MSTP Choices

[drjekyll01]

Hi all,

Longtime fan of SDN, but first time posting. This past year I interviewed for MSTPs and was lucky enough to be accepted into Stanford, Hopkins and Columbia (my 3 favorites when interviewing). I am currently studying abroad, so I probably won't be able to do the revisit weekends.

I really like the idea of living in NYC, and I have friends/family in the area. I think Columbia has a phenomenal program, but doesn't perhaps have quite the same breadth of faculty and resources as Stanford or Hopkins (I have research interests in cancer biology/tumor metabolism, but am open to pursuing another field).

MSTPers, do you think it is a mistake to choose Columbia over Stanford/Hopkins, primarily because of location? I know that going to Columbia would not limit my future career options, yet at first glance I am a little more excited by the research at Stan/JHU. On the other hand, I worry that I may feel a bit isolated in Palo Alto or Baltimore--seeing old friends and family somewhat regularly is important to me.

Really appreciate any thoughts/experiences that anyone has had with these programs, or the MD/PhD path in general. I am humbled and excited to be in this position, and know that any of these options will be a great experience.

P.S. apologies if I have posted in an incorrect format or in the wrong forum...

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[eteshoe]

Hey there,

You really can't go wrong with any of these schools. If you want to be near family/friends then I would go with Columbia. Then after 8-10 yrs in NYC, you may be ready to GTFO of the state and you could do residency in the west coast or wherever. Research is going nowhere. If by going to Stanford, you get exposure to the 'coolest' research but you're miserable the whole time, then it's really not worth it, especially on this path. You can always come to love a research topic (until you've been doing it so long that that opinion changes lol), so I would pick the location in which you think you'd most likely succeed.

 

[Fencer]

Agree

 

[Summerlands]

Hi,

I'm a fellow applicant, so I certainly don't have the perspective of hindsight to advise you, but your post really resonated with me, enough so that I was inspired to come out of lurkdom to give my thoughts.

The simple, but slightly cop-out answer to your question, is to say that there are a lot of factors that vary between programs (location, strength of research in your chosen field, variety of clinical opportunities, cost of living, level of support given to MD/PhD students etc.), and you have to figure out which factor is most important to you. In a perfect world, there would be a single program that tops your list with regard to all factors, but as you've already experienced, that's not always (or perhaps quite rarely) the case. If proximity to loved ones is most important to you, then pick Columbia. As a wise MSTP student once told me, you're the one that's going to have to live with your decision to commit to a program for 7+ years, so think deeply about what matters most to you, and go from there. You'll never have to justify that decision to your classmates, but you will have to justify that decision to yourself, especially when the going gets tough.

The trickier question that I think you've also alluded to is 'well, which factor really matters?' I would a) direct you back to the former paragraph (read: you know yourself better than randos on the internet do), and b) mention that a number of current MSTP students I spoke with mentioned that the most important factor in their decision was the importance of having a meaningful support network close by. So you shouldn't think that you're doing something that few others would do in picking a program that's in the location you want, but doesn't quite hit the spot with regard to research or whatever.

I think I will also be facing a similar decision - a great program with awesome research in a location I love, where family is vs. an amazing program with similarly awesome research, and a much better MD/PhD infrastructure, but in a location I've never lived in before that's significantly further from family. I still haven't decided what factor is most important to me, but I've been mulling this over a lot. I'd also love to hear the perspective of any other current applicants/students/alums.

 

[darkpassenger]

Hi,

I'm a student at Columbia and I was once in your position choosing between those schools. First of all, they are all great schools and congrats on getting accepted to all 3 of them! When I was in your shoes I had a hard time deciding which factor was most important- research, location, and "feel" of the program. You may be right that Columbia is weaker than the others with regards to cancer research, but as long as there are at least 2 or 3 labs you can see yourself in that shouldn't be a deal breaker. Location isn't something I considered too strongly, but it really does make a difference. Where you end up is where you'll spend the next 7-8 years of your life, and the 3 cities you're looking at couldn't be more different. I have a decent number of friends in NYC and its great to get off campus and see them every so often, whereas in Baltimore or Palo Alto I'd probably be stuck in the med school bubble.

In the end it comes down to how much value you place on research vs. quality of life. If you value being close to family/friends then I would seriously consider that when making this decision. As you pointed out, your career options won't be limited by any of those schools, so its important to think about how happy you'll be outside of school/research. Good luck with your decision, and feel free to PM me if you want to talk more about Columbia.

 

[darthaxolotl]

Hi drjekyll01 - first off, congrats! It's great to have the choice you are making. I'll echo what the others have said, but I have a few other thoughts as well:

Consider that during your MSTP that you'll be in graduate school sandwiched between your medical school - so that when you graduate you'll be out of the lab for ~2 years during rotations and transitioning to residency; you may then be out of lab for ~2-5 years. Research will move and change so much in the time that you are out that, you'll need to adapt from what you did in graduate school anyway as you start your career. Thus, while your scientific thinking development will be very important, maybe the particular work you do might not be, unless you do something exceptional.

