MS3 with two big red flags. Should i give up EM?

[jordans100]

Currenty allopathic MS3. Step 1: 227. However I remediated 1 class in MS1 and failed a OB shelf but was allowed a retake and passed it. Should I give up EM? Im already convinced I should just asking for good advice.

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[deleted284725]

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[Angry Birds]

I don't think you're SOL just based on that. Apply widely. Do well on your EM externships.

 

[Psai]

I'm a US allopathic M4 applying EM with a step 1 in the 220s and a step 2 in the 240s with no red flags (nothing below a B/HP in med school) and I'm currently sitting at only 4 interviews and a bunch of waitlists out of 62 apps. I know several other guys with similar or better stats that are between 4-7 invites. I'm expecting to get several more as wait lists move but it's clear that EM is getting more competitive. I think you could still apply successfully next year but I would apply for a lot of programs and apply heavily in the midwest and at less desirable locations, take step 2 early, and have a back up plan. Of course this is anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt. Hopefully it helps though.

Also apply for aways as early as possible, which means you should start getting your vaccines/titers squared away in the next couple of months.

Damn bro that sucks

 

[mrcoolice]

Currenty allopathic MS3. Step 1: 227. However I remediated 1 class in MS1 and failed a OB shelf but was allowed a retake and passed it. Should I give up EM? Im already convinced I should just asking for good advice.

You're gucci bro

 

[jordans100]

Thanks everyone. If anybody has anymore advice Im all ears. Please do not try to give me hope when there is none. If I don't have a chance, please tell me so I can prepare to do another field. I really want to do EM but just afraid that it might be too competitive.

 

[deleted284725]

You're gucci bro, I have lower stats than Trazor and I'm sitting at 16 invites. Just be prepared to explain and kick ass on Step 2.

Yeah, sounds like you applied to the appropriate amount. It's amazing because my adviser said 40 would be plenty, I applied to 62, and I'm still just sitting on a bunch of wait lists. The other guys I know in the same boat also applied to fewer then me. In hindsight I should have applied to 80+ and thrown in a few more at less desirable locations too. Oh well, I'm on enough wait lists that I should hopefully get up to 8 which is a pretty solid match %.

 

[gogodre]

Wtf is a gucci?

 

[gman33]

I failed my first class of med school.
It seemed like the end of the world at the time.
Did around average from that point, with average steps.

Applied to a bunch of places, matched at a good program.
Did well in residency and now have a good job.

Just do the best you can. Take extra time for Step 2 if needed and just keep plugging away.
Apply very broadly and maybe consider a backup plan.

Good luck.

 

[Bojack Horseman]

You should try to do as many residency-associated EM rotations as possible and excel on them. Try to get 3-4 strong SLOEs. Pick your rotations wisely as well... For example, rotate somewhere with a lot of residency slots to increase your odds of matching. If you impress during an away at a program with 18 slots your odds of matching are probably higher than a place with 8 spots. Rotate in locations that aren't highly desirable places to live. Etc.

 

[Birdstrike]

Currenty allopathic MS3. Step 1: 227. However I remediated 1 class in MS1 and failed a OB shelf but was allowed a retake and passed it. Should I give up EM? Im already convinced I should just asking for good advice.

Never give up. Never give up. NEVER GIVE UP.


That being said, if you have another better option: promptly give the hell up.

 

[Transmogrifier]

Take Step 2 early enough for your score to go out with your application. Do an away rotation early enough to have a SLOR from somewhere besides your own school in time for applications to go out. Make sure the aways are at less competitive places. All hope is not lost.

 

[gro2001]

Currenty allopathic MS3. Step 1: 227. However I remediated 1 class in MS1 and failed a OB shelf but was allowed a retake and passed it. Should I give up EM? Im already convinced I should just asking for good advice.

The whole process is random enough that I wouldn't be surprised of a result either way in your case. Certainly people with more solid applications have failed to match and people with worse applications have slipped through. I think over all, it is still possible to match in EM for you. You can maximize your chances with the following:

1) Arrange as many EM rotations as you can. Most people do 2-3. You must do at least that many. If your school sets some sort of limit, try to do quasi-EM rotations on top of that limit (ultrasound, toxicology/poison control, etc).

2) Take Step II super seriously. Like, for real. You've pretty much used up your extra lives, so this has to be good. Take extra time if you can. Study your but off. Whatever you did to prepare for Step I, double that effort for Step II. People will tell you it's a much easier test and does not require as much preparation as Step I, but this is a luxury you no longer have.

3) When it comes time to apply, send out A LOT of applications off the bat. Like >60. Maybe >80. Make sure you apply widely, both in terms of geography as well as competitiveness.

