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military health professions scholarship

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Osteopathic [ DO ]' started by kundun, Feb 14, 1999.

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  1. kundun

    kundun Senior Member

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    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    Is there anyone out there thinking about or currently going to school with the aid of this type of scholarship? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.
  2. DO DUDE

    DO DUDE Senior Member

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    I am currently in the process of applying for both the Army and Navy scholarships, but I haven't started school yet.
  3. DO 2 be

    DO 2 be Member

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    Check out the Military Medical Student Association at USUHS. Plenty of good information with links to all three branches. http://www.usuhs.miL/mmsa/
  4. DO 2 be

    DO 2 be Member

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    Hey kundun,
    Any luck with the military? Just curious.

  5. drno

    drno Junior Member

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    It may just be better to borrow the money and pay it back. I have been in the military for 5 years now and have 3 more to go. The military is not what I have been told it used to be. The medical corps is not as friendly to its own as it should be. The military has a mission and often a few people get stepped on to make it happen. I am planning to get out the second that my commitment is up for the HPSP. (I also did ROTC) The military has also had a past of some DO's not being treated as fairly as the MD's. DO's were not welcome until after Vietnam and there were still periods of not so fair treatment. I was recently in a specialty residency for 1 yr and had to leave due to some perceived unfairness. I hate to be negative but I am still a GP and my career is on hold until I get out and am a civilian once again.
  6. Dena

    Dena Junior Member

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    drno:
    I would be very interested in hearing more about your experience - such as:
    Have you been deployed, or do you expect to be? Are you assigned to a unit that may deploy? If you have a family, does your schedule interfere with that? Do you have any choice in assignments, or is it wherever you are sent? Was your residency with the military, and how would you rate it? I am trying to decide if it is the best route, and seem to go back and forth. Any information would be helpful.
    Thank you, Dena
  7. DO DUDE

    DO DUDE Senior Member

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    I was in the Army as an active duty officer for almost 6 years. I am curious why you say D.O.s may not be treated fairly since both the surgeon generals of the Army and Coast Guard are D.O.s. Did you not want a career in the military anyway? What was the nature of the perceived unfairness in your residency?

    Thanks.
  8. drno

    drno Junior Member

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    I felt that I was not fairly treated. It took me a year to find out that 2 DOs ahead of me had also gone through similar experiences. A 4th year told me that he always felt his evaluations were marked down compared to his fellow MDs. I can tell you that this guy was just as good or better than his colleagues. He had the extra burden of finger pointing the whole way through. He had also gone to the Inspector General and even had a civilian attorney. I wrote a letter to the Surgeon General of the Army and an inquiry was ordered pertaining to my situation. The Inspector General has been investigating and I won't tell anymore until it is closed by the Surgeon General. We have had some high ranking black men in the military but there are still some episodes of racism against black men, etc. in the military. I would not stir up a problem such as this if it were not present. I am not against the military. Initially when I came in I thought it was a great situation for DOs. I did a 1 yr AOA internship in Florida. I can speak for both training environments, and during my internship I was treated fairly. A high ranking staff in my residency I was told by some of my fellow MD residents had said DOs were not as well trained as MDs. There are more instances such as this but I cannot speak at this time. Since I owe 3 more years I am stuck in the fish bowl. I will definitely report the outcome once the Surgeon General makes his report.
  9. drno

    drno Junior Member

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    I must also add that I came in as a Flight Surgeon and served stateside. I also went to Germany for 2 years prior to entering the residency that I definitely worked hard for.
    My current job involves sick call and also family care clinic. I am stateside in a good location. I have spoken out because I see good people being broken and figured I no longer had a career worth saving so I would make some good come out of it. It won't break the military but will wake it up to the truth.
  10. DO DUDE

    DO DUDE Senior Member

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    drno,

    Thanks for your candid reply. It seems as if you have taken all the right steps to draw attention to the problem. I'm glad you're stepping up to the plate with your concerns. There are often times when people are unwilling to "blow the whistle," but having the courage to speak up will only benefit those that follow you. How widespread do you feel this problem is? Have you talked to other DOs in other residencies about what they've experienced? What about the Navy or Air Force?

    I didn't mean to imply in my prior post that just because the surgeon general is a DO that some incidences of prejudice wouldn't occur, but to point out that you should have an advocate if indeed a problem is found to exist. I don't know the full details of his career, but I'm sure he must have begun in the Army around the time when these sort of things were commonplace and should have empathy for your concerns. If anyone has the capability to make rapid corrections in the conduct of his subordinates I would think he does. The fact that he attained the position he did should at least demonstrate that success as a DO in the military is definitely not impossible.

    Please let us know the outcome. I hope that if you truly want to remain in the military that you don't let this discourage you.


