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Military Rotations/Bases

Discussion in 'Military Medicine' started by Homunculus, 01.11.05.

  1. metabolite

    metabolite

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    I did rotations at Wright-Patt and Travis. I looked into San Antonio and Keesler, but did not do rotations there. All of the programs are integrated with major hospitals outside of the base:

    Wright-Patt: Wright State University Program
    Travis: UC Davis
    Wilford Hall: BAMC
    Keesler: University of Mississippi

    I LOVE Wright-Patt; was not my first choice only because of the location. When I was there it was very busy, and we had awesome attendings there who taught and allowed residents to do a lot, even colon resections. By the way, residents were totally awesome too. Miami Valley is a busy hospital but unfortunately, when I was there, it was unusually slow. I had to request to switch to a night call for 2 days and finally got to see a couple trauma. From what I understand though, Miami Valley really is a busy hospital. As far as the city of Dayton goes, I did not like it very much. Being a single citygal from NYC/Philly, it was hard to adjust. Most singles did not like Dayton much, but if you are married and have kids, it really is a great place to live - cheap and nice houses, safe neighborhood, great neighbors, awesome suburbs.

    Travis AFB was very slow. First 3 weeks I think we had total of 10 cases or so, with 6+ attendings around. Last week of my stay it got a little busier. I did not get to know many attendings there. My intern was awesome, he taught a lot and was very good with everything he does. Several occasions I saw chief resident from UC Davis totally blowing off medication orders/ instructions by AF attendings - wondered if it was just that chief or general theme of people from UC Davis. My last 2 weeks chief switched to AF resident, and he seemed to get along with most attendings better. Took several calls from my housing but never did get called in for anything (nothing happened either). UC Davis supposed to be awesome but it is almost 1 hr away, and when you are rotating to Travis you do have to travel, which can be somewhat painful. Also, if you do residency here you owe 5-yrs payback time, not 4-yrs. Base itself is really beautiful, nice gym, about 1hr or so away from famous wineries and 2hrs from San Francisco. Once again though, it was too far from home for me.

    Keesler: didn't look too much into it, but some of the awesome AF residents are now attendings there, so one may get some unique operating experiences early in the residency (especially with no senior residents to taking over cases). Remember though, that's applicable only when you are on the AFB, which is <10% of your residency time.

    Wilford Hall: I didn't want to go to Texas, mostly because too far from home and too hot. I could not picture my mom with extreme sensitivity to glaring sunlight coming to stay with me in Texas. BAMC is supposed to be an awesome hospital, and the residency is now reduced to 6-yr program from 7-yr program (5yr payback time).

    Among the programs Wright-Patt would have been my number one choice, but problem with military residency is that none of the AF attendings will stay around to see the completion of your residency - deployment and also they have to move every 4 years or so. So if you are going somewhere because you love the attending there, it is not a guarantee that they will still be there when you start your residency. Furthermore, for AF, it's really the integrated civilian program that you will be spending 90% or more of your time, so your decision needs to be based on whether or not you want to go to that civilian program (except for BAMC, obviously). Sorry to be long winded, but I hope someone would find this helpful. These are all information as best as I know.
  2. thegunshow

    thegunshow

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    HI, when you did your surgery at Travis, where you able to get a feel for the Family Med residency program there?
    Last edited: 12.17.08
  3. metabolite

    metabolite

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    I assume that you were asking me? I did my travis rotation in this academic year; one of the residents in surgery was a FM resident doing her translational year. She seemed to be happy with her program; for FM people they don't need to leave the base, so she lives somewhere between the base and wine country and was thrilled with everything in the area. Doesn't seem terribly busy but certainly more had patients than surgery service. I don't know too much about the program, but if I was interested in FM Travis maybe a very nice place to do your residency. I hope this helps.
  4. 46&2

    46&2 Member

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    Actually, the FM residents do rotate outside the base. Pediatrics and some ER, for example, are done at UC Davis, which is 45 minutes away. There's an apartment there for the FP residents to stay. There's also an internal med rotation done at the Monterry VA, about an hour away as well.

    In terms of AF locations, Travis seems better than average for FP. The internal med rotations, though, are pretty lousy. They don't have a night float system, are Q3-4, and get the bulk of the ER admits.

    While you're doing internal med and surgery rotations, you still have to do continuity of care clinic clinic once a week along with a lecture day.

    FP is busy- everything else is slow.
  5. runninkyle17

    runninkyle17 New Member

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    Does anyone have information about the FM rotations at DeWitt and Eisenhower?

