Most important factors for getting desired residency?

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Treehun

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Hello,

(A link is welcome if this has been addressed before)

As an incoming osteopathic student, what are the most important things I can do to be the most competitive I can be for an army residency?

what is an acceptable leadership position to get points with?

Does rotc participation get any points ?

School name or research quality matter?

Thank you

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1) get good grades
2) Be a good student during your 3rd and 4th year
3) Network well at your desired program destination
4) There are points for quality research.
5) School Name matters Harvard>West Georgia Regional Osteopathic Medical (WGROM). That was kind of a dumb question.
 
Being an attractive military residency candidate is no different than being an attractive civilian residency candidate, by and large.
 
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Threadjack warning, but the topic seems (somewhat) relevant...

I applied for a 3 year Army HPSP and was just offered. Despite of my recruiter's optimism, attending BOLC this summer seems likely since I'm still months away from commissioning. This means I will have to complete BOLC the summer before residency. Therefore, I wouldn't be able to start my residency until September or so. Here are my questions.

1) How common is it for HPSP students to not complete BOLC before graduation?

2) Do residency programs offer a later starting time? I'm concerned that this will limit my residency options even more (A friend at Tripler said his report date was in June)

3) Will the lack of BOLC put me at a disadvantage during the match process? "The rest of his file looks good, but he can't start on time, etc"

Thank you as always - it's grateful to have this forum during times of endless wait!
 
1) get good grades
2) Be a good student during your 3rd and 4th year
3) Network well at your desired program destination
4) There are points for quality research.
5) School Name matters Harvard>West Georgia Regional Osteopathic Medical (WGROM). That was kind of a dumb question.

As a proud graduate of WGROM I take offense! May the ghost of AT Still haunt your dreams...
 
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Threadjack warning, but the topic seems (somewhat) relevant...

I applied for a 3 year Army HPSP and was just offered. Despite of my recruiter's optimism, attending BOLC this summer seems likely since I'm still months away from commissioning. This means I will have to complete BOLC the summer before residency. Therefore, I wouldn't be able to start my residency until September or so. Here are my questions.

1) How common is it for HPSP students to not complete BOLC before graduation?

2) Do residency programs offer a later starting time? I'm concerned that this will limit my residency options even more (A friend at Tripler said his report date was in June)

3) Will the lack of BOLC put me at a disadvantage during the match process? "The rest of his file looks good, but he can't start on time, etc"

Thank you as always - it's grateful to have this forum during times of endless wait!

How sure are you that they would send you the summer of medical school graduation? You would be the first person I've ever heard of doing it at that time. Typically they try and get you there during medical school, but if that's not possible, then it's usually either after internship or after residency.
 
How sure are you that they would send you the summer of medical school graduation? You would be the first person I've ever heard of doing it at that time. Typically they try and get you there during medical school, but if that's not possible, then it's usually either after internship or after residency.


In my intern class we had 3 late starts due to people making up bolc. Apparently it's the new initiative. They are trying to force everyone into doing all the "required" schooling before continuing with training
 
In my intern class we had 3 late starts due to people making up bolc. Apparently it's the new initiative. They are trying to force everyone into doing all the "required" schooling before continuing with training

Thanks. The push to get BOLC done is a few years old, but wow, they've really taken it to a new level. Considering that failure to get an unrestricted medical license is a show-stopper, I halfway thought that they might actually leave people alone to complete their internship. Lesson re-learned: never underestimate the Army's inability to correctly order priorities.
 
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As a proud graduate of WGROM I take offense! May the ghost of AT Still haunt your dreams...

OK, I'll make up a better school. How about North Central Alaskan Branch of University of Phoenix Online Naturaopathic Healing Arts Academy<Harvard.

Good ol' NCABUPONHAA
 
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The push today is definitely getting BOLC done BEFORE residency. Afterall, you don't want to fit the already rediculous stereotype that medical officers have with being a direct HPSP with zero military experience walking onto a base for the first time to work. I've seen people start residency late in order to get BOLC done. Everyone I've spoken to highly encourages getting it done before medical school is completed. I even had a classmate take precious vacation during rotations to get it done.
 
