More for profit allopathic schools...

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PikminOC

MD Attending Physician
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2013-2014
IS-2 The parent institution of a medical education program should have not-for-profit status.
Link:
http://www.lcme.org/connections/connections_201...
2014-2015
IS-2 Note that standard IS-2 has been deleted effective July 1, 2013
Link:
http://www.lcme.org/connections/connections_201...

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Not sure what these codes mean, exactly. Are these current allopathic schools that are moving to for-profit status, or are new schools that are being established as for-profits? The latter would certainly not help the residency situation..
 
This happened a long time ago, and was theorized to pave the way for potential for-profit schools like Northstate. At this point I'm skeptical that any for-profit MD school would pass accreditation however.
 
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One LCME school, Ponce School of Medicine, switched to for-profit status. According to the LCME site, they have their next visit next year.
 
For profit school? I consider Roseman.edu a for-profit school. No?

EDIT: Nevermind- I guess it's private. It sure does give off a for-profit vibe though :dead:

This happened a long time ago, and was theorized to pave the way for potential for-profit schools like Northstate. At this point I'm skeptical that any for-profit MD school would pass accreditation however.
 
For profit school? I consider Roseman.edu a for-profit school. No?

EDIT: Nevermind- I guess it's private. It sure does give off a for-profit vibe though :dead:

For-profit schools are typically private, that said I'm not aware of a Roseman medical school.
 
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You guys are adorable. Amazon is almost a "non profit" technically.

Plenty of non-profit hospitals pay their CEOS millions of dollars.
 
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which is irrelevant to the discussion.

Except it is? Point is: what is the distinction between a for profit medical school (not publicly traded) and a non-profit medical school from the perspective of the student?

There's still going to be lavish bonuses for the administration at some places, and normal bonuses elsewhere (independent on whether it is for profit or not).
 
Given their website doesn't mention the LCME or accreditation whatsoever (unless I missed it), that's not a good sign for the place actually opening as planned.

They announced it 3 years ago and have been on the "applicant" status for LCME. I assume it will happen- I got accepted for their PharmD program once upon a time. I was a little against having to give up my 2nd kidney to pay for tuition.
 
Except it is? Point is: what is the distinction between a for profit medical school (not publicly traded) and a non-profit medical school from the perspective of the student?

There's still going to be lavish bonuses for the administration at some places, and normal bonuses elsewhere (independent on whether it is for profit or not).

Incentives. It is immaterial if non-profit emoyees and executives get paid as much as for-profit employees and executives, what does matter is who those people are ultimately serving: investors and the bottom line, or their students?
 
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You can't tell me that those schools who are charging 280k tuition aren't profiting. Puhlease. That cash money has to be going somewhere and unless they're adding crazy new stuff each year, you know it's getting tucked in someone's pocket.

real-estate-riches.jpg
 
Incentives. It is immaterial if non-profit emoyees and executives get paid as much as for-profit employees and executives, what does matter is who those people are ultimately serving: investors and the bottom line, or their students?
Thank you, and that's why I said you guys are adorable. Even non-profit medical schools are concerned about turning a "profit" in that they want to be able to pay their CEOs lavish sums of money. Plenty of people that run medical schools are paid 800k+ a year.

Like it or not, Harvard doesn't have a 36 billion dollar endowment for the students.
 
Medical students and premeds drastically underestimate how much it costs to operate a medical school.

Most schools lose money at a slow trickle.

I could understand but you have to admit there are huge variations in tuition. I know there are tax breaks or government grants or w/e if you're a state school but for a 280k tuition school, each student costs 70k a year? I just don't understand how that isn't well over the cost of operation.

Maybe @Goro knows more ;)
 
LCME requires a more substantial investment in research facilities, as compared to COCA. Labs aren't cheap.

Any decent research dep't can rake in more in indirect costs from R01s and R21s than can an entire Class would yield in tuition.

Professors don't come cheap either.

I suppose RVU pulls it off by having $0 in research.

I could understand but you have to admit there are huge variations in tuition. I know there are tax breaks or government grants or w/e if you're a state school but for a 280k tuition school, each student costs 70k a year? I just don't understand how that isn't well over the cost of operation.

Maybe @Goro knows more ;)
 
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Well I don't know of a single school with a 280K tuition, but maybe I'm behind the times. Usually numbers that hight including COA.

State schools often receive heavy state subsidy/incentive which allows them cheaper tuition. Or they are permitted to run at a heavier loss by the people in the state government overseeing them.

In the schools I know - the medical center expects a small negative margin from the medical school which is then offset with earnings from the patient care side.
280k is on the high side, but plenty of medical schools (it's actually the median) are 60k a year. In 2000 the median was (very roughly) 30k. Inflation was very low during the 00's so it doesn't explain the doubling very well. People in the 00's could also borrow at 1-2% which has an effect of essentially halving the actual cost, if not moreso compared to 7% loans. Any investor would go gaga for the chance to make a guaranteed (default rate is basically none) 7% ROI that still soldiers on even if the market tanks.

There's a lot of profit to be had in this "non-profit" world is all I'm saying.
 
280k is on the high side, but plenty of medical schools (it's actually the median) are 60k a year. In 2000 the median was (very roughly) 30k. Inflation was very low during the 00's so it doesn't explain the doubling very well. People in the 00's could also borrow at 1-2% which has an effect of essentially halving the actual cost, if not moreso compared to 7% loans. Any investor would go gaga for the chance to make a guaranteed (default rate is basically none) 7% ROI that still soldiers on even if the market tanks.

There's a lot of profit to be had in this "non-profit" world is all I'm saying.

Yeah I just looked at AAMC and ACOMAS stats and you're right most schools fall in 200k-260k probably averaging more around 215k~.

But what you said is 100% true. Tuition increasing rapidly faster than inflation. Some programs haven't implemented huge costly changes to make up for it. Unless we can assume it was from cheeky students who got kicked out and tried suing the school. That could require some $$$ :p
 
Thank you, and that's why I said you guys are adorable. Even non-profit medical schools are concerned about turning a "profit" in that they want to be able to pay their CEOs lavish sums of money. Plenty of people that run medical schools are paid 800k+ a year.

Like it or not, Harvard doesn't have a 36 billion dollar endowment for the students.

Yah I'm not gonna pretend like I have to explain the difference between Harvard and Facebook's modus operandi and payment incentives.
 
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