Most lucrative specialty

[AsclepiusMD]

Concierge Primary Care / EM in the Hamptons.

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[Law2Doc]

Two words. Bo ... Tox...

 

[NervousNerd]

Psych practice in that largest neurotic pre-med city in continental USA

 

[mednerd1234]

I wonder if primary care docs will get paid more than surgeons in the future bc of the ACA?

 

[Silent Cool]

Which specialties combined with a good sense of business are able to create a multi million dollar practice?.. out of curiosity.

To be perfectly honest with you, any specialty can lend itself to this. The problem with most physicians is that they tend to be non-risk-taking and, as such, don't pursue entrepreneurial opportunities.

Some reasonable opportunities:
1) Urgent care
2) Independent pharmacy
3) Hiring/managing a horde of PAs/midlevels, etc..
4) Owning an ambulatory surgery center (ASC)

Note that all of these come with significant risks, but if you perform reasonable DD, then the risks can be significantly reduced. My recommendation would be first to invest in real estate and use the revenue/income from that to invest in the businesses that I listed above. Most doctors are simply to chicken-$hit or simply business-naive to do so.

good luck.

 

[karayaa]

To be perfectly honest with you, any specialty can lend itself to this. The problem with most physicians is that they tend to be non-risk-taking and, as such, don't pursue entrepreneurial opportunities.

Some reasonable opportunities:
1) Urgent care
2) Independent pharmacy
3) Hiring/managing a horde of PAs/midlevels, etc..
4) Owning an ambulatory surgery center (ASC)

Note that all of these come with significant risks, but if you perform reasonable DD, then the risks can be significantly reduced. My recommendation would be first to invest in real estate and use the revenue/income from that to invest in the businesses that I listed above. Most doctors are simply to chicken-$hit or simply business-naive to do so.

good luck.

5) Owning a diagnostic imaging center (eg MRI), or a free standing radiation oncology treatment center.

Something that I haven't seen mentioned is the ethical issues involved with having a financial stake in referrals/diagnoses/treatments - if you get money when someone gets a surgery for example, you're incentivized to do more surgeries, which creates a conflict of interest.
Conservative care is generally disincentivized by the fee-for-service model. You see this all the time in most private practice already, where you can self-refer for diagnosis/treatment - eg a GI doctor doing colonoscopies, a ophthalmologist doing surgery or injections, etc

So basically, you might make a lot of money, but you might not sleep so well.

 

[Silent Cool]

5) Owning a diagnostic imaging center (eg MRI), or a free standing radiation oncology treatment center.

Something that I haven't seen mentioned is the ethical issues involved with having a financial stake in referrals/diagnoses/treatments - if you get money when someone gets a surgery for example, you're incentivized to do more surgeries, which creates a conflict of interest.
Conservative care is generally disincentivized by the fee-for-service model. You see this all the time in most private practice already, where you can self-refer for diagnosis/treatment - eg a GI doctor doing colonoscopies, a ophthalmologist doing surgery or injections, etc

So basically, you might make a lot of money, but you might not sleep so well.

Agree with you on the imaging center. In fact, there are some (I believe) cash-only imaging centers that make a living on second opinions:

http://www.metismd.com/
https://www.xmri.com/our-services/mri-second-opinion.html?gclid=CPLAhNLw3L8CFYk-Mgod2lUA2g

 

[Silent Cool]

5) Owning a diagnostic imaging center (eg MRI), or a free standing radiation oncology treatment center.

Something that I haven't seen mentioned is the ethical issues involved with having a financial stake in referrals/diagnoses/treatments - if you get money when someone gets a surgery for example, you're incentivized to do more surgeries, which creates a conflict of interest.
Conservative care is generally disincentivized by the fee-for-service model. You see this all the time in most private practice already, where you can self-refer for diagnosis/treatment - eg a GI doctor doing colonoscopies, a ophthalmologist doing surgery or injections, etc

So basically, you might make a lot of money, but you might not sleep so well.