  11. drno

    drno Junior Member

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    DO DUDE,
    You are right about the advocate in the Surgeon General. He was in the military when DOs were really looked at suspiciously. If anything, I can tell that he, the IG, and even a few MDs in the residency I left are sympathetic and truly feel something is there. We know the one individual where this "poison" probably began. The funny outcome that I have already heard about, that may or may not be related, is that when the current hospital commander leaves (a one star general position)the following CO is a DO. That one MD may definitely dislike the job then.
  12. DO DUDE

    DO DUDE Senior Member

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    drno,

    Interesting, if not related, twist of events. Hopefully this is just the first in a chain of events that will help reverse the course of the problem. It will be intriguing to see what occurs as a result. Please keep us posted...I have personal interest.
  13. DocFlight

    DocFlight New Member

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    Please keep in mind that everyone has a unique experience whether it is in the Military or not. Women, minorities, and yes, even DO's, will experience varying degrees of ignorance in the Armed Forces. I have been on Active Duty in the U.S. Navy for 5 years, and I have experienced nothing more than curiosity and intrigue. I am not, however, naive enough to think that discriminatory acts don't take place in the Military. I cannot name a hospital where atleast one DO was on staff in nearly every department. I have found that some of the specialties are harder to get in to because they want the "Harvard name" and the "Harvard numbers" so their DME can use it as a recruiting tool. "Our residents scored...blah, blah, and we have two Ivy league trained, blah, blah..." Understand what I mean? If you decide to take an HPSP scholarship in any branch of the servive realize that the Military you join as a first year may be different than the Military you will serve in 4-5 years later. If you are flexible and plan well you can do GREAT things. It is a wonderful feeling to know you owe no money in loans (college or med school), have both cars paid off, active investments, and have the residency of your choice. Military training is good for the most part, I think certain programs are weaker than others depending on hospital size, location, and patient volume. You will find that in the "civilian" world as well. If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to give you the Navy and Marine Corps perspective.
  14. 8404

    8404 Senior Member

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    DocFlight,
    Thanks for the insight. Im a former Navy hospital corpsman and have just been accepted to TUCOM for the fall class. I served seven years in just about every capacity including overseas, with the Marines, and in stateside hospitals. Im in the process of applying for a Navy HPSP and sure could use your insight into the Navy medical corps now and in 2003. I found all I need to know about pay and residency info on the web, but some specifics were lacking. I hear the GMO program is all but dead and when I graduate in 2003 most likely I will go right to a USN residency and then a follow on asignment at hospital or clinic? What about an operational tour during my obligation? Can you tell me the difference between the Navy residency and the civilian (such as hours, workload, interesting cases), and how difficult do you think it is to get the residency of your choice? Do I get the ISP/MSP bonuses right out of residency, thus increasing my paycheck drastically? Your input would tremendously help me make the right decision. Thanks!
  15. 8404

    8404 Senior Member

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    DocFlight,
    Thanks for the insight. Im a former Navy hospital corpsman and have just been accepted to TUCOM for the fall class. I served seven years in just about every capacity including overseas, with the Marines, and in stateside hospitals. Im in the process of applying for a Navy HPSP and sure could use your insight into the Navy medical corps now and in 2003. I found all I need to know about pay and residency info on the web, but some specifics were lacking. I hear the GMO program is all but dead and when I graduate in 2003 most likely I will go right to a USN residency and then a follow on asignment at hospital or clinic? What about an operational tour during my obligation? Can you tell me the difference between the Navy residency and the civilian (such as hours, workload, interesting cases), and how difficult do you think it is to get the residency of your choice? Do I get the ISP/MSP bonuses right out of residency, thus increasing my paycheck drastically? Your input would tremendously help me make the right decision. Thanks!
  16. wiggy

    wiggy Member

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    To drno:

    I have several questions:

    1) Is it true that the military is going to do away with GP's in the near future?

    2) What are the professional boundaries to which a GP can practice?

    3) Is time spent as a GP counted towards fulfilling service obligations/retirement?
  17. wiggy

    wiggy Member

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    To drno:

    I have several questions:

    1) Is it true that the military is going to do away with GMO's in the near future?

    2) What are the professional boundaries to which a GMO can practice?

    3) Is time spent as a GMO counted towards fulfilling service obligations/retirement?