    Also, I am split between FM and IM at this point. How are the IM rotations at Walter Reed and Eisenhower?
  6. twillson

    twillson

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    Or not
    Last edited: 07.03.08
  7. NAVYLABTECH08

    NAVYLABTECH08 DA DOCTOR IS HERE

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    the area is ok. A big set back fo rme here is that the hospital is located in Portsmouth, which is surrounded by tunnels and terible traffic. Since P-town is not the most glamorous place to dwell, bought my home in Virginia Beach. Virgina Beach is ok. The actual hospital is nice. The facility is newer in comparison to other hospitals in this area. Fro some reason, the morale is really low though. I think it is becaus of those horrible tunnels!
  8. elderjack21

    elderjack21

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  9. Candlemaker

    Candlemaker

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    "With the 80 hour deal, surgical specialties have become more enticing especially at programs that take the 80 hours seriously. (Ours)"

    From the above post- Does this mean that one will work at least 80 hours or no more than 80 hours per week??
  10. Heeed!

    Heeed! On target, On time!

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    You'll work a MAX of 80 hours per week AVERAGED over 4 weeks.

    If you choose General Surgery, you'll be working right at 320 hours per month.
  11. Zulu451

    Zulu451

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    BAMC General Surgery has never been a 7 year program and never will be. BAMC has had no affiliation with WHMC, for some reason they just don't play well together. BAMC GS is now a 6 year program which includes a research year after the PGY 2 year. BAMC is now taking 3 Army interns per year AND 2 Air Force interns per year. We have 1 Air Force intern who is stellar and he essentially told the Air Force that he didn't want to be envolved with the University program. See below.

    The research year at BAMC has turned into one of the single most productive research years I have ever seen. Most all of the residents during that one year will have opportunities to publish multiple papers as first auther

    WHMC GS program is now a civilian 7 year program at UT San Antonio university hospital. You will do a 2 year research stint. IMO, this is screwing over the air force big time. The university hospital is a VERY busy hospital and they cannot fill their slots with civilian residents and end up filling w/ nearly all FMG's. They saw the air force residents as extra bodies. During the research year, the civilian residents will get loan repayments, and the air force guys, will owe extra years of service.
  12. fraucoordinator

    fraucoordinator Medical coordinator WHMC

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    Anyone interested in knowing more about WHMC General surgery, please feel free to contact me...yes I work here:)!
  13. bjay27

    bjay27 Azcomie 09

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    Great thread!
    Ive been all over SDN but havent seen anyone talk specificly about dress in the hospitals. Will I be doing rounds in my BDU's? No civilian shirt & tie ever? I take it camo scrubs would get a frown? What do I need in terms of uniforms/attire for the AF rotations? Also whats a typical IM schedule like, q?

    ADT orders are quite adimant about students not leaving the base? Is in not ok to check out the city or take a short drive somewhere?

    Do I need to have a specific military ID for the hospitals/base?

    I'll be doing IM interviews at Wright-Pat and Wilford in 1 month and will post my findings.

    Thanks
  14. kwick release

    kwick release urologist

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    The morale at Portsmouth Navy Hospital is low for a reason.

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6839671&postcount=60
  15. AFIM

    AFIM

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    Pretty much count on wearing the BDU (or ABU) at any Air Force hospitals. No one ever wears blues anymore (but might be nice to have it with you, interviews and such). The bit about not being allowed to go off-base is crap. Bring your reserve ID with you, of course, and you will probably get a CAC card on arrival. Make sure you eat 1) Mexican and 2) Barbecue (Rudy's) when you are in San Antonio.
  16. fraucoordinator

    fraucoordinator Medical coordinator WHMC

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    WHMC is integrated with The University of Texas health science center spend at 40% time there, plus other major hospitals in the area, not to mention VA hospital.
    We are not going anywhere due to BRAC . BAMC is really a seperate program from WHMC, it's like we have playdates, but no classes together ...San Antonio is the BEST place to live and work
  17. fraucoordinator

    fraucoordinator Medical coordinator WHMC

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    Are you still @ WHMC G.S ? Have a few questions
  18. twillson

    twillson

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    Just got back from FM at Eglin AFB. For those interested...
    Uniform - Blues MONDAY, BDU/ABU every other day except when on inpatient team
    Staff was awesome very good about teaching. It is a very NON-malignant learning environment. Residents get along well with each other. Classes do not generally segregate which is cool. Beach was nice too. Hospital is small and the inpatient services are not super exciting. The clinic is a pretty busy FM clinic with a good mix of patients. Message me if you need more info.
  19. svens27

    svens27

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    Has anyone done an EM rotation? If so, please tell me about it! I am thinking about doing an EM rotation at Madigan or Brooke
  20. met19

    met19 Member

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    2 yrs ago @portsmouth
  21. svens27

    svens27

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    Please tell me about it? What did you get to do? Were you interested in EM and if so did you stay interested in it after that rotation? How were the hours?
  22. met19

    met19 Member

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    got to do some lacs. already interested in ED. did many more procedures @ my school program (where im now a resident). support staff is excellent. most of the pts are healthly. faculty and residents were fine and knowledgable. hours were 8hr shifts.
  23. DiLLynqnt