Agreed. Interestingly, this issue applies I think in many ways to dentists--if they see a "lesion" on your teeth, how would you know if it is real? We've all heard stories of dentists doing this--drilling when they shouldn't for the incentive of profit. I went to a dentist once who told me I had 4-5 cavities. I didn't believe it and went to a dentist on Yelp who had 4-5 stars. Sure enough, I had *ZERO* cavities.

 

[karayaa]

Agree with you on the imaging center. In fact, there are some (I believe) cash-only imaging centers that make a living on second opinions:

http://www.metismd.com/
https://www.xmri.com/our-services/mri-second-opinion.html?gclid=CPLAhNLw3L8CFYk-Mgod2lUA2g

They both just looks like moonlighting - they're selling their interprative capabilities directly to the public, but they still have to work for it.

This is more what I was thinking:
http://www.radnet.com/imaging-centers/

And here are some of the concerns with it:
http://www.mlive.com/businessreview/oakland/index.ssf/2009/06/medical_imaging_freestanding_c.html

 

[DermViser]

I wonder if primary care docs will get paid more than surgeons in the future bc of the ACA?

Never. Absolutely never.

 

[RTC19]

Never. Absolutely never.

Agreed.

 

[Silent Cool]

Psych practice in that largest neurotic pre-med city in continental USA

Boston???

 

[Concrete Jungle]

Some plastic surgeons make several million a year before you even account for any operations or procedures they do and have a 7/8-5/6 workday.

 

[Law2Doc]

Some plastic surgeons make several million a year before you even account for any operations or procedures they do...

Meh. You are going to have to explain how a surgeon makes money before accounting for surgeries/procedures. If he's making it from outside businesses, then he probably wasted his time in med school and a long residency and really shouldn't ever touch scalpel because by doing so he creates huge liability for himself. Deep pockets means big lawsuits.

A lot of these posts are starting to sound like "I know a guy" type posts -- talking about an outlier whose success you can never possibly hope to duplicate. Once you are talking about making most of your money from outside ventures, you are basically conceding that medicine was a waste of time for you because you really could have started down these roads years earlier without the degree and residency.

In most cases a doctor won't earn substantial income outside of wage income. Why? Because practicing medicine takes a ton of time, really all of your time. Yes there are a few outliers who have managed it, but there are also guys who have won big on slot machines -- the payout is just frequent enough that everyone "knows a guy" but not frequent enough that it will be you. Starting a side business usually takes more time than you can do in your "spare" time, most new ventures and side businesses fail, and most people aren't going to set aside their lower risk six digit medical practice in hopes of getting something more lucrative but higher risk (and also initially very labor and money intensive) going. Most doctors who start side ventures throw a lot of time and money into these dreams don't make a killing. Some even lose a lot of money.

Look, if you weren't risk averse and were truly interested in starting a business, you really wouldn't or shouldn't have chosen medicine as your path in the first place. If you aren't excited about the prospect of running and managing a Business, and just want the revenue stream, you will typically do very poorly at it and it will fail. So it ends up the very rare individual who succeeds at this. the slot machine winner. the "I know a guy". Probably not even worth talking about if you are about to embark on an intense path like medicine.

 

[Law2Doc]

I wonder if primary care docs will get paid more than surgeons in the future bc of the ACA?

No, the ACA favors NPs and other more affordable options to primary care.

 

[Concrete Jungle]

Meh. You are going to have to explain how a surgeon makes money before accounting for surgeries/procedures. If he's making it from outside businesses, then he probably wasted his time in med school and a long residency and really shouldn't ever touch scalpel because by doing so he creates huge liability for himself. Deep pockets means big lawsuits.

A lot of these posts are starting to sound like "I know a guy" type posts -- talking about an outlier whose success you can never possibly hope to duplicate. Once you are talking about making most of your money from outside ventures, you are basically conceding that medicine was a waste of time for you because you really could have started down these roads years earlier without the degree and residency.

