My chances at med school

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CVS

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I'm a URM (african-american )with a 3.2 GPA and a 29Q on the MCAT. I'm currently a senior but will take a year off before applying. Unfortunately, I also have an academic integrity violation that occured last year during the fall semester. Is there any point in applying and if so what types of schools should i look at?

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you will have to explain that. it's not gonna help that you have that either.
but with your URM status a 3.2 isn't the greatest but your 29Q is nice and will be looked upon favorably by adcoms of schools that emphasize a diverse class.
the academic integrity thing is the wild card tho. i honestly don't know what effect that will have.
 
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Use your glide year to beef up your app as much as possible. Do research, volunteer, shadow... all that jazz.

And be ready to talk about what you learned from your academic integrity violation.

As other posters said, you have a pretty good shot at getting in somewhere.
 
CVS said:
I'm a URM (african-american )with a 3.2 GPA and a 29Q on the MCAT. I'm currently a senior but will take a year off before applying. Unfortunately, I also have an academic integrity violation that occured last year during the fall semester. Is there any point in applying and if so what types of schools should i look at?


You're GOLDEN :) . 29 is right around the average for matriculants across the board. And, when push comes to shove, MCATS get a heavier weight b/c it allows schools to standardize across GPAs from thousands of different premed programs. Now as far as this academic integrity violation, does that show up on your transcript?
 
It doesn't show up on my transcript, but the school does report it. I was also planning on retaking the MCAT, I'm pretty sure I can add at least a few points. My pre-med advisor suggested it as well, I do attend an Ivy League school so I think he's used to seeing higher scores. I'm also planning on taking a few additional courses during my year off, but I was wondering what types of jobs or volunteer work I should be looking to do.
 
What exactly is the violation? I can't believe someone else hasnt said this. If it is for cheating, I hope you don't stand a chance in hell at getting in. Cheating pisses me off and I won't buy the argument that you learned from it. This isn't high school. You go to a fantastic school, have been given fantastic opportunites, and still resorted to doing something that violates the academic code. There are too many deserving individuals out there who don't get into medical school for you to take their spot. But something tells me that what you did is significant because schools don't usually go through these measures unless it is warranted. I hope you have to find alternative work. I went to a damn good school and I felt blessed. I never resorted to dishonesty. Ivy league school, cheat, want to get into med school, sub par MCAT, ARGHHHH. I hope the admissions committees see to it that you never put your hands on a patient.
 
shawred said:
What exactly is the violation? I can't believe someone else hasnt said this. If it is for cheating, I hope you don't stand a chance in hell at getting in. Cheating pisses me off and I won't buy the argument that you learned from it. This isn't high school. You go to a fantastic school, have been given fantastic opportunites, and still resorted to doing something that violates the academic code. There are too many deserving individuals out there who don't get into medical school for you to take their spot. But something tells me that what you did is significant because schools don't usually go through these measures unless it is warranted. I hope you have to find alternative work. I went to a damn good school and I felt blessed. I never resorted to dishonesty. Ivy league school, cheat, want to get into med school, sub par MCAT, ARGHHHH. I hope the admissions committees see to it that you never put your hands on a patient.

People make mistakes.

I honestly would rather be in med school than someone who made a mistake than someone who was a pretentious jerk. We don't know the situation, so all anyone here can say is learn from it and make sure you can show the adcoms that you did indeed grow from it.

Did I mention I hate horses?
 
I may be a "pretentious jerk" (which I am not), but I didn't cheat my way into med school. I made up for any mistakes I may have made with honesty and integrity. The number one rule in school is academic honesty. It is similar to Pete Rose betting on baseball. The integrity of the system is at question. Furthermore, you wouldn't be making this argument if this idiot took your spot in the class.
 
shawred said:
I may be a "pretentious jerk" (which I am not), but I didn't cheat my way into med school. I made up for any mistakes I may have made with honesty and integrity. The number one rule in school is academic honesty. It is similar to Pete Rose betting on baseball. The integrity of the system is at question. Furthermore, you wouldn't be making this argument if this idiot took your spot in the class.

Oh jesus, please tell me you're not going to KU?
 
shawred said:
What exactly is the violation? I can't believe someone else hasnt said this. If it is for cheating, I hope you don't stand a chance in hell at getting in. Cheating pisses me off and I won't buy the argument that you learned from it. This isn't high school. You go to a fantastic school, have been given fantastic opportunites, and still resorted to doing something that violates the academic code. There are too many deserving individuals out there who don't get into medical school for you to take their spot. But something tells me that what you did is significant because schools don't usually go through these measures unless it is warranted. I hope you have to find alternative work. I went to a damn good school and I felt blessed. I never resorted to dishonesty. Ivy league school, cheat, want to get into med school, sub par MCAT, ARGHHHH. I hope the admissions committees see to it that you never put your hands on a patient.


