I am a non-traditional older student, who decided to go back to school and follow my dreams. I am working on my BA in Psychology and I am hoping to eventually get a PhD in Clinical Psychology, but given that I am older and I may need to work, I thought about applying and getting a MSW and then appy to a Clinical Psychology PhD program. I have heard that having a Masters can make you less desirable to a PhD program and I am concerned about my age as well going up against younger applicants. That is why I keep thinking of the MSW and then going for the PhD. I would appreciate any advice or tips. I wont have to start applying till the end of next year, but I need to be prepared. Thanks again.
Hi Velvetkiss,
PhDs in clinical psychology are extremely difficult to get in to. If you do not have a GRE higher than 1250, GPA of 3.5 or higher, a couple semesters of experience in a high profile professor's lab, and even a publicaiton now, your chances are not very good. Many qualified applicants such as yourself and others are rejected becasue there are so little spots and so many applicants. One has to be exceptional in every way to even be considered for an interview in a PhD clinical program. Getting an MSW vs a PhD/PsyD depends on your career goals.
If your goal is to provide psychotherapy (any theoretical orientation such as CBT, psychodynamic, strict behavioral, etc) and psychotherapy only as an independent practitioner (e.g. you can practice on your own without supervision eventually), then get an MSW. I have an MSW and now am going for a PsyD in a University based PsyD program. Clinical social workers are the highest paid master's level clinicians. I live on the east coast in the American Southeast/Mid Atlantic. Where I am from, only licesned clinical social workers (LICSW) can practice independently. Those with a master's in counseling, marriage and family therapy, or MA in clinical psyc cannot practice independently (e.g. they must always be under supervision of a doctoral level provider). Now this is where I live. Some states have a licensed mental health counselor (LMHC). I am not sure if LMHCs can practice independently or not in the states that have them.
I applied for clinical psychology programs and was rejected from everywhere, so I got an MSW becasue clinical social workers provide therapy as an independent practitioner and make only about $1 less than a licensed psychologist providing therapy. A friend of mine who is a licesed professional counselor (LPC) told me that LICSWs are the top of the food chain for masters level providers. If you decide on an MSW, make sure you pick the right program. Make sure it has adequate training in clinical social work. Do not choose a generalist program, because a generalist pogram makes you take courses in social policy and other crap that have nothing to do with therapy. Make sure that the program provides adequate psychotherapy courses and practicum in psychotherapy. My MSW program was a generalist program and even though I am eligible for licensure as a clinical social worker, the courses were not related to psycotherapy. I got a basic "this is this type of therapy, this is that type, etc) and a breif therapy course. None of my courses transferred into my doc program. So be careful when choosing an MSW program. VCU, University of Michigan, and, Michigan state have clinical social work programs. Also, social work is a politically charged field and they bring politics into the classroom in inappropriate ways (e.g. they are EXTREMELY liberal in social work, making moderates and conservatives feel unable to speak up in class). There is a trade off between psyc and an MSW. Social work views mental health in a very different way than we do in psychology.
If you want to do any kind of testing (e.g. IQ testing, achievement testing, psycholoigcal evaluaitons) in addition to therapy, then a doctorate in psychology is required. West Virginia allows masters level licensure as a licensed psychologist, but WV is the only state that does this. All other states require a doctorate in clinical and sometimes counseling psychology for licesnure and practice.
Determining the type of doctorate to get will depend on your career goals. If you want to do research and teach in a large division 1 research institution (e.g. any large state university such as Ohio State, Penn State etc), then you will need a PhD in clinical psychology, which is extremely difficult to get. If doing research is your goal, then get into a professor's lab and get research expereince ASAP, take a Kaplan class to increase GRE scores, and try to get to know the clinical faculty at your school. PhDs in counseling psychology will also prepare you for research as well as some counseling/therapy practice. They are still pretty competitive, so again, gain research experience, get great GRE scores, and get to know the faculty at your school. You can practice as a clinican with a PhD in clinical psych, but the training is research focused and you will spend much of grad school doing reseach.
If research is not your primary goal and you still want to pursue clinical psych, then an PsyD at a University based program is the best choice for this goal. I am in a Unviersity based PsyD program. PsyD programs train doctoral level clinicians. You still have to take research and statistics classes, but not as many as a PhD program requires. A PsyD will help meet the requirements for licesnure as a psychologist in all states. Be mindful of which PsyD programs to pursue. Look at University based PsyD programs only. There are freestanding schools that act more as diploma mills rather than grad schools (e.g. Argosy). I am not saying that all free standing schools are bad, but they take way too many students (e.g. 100 per class) and some may not properly train students as competent well-informed clinicians. Free standing schools also cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend. You will not be able to pay those loans off in a reasonable amount of time. Anyway, University based PsyD programs such as Indiana State U, Marshall U in West Virginia, IUP, Widener, and Immaculata in Pennsylvania, Wright State and Xavier in Ohio, Spalding in Kentucky, Pepperdine in California, Baylor in Texas, and Rutgers in New Jersey are good university based PsyD programs. Some offer funding (hence no extra large loans) and the university support. If you want to work through your doctorate, the Immaculata University PsyD program in Immaculata PA outside of Philidelphia that has mostly night classes and is designed for working people. I have an MSW and I was interviewed and accepted into many of the PsyD programs I applied to. I don't like to think that an MSW will hurt you, but be prepared to explain why you are going back to psychology if you decide to pursue clinical psyc after an MSW. For example, stress the importance of doing testing in your career as a reason for going back to psychology. Only psychologists can do testing. When interviewing at one program, one professor could not get past the MSW. You may have some of that, but for the most part, social work will help diversify your background and give you clinical expereince. I hope this helps your pursuit. If it deos not work out the first time you apply to clinical psyc, try again and keep trying. Good luck!