In most cases a doctor won't earn substantial income outside of wage income. Why? Because practicing medicine takes a ton of time, really all of your time. Yes there are a few outliers who have managed it, but there are also guys who have won big on slot machines -- the payout is just frequent enough that everyone "knows a guy" but not frequent enough that it will be you. Starting a side business usually takes more time than you can do in your "spare" time, most new ventures and side businesses fail, and most people aren't going to set aside their lower risk six digit medical practice in hopes of getting something more lucrative but higher risk (and also initially very labor and money intensive) going. Most doctors who start side ventures throw a lot of time and money into these dreams don't make a killing. Some even lose a lot of money.

Look, if you weren't risk averse and were truly interested in starting a business, you really wouldn't or shouldn't have chosen medicine as your path in the first place. If you aren't excited about the prospect of running and managing a Business, and just want the revenue stream, you will typically do very poorly at it and it will fail. So it ends up the very rare individual who succeeds at this. the slot machine winner. the "I know a guy". Probably not even worth talking about if you are about to embark on an intense path like medicine.

The practice can generate revenue without the surgeon through services provided by estheticians, nurse injectors, and depending on the state PAs can do some procedures. There are a host of other revenue streams as well, anti-aging, hair restoration, etc. An esthetician can make six figures with a few certifications, a polished appearance and personality, and strong sales skills. What do you think the practice is making? Of course my statement represents outliers. There are, however, practices with multiple full time nurse injectors and a team of estheticians.

In my major metropolitan area, there are at least 4 practices that meet this criteria with several others that are doing very well by any measure. This is not counting the cosmetic derms. I have worked at a practice like this. I was there for the planning and site building. I was exposed to all aspects of the business and financial records. I know what works and what doesn't. I have experienced the pains with staffing, technology implementation, marketing/pr/advertisements, events, and of course dealing with probably the most needy patient population(semi-serious). It absolutely requires risk tolerance and business acumen, and from my limited experience most doctors possess very little of either.

 

[Law2Doc]

The practice can generate revenue without the surgeon through services provided by estheticians, nurse injectors, and depending on the state PAs can do some procedures. There are a host of other revenue streams as well, anti-aging, hair restoration, etc. An esthetician can make six figures with a few certifications, a polished appearance and personality, and strong sales skills. What do you think the practice is making? Of course my statement represents outliers. There are, however, practices with multiple full time nurse injectors and a team of estheticians.

In my major metropolitan area, there are at least 4 practices that meet this criteria with several others that are doing very well by any measure. This is not counting the cosmetic derms. I have worked at a practice like this. I was there for the planning and site building. I was exposed to all aspects of the business and financial records. I know what works and what doesn't. I have experienced the pains with staffing, technology implementation, marketing/pr/advertisements, events, and of course dealing with probably the most needy patient population(semi-serious). It absolutely requires risk tolerance and business acumen, and from my limited experience most doctors possess very little of either.

4 in a major metro area is essentially zero. The question is how many tried and failed. It's a lot of work to set up and run a side business. Most detract from your main profit source and never turn a profit after years of marketing and administrative expenses. Frankly most people who go the med school and long residency route are cretins when it comes to running a business so they have to spend a ton of money hiring someone to bring that expertise and are lucky if that persons salary is covered by the profits.

 

[SoCal24]

Meh. You are going to have to explain how a surgeon makes money before accounting for surgeries/procedures. If he's making it from outside businesses, then he probably wasted his time in med school and a long residency and really shouldn't ever touch scalpel because by doing so he creates huge liability for himself. Deep pockets means big lawsuits.

A lot of these posts are starting to sound like "I know a guy" type posts -- talking about an outlier whose success you can never possibly hope to duplicate. Once you are talking about making most of your money from outside ventures, you are basically conceding that medicine was a waste of time for you because you really could have started down these roads years earlier without the degree and residency.

In most cases a doctor won't earn substantial income outside of wage income. Why? Because practicing medicine takes a ton of time, really all of your time. Yes there are a few outliers who have managed it, but there are also guys who have won big on slot machines -- the payout is just frequent enough that everyone "knows a guy" but not frequent enough that it will be you. Starting a side business usually takes more time than you can do in your "spare" time, most new ventures and side businesses fail, and most people aren't going to set aside their lower risk six digit medical practice in hopes of getting something more lucrative but higher risk (and also initially very labor and money intensive) going. Most doctors who start side ventures throw a lot of time and money into these dreams don't make a killing. Some even lose a lot of money.

