Military scholarships, residency, etc...?

[arc5005]

Are there any individuals here who I could possibly get further information from regarding the scholarships that are in conjunction with the military branches?

I really enjoy the perk of emerging out of med school debt free, but really would like to know how the residency match works, what commitment do you owe the navy/army/etc.. during med school & residency. Also, what does a commissioned officer medical doctor do? Do you have to go overseas? do you have to fight? do you have any choice in where you want to move/work for the years you owe them?

Also if interested when do I start this path? Do I wait until I have an acceptance? or should I speak with a recruiter beforehand?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Chlorini]

Start looking around in the military medicine forum. The name of the scholarship is called hpsp, you can also get involved with the military medical school in Bethesda, too but that involves a longer payback (you do get paid ~$60k while in school though!)

I'm doing the hpsp. I started looking into it after I took the MCAT. I was approved for it after I applied to medical school and I will receive my bonus after I am accepted. You are required to payback 4 years after residency. If your residency is more than 4 years those extra years are tacked on to what you owe.

There's a lot of information online. Just search hpsp navy/air force/army and you'll find plenty of info. Good luck!

 

[Chlorini]

Oh...and your past medical history can be a deal breaker... If you had any significant surgeries/diseases you may not qualify.

 

[moemoekyun]

I too am interested in this.

 

[order66.exe]

Are there any individuals here who I could possibly get further information from regarding the scholarships that are in conjunction with the military branches?

I really enjoy the perk of emerging out of med school debt free, but really would like to know how the residency match works, what commitment do you owe the navy/army/etc.. during med school & residency. Also, what does a commissioned officer medical doctor do? Do you have to go overseas? do you have to fight? do you have any choice in where you want to move/work for the years you owe them?

Also if interested when do I start this path? Do I wait until I have an acceptance? or should I speak with a recruiter beforehand?

Read the military medicine sub forum. Financially, its really only worth it if you go to a very expensive med school and intend on doing primary care. I have always thought about this path but reading about the experiences of some HPSPers has made me reconsider.

 

[arc5005]

Read the military medicine sub forum. Financially, its really only worth it if you go to a very expensive med school and intend on doing primary care. I have always thought about this path but reading about the experiences of some HPSPers has made me reconsider.

it seems like all the opinions are negative.

 

[Chlorini]

Take all the negativity with a grain of salt. I have spoken to people who have gone all the way through it. If you're a good medical student you'll be competitive in the military match, just like the regular match.

If you want to be extremely specialized the military may not be a good fit for you. There's a website that lists the specialties (and fellowships) they offer. I'll try to find it and post it on here.

 

[Chlorini]

http://www.militarygme.org/3.html Look under specialties/locations. You can tell what branch may or may not be a good fit for you.

 

[Tommyguns89]

You have to keep in mind, a lot of the analysis in that forum is from people who took the scholarship years ago. Since then the scholarship has offered more in the way of living stipend/bonus and tuition has risen significantly. It is always best to try to get the view point from somebody who entered in a situation as close to yours. For example somebody who took the scholarship and went to a state school when tuition was 25k a year and the living stipend was like 1000 a month and then matched derm might feel like they got ripped off, whereas somebody who gets into a private school today with a yearly tuition of 60k, and wants to go into family medicine might feel much differently.

 

[Cookie04]

I second what @Chlorini said. Just about all surgeries are disqualifying, even the smallest things like broken bones can disqualify you from service. Conditions like Asthma are also disqualifying. Of course you can obtain a medical waivers for these things, but it is difficult in some cases. Also many recruiters will tell you "if it isn't a problem, don't mention it." My own history of an Ear surgery as a child disqualified me from an HPSP.

Residency match in the military works just like the civilian world. You rank your preferences for Military residency programs. You may be deployed more based off of the specialty you choose, for example Emergency Medicine doctors get deployed more often then Family medicine and Pediatrics (if they even get deployed at all). You may be reassigned to different bases across the country and even accross the world (Germany, Japan, ect...) so if you like to travel, military medicine might be a good option for you. And keep in mind that the military isn't for everyone, "there is alot of BS you will have to deal with" (as told to me by a current HPSP medical student).

