MOC exam tomorrow

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sohsie

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Im heading to tampa for the MOC exam on monday. (Combined dermpath 150 questions and AP/CP 50 questions). I'll be in the first batch of test takers ever not counting the pilot exam last year. I am nowhere near as prepared as when I took the original certification exams. I just hope to ABP remembers that the testtakers have been spending the last bunch of years working in practical pathology and not memorizing minutiae and spending mosg of their time on routine cases and not hunting zebras.

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Tell the ABP to kiss your A$$ and welcome them to the age of the internet. They are the kings and queens of illegitimate coercion and should be railroaded immediately. Ask them what evidence they have that their actions provide cost effective value to the patient.
 
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I thought 2005-2006 was the last batch of people to pass the exam before they required on re-certification every 10 yrs. Seems like they're a little early?
 
Tell the ABP to kiss your A$$ and welcome them to the age of the internet. They are the kings and queens of illegitimate coercion and should be railroaded immediately. Ask them what evidence they have that their actions provide cost effective value to the patient.
You miss their point---it is cost effective to the ABP.
 
I passed AP/CP in Spring 2007 so I think this is year 7 of my 10 year cycle. All I know is soon after I submitted my 6 year reporting they made the test available to me so I signed up.

I have disagreements with the ABP but Dr. Bennett was not in any way a buffoon. If you are implying that her accent makes her one well I grew up in the South so I guess that makes us buffoons together.

I have no disagreement with the ABP regarding requiring me to be tested again simply because all of the specialties are that way by ABMS mandate so they didn't have a choice. I disagree with the ABMS about the need for this but that isnt the ABPs fault.

Is $500 too much? I dont know what the other specialties charge so Im not sure.

Do I have a complaint? Yes. Since there aren't any glass slides, I wish they would contract with Sylvan so that people could take the exam where and when they want instead of having to trudge down to Tampa (in my case fly cross country) on a specific day.
 
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That exam was painful, and that was the consensus of everyone there who took it.

Firstly, the format. If you are doing AP/CP or AP or CP only, you get 3.5 hours and the exam is 150 questions. If you are doing a combined primary and subspecialty, its 200 questions and you get 4.5 hours. You dont need nearly that much time to finish the exam.

If you are AP/CP, whether or not you are also doing a subspecialty, you start with a 50 question general AP/CP module. You can only answer questions in that module and once you finish it, you can't go back to it. You can't start any other module until you finish this general module. If you are AP or CP only, Im not sure if you start with a 25 or 50 question general module.

Once you finish the general module, if you are subspecialty (as I am), you go into a 150 question subspecialty module. Once you finish that, the exam is over. As I said before, once you start the subspecialty module, you can't go back to the general module.

If you are just AP/CP, then once you finish the general module, you can choose the next module you want to do. They apparently differ in the number of questions (some nodules have more questions, some have fewer). Once you finish a module, you again choose the next one you want to do until you've done a total of 150 questions. One you finish a module and move onto the next one, you can't go back to any of the modules you have completed.

As for what they ask, if you havent done CP (as I havent), then there is a lot of probably basic stuff that you wont remember anymore, so better study for real. But more importantly, there are a lot of what I call "look up knowledge" questions, stuff you don't need to have in your memory banks for day to day practice as long as you have a book/internet nearby to figure out. I wont go any more specific than that, but it was really frustrating, especially since I probably knew that stuff better for the primary exam. Some stuff that they asked I knew I should have memorized but didn't. Some of it I think was fair to ask so I only have myself to blame. Other stuff again is "look up" knowledge that I dont think should have been tested.

However, I have 2 real complaints about this exam.
1) Virtual microscopy. They need to junk this and just use glass slides like real pathologists. We're in Tampa anyway and there is staff there who I am sure can handle the slide boxes. Too many questions I was asked to evaluate a virtual microscopy image of a large lesion that needed a complete evaluation (looking at epidermis and dermis) which is torture when trying to use virtual microscopy. Its pick a spot, zoom in, wait for image to reload, move to another spot, wait for image to reload, etc. etc. Its like trying to piece together the plot of a 2 hour movie by examining random frames from a film reel. There is a reason why we still have microscopes and will have them for a long time.
2) Images of a small focus of a lesion and asking for a diagnosis when multiple choices in the differential diagnosis are possible. That's bad enough, but then add doing it with absolutely no clinical history which would normally narrow down the differential diagnosis, which was the case in some of the images. So many of those images I said to myself "if I had the glass slide from which this image was taken, I could give the answer, but please don't ask me to guess based on the one focus which you think is diagnostic (clue: its not, and a good pathologist knows not to make a diagnosis based on one high power field).