Look, if you weren't risk averse and were truly interested in starting a business, you really wouldn't or shouldn't have chosen medicine as your path in the first place. If you aren't excited about the prospect of running and managing a Business, and just want the revenue stream, you will typically do very poorly at it and it will fail. So it ends up the very rare individual who succeeds at this. the slot machine winner. the "I know a guy". Probably not even worth talking about if you are about to embark on an intense path like medicine.

Law2Doc no offense but it is actually a real possibility if you run your own practice you set your own schedule. For example, my dad is a doctor (25 yrs in the field) he works 3 and 1/2 days a week. 5 years ago, during his off time he was busy getting involved in a certain business. Now the business is thriving and is making a 7 figure income. It wasn't easy but definitely my dad had to spend a lot of time but was worth it. The only way he was able to invest the kind of money into this was because he was earning good money as doctor. Also I live in nation's capital so it cutthroat market for doctors and everyone else. The fact you say most doctor's wont earn a substantial amount of salary is bogus to be honest I can name about 30 doctors (of the top of my head) in this area who are currently involved side business making good money (5 to 7 figure incomes from this). I would go as far that a majority of his colleagues are involved in some sort of a side businesses. There is nothing wrong with being ambitious and getting involved in other area's. Also, if you start your own practice your running a business which requires to be business savvy and have many other skills outside of just practicing medicine to be successful. Imo as a doctor you should get involved in side business's in your late 40's or 50's so you don't have as much responsibility if anything goes wrong.

 

[Sed8&Intub8]

I know a Psychiatrist who opened up a chain of nursing homes for dementia patients. So he makes money when he sees those patients and from their living expenses. He is racking in multi-multi million a year.

 

[NickNaylor]

Law2Doc no offense but it is actually a real possibility if you run your own practice you set your own schedule. For example, my dad is a doctor (25 yrs in the field) he works 3 and 1/2 days a week. 5 years ago, during his off time he was busy getting involved in a certain business. Now the business is thriving and is making a 7 figure income. It wasn't easy but definitely my dad had to spend a lot of time but was worth it. The only way he was able to invest the kind of money into this was because he was earning good money as doctor. Also I live in nation's capital so it cutthroat market for doctors and everyone else. The fact you say most doctor's wont earn a substantial amount of salary is bogus to be honest I can name about 30 doctors (of the top of my head) in this area who are currently involved side business making good money (5 to 7 figure incomes from this). I would go as far that a majority of his colleagues are involved in some sort of a side businesses. There is nothing wrong with being ambitious and getting involved in other area's. Also, if you start your own practice your running a business which requires to be business savvy and have many other skills outside of just practicing medicine to be successful. Imo as a doctor you should get involved in side business's in your late 40's or 50's so you don't have as much responsibility if anything goes wrong.

Your anecdote with 30 people doesn't overrule statistics or really mean anything.

 

[swolebrah]

MD/MBA , if you plan on opening private practices. Don't just say your going to open a private practice and then fail miserably since you have no idea about the business side of things.

 

[SoCal24]

Your anecdote with 30 people doesn't overrule statistics or really mean anything.

Okay it wasn't mean't to be any statistic really......... my point is that you would be surprised how many doctor's around my dad's age (early 50's) are involved in some kind of side business especially in a major metropolitan city. Many doctor's are involved in plenty of things outside of practicing medicine

 

[SoCal24]

MD/MBA , if you plan on opening private practices. Don't just say your going to open a private practice and then fail miserably since you have no idea about the business side of things.

I never said you would fail miserably at all I said you have to be business savvy for your practice to be successful especially now. In a major metropolitan city they are so many established practices already to be successful here you have to some business skills to succeed in markets like this.

