NYSE: TMH), and Practice Support Resources, LLC in its sale to Intermedix Corporation.

“Independent, high quality physician practices of scale are seeking the highest level of quality and experience in the financial advisors they hire,” said Mr. Swearingen. “Edgemont is unsurpassed in its success in advising physician practices.”

 

[BLADEMDA]

There are too many predators who see anesthesiologists and CRNAs as lambs ready for slaughter. The bottom line is that they are the ones taking care of the patients. They shouldn't have to pay homage to a douchebag in a suit, even if he is an anesthesiologist.

The hospital CEO and its management control who provides the anesthesia services so if they give the contract to a "douchebag in a suit" everyone must pay "homage" to that person/company/AMC.

If you go into anesthesia (except for perhaps Pain) those are the rules of the game. Don't like it? Choose a different specialty.

 

[nimbus]

The hospital CEO and its management control who provides the anesthesia services so if they give the contract to a "douchebag in a suit" everyone must pay "homage" to that person/company/AMC.

If you go into anesthesia (except for perhaps Pain) those are the rules of the game. Don't like it? Choose a different specialty.

Unfortunately you are probably correct. Although latest I heard is that AMCs are currently only covering 10-15% of the market.

 

[Consigliere]

Just donated $1000.

 

[deleted171991]

Unfortunately you are probably correct. Although latest I heard is that AMCs are currently only covering 10-15% of the market.

85% more to conquer. We are Borg, you will be assimilated!

 

[Consigliere]

I'm impressed by how much money they've raised in such a short period of time. If this were a group of anesthesiologists doing the same thing? FUHGEDABOUTIT! Seems like only 6 out of the 74 are smart; the other 68 are about to become unemployed.

 

[Psai]

Whoa someone actually did donate 1000

 

[Consigliere]

Whoa someone actually did donate 1000

See post #11

 

[Psai]

See post #11

I saw it but the donation was 18 hours ago

 

[Man o War]

Hmmmm...does anyone else hear the smallest violin in the world playing while reading the details of their "case"? Oh, you want to be equal to anesthesiologists? Welcome to your first lesson- this happens to us all the time. Right, wrong, or otherwise, this is the game. Cry me a river.

 

[cchoukal]

Hmmmm...does anyone else hear the smallest violin in the world playing while reading the details of their "case"? Oh, you want to be equal to anesthesiologists? Welcome to your first lesson- this happens to us all the time. Right, wrong, or otherwise, this is the game. Cry me a river.

Well, or they've figured out a way to combat it. Maybe this is equivalent to all those "incident reports" nurses like to file when they think they're being disrespected by a resident. Of course incident reports look silly, but they do get attention.

 

[pgg]

How the hell can 68 (sixty-eight!!!) CRNAs not come up with $18,000 (their goal) all by themselves?!?

For **** sake, that's less than $300 each, and they have to beg for charity handouts on gofundme?

 

[nimbus]

How the hell can 68 (sixty-eight!!!) CRNAs not come up with $18,000 (their goal) all by themselves?!?

For **** sake, that's less than $300 each, and they have to beg for charity handouts on gofundme?

The gofundme is as much for PR as it is for cash.

 

[pgg]

The gofundme is as much for PR as it is for cash.

I guess.

Begging for money is an odd way to "raise awareness". It makes me think these guys are idiots living hand to mouth despite high salaries. That's probably not the image they want to broadcast, but it's the one I'm receiving.

Real grown up adult professionals write checks to hire lawyers to press their grievances in court. This circus just strikes me as kids' table histrionics.

 

[nimbus]

I guess.

Begging for money is an odd way to "raise awareness". It makes me think these guys are idiots living hand to mouth despite high salaries. That's probably not the image they want to broadcast, but it's the one I'm receiving.

Real grown up adult professionals write checks to hire lawyers to press their grievances in court. This circus just strikes me as kids' table histrionics.

True. I've never seen a gofundme launched by a grown-ass man or woman.

 

[IlDestriero]

I didn't donate $1000.

 

[pgg]

AAs can work in Michigan, right?

Maybe this Dr Lago character will set up a GoFundMe campaign to help offset the moving costs to get some AAs hired and relocated to the area. I'd throw $20 at that, just for the lulz.

 

[nycitygas]

Is this a CRNA only group?

 

[nycitygas]

Edit

 

[Man o War]

From what I've read, the CRNAs were hospital employees and now will be employed by the group. No way this Dr Lago got this contract without a Plan B in the event the CRNAs all walk. Things must've been getting toxic for the administration to make this move. Reading some of the CRNA comments on the go fund me page are hilarious. They actually believe they aren't replaceable.