Hello,

(A link is welcome if this has been addressed before)

As an incoming osteopathic student, what are the most important things I can do to be the most competitive I can be for an army residency?

what is an acceptable leadership position to get points with?

Does rotc participation get any points ?

School name or research quality matter?

Thank you


Audition rotations are key. Go to every site that you would really want.

I was ROTC before HPSP. I don't think I got "points" for it, but it was positively remarked upon during interviews. We are physicians AND military officers.
 
As a proud graduate of WGROM I take offense! May the ghost of AT Still haunt your dreams...

What I wouldn't give to see AT Still's ghost snap someone's neck...Arnold Schwarzeneggar style.
 
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Here is the definitive answer to BOLC

Everyone will have BOLC prior to reporting to internship – this includes USUHS. Last year there were 21 interns who reported to PGY-1 late. This year out of the 268 graduating HPSP students all but four have been to BOLC. USUHS is trying to have their graduates attend a BOLC this winter prior to PGY-1 start. Anyone (HPSP or USUHS) who has not been to BOLC will go this summer prior to internship which means a late PGY-1 start. If anyone in HPSP has not attended, by the end of third year, they will use their third ADT to attend. If they don’t attend BOLC then, the third ADT will not be performed at a teaching MTF. This means that there will only be one paid "interview" rotation. Bottom line, do it while in HPSP and doing it early is preferable.

Also, there is a move afoot to add an additional four weeks of officer training. They call it the Direct Commission Course (DCC). The current plan is to make the DCC a prerequisite to BOLC. This means that if ATRRS says you have not yet attended DCC you will not be allowed to go to BOLC. The implications of this are huge. Someone who does not have DCC will graduate and then instead of six weeks of BOLC, will have to do four weeks of DCC then six weeks of BOLC prior to starting PGY-1. There is a rumor and it is a RUMOR that the Medical Corps will stop special pays for anyone who has not attended BOLC starting FY 2018. Because Dental Corps is already doing this, I can see it happening to MC too.

ak44 – get on top of your recruiter and impress on him the importance of you going this summer before your second year classes start.
 
Here is the definitive answer to BOLC

Everyone will have BOLC prior to reporting to internship – this includes USUHS. Last year there were 21 interns who reported to PGY-1 late. This year out of the 268 graduating HPSP students all but four have been to BOLC. USUHS is trying to have their graduates attend a BOLC this winter prior to PGY-1 start. Anyone (HPSP or USUHS) who has not been to BOLC will go this summer prior to internship which means a late PGY-1 start. If anyone in HPSP has not attended, by the end of third year, they will use their third ADT to attend. If they don’t attend BOLC then, the third ADT will not be performed at a teaching MTF. This means that there will only be one paid "interview" rotation. Bottom line, do it while in HPSP and doing it early is preferable.

Also, there is a move afoot to add an additional four weeks of officer training. They call it the Direct Commission Course (DCC). The current plan is to make the DCC a prerequisite to BOLC. This means that if ATRRS says you have not yet attended DCC you will not be allowed to go to BOLC. The implications of this are huge. Someone who does not have DCC will graduate and then instead of six weeks of BOLC, will have to do four weeks of DCC then six weeks of BOLC prior to starting PGY-1. There is a rumor and it is a RUMOR that the Medical Corps will stop special pays for anyone who has not attended BOLC starting FY 2018. Because Dental Corps is already doing this, I can see it happening to MC too.

ak44 – get on top of your recruiter and impress on him the importance of you going this summer before your second year classes start.

This just shows the complete disconnect between AMEDD and its constituency. AMEDD should be actively working against that plan, instead it sounds like they are floating it. WOW!!

In medicine we like to look at scientific evidence, is there any evidence that the current plan makes a better Army Officer....or how about any that an additional 4 weeks adds any value. Doubt it.
 