 

[AsclepiusMD]

 

[Beargryllz]

If you're looking for $$$, also consider careers in law (see "associate," "partner," and "of counsel" salaries at a large firm), and finance http://resources.onewire.com/indust...essionals/the-highest-paying-jobs-in-finance/ , and business.

Oh you!

 

[Lawgiver]

If anybody here believes simply getting a business degree will give you business sense please stop believing this. It won't. Years of experience will, nothing else.

 

[allantois]

Statistics is not something that matters in these cases. Moreover, there's no statistics on how many doctors failed in their business pursuits but if somebody thinks that they will fail, then they most certainly will. If people in the business world were to rely on statistics that all odds are against them (others have failed, etc etc) there would be no businesses or entrepreneurs.

People on here advocate for exploring one's interests before medical school. In my opinion exploring interests outside of medicine (business/painting/whatever) should never stop regardless of your year in training and whether it's before med school or 20 years after it.

 

[Law2Doc]

Okay it wasn't mean't to be any statistic really......... my point is that you would be surprised how many doctor's around my dad's age (early 50's) are involved in some kind of side business especially in a major metropolitan city. Many doctor's are involved in plenty of things outside of practicing medicine

Um no, you would be surprised how few of these generate any profit or are successful. In my prior life I did transactional law and helped literally HUNDREDS of people try to start side businesses like this. How many do you think were still in business even just one year later? Hint -- you probably have more fingers. You are talking anecdotally - I actually physically helped set a ton of these up.

I get that people want to be able to just launch these side businesses and turn a nice profit on the side, without detracting from their real job, but unless you want to spend a ton of time and money making a business work, it generally won't.

 

[Law2Doc]

MD/MBA , if you plan on opening private practices. Don't just say your going to open a private practice and then fail miserably since you have no idea about the business side of things.

No way. This is big basic misunderstanding on SDN regarding the MBA degree. An MBA isn't a path to learn how to set up and run a small business -- not the point of that degree at all. an MBA is designed to enhance existing business skills. That's why the better schools want you to have a bit of business experience first before applying. (and why most MBA tuition is paid by employers). It's not a professional school like law, medicine, dentistry. The majority of an MBA program is centered on one or more of the following majors: finance, accounting, management, marketing, operations -- not even things you need to worry about in a small business with no profits or employees initially. An MBA is important to move up the ranks in middle management or in business administration or maybe hospital administration. But to start a Business, you are better off just reading a "how to" book and/or hiring a good business lawyer and accountant (usually both). Please don't waste time on a joint degree if this is your goal. Take an undergrad business course and read a book, and then surround yourself with the necessary ancillary personnel. And know you are likely going to fail because you aren't devoting most of your time to this venture if you are also trying to be a doctor.

 

[knv2u]

I wonder if primary care docs will get paid more than surgeons in the future bc of the ACA?

I doubt it. I see primary care becoming threatened by the increasing independence of mid level providers like nurse practitioners and physicians assistants.

 

[greenlion]

(A)
Be a specialist on top of a specialist and market yourself well. Ortho + spine is the obvious answer but there are many possibilities.
i.e. I know a fetal therapy obgyn making between $700-800k and a rei obgyn making at least $1M.

(B)
Be a hybrid doctor+businessman. Could be anything- opening up a chain of PPs, partnering in medical software, co-developing (prob useless) drug, a medical device, writing a bestseller (particularily psych, weight loss, life span), tv appearences, running an investment fund focusing on healthcare, and probably a lot more I haven't thought of.

 

[NervousNerd]

(A)
Be a specialist on top of a specialist and market yourself well. Ortho + spine is the obvious answer but there are many options.
i.e. I know a fetal therapy obgyn making between $700-800k and a rei obgyn making at least $1M.

(B)
Be a hybrid doctor+businessman. Could be anything- opening up a chain of PPs, partnering in medical software, co-developing (prob useless) drug, a medical device, writing a bestseller (particularily psych, weight loss, life span), tv appearences, running an investment fund focusing on healthcare, and probably a lot more I haven't thought of.