 

[nycitygas]

edit

 

[pgg]

From what I've read, the CRNAs were hospital employees and now will be employed by the group. No way this Dr Lago got this contract without a Plan B in the event the CRNAs all walk. Things must've been getting toxic for the administration to make this move. Reading some of the CRNA comments on the go fund me page are hilarious. They actually believe they aren't replaceable.

68 bodies is a tall order to replace outright, in a matter of weeks, even if you're willing to pay a locums ransom.

Seems more likely there's a game of chicken being played.

 

[criticalelement]

The hospital was tired of paying those crazy salaries for sitting in a room baby sitting a patient. So they shifted the responsibility. And this Dr lago, is playing hard ball. Gravy train is over..

 

[pjl]

How the hell can 68 (sixty-eight!!!) CRNAs not come up with $18,000 (their goal) all by themselves?!?

For **** sake, that's less than $300 each, and they have to beg for charity handouts on gofundme?

Im guessing they gave it all to the AANA for lobbying.

 

[deleted171991]

Interestingly, they have been increasing their donations target for the last 24 hours. Now it's 25k.

If a group of anesthesiologists had been in the same situation, I doubt we would have raised 10% of the amount in a day.

 

[Man o War]

I guess my question is....what is their basis for obtaining a lawyer and suing? I don't see anywhere in their case description that the hospital breached their contracts. Maybe they've been so protected as nurses that they are appalled by business as usual which we have become accustomed to. Being butt hurt over a pay reduction isn't a reason to sue. And, in the current health care climate and the way CRNA mills are churning out new grads they'd better get used to this.

 

[deleted171991]

I guess my question is....what is their basis for obtaining a lawyer and suing? I don't see anywhere in their case description that the hospital breached their contracts. Maybe they've been so protected as nurses that they are appalled by business as usual which we have become accustomed to. Being butt hurt over a pay reduction isn't a reason to sue. And, in the current health care climate and the way CRNA mills are churning out new grads they'd better get used to this.

They are not suing.

We are paying a labor lawyer to negotiate a contract with PSJ anesthesia a single person owned company.

 

[Man o War]

They are not suing.

Oh ok, got it. I misunderstood.

 

[Direct Laryngoscopy]

It's called business. If you can't survive or adjust, you die.

 

[PainDrain]

Would this be a bad time to write Dr Lago an email and ask if he is looking for an anesthesiologist who loves the Midwest?

 

[Man o War]

Would this be a bad time to write Dr Lago an email and ask if he is looking for an anesthesiologist who loves the Midwest?

Do it! Providence in Novi is a nice facility. The CRNAs may be a bit, um, hostile when you arrive....

 

[nimbus]

Would this be a bad time to write Dr Lago an email and ask if he is looking for an anesthesiologist who loves the Midwest?

You're probably not part of his business model.

 

[Psai]

Would this be a bad time to write Dr Lago an email and ask if he is looking for an anesthesiologist who loves the Midwest?

He's looking to profit off of the work of others. It doesn't seem like a medical direction kind of thing. He's a part of the problem, not the solution.

 

[jwk]

The gofundme is as much for PR as it is for cash.

You may think it's PR but CRNA's around the country are contributing. They're up to $26k in 3 days now as they keep adjusting their "goal" upwards.

 

[GlowInTheDark]

I'll start a gofundme to support them, and since there is no accountability once I cash out I'll just take the money and pay my tuition for next year.

 

[Man o War]

They're going to pay some lawyer thousands and he too will get the Heisman from Dr Lago. Then what? I wonder what their end game is here if the contract stands as is.

 

[Stank811]

If all 68 of them stand in unity and they have an FU account to support the stand that is their end game and they will win. Good luck bringing in 68 providers somewhere in the midwest who want to stay there long term. It will cost the hospital system and the anesthesia group way more than it is worth in the long run and it will fail. My prediction is that if these CRNAs have the ability to stay united it will result in a resolution which will give them a more favorable contract. Similar scenarios have played out many times in the past.

 

[Man o War]

If all 68 of them stand in unity and they have an FU account to support the stand that is their end game and they will win. Good luck bringing in 68 providers somewhere in the midwest who want to stay there long term. It will cost the hospital system and the anesthesia group way more than it is worth in the long run and it will fail. My prediction is that if these CRNAs have the ability to stay united it will result in a resolution which will give them a more favorable contract. Similar scenarios have played out many times in the past.