If there are 5-6 faculty members doing work you could be interested in, that's a critical mass in my mind (in case 1-2 leave). Plus, going to Columbia vs JHU or Stanford won't limit your career options at all - any of the three would be at the top tier, the differentiator will be your work in particular.

Also - don't underestimate friends and family. I know I'll be making my choice with my family in mind - 7-8 years in your twenties (if you are a traditional applicant) is an important and long time! You'll want the non-scientist/doctor support net. As for the city, everyone else is right - NYC far, far, far outstrips either Baltimore, or especially Palo Alto in terms of opportunities and energy, but that may not be for everyone (I'm not much of a city person myself).

The comforting fact is that you cannot go wrong with your decision, and that you'll rationalize your choice wherever you go anyway! Again, congrats.

 

[carpediem22]

FWIW, I met a girl along the interview trail who turned down Harvard MSTP for a top 10 program that is not ranked as highly as Stanford, Columbia, or Hopkins... all because of family and proximity to her loved ones. She didn't seem to regret it one bit.

 

[Neuronix]

My advice is at second look, try to identify a few (preferably 3+) labs that seem like exciting places for you to do your PhD. If you can do that, you're set. Don't worry about anything else. They are all solid programs. Location preferences are legitimate.

 

[drjekyll01]

Thanks for the responses. Does anyone have any comments on the NYU MSTP? I think there is a lot of exciting research going on there, and it is in a wonderful area. Also I liked the med school vibe when I visited. However, the school is generally less well regarded than Columbia/Stanford/Hopkins etc....whatever that is worth.

 

[eteshoe]

Thanks for the responses. Does anyone have any comments on the NYU MSTP? I think there is a lot of exciting research going on there, and it is in a wonderful area. Also I liked the med school vibe when I visited. However, the school is generally less well regarded than Columbia/Stanford/Hopkins etc....whatever that is worth.

I thought NYU is top 20 or something like that. If you like the research going on there and it's close to family/friends, then you'll be more motivated to succeed. I wouldn't imagine NYU would stop you from getting into future residencies as long as you do well on all the necessary med school things (step scores, pre-clinical and clinical grades, etc).

 

[einsteinstoe]

Yes, NYU is currently ranked #11 but I suspect this may have something to do with government funding received after Hurricane Sandy. They are certainly top 20 but the current ranking may be somewhat inflated. I recently graduated from NYU and can give a little insight about NYC schools.

First, all Manhattan MSTPs are phenomenal and you get out of them what you put in. I've heard negative things about Cornell being a hostile environment research-wise but that is second-hand info. As for Columbia, their students return to the wards in January, which really screws with the residency application process.

As for NYU, I liked to think about the program as the PhD portion and the MD portion because the school viewed you as either an MD or PhD, depending on what you were working on. Again, research is very good in a select few labs, however I do wish the institution as a whole was more collaborative. Again, you will get out of it what you put in.

As for NYU's MD program, it is hands-down among the best. The curriculum was revamped fro the better; I believe they initiated a novel 3-year MD program recently. All students get plenty of hands-on experience and world-class teaching from attendings and residents who love to get students involved. Many of my residency interviewers (at institutions like Brigham, MGH, UCSF, Stanford, UW, Duke, UPenn, JHU) were excited to interview us and commented on how fantastic and well-trained NYU MD students are. I wouldn't trade my training there for anything. I highly doubt the MD training is much different from other top institutions.

The MSTP has had better days, namely when David Roth was Director. When I was finishing up at NYU, most, if not all, upper classmen were disenchanted by the lack of professionalism and support of the MSTP Director. The students are certainly bright and top-notch but, from what I hear from friends still there, the program has been in gradual decline since. What you won't hear about are the few cases of students having to withdraw or asked to leave. (You should ask about this everywhere, though.) Most students who are aware of the inner workings of the NYU MSTP view the director as a title-loving person who does not work to improve the program or, frankly, care for the students. He does a lot of talking, but does not walk the walk. In the past, he held (maybe) semi-annual town halls to listen to students' concerns, but with little observable effect from the students' perspective, which showed he remains quite out of touch. He was mostly all about his title and how the program "appears" superficially to the outside world. With that being said, the program is very good at putting out some exceptional, young physician scientists.

And, of course, the NYC is the best city in the US.

My advice is to follow where you think you can get the best research experience/training. But (!!!) keep in mind WHERE you want to live for EIGHT years (it's a long road) and how much SUPPORT you will get (which you should want as it makes your life so much better) from the school, program, and staff. Don't worry about residency placement. At this level, everyone gets one of their top 3 choices at top-ranking programs.

Good luck!