B) you described doctor Oz haha

 

[greenlion]

No way. This is big basic misunderstanding on SDN regarding the MBA degree. An MBA isn't a path to learn how to set up and run a small business -- not the point of that degree at all. an MBA is designed to enhance existing business skills. That's why the better schools want you to have a bit of business experience first before applying. (and why most MBA tuition is paid by employers). It's not a professional school like law, medicine, dentistry. The majority of an MBA program is centered on one or more of the following majors: finance, accounting, management, marketing, operations -- not even things you need to worry about in a small business with no profits or employees initially. An MBA is important to move up the ranks in middle management or in business administration or maybe hospital administration. But to start a Business, you are better off just reading a "how to" book and/or hiring a good business lawyer and accountant (usually both). Please don't waste time on a joint degree if this is your goal. Take an undergrad business course and read a book, and then surround yourself with the necessary ancillary personnel. And know you are likely going to fail because you aren't devoting most of your time to this venture if you are also trying to be a doctor.

so very true. I've heard of people say they want to do an MBA so they can be an entrepreneur and I always

 

[didymus]

.....An MBA is important to move up the ranks in middle management or in business administration or maybe hospital administration. But to start a Business, you are better off just reading a "how to" book and/or hiring a good business lawyer and accountant (usually both). Please don't waste time on a joint degree if this is your goal. Take an undergrad business course and read a book, and then surround yourself with the necessary ancillary personnel. And know you are likely going to fail because you aren't devoting most of your time to this venture if you are also trying to be a doctor.

Are you suggesting an individual interested in opening a PP read a book and hire a good business lawyer and accountant? You pointed your advice to someone interested in opening a small business, but does that also apply to PP? I have seen some offerings for MBA/MHA combined programs, and one program I found actually offers a focus in private practice management. What are your thoughts?

 

[hmoactktey]

Law2Doc no offense but it is actually a real possibility if you run your own practice you set your own schedule. For example, my dad is a doctor (25 yrs in the field) he works 3 and 1/2 days a week. 5 years ago, during his off time he was busy getting involved in a certain business. Now the business is thriving and is making a 7 figure income. It wasn't easy but definitely my dad had to spend a lot of time but was worth it. The only way he was able to invest the kind of money into this was because he was earning good money as doctor. Also I live in nation's capital so it cutthroat market for doctors and everyone else. The fact you say most doctor's wont earn a substantial amount of salary is bogus to be honest I can name about 30 doctors (of the top of my head) in this area who are currently involved side business making good money (5 to 7 figure incomes from this). I would go as far that a majority of his colleagues are involved in some sort of a side businesses. There is nothing wrong with being ambitious and getting involved in other area's. Also, if you start your own practice your running a business which requires to be business savvy and have many other skills outside of just practicing medicine to be successful. Imo as a doctor you should get involved in side business's in your late 40's or 50's so you don't have as much responsibility if anything goes wrong.

IDGAF if someone is making $10,000 from a side business.

 

[Law2Doc]

Are you suggesting an individual interested in opening a PP read a book and hire a good business lawyer and accountant? You pointed your advice to someone interested in opening a small business, but does that also apply to PP? I have seen some offerings for MBA/MHA combined programs, and one program I found actually offers a focus in private practice management. What are your thoughts?

I'm saying an MBA for running a small business is like trying to swat flies with a chain saw. A very powerful tool that has little use for the task at hand. Steer clear, even if they have course offerings that sound close to applicable -- you will get much more out of a how-to book and an hour with a lawyer/accountant. The MBA isn't meant for this purpose and it's a waste to get a watered down one that is trying to satisfy all comers.

 

[Gauss44]

In the off-chance anyone here is just interested in making money, there's some interesting ideas here as well: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1375317/?start=0

 

[didymus]

I'm saying an MBA for running a small business is like trying to swat flies with a chain saw. A very powerful tool that has little use for the task at hand. Steer clear, even if they have course offerings that sound close to applicable -- you will get much more out of a how-to book and an hour with a lawyer/accountant. The MBA isn't meant for this purpose and it's a waste to get a watered down one that is trying to satisfy all comers.