4) When it comes time to interview, don't make excuses for your past performance. Hearing of extenuating circumstances that keep happening to candidates is a red flag in itself.



Whether you match or not, update this thread with the results so it can serve as a resource to future medical students in a similar situation. you benefited from the advice of this forum, so pay it forward.

 

[two guys]

You still have a perfectly fine shot at matching. EM probably puts lower emphasis on preclinical grades and shelf exams than any other specialty. They will look over a lot of that IF you can prove that you're a good fit somewhere and clinically sound.

So you really need to ask your peers and self if you're going to be someone to get great letters during your aways. That's a hard question to answer, but look around at your peers. I'm sure you've met some that are too: competitive, queit, enthusiastic, non-enthusiastic, etc. I'm sure you've met one or two that are clearly smart, humble, give a crap about patients and have some hustle all while not being annoying or competitive to their peers. If you're one of these folks you will be just fine. If not, yes you are taking a chance.

 

[mrcoolice]

Yeah, sounds like you applied to the appropriate amount. It's amazing because my adviser said 40 would be plenty, I applied to 62, and I'm still just sitting on a bunch of wait lists. The other guys I know in the same boat also applied to fewer then me. In hindsight I should have applied to 80+ and thrown in a few more at less desirable locations too. Oh well, I'm on enough wait lists that I should hopefully get up to 8 which is a pretty solid match %.

Trazor, I'm sorry. That wasn't very humble of me. I agree that applying to a few more programs in less desirable locations helped me get to 15. I'm rooting for you and I find it peculiar you haven't been as successful as your application would suggest.

 

[RainbowOtterz]

Trazor, I'm sorry. That wasn't very humble of me. I agree that applying to a few more programs in less desirable locations helped me get to 15. I'm rooting for you and I find it peculiar you haven't been as successful as your application would suggest.

Trazor is not the only one. No red flags on my app per an outside source, "solid with no red flags". 246 step 1 with a recently submitted 242 step 2. Half As and half B's throughout clinical and preclinical. Applied to 42 programs and per one advisor a tad too high though. At this point I have 6 interviews. What is happening I don't know. If I could go back I'd apply to more and a few in less desirable places.

 

[jordans100]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I really appreciate it

 

[alpinism]

Trazor is not the only one. No red flags on my app per an outside source, "solid with no red flags". 246 step 1 with a recently submitted 242 step 2. Half As and half B's throughout clinical and preclinical. Applied to 42 programs and per one advisor a tad too high though. At this point I have 6 interviews. What is happening I don't know. If I could go back I'd apply to more and a few in less desirable places.

If you truly have no red flags then its probably your residency list.

Over 240 steps with good grades means you should have at least 10-15 at this point.

The only other issue might be if you have average ECs with nothing unique to "stand out" and applied to mostly competitive programs in "highly desirable" locations.

Some places literally get hundreds of apps with 240+ and good grades so they have to look at other criteria to decide on who to interview.

 

[EDParallax]

Trazor is not the only one. No red flags on my app per an outside source, "solid with no red flags". 246 step 1 with a recently submitted 242 step 2. Half As and half B's throughout clinical and preclinical. Applied to 42 programs and per one advisor a tad too high though. At this point I have 6 interviews. What is happening I don't know. If I could go back I'd apply to more and a few in less desirable places.

What I don't understand is why people are discouraged from applying to as many programs as they are comfortable? As in, why is 42 too many?

Because you know what is worse than borrowing extra money for the applications? Scrambling. Or soap... whatever you call it now. =)

 

[Psai]

What I don't understand is why people are discouraged from applying to as many programs as they are comfortable? As in, why is 42 too many?

Because you know what is worse than borrowing extra money for the applications? Scrambling. Or soap... whatever you call it now. =)

Because it's a waste of resources for both sides to have a thousand applications for 20 spots when you know you don't want to go there but added a program as a safety. Just look at ENT, no one bats an eye at sending 70 applications but who does that really help?

 

[EDParallax]

Because it's a waste of resources for both sides to have a thousand applications for 20 spots when you know you don't want to go there but added a program as a safety. Just look at ENT, no one bats an eye at sending 70 applications but who does that really help?

That I understand, but when people aren't getting enough interviews somewhere the numbers are off. (Barring red flags)

 

[gro2001]

That I understand, but when people aren't getting enough interviews somewhere the numbers are off. (Barring red flags)

It's become an an application arms race of sorts. People hear that the 'average' number to apply to last year was 40, so they all throw in an extra 10 or so applications this year. Now the average number of applications is 50.