    DiLLynqnt Member

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    Anyone have any experience doing an IM rotation in San Diego and Bethesda?
  24. Gastrapathy

    Gastrapathy no longer apathetic

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    What do you want to do? Wards are similar in both places, although I'd give the volume edge to San Diego. The unit at NNMC is less busy for sure. Subspecialty rotations are available at both and there are fellowships at both sites. If you are looking to impress, you're probably better off in a subspecialty rotation because ward attendings tend to rotate more frequently (plus its more fun). If this is a sub-I, I always recommend the unit. That gives you a big advantage for internship over people who haven't done a medical ICU rotation.

    BTW, portsmouth does not have fellows so there is more direct attending exposure (if that matters to you).
  25. Scooby007

    Scooby007

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    I have heard that we can sign up for two back-to-back ADTs during our 4th year: 1 at the end of the fiscal year (mid August to the end of September - "3rd year") and 1 at the start of the next fiscal year (October to mid November - "4th year"). Also, I have heard that we could split each 45 day ADT into two (2-4 week) locations.

    Is this correct? If so, it would allow me to rotate through more Army locations where I am applying to residency.
  26. psychbender

    psychbender Cynical Member

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    They don't have to be September and October. They can be any time early in your fourth year. If you need them to be August and September, then they can be scheduled that way.

    There is a limit to how short you can make your ADTs. I think the shortest ADT you can have is 24 days (check the handbook to verify), so you cannot turn one ADT into two. You can do a full 4 weeks at one location, then have the remainder be school orders, even if you are not, in fact, at school, but on another rotation. If you do back-to-back ADTs, I recommend you do 15 days of school orders before the first one, then the rotation, followed by rotation number 2, and 15 more days of school orders. Net result, you are active duty for 90 straight days, and get two rotations fully funded, with an additional 4 weeks of active duty pay while at school.

    Do ADTs at your two top places, then do NADTs for any further rotations that you may want (not always necessary).
  27. Scooby007

    Scooby007

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    Outstanding! If I use the remaining 15 days at another Army hospital, will they pay for travel and housing? I have heard of cases where students were put in the BOQs during NADTs...
  28. psychbender

    psychbender Cynical Member

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    No, they will not pay for travel or housing for the remaining time. As far as they are concerned, the remaining 15 days are served at school (regardless of where they are actually served). You just get your regular AD pay. For NADTs, your best bet is to contact the program, and see if there are any residents that are willing to put you up for the duration. Other than that, try craigslist.
  29. drhillary

    drhillary

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    Rotating at multiple MTFs while a medical student can be very eye opening and really get to experience the program before being ready to spend 3+ years working in that location/building and with the staff/residents/etc. Sometimes your ability to get away to do ADTs or NADTs will depend on your medical school. I was able to do 2 ADTs (gotta get to Hawaii) and 7 NADTs- which consisted of crashing on couches of friends, residents, and once at classmates' sister's apt. This allowed me to see all 6 Army MEDCENs and really make an educated choice about where I was going for residency and also where I might like to be stationed in the future.

    Most programs/GME know of residents who have a spare room or are willing to let you contact the chief or residents directly.

    Good luck and if you have any specific questions, feel free to PM.
  30. LilLong36

    LilLong36

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    I was wondering...Can you do an ADT and a NADT at the same location in the same year?

    Thanks
  31. psychbender

    psychbender Cynical Member

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    Yes. You can also do two or more NADTs at the same location in the same year. You just can't do more than one ADT at the same location.
  32. Scooby007

    Scooby007

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    Thank you for all of the answers and advice. Just to clarify some things:
    1. I thought my 4th year ADT needed to be 'within the Army's fiscal year for my 4th year'. Meaning that it needs to be after 1 October 09 if my 4th year is the 2009-2010 calendar year.
    2. Can you still interview at military hospitals past the application deadline, and for how long? For eaxmple, if the FYGME application deadline is 15 October, and I am on a 4th year rotation from 1 October to mid November, would I be able to interview towards the end of that ADT?
    Thanks!
  33. psychbender

    psychbender Cynical Member

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    1. No. The Army is nice enough to realize that it would be stupid to mandate that you wait until 1 October to do your 4th year ADT, so allow you to take it pretty much any time after your 3rd year ADT. I've heard people using it any time in July-October without any issues (I did mine in September).

    Technically, you could interview at the end of the rotation, though I probably wouldn't. Try to see if you can interview sooner in the month, eventhough it means that you will interview after they've only seen you for a week or two. When I was interviewing for prelim internships, one of the PDs was busy the first month I was at the hospital, so I mentioned that it might be easiest to just wait until I came back in October, and interview with him then. He replied that October was too late to be interviewing, and that he'd make time for me to meet with him while I was there in August.