 

[arc5005]

I haven't had any surgeries, so I may still be eligible. I love traveling and I also really want to emerge out of med school debt free. I know a lot of people can pay back their loans, but I'd really like to start a family after residency and that requires cash.

 

[Cookie04]

Also, the military needs all specialities not just primary care so your specialty choice shouldn't stop you from choosing the HPSP option.

 

[arc5005]

Also, the military needs all specialities not just primary care so your specialty choice shouldn't stop you from choosing the HPSP option.

The only thing I'm worried about is my age. I would start med school at 28, start residency at 32/33, and then have to do an additional 4 years serving for the navy, which would bring me into my late 30s/early 40s. Do you think this may pose a problem?

 

[Cookie04]

The only thing I'm worried about is my age. I would start med school at 28, start residency at 32/33, and then have to do an additional 4 years serving for the navy, which would bring me into my late 30s/early 40s. Do you think this may pose a problem?

I don't think so, but a recruiter would be in a better position to answer that question for you.

 

[esob]

I haven't had any surgeries, so I may still be eligible. I love traveling and I also really want to emerge out of med school debt free. I know a lot of people can pay back their loans, but I'd really like to start a family after residency and that requires cash.

If "family" is your reasoning for going the military route, you will likely be unpleasantly surprised. I was 3rd generation military and worked 4 years in military medicine. The docs deployed just as much as the rest of us and the hrs they worked were as grueling if not more so than the 80 hrs a week I worked in the lab. Tac on to that your extra duties (CQ duty anyone?), PT training time (and if you aren't a natural athlete, you'll be doing additional training on your own time), plus whatever other new nightmarish things the military can concoct and it it literally once of the least conducive family environments that I've ever encountered. If you would have said you were a loner, a gunner, and you loved to travel and loved having a life full of spontaneity, then I would say its ideal for you. If you want to be a family man, look for one of those stateside scholarships that pays you for going into FP in an under served area or something similar.

 

[Chlorini]

The only thing I'm worried about is my age. I would start med school at 28, start residency at 32/33, and then have to do an additional 4 years serving for the navy, which would bring me into my late 30s/early 40s. Do you think this may pose a problem?

I am the same age as you and married. It's not a problem--as long as you are less than 35 when you start the military doesn't care.

 

[Chlorini]

If "family" is your reasoning for going the military route, you will likely be unpleasantly surprised. I was 3rd generation military and worked 4 years in military medicine. The docs deployed just as much as the rest of us and the hrs they worked were as grueling if not more so than the 80 hrs a week I worked in the lab. Tac on to that your extra duties (CQ duty anyone?), PT training time (and if you aren't a natural athlete, you'll be doing additional training on your own time), plus whatever other new nightmarish things the military can concoct and it it literally once of the least conducive family environments that I've ever encountered. If you would have said you were a loner, a gunner, and you loved to travel and loved having a life full of spontaneity, then I would say its ideal for you. If you want to be a family man, look for one of those stateside scholarships that pays you for going into FP in an under served area or something similar.

Geez! What branch were you in???

And yes OP, the NHSC is worth looking into as well.

 

[medic86]

Geez! What branch were you in???

And yes OP, the NHSC is worth looking into as well.

Sounds like Army, but what that poster stated is more applicable to the enlisted side of the house. There isn't any physician pulling CQ duty in any unit, and, in most units, aren't doing unit PT. Their hours might suck while deployed, though. In garrison is likely a much different story.

 

[WingedOx]

it seems like all the opinions are negative.

aaaaaaand you've discovered the military medicine SDN forum!

/that's not to say that I have personal experience with choosing the military, but I have plenty of friends, family, and co-workers who do, and I've been around SDN long enough to know that said forum tends to self-select for negativity.