BOLC is important because it is a requirement that you have to had fulfilled in order to deploy. Previously after residency if you have not completed BOLC you could fall through the cracks and never take it and at the same time never be available to deploy. (Bad thing for the Army). I have met numerous people who are attendings, paying back initial ADSO, and have never had to deploy because they haven't completed BOLC. At the same time while you are working in an understaffed clinic as an attending they may not be able to spare you to take BOLC since you would have to take the longer form of BOLC. People then are able to payabck ADSO without ever going to BOLC. Another interesting thing is that if you have a flag (fail height and weight) on your record you can't attend BOLC. So if you can survive through residency and boards, immediately fail height and weight after walking the stage and never get sent to BOLC your military career will be mute, you'll be harassed within their abilities, but you'll never deploy and likely never serve in a line unit position. Also a another reason why height and weight are becoming so important for advancing on in residency.

DCC- another way the AMEDD school house folks try to make themselves relevant for their OERs and reasons they can't be moved.

My 2 cents- I don't forsee the Direct Commission Course being anything relevant for medical students. We have limited summers as it is. If you had to complete this prior to your start of the PGY-1 year you it would have to be completed prior to the shortened summer BOLC that majority of medical students take otherwise you wouldn't be starting BOLC till sometime in August at the earliest and finishing some time in late September or more likely possibly October. If the Army wanted to force a person to take the DCC course after they finished medical school then they would have to place that individual on active duty sooner (sometime in early May likely) which would be on one hand good for the individual because inital entry date would be sooner and collecting active duty pay sooner and would effect the ADSO end date likely.

For residency- no body cares if you already attended BOLC or not, it won't increase or decrease your chance of getting selected. Your board exams will do plenty of that. Depending on the shortened BOLC dates you will likely expect to start Sept 1 and any gap time in August will be spent PCSing, inprocessing, and any additional hospital stuff to preapare for a Sept 1 start date. Numerous people have late starts due to not finishing medical school in May, returning from a previous duty station or deployment, etc. In the whole scheme of things as long as your ADSO completion date doesn't get overly screwed up so you can plan for separating from the military in May-July timeframe it really doesn't matter much.

Side note- interesting that the total army HPSP students is down to 268 from previously being over 350 just a few years ago.
 
Well, this answers some questions about DCC (message to Army HPSP students this morning)

The Direct Commission Course is going to become a prerequisite to BOLC over the next few summers. The course itself offers a truncated advance training opportunity that is designed to enhance your skills as a leader in today's Army. Along with the leadership and team leading skills you will learn there will also be the opportunity to go to the firing range with your rifle, learn how to read an Army relief map and then navigate using that skill, there is an introduction to Army physical fitness that will serve you well throughout your career. You even get a day at the pool in order to learn how to "survive". If you are a weak or non-swimmer, they are prepared to deal with you in advance, so, don't worry about being thrown into the deep end. This entire course is designed as a fun introduction to the military lifestyle, history, ceremony, and leadership skills. There will be nobody yelling at you, you will not be made to do push-ups until muscle failure, or eat dirt.
 
It wasn't that along ago that constructive credit was granted for OBC/BOLC if one had spent enough time on active duty without having attended. You usually had to do some light paperwork (e.g. write an NCO award), but it reflected the reality of on-the-job military traing that comes with being on active duty. It was a straightforward and common sense approach that worked, so I guess I'm not surprised that the Army changed it.

I was commissioned through ROTC and spent 5 years on active duty before being forced to attend. I can say without exaggeration that my time there accomplished nothing, but it did remove a board certified physician from the hospital for nearly three months.

I understand trying to get medical students there during preclinical years, but interrupting clinical training to go to BOLC is a bad decision. Let people finish their training and reinstitute the CC program. Everybody gets the training they need and everyone is deployable.
 