You keep mentioning these books. Any recommendations?

 

[SoCal24]

Um no, you would be surprised how few of these generate any profit or are successful. In my prior life I did transactional law and helped literally HUNDREDS of people try to start side businesses like this. How many do you think were still in business even just one year later? Hint -- you probably have more fingers. You are talking anecdotally - I actually physically helped set a ton of these up.

I get that people want to be able to just launch these side businesses and turn a nice profit on the side, without detracting from their real job, but unless you want to spend a ton of time and money making a business work, it generally won't.

A few years ago when my Dad became involved in this huge undertaking I was there for every step. I could see how stressful it is on top of managing a successful practice pumping huge streams of money into this hoping it would work. I spend a lot of time helping him from the planning stage till it was completed then helping managing it. I'm not saying that every business venture a doctor will undertake will be successful but the area I live in northern VA it seems that way. Living here is very very expensive and the lifestyle my dad's colleagues live is not possible on even a doctor's salary (House, cars, clothes, etc....). Even with a doctor's salary they would still be living a very modest lifestyle. A lavish lifestyle which I've seen doctor's living countless times are racking in money from some sort of business's to afford this way of living. For my parent's now this will business now will provide a steady 7 figure income for the rest of their lives. I agree with you that you need to pump a lot of money and into these business to have the returns I'm talking about but it is possible and have seen it on numerously.

 

[Law2Doc]

A few years ago when my Dad became involved in this huge undertaking I was there for every step. I could see how stressful it is on top of managing a successful practice pumping huge streams of money into this hoping it would work. I spend a lot of time helping him from the planning stage till it was completed then helping managing it. I'm not saying that every business venture a doctor will undertake will be successful but the area I live in northern VA it seems that way. Living here is very very expensive and the lifestyle my dad's colleagues live is not possible on even a doctor's salary (House, cars, clothes, etc....). Even with a doctor's salary they would still be living a very modest lifestyle. A lavish lifestyle which I've seen doctor's living countless times are racking in money from some sort of business's to afford this way of living. For my parent's now this will business now will provide a steady 7 figure income for the rest of their lives. I agree with you that you need to pump a lot of money and into these business to have the returns I'm talking about but it is possible and have seen it on numerously.

Again, most fail. I've worked with hundreds. That you know a success story or two or that it seems like everyone you know was successful, doesn't change the odds. It's not something you can bank on.

 

[Concrete Jungle]

Again, most fail. I've worked with hundreds. That you know a success story or two or that it seems like everyone you know was successful, doesn't change the odds. It's not something you can bank on.

It absolutely changes the odds. It is a conditional probability. He has direct experience with the planning, starting, and execution of a successful business. He probably has a large network he can draw from for information and advice. This is probably the #1 predictor for success. You are suggesting that some random probability is assigned to each person that starts a business, regardless of circumstance.

Having a mindset that something shouldn't be undertaken because it is not bankable is a poor approach. Everything in business carries varying degrees of risk vs. reward. In the private practice startup I am involved in we use risk models for almost every decision with multiple permutations. Nothing is bankable, sometimes the things we are confident will work don't. At the end of the day most of are decisions are smart because we did the due diligence.

You suggest a lawyer and accountant coupled with book reading will help. In my experience a lawyer and accountant help you navigate the legal and financial landscape. Unless you are suggesting a lawyer helps your business work? Then what does it say that the vast majority of your clients failed.

 

[Law2Doc]

It absolutely changes the odds. It is a conditional probability. He has direct experience with the planning, starting, and execution of a successful business. He probably has a large network he can draw from for information and advice. This is probably the #1 predictor for success. You are suggesting that some random probability is assigned to each person that starts a business, regardless of circumstance.

Having a mindset that something shouldn't be undertaken because it is not bankable is a poor approach. Everything in business carries varying degrees of risk vs. reward. In the private practice startup I am involved in we use risk models for almost every decision with multiple permutations. Nothing is bankable, sometimes the things we are confident will work don't. At the end of the day most of are decisions are smart because we did the due diligence.

