Moonlighting as a resident

[Slevin]

Is moonlighting while in residency in the military possible?

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[elderjack21]

Is moonlighting while in residency in the military possible?

A couple of the places that I have rotated through have said that the "commander" doesn't allow military residents to moonlight. Something about already being paid well for a resident or something.

I am not sure how they would enforce this type of thing though. I know that attending physicians in the military seem to be able to moonlight.

I would be interested to hear from others on this as well...

 

[NavyFP]

No, moonlighting as a resident is strictly forbidden when on active duty.

 

[jabreal00]

Moon lighting as a resident or fellow when on active duty is strictly forbidden. There's no equivocation about it. Even those who go off to civilian DEFERRED residencies or fellowships are told they cannot moonlight or risk getting pulled from fellowship.

 

[burs0028]

I concur; no moonlighting. There was a Heme-onc fellow (AD fellowship) was removed from their program a year or two back when they were caught moon-lighting.

 

[narcusprince]

If you are civilian deferred you can do whatever is in the by laws of your residency. At my residency internal moonlighting is built into the daily schedule. IE if you stay late you get paid after 530pm 60$ an hour. Also, moonlighting at my program allows you different clinical opportunities. IE if we take liver call we get paid for the call 700$ if called in if not 200$, if we take weekend call in the main OR we get paid 800$ for in-house call and 200$ to hold pager and 700$ if called in, if we take OB call we get paid 60$ an hour for the call. Even with these calls in place nobody breaks or comes close to 80 hrs. I certainly do not have to moonlight but my fellow residents love the extra scratch.

 

[SuperSoccer19]

moonlighting is also not limited to medicine. it is considered "moonlighting" if you accept any form of payment outside of your military salary. This includes working at McDonalds, pole dancing, etc. Not sure about panhandling though.

 

[colbgw02]

If you are civilian deferred you can do whatever is in the by laws of your residency. At my residency internal moonlighting is built into the daily schedule. IE if you stay late you get paid after 530pm 60$ an hour. Also, moonlighting at my program allows you different clinical opportunities. IE if we take liver call we get paid for the call 700$ if called in if not 200$, if we take weekend call in the main OR we get paid 800$ for in-house call and 200$ to hold pager and 700$ if called in, if we take OB call we get paid 60$ an hour for the call. Even with these calls in place nobody breaks or comes close to 80 hrs. I certainly do not have to moonlight but my fellow residents love the extra scratch.

I'm almost positive that this is a major no-go if you're doing a sponsored civilian residency or fellowship. If it's unsponsored, then I'm not so sure, but I would be very leary. Anyone know the regulation for the unsponsored?

 

[narcusprince]

My understanding is if your sponsored you cannot moonlight at all(strictly forbidden). As far as civilian deferred you are under the jurisdiction of your residency. I do not moonlight but their are folks at my institution that are civilian deferred whom pick up shifts doing liver transplants or filling a paid call. Also, if you stay late the institution pays you for the late time. I do not know how the military can regulate what a resident does during their deferred training. Especially if they do not fund the resident.

 

[colbgw02]

My understanding is if your sponsored you cannot moonlight at all(strictly forbidden). As far as civilian deferred you are under the jurisdiction of your residency. I do not moonlight but their are folks at my institution that are civilian deferred whom pick up shifts doing liver transplants or filling a paid call. Also, if you stay late the institution pays you for the late time. I do not know how the military can regulate what a resident does during their deferred training. Especially if they do not fund the resident.

Yeah, but I think we both know that not being able to enforce or regulate something in no way impacts what the military puts on paper.

Being sponsored usually means you're technically on active duty (or at least that's true of my specialty's civilian fellowships), so I'm sure that the same GME rules apply to those people as apply to active duty residents. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

 

[J-Rad]

If you are sponsored (FTOS) during residency or fellowship, you are forbidden from getting any salary for any work you do, nor are you allowed to get any type of housing allowance. It would be considered a form "double dipping" to receive either since you get both from the govt. I use this wording because this is how it gets laid out in the contract that your service will either write or amend for you prior to starting your program. I have heard of people doing internal moonlighting with some non-pay recompense (like getting a laptop or something), but given your generally better pay scale, I don't think most would choose to do this.

I believe Narcus is correct: if you are deferred, you are only under the rules of your residency program in regards to moonlighting.

 

[NJEMT1]

Civilian deferral for residency is not permitted to moonlight either. I must have my program director sign a form every year acknowledging that I'm not allowed to moonlight.

 

[met19]

Civilian deferral for residency is not permitted to moonlight either. I must have my program director sign a form every year acknowledging that I'm not allowed to moonlight.

That wasn't in my form when I was deferred- my program director is a stickler for following rules. I moonlighted too at my own insitution. Also the difference between a sponsored and a deferred is simple. The sponsored is being paid by the military and acrues AD time towards retirement. The deferred gets time towards pay but is not paid by the military and is IRR status.

 

[jabreal00]

I'm almost positive that this is a major no-go if you're doing a sponsored civilian residency or fellowship. If it's unsponsored, then I'm not so sure, but I would be very leary. Anyone know the regulation for the unsponsored?

Moonlighting is not allowed in civilian deferred fellowships or residencies. My wife is doing a fellowship as civilian deferred (Air force). She was told that she can get pulled out of fellowship if she is found out to moonlight. Her program allows moonlighting. She had to get her program director to sign paperwork attesting that she is not moonlighting. Of course it's harder to check up on those doing civilian deferred training who may be moonlighting, especially if it's not conspicuous and they are well under 80hrs/wk. Many civilian programs will look the other way or wink that they they are not moonlighting.

 

[met19]

I find it interesting that the military won't let you moonlight as a civ deferred. we won't pay you any money ( so you make less) we will count it for time towards pay/promotion but not retirement, we will not count it towards your 8 year active and reserve component. And the diversity of cases and sicker patients are larger outside the military.

Interesting....

 

[narcusprince]

I think this is branch specific. No where in any of my paperwork is their a moonlighting clause. The only clause I have seen is the air force..

 

[Doctor Bob]

(I tap 3 black mana to cast Resurrect Thread)

I'm doing a civilian deferred fellowship, and as usual the AirForce has their yearly form which states no moonlighting while in training and that doing so can result in immediate withdrawal from training.
So even though there are plenty of in and out of house compensation opportunities, I'm not able to do any of them. My PD does not want to look the other way so long as they were required to sign the form with the above verbage.

When I asked the personnel office why moonlighting wasn't allowed, the answer I got was "any type of job that pays aside from any Air Force compensation is considered moonlighting"
So... by that rationale, since I'm deferred (and had to go through a headache's worth of separation paperwork to put it into effect), I'm moonlighting right now as my fellowship is paying my salary and that's separate from any Air Force compensation (which is currently $0 for me).

Ugh. All I want is a straight forward understandable answer from the AF as to why this isn't allowed for deferred people. I understand why it isn't allowed for sponsored or AD fellows.
I should know better after all these years.

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

It is not allowed because it is easier to say no to everybody than to have to think.

 

[deuist]

I think that the reason you are not allowed to moonlight is because the Air Force wants you to spend all of your free time studying. Working a second job takes time away from reading books and we all know that the military thinks that reading is more important than seeing patients.