 

[Woahmeh]

their website has a lot of key details

 

[68PGunner]

Sounds like Army, but what that poster stated is more applicable to the enlisted side of the house. There isn't any physician pulling CQ duty in any unit, and, in most units, aren't doing unit PT. Their hours might suck while deployed, though. In garrison is likely a much different story.

They don't pull CQ or Staff Duty. But, they do pull extra hours going to useless meetings. On the dental side of things, there have been instances where the Brigade Dentist have been asked to set up his/her field dental equipment in the motor pool on Saturday in order to knock out CAT 4 so that soldiers can be ready to be deployed. For FORSCOM units, the BN and BDE commanders don't prioritize soldiers' wellness.

 

[sonofva]

HPSP is only worth it if you really want to be in the military. That said it's impossible to really know what being in the military is like until you spend time in the military. So I would recommend talking to as many people who have been in the military medical side, and try to paint a picture for yourself as best you can. Then only join if that picture is something you can see yourself living with for 8 years minimum.

 

[68PGunner]

You have to keep in mind, a lot of the analysis in that forum is from people who took the scholarship years ago. Since then the scholarship has offered more in the way of living stipend/bonus and tuition has risen significantly. It is always best to try to get the view point from somebody who entered in a situation as close to yours. For example somebody who took the scholarship and went to a state school when tuition was 25k a year and the living stipend was like 1000 a month and then matched derm might feel like they got ripped off, whereas somebody who gets into a private school today with a yearly tuition of 60k, and wants to go into family medicine might feel much differently.

Sigh... It's not about the money. Trust me. If you are taking the HPSP for the money, you will hate it. If you're considering doing family medicine and don't mind the military, you should look into loan forgiveness for rural medicine. Rural medicine is 10x better than military medicine. At the end of the day, in the worst case scenario, you will come out equivalent to the HPSP side. There are a lot of more stuff to military medicine than just a difference of 100-150K in debt.

 

[68PGunner]

HPSP is only worth it if you really want to be in the military. That said it's impossible to really know what being in the military is like until you spend time in the military. So I would recommend talking to as many people who have been in the military medical side, and try to paint a picture for yourself as best you can. Then only join if that picture is something you can see yourself living with for 8 years minimum.

Exactly. You take the HPSP because you want to be in the military as the number 1 factor. In that scenario, you need to find out more about military medicine and not just people from this forum or military docs or dentists on school recruiting trips. You need to talk to

2-3 current military docs
2-3 current retired military docs
2-3 regular military officers

You will hear a variety of anecdotes from them. All of them will be true and apply to you at some point in your military career. The suck is real. Don't dismiss it.

 

[cardio7]

@arc5005, here's a DoD-sponsored website that goes into a lot of detail about HPSP, USUHS, and life as a military physician. It must be a pretty new site because few people on SDN seem to know about it:
http://medicineandthemilitary.com/

In reference to your other point about age, I started med school at 27. A good number of HPSP/USUHS students are older non-trad students and your age will not be a problem at all. I think you only need an age waiver when starting school at 36+.

I agree with everything that others are saying- if you pursue HPSP, honestly ask yourself if you REALLY want to join the military. Yes, the med school tuition is "free", but you will most likely deploy several times while the military owns you, and this will be hard on your family. You will probably also relocate and move your family every 3-4 years unless you sub-specialize. As a military physician you will make less money than your civilian counterparts unless you do primary care. The money is nice while you're in school, but you'll break even with those in the civilian world once you've all been in practice for a few years. You will deal with government bureaucracy and doing things just because the military says so. Bottom line: join the military if, despite all these things, you still want to serve your country and work with some of the best people in the world, anywhere in the world.

 

[Silence in ER]

like a good percentage of young women I have anemia, and that dq'ed me too. But what really ended it is my mom was sick ( liek really sick) when i was looking for the documents I needed and she absolutely hates the military and then I looked at her and felt I was not up to arguing with my sick mother over going into the military. So yeah......


Also military match. meh, no.

 

[asdf123g]

goodluck starting a family if you go military with all of the moving/deployments. Especially by the time you get out with your age...
Btw, it seems uncle sam has a big say in what specialty you pick as it is based on the needs of the military at that time.