When I did BOLC I think it was 6-7 weeks in summer 2009. If DCC becomes a new separate required course and BOLC is currently 6 weeks I anticipate that it all boils down to an OER bullet and increasing relevance. More than likely things will be moved out of the BOLC curriculum and into the new DCC one, at the same time BOLC will decrease in weeks and DCC will increase in weeks yet overall everything stayed give or take within a week of previous BOLC course. The items discussed in the above DCC snippet were things we did during my BOLC.

As with everything in the military everything is written in sand. End of the day any future course for medical students will have to be designed in a way that majority of all students could attend during their summer break. This sets in stone a window of time- June, July, August. Money then dictates how long that course will be. At the same time as HPSP you are asked to be on AD for 45 days. I don't know what happens if they ask you to do more if anything. I wonder how any DCC and BOLC will fit within those guidelines.
 
In medicine we like to look at scientific evidence, is there any evidence that the current plan makes a better Army Officer....or how about any that an additional 4 weeks adds any value. Doubt it.

Can't say how SCIENTIFIC it was but, there was a study done it was called Officer Leader Development Study (OLDS) that found:
AMEDD officers are not adequately inducted, inspired, or motivated upon entry into the Army Profession.
Many AMEDD officers are not adequately developed as leaders through military education, training, and assignment experiences.
The emphasis on managing the business of the healthcare system often outweighs the focus on leader development.
AMEDD policies and command selection processes allow some AMEDD officers to be selected for command less experienced and less prepared in the Army Profession than those in the ACC.

I anticipate that it all boils down to an OER bullet and increasing relevance. More than likely things will be moved out of the BOLC curriculum and into the new DCC one, at the same time BOLC will decrease in weeks

The study recommended that there be an additional four weeks of BOLC-A (which became the DCC) in order to augment the training at Fort Sam. It seems like the AMEDD was moving too slowly to create this, the task was turned over to TRADOC. For them it’s another way to justify their existence. The DCC will actually be at Fort Sill CoE in OK. The pilot course is set for this Jun/Jul. There is still ongoing discussions as to the cut-off of when it will be mandatory before going to BOLC, and the “grandfathering” of the HPSP students in the pipeline.

As with everything in the military everything is written in sand.

The OLDS also said "Several statutes, policies, and authorities governing AMEDD officer leader development require improvement" Army G-3 is looking at writing this into regulations.

End of the day any future course for medical students will have to be designed in a way that majority of all students could attend during their summer break. This sets in stone a window of time- June, July, August. Money then dictates how long that course will be. At the same time as HPSP you are asked to be on AD for 45 days. I don't know what happens if they ask you to do more if anything. I wonder how any DCC and BOLC will fit within those guidelines.

Ultimeately, the best is for the DCC to be completed between the end of undergrad and medical school start. The advantage here is that the MEDCOM should be able to sell to big Army that because it is performed prior to the start of graduate school, it should not count as one of the student's ADTs. The 45 day rule is actually written into Title 10 for ADTs, so there is no way around that other than to cut orders for 26 days at DCC, and 19 days at school.
 
AMEDD officers are not adequately inducted, inspired, or motivated upon entry into the Army Profession.

What does that have anything to do with being a competent Army physician??? I bet the inspiration and motivation would increase tenfold if they quit the ridiculous CME funding policy. And how was that measure of "success" validated?


Many AMEDD officers are not adequately developed as leaders through military education, training, and assignment experiences.
The emphasis on managing the business of the healthcare system often outweighs the focus on leader development.

Uh, shouldn't management of the healthcare system be the goal? Not every physician wants to be a leader, why should we force that on people who simply want to be excellent clinicians? Wouldn't that be the best thing for the soldier?

This study sounds like something where they try to shove a square peg (Army medicine) into a round hole (typical Army career progression).

Look, I'm about as pro-milmed as it comes, but this has me scratching my head.

As an aside....we have the money to send everyone to an additional four weeks TAD with what will likely have little impact, but we don't have the money to send them to a week at their specialty 's annual conference or other CME activity that is directly related to the care of a patient. Hmm, something smells rotten.

Wait, I got it, let's do this new course by VTC or online! If it's good enough to maintain and expand my knowledge as a physician it has to be good enough for some leadership training.
 