    Someone else may chime in here and say that its perfectly fine to interview at the end of October, but I'd personally try to get it done sooner.
  34. met19

    met19 Member

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    took my 4th year ADT in Oct @ portsmouth. interviewed 3rd week with specialty leader. received deferral for residency :)
  35. MilitaryDoc

    MilitaryDoc

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    Does anyone know where (Websites, etc) I can post a house for rent or sale to Military or Civilian Medical? I bought a home in San Antonio TX near BAMC, thinking we would be here for awhile and now I am headed to PA.
  36. a1qwerty55

    a1qwerty55 Attending

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    www.ahrn.com
  37. PHD_2007

    PHD_2007 Senior Member

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    Anyone do a rotation at Walter Reed? I'm interested in their IM program.
  38. psychbender

    psychbender Cynical Member

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    I did MICU at WRAMC. PM me your questions.
  39. rkonmd

    rkonmd New Member

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    I see that a lot Navy/AF have shared their insight but would any ARMY residents/fellows/attendings also shed some light on their recent experiences at any of the Army clinical centers?

    Any insight into the quality of training, patient volume, and any other pros/cons would be really appreciated.
  40. Scooby007

    Scooby007

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    If I do 4 weeks at my ADT site then have the remaining 2 weeks at my "school", but actually go to another army hospital, do I need to arrange anything for the second hospital? For example, are they going to want to see Orders (which will state I am at my school) or a Memorandum of Affiliation (MOA) or something?

    Just trying to maximize my face-time at programs on a limited amount of time! I've heard of others doing something like this but wanted to be sure...
  41. psychbender

    psychbender Cynical Member

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    I just told everyone that I was doing an NADT when I had some of that "school orders" overlap from my actual ADT. No one asked me for orders, nor was I asked for an MOA.
  42. Scooby007

    Scooby007

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    1. Since you told them you were doing a NADT did you wear your uniform?

    2. The rotation I want gives preference to ADT over NADT and is a field that fills fast. My fear of telling them I am on a NADT would be to loose my spot. Has anyone else encountered this issue?
  43. 99WtoDoc

    99WtoDoc

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    I'd like to know as well!

    My thoughts would be that if you were still on ADT but "assigned to school" for that particular portion and you went to another military facility on your own dime, you'd still wear your uniform.

    However, would that NADT rotation expect to see any orders or would a letter from the school approving the credit be ok?
  44. DogFaceMedic

    DogFaceMedic Member

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    Careful. Knowingly giving false information to a federal installation -- i.e., a military hospital -- could come to bite one in the ... come match day.

    You could say that you are applying for ADT orders, and when it comes to the start of rotation, you can state you never received ADT orders and are stuck with NADT. Then it would be too late for them to switch.

    I did a NADT without problems and without uniform, and was not a problem. Although, it was not a competitive time or rotation.
  45. psychbender

    psychbender Cynical Member

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    1) Per the HPSP handbook, you are not supposed to wear your uniform while on NADT rotations. Some institutions may say they don't care, so you could.

    2) You don't have to tell them its an NADT when you schedule it with them. Just call up the person dealing with medical students and scheduling and say "I'd like to schedule a rotation with X at time Y." I don't think I ever mentioned ADT vs NADT when setting up my rotations, nor did anyone seem to care that I was doing an NADT for a competitive specialty at a highly-desired time.
  46. DogFaceMedic

    DogFaceMedic Member

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    Good advice. And, just say you are HPSP. WHen I did a NADT, they did not care if I was NADT or ADT status, just that I was HPSP.
  47. Scooby007

    Scooby007

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    When you showed up and went to the orientation, did anyone ask for your orders?
  48. DogFaceMedic

    DogFaceMedic Member

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    If anyone did, I told them it was an NADT or away rotation for my school. No one bothered me once I was there.
  49. DrSwim

    DrSwim

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    I'm not sure exactly what specialty I want to go into, but I am looking at FM, EM, Ortho, and Gen Surg. I am also looking at going to Travis, Eglin, Wright-Patterson, and Lackland. Any input as to which ones are good for a specific field? Or which are the "best" rotations at these bases?

    Also, would it look bad to do a rotation in a military hospital 3rd year when I won't have much clinical experience under my belt? Ideally I want to show them I know what I'm doing, but that seems impossible 3rd year. There's not much time to do ADTs/NADTs 4th year.

    input anyone?

    thanks :)
  50. StarboardMD

    StarboardMD

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    Has anyone else had experience with this? I just want to make sure, since I get conflicting replies from the HPSP office and I really don't want to pay a bunch of money to go to an ADT only to find out later that they're not paying since I tried to do 2 in one fiscal year...
    Thanks!

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