 

[Satire5Texul]

If I remember correctly from SDN posts, the quality of clinical training was not on to par. And one of the biggest negatives was the bureaucracy - dealing with people who would pressure for the patient to be released when in reality that patient is not okay to go back to work.
And to the people that said things have changed - they haven't really. I still hear same old crap about people who naively signed up.


This thread will have all the answers:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/military-medicine-pros-cons-and-opinions.277310/

 

[IlDestriero]

Also military match. meh, no.

What do you mean by this?

 

[RurouniKarly]

I work with a doctor who did HPSP and his assessment was that it's only worth it if working in the military is your career goal. He was adamant that it's not worth it if all you want is the money. He told me that the military will have you fill out one of their standard dream sheets where you rank your residency preferences, and you may or may not be placed in your first choice depending on where the military needs people. He had a friend who's first choice was EM, but he was placed in a surgical residency instead. His friend ended up completing a year of the surgical residency, then breaking his contract and incurring penalties to leave and do an EM residency.

 

[asdf123g]

I work with a doctor who did HPSP and his assessment was that it's only worth it if working in the military is your career goal. He was adamant that it's not worth it if all you want is the money. He told me that the military will have you fill out one of their standard dream sheets where you rank your residency preferences, and you may or may not be placed in your first choice depending on where the military needs people. He had a friend who's first choice was EM, but he was placed in a surgical residency instead. His friend ended up completing a year of the surgical residency, then breaking his contract and incurring penalties to leave and do an EM residency.

^this. Just to reiterate what i said before, what specailty you get is partially based on the needs of the military at the time. EM is hard to get in the military from what i heard since most former military gun for that, for obvious reasons.

Also, you may end up getting stationed at fort nowhere hahaha

 

[sonofva]

^this. Just to reiterate what i said before, what specailty you get is based on the needs of the military at the time. EM is hard to get in the military from what i heard since most former military gun for that, for obvious reasons.

Also, you may end up getting stationed at fort nowhere hahaha

the military will NOT make you do a residency that you don't want to do. if you don't get picked up for the residency of your choice, they can make you do a transitional year and then send you off to be a GMO for the remainder of your contract until you either submit to their will or ETS from the military.

 

[sonofva]

duplicate.

 

[asdf123g]

the military will NOT make you do a residency that you don't want to do. if you don't get picked up for the residency of your choice, they can make you do a transitional year and then send you off to be a GMO for the remainder of your contract until you either submit to their will or ETS from the military.

From what I understand GMO's are common in Navy. In AF theres something similar. What I should've said is you cannot just defer to match civilian match if you dont get what specialty you want, they'll give you a deferment if that's what the military needs at the time. If they don't need it, you wont get that deferment if you don't land the milmatch. GMO land isn't ideal unless youre looking to leave the military ASAP. I think I read as a GMO you dont really do much medically challenging stuff so it can be a rough transition to residency depending on how long you do GMO.

 

[IlDestriero]

Many, many people go off to GMO land in the Navy and elsewhere, pay off their 4 years, peace out, and go out to civilian residency and ride off into the sunset. If you were Derm, ortho and urology material before your GMO tour, you're still there after. And everyone loves a Vet, especially other Vets, and we're everywhere.
As to residency, as noted above, and everywhere else, the military can't make you take a residency you don't want. They would send you off to GMO land to reapply again or just pay off your time and get out to the civilian match. If someone said that they wanted to be a neurosurgical dermatologist but the .mil made them take a Family Medicine spot instead it was because they applied for it.
P.S. This is the military, "breaking your contract" comes with a heavy price, it's called Prison. You don't break your contract, and if you did, there wouldn't be a civilian career waiting.
The constant misinformation and 1/2 truths has to stop. It's so annoying. And I think half the time it's some knucklehead who said "oh yeah, I would have done [super competitive specialty] but the Navy/Army/Air Force made me do family medicine..."
I'm sure it had nothing to do with their bad grades, below average usmle scores, and mediocre LORs.