MS and Psy.D.

[Pragma]

this is one of my beefs with psych- we spend tons of time advocating for people (nothing wrong with that) and very little time advocating for our worth (both in terms of compensation and others encroaching on our field).

The neuro folk probably does a better job cause they don't have as many "I wanna be a therapist and help people and I don't care how much money I make because that would be selfish and uncaring" types. i wonder if there is a correlation between research is icky and money is icky?

While one has to consider cost of living when they think about salary, I still am mind-boggled by what people accept at UCCs.

Some of it has to do with students entering the field probably not knowing what to expect. We get paid little as graduate students and as interns/fellows, and for unfunded programs some people are used to getting paid nothing at all for awhile. So to make the transition to the real job market, you need to have information to guide your negotiations and expectations. I had mentors that were able to help me out at that stage, but there wasn't a formal mechanism where I could learn about things like private practice splits, AAUP regional data for faculty positions, common RVU scenarios, negotiating strategies, federal salary tables and locality adjustments, etc. That had to be done on my own with guidance I sought out proactively.

The result for me was getting paid what I am worth (albeit between two positions that offer flexibility). I have no bitterness, am comfortable, take vacations, and enjoy my life. But if I hadn't reached out, I probably would have been forced to just accept an offer and deal with it. Programs really should formalize information about jobs and salary more than they do already, but not overly so because people also need to learn to advocate for themselves and seek information. Those are the skills you need in the real world to understand how to manage politics and negotiate effectively. I'd hate for some FSPS to charge students an arm and a leg for another class about how to negotiate. That comes through mentoring and experience.

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[bmedclinic]

Definitely, at least not in any unified way. I think Neuro has done a great advocacy job in recent years, but we're still a minority of the field overall. APAPO could be stronger, but they've suffered from membership decline from the APA

that's the other half of the problem. Perhaps im out of line, but last I checked APAPO and the like where fruitlessly chasing after RxP.

 

[WisNeuro]

that's the other half of the problem. Perhaps im out of line, but last I checked APAPO and the like where fruitlessly chasing after RxP.

Merely one of their items of action, and actually a lesser one. Some would have you believe that it's all they do, when it's far from the case. They are much more active in medicare reimbursement rates and adding psychologists to the physician designation in medicare.

 

[bmedclinic]

Merely one of their items of action, and actually a lesser one. Some would have you believe that it's all they do, when it's far from the case. They are much more active in medicare reimbursement rates and adding psychologists to the physician designation in medicare.

good, then I'm glad I'm mistaken. I stopped paying attention a while ago, but it seemed then that all I heard about was RxP and I got the impression, at least that they were putting all eggs in one basket.

 

[WisNeuro]

good, then I'm glad I'm mistaken. I stopped paying attention a while ago, but it seemed then that all I heard about was RxP and I got the impression, at least that they were putting all eggs in one basket.

Nope, just a narrative forwarded because of an agenda. APAPO technically represents something like 100k psychologists in the US. They have an array of items they advocate and lobby for, understandably, they will not 100% align with every single psychologist. I'm ok with that. I think they've been taking steps to clear up some past unfortunate communication problems. And, their main lobby items (physician definition and reimbursement rates) happen to be the ones that I support and that neuropsych has been advocating for some time (thank you Tony Puente).

 

[Ollie123]

While one has to consider cost of living when they think about salary, I still am mind-boggled by what people accept at UCCs.

The one I prac'd at had licensed psychologists several years out who were earning 35-40k/year. That is lower than any post-doc I saw. I just can't imagine why anyone would consider it unless they were independently wealthy or had no other options. It wasn't even that "cush" given the increased patient volume in recent years (though I do recall spending 20 minutes sitting in silence during one group supervision so we would "feel like we had space to talk" ). Money is far from everything but my goodness that is an abysmal salary...

 

[futureapppsy2]

APAPO also got bad press (and sued) for not making it clear to APA member applicants that the practice fee to support APAPO was optional and not required. They lost said lawsuit.