I don't know....AMCs do this quite a bit with larger groups and they seem to get what they want in the end. Obviously the CRNAs are hoping he blinks first and they get their way. This happened in another good sized Midwestern town I used to live in and ultimately the AAs and CRNAs caved right before the deadline they were given. A few held out, but the vast majority did not. Maybe the go fund me will also act as their FU accounts.

 

[jwk]

I don't know....AMCs do this quite a bit with larger groups and they seem to get what they want in the end. Obviously the CRNAs are hoping he blinks first and they get their way. This happened in another good sized Midwestern town I used to live in and ultimately the AAs and CRNAs caved right before the deadline they were given. A few held out, but the vast majority did not. Maybe the go fund me will also act as their FU accounts.

68 is a big number to replace all at once. Perhaps if this was a large AMC it might be at least a little easier - but a single doc holding the contract in a less than desirable area like Detroit? I think that would be awful tough. And although many (including the CRNAs) have framed this as a CRNA vs MD issue, it's really just a straight business deal with less than favorable terms for one side. It's not really different than a big AMC coming into any facility with a take-it-or-leave-it attitude. Happens every day. It will be interesting to see who blinks first - if the 68 hold firm, they might have a chance. But the thought of relocating, uprooting the family, etc., is a powerful consideration as well.

 

[PainDrain]

This Lago guy must have something up his sleeve. He must know the stakes and have the backing of the hospital administration. There is no way you can go into this without any leverage.

 

[Wiscoblue]

Detroit has some really nice suburbs.

 

[Man o War]

Update from the go fund me page.....

Legal update ahead!
What a crazy Thanksgiving (Go #Lions)! I hope everyone had a better holiday than the #Michigan68. Now that we have had a moment to catch our breath I figured I would take a few minutes to update you on what has been happening – especially in light of the overwhelming and generous support you have all provided! First, over the past couple of days we have continually raised the goal for the campaign. We did this in response to the influx of threatened litigation. This has changed the character of our campaign from a contract negotiation to an attack on the #michigan68 and your profession. Despite our rising legal costs (which keep ticking up and up and up), I have reset the goal to the original amount to show that ultimately the #Michigan68’s cause is just and to reinforce that this campaign was started simply as a means to get the word out on injustice. The real story here, is how you as a community banded together and responded to defend against an attack on your profession in a way that was unfathomable to us when we started. We all know that with the eyes of the Anesthesia community upon us, we must stand strong. We are in awe. Thank you! #CRNAStrong, #SRNAStrong.

As an example of the threatened litigation, on December 1st , I as the name on the gofundme campaign, received a letter from PSJ’s attorney requesting I remove certain language from the campaign claiming they were untrue and that they amounted to defamation per se. The letter requested I remove the statements by December 1, or risk being sued for defamation and paying hefty fines. PSJ claims that statements regarding a reduction in compensation are false and that the contract offered was for the same compensation. In light of this my attorney, the #Michigan68, and I sat down and went through the numbers again.


We found that without a doubt, PSJ’s claim of equal compensation is bogus. PSJ is claiming they have offered a position at the same compensatory rate as what the #Michigan68 are currently receiving. This is simply not true.
While it is true PSJ is offering the same base wage, they have drastically cut the overtime wage, removed the requirement to pay overtime after 40 hours in a week – making harder to even earn the reduced overtime wage, cut call pay, stripped shift differentials, stripped all education days, reduced CME reimbursements, etc. These are all contrary to local CRNA employment customs and norms – and would make PSJ the lowest paying CRNA employer in the area by far. Although how much any individual CRNA would lose in compensation varies depending on how much she/he works, the loss is substantial any way you cut it. I have been told the range of the compensation loss varies between 23% and 39%. (But NOTE: self-scheduling was something the #Michigan68 could control when we did our own scheduling with the hospital; but under PSJ, the sole-owner or his designated representative controls scheduling without regard to individual schedule requests). The crux of the disagreement is the meaning of word compensation. PSJ limits the term to just your base hourly wage, the #Michigan68 use the more common definition of compensation to include all wages and payments for a position (Compensation – Remuneration and other benefits received in return for services rendered – Black’s Law Dictionary)


The other points were more “he said/she said” and due to the possibility of litigation I think they are best left to the lawyers until they are resolved. Again, thank you everyone for your dedication to the CRNA profession and for helping us stand up for what is right and just.

 

[Man o War]

So it sounds to me like the "michigan 68" were raking in time and a half because of their ability to "self schedule". I'd love to know what that hospital was paying in overtime to these folks. No wonder this guy waltzed in and poached the contract. When my previous group ran into declining reimbursements and no willingness from the hospital to subsidize, all the things on their list were exactly what we cut to make up the difference. The CRNAs griped, but nobody left because this is and was happening everywhere.