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AMEDD officers are not adequately inducted, inspired, or motivated upon entry into the Army Profession.

I don't think I've ever read a sentence that made me happier to be out of the military. For any prospective pre-meds reading this, let me translate for you: The Army thinks it's more important for you to function as an officer (be inspired and motivated) than it is for you get your clinical training (residency) on time. A delay in starting your training will chase you all the way through your obligation: you'll start internship late, you'll start the rest of residency late, you'll start your payback later, your obligation will be finished later. You won't be able to start at your civilian job or civilian fellowship on time. All because they value you being "inducted, inspired and motivated".

What a load of festering, fetid BS.
 
And we all know that those who start internship late have an uphill battle when attendings compare them against their peers who have been 'in the system' for a longer period of time. Sometimes lack of systems knowledge is perceived as lack of clinical knowledge/acumen and can have significant negative connotations.
 
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Actually, I find this to be an interesting development. Over 20 years ago I attended one of the then "new" All-Corps OBCs (now known as BOLC) in the era of pushing branch-immaterial leadership, which has culminated in our current Nurse Corps TSG. I'm interested in why this new MC leadership emphasis now rather than doubling down on the branch immaterial concept: more PA's, NP's, dieticians, MSCs as medical staff officers and commanders. For 20 years the physician has been slowly pushed off to the side, more recently being treated as not just a commodity, but a liability. Something else seems to be going on now, and I'm curious about what is really behind this renewed push for MC officer leadership, particularly at the expense of clinical acumen. < so much hate for lack of CME funding > I'm not sure it's just about BOLC attendance; then again, with all the noise that's being made, I'm also starting to wonder why the Army doesn't just stop loss every FP, GS, and Ortho doc for 20 years, send 'em to the Q course, and tell the rest of us to GTFO.

Death by a thousand cuts, like the caissons in the song, just keeps rolling along.
 
Can't say how SCIENTIFIC it was but, there was a study done it was called Officer Leader Development Study (OLDS) that found:
AMEDD officers are not adequately inducted, inspired, or motivated upon entry into the Army Profession.
Many AMEDD officers are not adequately developed as leaders through military education, training, and assignment experiences.
The emphasis on managing the business of the healthcare system often outweighs the focus on leader development.
AMEDD policies and command selection processes allow some AMEDD officers to be selected for command less experienced and less prepared in the Army Profession than those in the ACC.

This is an extremely important post. I hope everyone is taking notes on where patient care fits into the Army's point of view.
 
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Being an attractive military residency candidate is no different than being an attractive civilian residency candidate, by and large.

This is good to hear.

I've heard that having prior service background does help during the residency application process. I wonder how much of a difference will this make? Is it one of the more important criteria, or is it mostly used as a tie-breaker?
 
It gets weighed in. I can only speak for my specific resiency program, but I can definitely tell you that while we might have used prior service for a tie breaker, we would take a better overall candidate 10 times/10. But we were a small program with a large pool of applicants.
 
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Ultimeately, the best is for the DCC to be completed between the end of undergrad and medical school start. The advantage here is that the MEDCOM should be able to sell to big Army that because it is performed prior to the start of graduate school, it should not count as one of the student's ADTs. The 45 day rule is actually written into Title 10 for ADTs, so there is no way around that other than to cut orders for 26 days at DCC, and 19 days at school.

is this possible? or is this one of those "it'd be cool if you could do this instead" sort of things?
Wouldnt that be bad for it to not count as active duty (what I presume ADT to mean)?
 
is this possible? or is this one of those "it'd be cool if you could do this instead" sort of things?
Wouldnt that be bad for it to not count as active duty (what I presume ADT to mean)?

Currently, using ADT is the only way to pay for this, so it counts as one of the four for someone who gets a four years scholarship. IF the recruiters could/would: Get the applicants boarded, selected, scrolled and oathed prior to the start of medical school (by 1 May), the Medical Education office could make the argument as stated.
 
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