my 2 1/3 cents

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cancer_doc

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There is hope Part II.

Hi everyone, I'm new to this post, but am already very impressed with the dialogues amongst the participants. I'm a PGY1-11/12 starting my "true" residency soon. For those who are questioning their chances of getting into Rad Onc, I am happy to show y'all the package I had when I matched into this field in complete naked, unadulterated, and shameless fashion.

Undergrad GPA: 2.8 (but I did REALLY WELL on my MCAT)
MEd School GPA cumulative: 3.2
year one: 3.4
year two: 2.2 (yes, 2.2)
year three: 3.7
year four: 3.6
MEd School Rank: 107/196
AOA: yeah, right
Step I: 225
Step II: 213 (I took it early, too)

I took a year off b/w 3rd/4th year to do research in laser surgery. It wasn't Rad Onc or Onc related. Just wanted to play with lasers and surf. I produced 4 primary authorships, 3 supporting authorships, 2 abstracts, and 3 presentations; plus I caught 10+ good waves per week. I was awarded two national student research grants.

I did three rotations. one in house and two externships at good institutions. Got three great letters of recs, all well known in their fields. I didn't get an interview at one, didn't apply to another, and the final place was not offering a spot.

I participated in a decent amount of extracurricular activities ranging from class and campus leadership positions to flag football, but nothing striking.

I applied to almost every program north and west of the Bible Belt (though I regret not even considering U Florida).

I'm going to refrain from making any comments or opinions on why or how I matched to what I consider to be the best field in medicine. I leave such analysis to each of you individually, but will reserve the right clarify or expunge on this topic in the future, but I will make two things clear. 1) You need to be completely confident in you chances or completely ignorant of the growing, overwelming competitiveness in the application pool. 2) Ultimately, you should not question your chances of getting in, but rather question your commitment and desire of becoming a Rad Onc Doc. If you know this is what you really, really want to do, then stick with it. Perserverence is worth more than a 230+ on your USMLE.

Hope this helps, and good luck to all who are partaking this pilgrimage to the Promise Land. And to all who matched this year: Welcome to the Mountain Top. Enjoy the light, and here, have a beer on me. :clap:

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Wow! That's a great post!! I do have a few questions that I'd like to ask you, though...
Do you think PDs are equally impressed with hard core physics research as they are with research specific to rad-onc?

I'm currently looking for a research project for this year. I've have had a few offers in things like nuc med and bio-engineering, but nothing that really Jazzes me up. I'm more into the math/computer science (true nerd typing here) than I am biological science. Do you think if I pursue research that is only tangentially related to rad-onc it will be looked upon skeptically (or worse, not at all)?? Or will the PDs be like, "Wow, you can program in C++ AND do rectal exams!! You're in!"

Thanks again for your nice post!
 
Fantastic post, cancer_doc! I admire your cajones for putting it all out there for us soon-to-be MS4's who are seriously questioning our chances....I also plan to take the "if it's there's program, I'm applying" approach. Although all your authorships and publications are really impressive - that's probably what pulled you through! But cool nonetheless. Thanks for sharing, doc! Congrats on matching, and I hope we're colleagues one day!
 
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Hey S.P.

I don't think it really matters what kind of research you do as long as you are productive- publish in journals (1st author > contributing author; peer-review > proceedings), present at some meeting (international > national > regional; oral > poster > abstract), or anything else that can buff up your CV.

But obviously, if you can publish in the field of your interest, that would definitely be a plus. If there was a grading scale in placing value on research production, it would be: Rad Onc > Onc > Biophysics = Radiation Biology > Physics related to photo-optics and radiation (ionizing > nonionizing) > Bioengineering > all other stuff. The advantage of publishing (no just researching) in Rad Onc is you'll probably get to know the attending very well and may receive a back stage pass into the residency of that program or at the very least get a great rec. But from what I know of Rad Onc research, not many institutions have dedicated research, most are clinical, they're very dull, and most notably, the availability of projects are few in numbers that residents get first dibs on writing, so you may not get any opportunities to be 1st author. A primary authorship in "all other stuff" is worth more than "research experience" in Rad Onc with nothing to show for.

From my experience, PDs (not all) salivate over candidates who have published. Most respected institutions are research oriented and expect their residents to contribute in such endeavors. And if they have to choose between two candidates who are academically and personality-wise equal, but one has shown success in dealing with the absurd world of research journal publication, and the other one lacks the experience and will require time and patience from the PD and colleagues to plan, write, submit, and resubmit works, I think they would prefer the easy way out. Mind you that some programs are not into research and do not place it as highly as others in choosing a resident.