    [This message has been edited by wiggy (edited 03-08-99).]
  18. RC

    RC Member

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    I've been driving by the air force health professions building in my town and was wondering about this branch's scholarship program for med. school. does anyone have any inside info? good and bad views of this program. difficulty in receiving a scholarship? the probability of actually doing a residency of your choice, cuz i've heard horror stories about not being able to choose your specialty in the residency years. do you have to go through boot camp? i'm completely ignorant, so educate me to see if i even want to spend my time in their office. thanks, rene
  19. DocFlight

    DocFlight New Member

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    8404,
    Congratulations on your acceptance to TUCOM. I hope you find your experience well worth the effort. The push right now is to get all operational tour billets filled with residency trained physicians. When this will take place is a mystery to us all. There are people in the training pipeline right now who will graduate over the next few years and go directly to operational billets. I would anticipate that you will be allowed to finish residency prior to going to the fleet. This can be accomplished in two ways....as a FTOS (full-time out service) meaning after med school you go directly to a residency (civilian) or you could be matched with a military residency. Both of which are very viable options. Your decision as to residency type and civilian vs military will be based heavily on personal situation and goals. By this I mean do you want to do ENT? How about ER? Where do you want to live and are you married? I would say on the whole the Military subspecialties are just as busy as any other, but may not see the diversity and extent of disease states that you may find in a county hospital/inner city type setting. In order for the Military to strengthen their programs they will farm you out to different university settings across the country. For example, the Opthalmology program at San Diego sends it's second year residents to Stanford for the basic science portion of training. The ER program sends it's residents to Mercy Hospital in San Diego for trauma, Children's Hosp for Peds, etc... so the training is good to say the least. I dont think the directors of GME have thought about the money problems they will incur by requiring all fleet medical officers to be residency trained. If you are board certified you will receive MSP/ISP. But as it stands now most of the fleet medical force is not residency trained and they still have financial problems. Imagine if everybody is board certified and they have to pay everyone six figures? Most hospital staff assigned to battle platforms are board certified, I am talking guys/girls in my position who are GMO's and Flight Surgeon's. If you want to do operational stuff you have plenty of options...I would recommend Flight Surgery above most because of the ability to deploy ALOT if you so desire. GMO's can deploy, but are mostly stuck at a base clinic (there will be exceptions to this however). Some of my counterparts didn't deploy at all last year because they were assigned to training squadrons. I was deployed 147 days last year to various places around the world (Italy, The Azores, Turkey, Maine, California desert, Arizona...). Make SURE you read your contract carefully as I think they may have made changes to the HPSP program to accomodate the upcoming changes in the Medical Corps. I recommend getting a copy and taking it home to read before signing it. Just to make sure you don't sign something you don't want to. I have been very satisfied with my experience. I was flexible and didn't expect to be treated with kid gloves so that when I wasn't treated great for whatever reason I could roll with the punches. Let me know more about your future plans and I will be able to answer more specific questions. GOOD LUCK!
  20. drno

    drno Junior Member

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    Wiggy,

    I have heard that the Army is going to do away with the GMO position. I don't know when it would be complete. I personally feel that all physicians taking care of troops should be board certified. I was out in Germany 200 miles from the nearest American military hospital and it was at times scary. We relied heavily on the local German physicians for consults. I would have felt more comfortable with the confidence of a residency trained doc for myself. I am still a GMO and am leaning strongly toward family practice because DO's make good ones I think. I have had plenty of clinical experience since I graduated in 92. As a GMO in the Army at least, you are not as prestigious and fellow providers sort of look down on you. You are "just a GMO". I am a fighter now and will back down anyone who gets arrogant with me. You don't want to come into the military as a GMO. Get trained prior to entering the military.














  21. 8404

    8404 Senior Member

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    Thanks again DocFlight!
    Your insight in most valuable to me. My major concern right now is by 2003 all the popular residencies will be snatched up by the returning influx of GMO's from the fleet (they did thier time and they desere every bit of recognition from the selection boards) and I may have to contend with a training slot that is not a top choice. But, considering I am into Family Medicine I dont think there will be to much of a problem. Also, do you plan to stay on after your obligation is completed or return to the civ world?
  22. DocFlight

    DocFlight New Member

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    8404,
    Where have you been accepted? Don't be surprised if you change your mind about what type of residency you want to do. Family Medicine is a great choice and in my experience you will be competitive at just about any program you choose to apply to. It is amazing what residencies are offering these days! Laptops, Palm Pilots, Cell Phone programs for beeper call, moonlighting opportunities in-house... to name a few. You may find that if indeed there is a big push for available military spots in 2003 that you may have to think about doing civilian training prior to returning to the Military. Military internships do not count as scholarship payback, but do count as time in service for pay purposes. I will be leaving the service in June 2000 and returning to my home state to do a Diagnostic Radiology residency. I will be staying in the reserves and maintaining my flight status. Proud to serve. What is your situation?
  23. av8r

    av8r Junior Member

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    DocFlight,

    I have applied for the Naval health proffesions scholarship and hope to hear something in early April. As the name implies, I am already a pilot, and hope to spend part of my naval career as a flight surgeon. I currently have a commercial rating, and a multi-engine rating. Will that make any differnce to the military in letting me fly? Do flight surgeons get to fly high performance aircraft solo? My recruiter hasn't been able to answer many of these questions. Thanks for your reply, and any other advice you can offer. You can email me if you'd rather not answer on the thread.