You suggest a lawyer and accountant coupled with book reading will help. In my experience a lawyer and accountant help you navigate the legal and financial landscape. Unless you are suggesting a lawyer helps your business work? Then what does it say that the vast majority of your clients failed.

You aren't understanding me. Most small businesses fail. That is true across the US and over history. Those that are successful inevitably require a ton of time in the early years. Physicians are people who almost by definition don't have the time to do this. So most are doomed to fail. On top of this most doctors are really bad at business to boot. There are two questions here -- how do you get the information needed to not be too naive to try. The answer to that is read a book or two and sit down with a professional who can help you start (start, not actually run the business day to day). The next question is do you have the time to spend to make this a success (assuming it's a decent idea in a place with demand). For that nobody can help you. You talk of due diligence, but this is a time intense process. Someone working at a job 60 hours a week can't be at another for an additional 50 -- doesn't compute. Ad that's why it fails. Again, some don't, but MOST do. And most cost you a small fortune before you learn you are going to fail. So this is a low percentage play and you'd have to be the rare individual for this to be a good idea.

 

[DermViser]

Law2Doc no offense but it is actually a real possibility if you run your own practice you set your own schedule. For example, my dad is a doctor (25 yrs in the field) he works 3 and 1/2 days a week. 5 years ago, during his off time he was busy getting involved in a certain business. Now the business is thriving and is making a 7 figure income. It wasn't easy but definitely my dad had to spend a lot of time but was worth it. The only way he was able to invest the kind of money into this was because he was earning good money as doctor. Also I live in nation's capital so it cutthroat market for doctors and everyone else. The fact you say most doctor's wont earn a substantial amount of salary is bogus to be honest I can name about 30 doctors (of the top of my head) in this area who are currently involved side business making good money (5 to 7 figure incomes from this). I would go as far that a majority of his colleagues are involved in some sort of a side businesses. There is nothing wrong with being ambitious and getting involved in other area's. Also, if you start your own practice your running a business which requires to be business savvy and have many other skills outside of just practicing medicine to be successful. Imo as a doctor you should get involved in side business's in your late 40's or 50's so you don't have as much responsibility if anything goes wrong.

I love anecdotes.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I love anecdotes.

30 doctors, bro. 30! That's like half the doctors in the US. And don't even get him started on the ones NOT off the top of his head.


Edit: I've got two words for some of the people in this thread: Survivor. Bias.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I know a Psychiatrist who opened up a chain of nursing homes for dementia patients. So he makes money when he sees those patients and from their living expenses. He is racking in multi-multi million a year.

You just gave me a great idea...

 

[moisne]

Be the surgeon that made Kim Kardashian's butt and do a few more celebrities plastic surgery = millionaire business in no time.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

30 doctors, bro. 30! That's like half the doctors in the US. And don't even get him started on the ones NOT off the top of his head.


Edit: I've got two words for some of the people in this thread: Survivor. Bias.

C'mon man. Give SoCal24 some credit. How often do posters provide evidence that includes 30 people?! It's usually 3-4 = a scientific law.

 

[SoCal24]

30 doctors, bro. 30! That's like half the doctors in the US. And don't even get him started on the ones NOT off the top of his head.


Edit: I've got two words for some of the people in this thread: Survivor. Bias.

Yes because thats what I clearly meant. A lot of doctor's in my area are involved in other business's which is what I clearly said above. They would not afford to be living this lavish lifestyle without it. I never said this is apparent across the US but only where I live.

 

[SoCal24]

C'mon man. Give SoCal24 some credit. How often do posters provide evidence that includes 30 people?! It's usually 3-4 = a scientific law.

Yes that is what I clearly mean't grow up. In my area it is apparent doctor's have become successful opening other business thats all. Never said this is across the US.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Yes that is what I clearly mean't grow up. In my area it is apparent doctor's have become successful opening other business thats all. Never said this is across the US.

I wasn't implying that you were referring to the entire US. I actually thought your post was informative.

I sometimes give examples from my immediate area and I tend to forget that it's vastly different from a lot of places.