Be insatiable. Write as many as you can. For medical students, QUANTITY matters more than quality. All the PDs want to know is if you can write something up that successfully went through the gauntlet of peer-review. And the more the merrier. Quality is more important once you're already in the field, especially if you are considering an academic career.

The best thing you can do is to collaborate with a faculty who is a research paper pumping machine, regardless of his field of interest. Find one who has collected a lot of data but lacks the time to transpose them onto paper, and is just waiting for a person like you to help write it up for him/her. Or someone who has a lot of ideas but needs people to do the benchwork. You should definitely inform those investigators your desire to publish, not just to do research, and request to be assigned to projects that are publishable (within a reasonable span of time).

I hope this helped clarify your question. Remember that this is my personal opinion. And it would be great if others can share their views on your questioni. Good luck on your endeavor. And I hope to see you at an ASTRO and/or ARRO meeting in the future!
 
thanks again for the great reply! I really appreciate the inside info. I'm getting the feeling (pooled from various sources) that research is key, and that PDs want smart, dedicated folks who will further the field. IMHO, Nothing sez that kinda lovin' like a good ol' PhD.

If you don't mind me asking one more question... I'm actually interested in getting a PhD after my M.D. I debated this all through med school, and now I've decided to go for it. Problem is, I don't want to burn any bridges while going through the process. What do you think would be the best way to go about this? Should I do an intern year, then do a PhD? Or should I do a PhD, then apply for PGY1 and Rad-Onc Residencies?




Thanks!
 
ok, so i've matched, and am passing the time before my brutal IM prelim residency starts by surfing SDN....I felt compelled to reveal my stats...

undergrad GPA--3.8 (phi beta kappa as a junior)
MCAT--33 (9 P, 13 V, 11 B)
MS1--3.0
MS2--3.3
--------->research for 1 year
MS3--3.5
MS4--3.7 including 3 "honors" in radiaton oncology

USMLE 1--211 (taken in early May after 2 wks)
USMLE 2--201 (taken in early July right after 3rd year....is it obvious that i hate studying?? for these test?)

Applied to 56 schools, interviewed 13, matched at #5 on my match list.

Before med school I had 3 pubs, including 1 co-author on a book chapter. During my year off, I did research in "biocomputing" and got 1 first author, plus 10 mid author pubs in mediocre journals. I presented at one national meeting and had 5 abstracts accepted. I did 3 radonc rotations, only 1 of which had a residency, and ranked it first (i didn't match there).

I had great LOR, 2 radonc attendings (not very well known), 1 VERY well known research letter, and 1 VERY well known gynonc letter.

I was no holds barred gung ho for radonc, and did my research before every interview. I tried not to be overbearing, but remained professional at all times.

Bottom line is....my sincere research interests prolly compensated for my average boards. I'm grateful i matched, but i would've reapplied and reapplied even if i hadn't. If you want it and love it, go for it. It's stressful, especially knowing that it's become extremely competitive, but unless you try, you'll never know. sorry for the long response....i hope it encourages someone!
 
No need for apologies about post length, gf! You guys are breathing new life into me as a beaten-down MS3 (soon-to-be MS4) who was seriously starting to question my own chances of matching! Maybe it isn't as bleak as all the interns I've talked to made it out to be after all...
 
S.P.

I think it would be more advantageous if you did your prelim year first, then go for the PhD. Here are the reasons why: 1) If you do the PhD first, then by the time you start your prelim, you'll probably have forgotten just about everything. Then your prelim year would really suck. 2) what you learn in prelim year will by all standards not be applied to Rad Onc anyways, so a hiatus in getting your PhD between your prelim and categorical years should have no impact on your clinical training. 3) use your prelim year to prepare for the Step 3. Take it, then forget about it. THe longer you delay taking your step 3, the tougher it will be to pass. And don't forget, if you take your step 3 early, you can moonlight while getting your PhD.

One thing I have to bring up, though, is I hope you are not considering getting a PhD just to get into Rad Onc. The path to earning a PhD is tough, hard, and long (atleast 5 years. yikes!!!) Poor pay, long research hours, teaching obligations, more boring classes to take, and then the uncertainty of going through the match. I also know a few MuDPhuDs who didn't match into Rad Onc. If you want to be a RAd onc, just go for it. If you feel that research would be beneficial, then try doing a 1 year research fellowship. That should give you adequate time to pump out sufficient papers to win you some looks from PDs. PhDs and research papers may help get you a key to the door, but they certainly do not get you the deeds to the house!

But if you are seriously interested in pursuing a PhD for personal motivations, then God bless you, that is an admirable endeavor. Go for it! :clap:
 
Thanks Cancer Doc!


Ja Rule! :)
 
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