    ------------------

  24. Geoff Gruenewalt

    Geoff Gruenewalt Junior Member

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    I have a question about the HPSP. Is there an age beyond which the chances of receiving this drop off? I'm looking at applying when I'm no younger than 33.
  25. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member

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    I am 32 and have applied for the Army scholarship. I was told my age would not affect my chances.

    Renee
  26. Geoff Gruenewalt

    Geoff Gruenewalt Junior Member

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    Thanks Renee. I forgot to ask my other question. It seems like the military only cares whether a person has been accepted to medical school, not about their previous grade point average. Am I mistaken? Is there a gpa cutoff? Thanks again, I'm not feeling so old now!
  27. DO DUDE

    DO DUDE Senior Member

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    I think the main thing is the acceptance. I was asked minimal questions about my transcript in my interviews and a few of my grades were not great. I think they believe your potential success as a student has already been weighed by the admissions committees.
  28. 8404

    8404 Senior Member

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    Agreed. I was told by the Navy the MCAT cutoff was around 24.
  29. GRIFF

    GRIFF New Member

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    Geoff
    I am an Army Healthcare Recruiter. The age cutoff is 36yo.
  30. curtis

    curtis Member

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    geoff,

    As long as you haven't reached the age of 36 by the time the board looks at your packet you will be ok. As far as the GPA it does have a bearing somewhat at your chances of getting the scholarship. Generally if your GPA is 3.0 or higher you will be somewhat competitive. If you have a GPA higher than 3.0 you would be that much more competitive. I hope this helps you out.

  31. Geoff Gruenewalt

    Geoff Gruenewalt Junior Member

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    Thanks for the information. It's great to learn that this is still doable.
  32. Dena

    Dena Junior Member

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    What are the chances of receiving a scholarship if one applies during their first year of medical school (as opposed to applying before beginning)? I have heard that there are less scholarships available, are there less applicants as well?

    Thanks for any information.

    P.S. Is it still considered late to be applying now? Does it depend on tuition cost?

    [This message has been edited by Dena (edited 03-16-99).]
  33. curtis

    curtis Member

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    Dena,

    Yes. You can apply for a scholarship if you are already in med school. If you get selected and there are no more for your year group you will go on an order-of-merit list. That means you will get the next lower one. Example: apply for a three and you are put on OML you will be picked up for a two-year the next fiscal year unless they find monet dor the three year. It does happen sometimes. One of the students I did at UNECOM was OML'ed for a two-year and they found the money. With the Army it doesn't matter how much the tuitin is. I think the Air Force may sometimes do it by school. I am not sure about the Navy.
  34. RC

    RC Member

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    I just called the airforce health professions office in my town to get some info. on the med school scholarship. the recruiter told me that i should have applied for the scholarship a year ago before i start school cuz this is the first year they will not have the three yr scholarship, only four year scholarships are offered now. so if you haven't applied yet, you're too late for the 1999 -2003 school yrs. but on the bright side, he told me that they have a program that will pay you $30k each yr of your residency in exchange for a year of service/ yr of payment. basically it's the same deal except that you're not guaranteed a military residency and you're not an officer. good luck, rene
  35. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member

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    RC

    Be sure to call other branches of the service. I am applying for an Army scholarship, and at this point there are quite a few 4 year scholarships left.

    Renee
  36. Duke

    Duke Member

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    The Navy still is offering their program as well. You better hurry though, it takes some time to get your package ready to send to DC. At least that's where the recruiter said it was supposed to go. The physical has to be set up so start NOW..
    Good luck,
    Duke
    P.S. The last time I checked there's still about a third of the scholarships left.
  37. Liljoe2002

    Liljoe2002 Member

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    To all Navy HPSP applicants:

    Hi, if anyone has any questions on the application process as well as the "low-down" of what the navy program entails, please feel free to email me.

    ENS Becker
  38. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member

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    Just thought I would let you guys know that I was selected to receive the Army scholarship. As a 32 year old mother of three, not too bad, huh? I have not given them my decision yet. Does anyone have any input for me -- positive or negative? I appreciate any advice. I only have 9 more days to make my decision.

    Renee
  39. DO DUDE

    DO DUDE Senior Member

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    Renee WB,

    I was selected for the Army scholarship as well. I was in the Army for 6 years on active duty but my position was totally unrelated to healthcare so I can't offer that perspective. Any other questions you might ask regarding the Army I can probably field. Off the top of my head, I'd say just be sure your family is willing to deal with the moving from place to place and periods of separation that will occur. You will have to be flexible, that's for sure.

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