Anyway, I think I passed, maybe, but I am not at all confident. Of course I felt that way about all the other exams (except CP where I actually was confident I passed but thats because I spent a lot more time studying for that than AP or dermpath. A lot more. I had been carrying around Clinical Laboratory Pearls and reading it for over 2 years just to prepare for that exam).

A final note. There was a day session of people doing only primary, only subspecialty, or combined exams in the morning. In the afternoon, there were more people doing primary exams (no subspecialty). After that, no one else signed up for the spring session. They only needed one day to get everyone in. I expect that will change for the next session they have (which hopefully I wont have to deal with)
 
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Any idea if they are grading the 50 question primary AP/CP separate from the 150 question subspecialty component?
 
That sounds even worse that I was expecting. I can't believe they are making us fly to Tampa for it.

There's essentially no chance I'm volunteering to take it early. Why turn your 10 year certificate to a 7 year one?
 
That sounds even worse that I was expecting. I can't believe they are making us fly to Tampa for it.

There's essentially no chance I'm volunteering to take it early. Why turn your 10 year certificate to a 7 year one?


What if you fail it and your cert is about to expire? I guess that's a reason to take it a bit earlier just in case...
 
A.) Having to fly to Tampa to take this test is crap.

B.) I'm fine providing 'proof' that I'm staying 'up' on the practice of my specialty, but isn't that inherent to the premise of CME? The whole notion of having to "RE-certify" implies that the body of knowledge undergoes such change it requires a full-blown re-CERTIFICATION, as opposed to the continual, regular observation of skills (ie. CME). Maintenance of Certification plus "exam" is an oxymoron....if something is maintained, it is addressed regularly, evenly and completely, not in random 200-question blocks q 7-10 yrs.

C.) The disconnect between the people writing the exam and those taking it is palpable. I haven't even been in practice a year and I'm g**dam sick of the endless supply of loops we're required to jump through. It's just disgusting.

I understand healthcare is changing and there's a need to put forth an image of excellence to the bureaucratic nightmare that holds our fate (CMS, Congress, et al), but the MOC test should mirror reality, not some imaginationland contrived by insulated, ivory-tower academicians.

"Imaginaaaaaation land. Imaginaaaaaaaaaaaation land. Imaaaaaaagination land. Imaaginaaation laaaand." --The Mayor
 
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I'd like to see a study that supports MOC. Over the next few years compare patient outcomes whether they were diagnosed by a pathologist boarded in 2005 vs one boarded in 2008 that participates in MOC. If there is no difference, then what's the point. If there is, then I'll gladly participate.
 
Essentially every other specialty has to take MOC exams, BTW.
 
randomlogik said:
Any idea if they are grading the 50 question primary AP/CP separate from the 150 question subspecialty component?
I dont think so. I think its just one overall test score pass or fail so if you mess up one module you can make it up elsewhere. Different than the primary exams
 
That sounds even worse that I was expecting. I can't believe they are making us fly to Tampa for it.

There's essentially no chance I'm volunteering to take it early. Why turn your 10 year certificate to a 7 year one?

You arent sacrificing any years from your certification by taking it early. The ABP considers the exam just one item as part of all the items you have to do during the 10 year MOC cycle. Once you pass your MOC cycle continues as normal. For me my certification expires in 2017. If I passed it will still expire in 2017. If I accomplish all of the MOC requirements then my certification will be renewed for another 10 years and expire in 2027.

I asked dr. Bennett about this during a CAP webinar about MOC and she was quite explicit on this point.
 
I took the MOC exam on Monday too: thought it was pretty fair and hope I passed.
AP-only, so had the 50 question basic module and then 4 additional modules:
I picked 2 GI/Liver modules and 2 Gen Surg Path modules.

Overall, I thought there was a lot of GU and breast, little GYN, and practically no cytology.
They tended to repeat a lot of diagnoses which I thought was funny, e.g., one diagnosis was
tested in the general module, one of the GI modules, and one of the Gen Surg Path modules.
I guess they really want you to know that one!

Best advice: look at the syllabus they distribute with your exam date... (very high yield
in terms of what they ask).
 
Appreciate all of you post information. The MOC exam is different from the first time board exam. Can anyone share experience on how to prepare the MOC exam, what material, how to prep....? It is difficult to go over everything such as the Osler board review. I'll take AP/CP + cyto, 200 Qs
 
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Do program directors from your residency program get information on who passes and who does not pass the MOC exam?
 
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