:rolleyes: Let's not prejudge here. Play nice
 
So you are saying that you would agree with this situation. I hypothetically cheat my way into passing my board exams. I get caught. I plead with the licensure boards that I have learned my lesson. I take and pass the exams. I get licensed. C'mon now, we have to draw the line somewhere and I feel that that line can safely be drawn at the collegiate level.
 
shawred said:
I may be a "pretentious jerk" (which I am not), but I didn't cheat my way into med school. I made up for any mistakes I may have made with honesty and integrity. The number one rule in school is academic honesty. It is similar to Pete Rose betting on baseball. The integrity of the system is at question. Furthermore, you wouldn't be making this argument if this idiot took your spot in the class.

Jeez. Calm down ,dude. No one owns a spot. If the school decides to ignore the academic dishonesty and take him over me, thats 1 spot in 1 school. Unless if there is 1 of him applying to each of my schools, then hes not the reason i dont get into med school. That spot was not MINE b4 he showed up. Its the school's to give to whomever they deem fit. Life isnt fair. Get used to it, MD-to be.
 
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Mr hawkings said:
Jeez. Calm down ,dude. No one owns a spot. If the school decides to ignore the academic dishonesty and take him over me, thats 1 spot in 1 school. Unless if there is 1 of him applying to each of my schools, then hes not the reason i dont get into med school. That spot was not MINE b4 he showed up. Its the school's to give to whomever they deem fit. Life isnt fair. Get used to it, MD-to be.

You are absolutely right about life not being fair. However, should we refrain from seeking fairness?
 
shawred said:
So you are saying that you would agree with this situation. I hypothetically cheat my way into passing my board exams. I get caught. I plead with the licensure boards that I have learned my lesson. I take and pass the exams. I get licensed. C'mon now, we have to draw the line somewhere and I feel that that line can safely be drawn at the collegiate level.

We have to remember that, in this country, a person can be convicted of murder and still be released after his sentence if he is considered "rehabilitated." I agree with you in that academic dishonesty in college is not admirable. But, in the scope of all things a person can be guilty of, this is fairly insignificant. :)
 
The Remix said:
We have to remember that, in this country, a person can be convicted of murder and still be released after his sentence if he is considered "rehabilitated." I agree with you in that academic dishonesty in college is not admirable. But, in the scope of all things a person can be guilty of, this is fairly insignificant. :)


Nowhere have I said this is a relatively significant "conviction" in the greater scheme of things. However, I am sorry, but I feel that being a physician requires certain traits. Dishonesty is not one of them. Now this is a generalization on my part, but do you really think this individual would be sorry if he/she was not caught? No. Only when the system actually works do most people feel a sense of regret.
 
shawred said:
You are absolutely right about life not being fair. However, should we refrain from seeking fairness?

I wouldn't spend too much time seeking fairness. You're going to be wasting most of it.

The adcoms get all the info, we don't. If they decide to let someone in who has had problems in their past, good for them.
 
shawred said:
Nowhere have I said this is a relatively significant "conviction" in the greater scheme of things. However, I am sorry, but I feel that being a physician requires certain traits. Dishonesty is not one of them. Now this is a generalization on my part, but do you really think this individual would be sorry if he/she was not caught? No. Only when the system actually works do most people feel a sense of regret.

You should take your black & white world view and go get off with the rest of the idiots in everyone.
 
shawred said:
Nowhere have I said this is a relatively significant "conviction" in the greater scheme of things. However, I am sorry, but I feel that being a physician requires certain traits. Dishonesty is not one of them. Now this is a generalization on my part, but do you really think this individual would be sorry if he/she was not caught? No. Only when the system actually works do most people feel a sense of regret.

I feel I could make a good lawyer joke out of this conversation... I just can't think of it.
 
shawred said:
Nowhere have I said this is a relatively significant "conviction" in the greater scheme of things. However, I am sorry, but I feel that being a physician requires certain traits. Dishonesty is not one of them. Now this is a generalization on my part, but do you really think this individual would be sorry if he/she was not caught? No. Only when the system actually works do most people feel a sense of regret.
Yes but arent you assuming that making one mistake in college automatically means that he cheated his way through college and into med school. You are assuming that he cheated on his MCAT, and will on his boards. One "judgement error" an 18 year old college freshman makes does not automatically doom him/her to a life as dishonest physician.
Yes a line has to be drawn, but i believe it has been. So lets allow the adcoms to do their jobs and lets stop judging each other.
 
CVS-

Congrats on the MCAT; retaking is a most risky move...are you sure the benefits outweigh the risks?

What was your violation for? What year was it in? I'd definitely apply, be ready to address it in your interviews, and do something MATURE with your year off. Do something in which you show responsibility for others, and succeed with it.

A 3.2 from an Ivy will likely carry good weight with an admissions committee. And the URM thing is gonna be of benefit in some ways.

Good luck.

dc
 
stoic said:
I wouldn't spend too much time seeking fairness. You're going to be wasting most of it.

That is one of the dumbest things I have heard anyone say. People have ideals that they seek. In most cases those ideals cannot be met. But in the process you go forward and make improvements. Our entire society is based on that premise.
 
shawred said:
That is one of the dumbest things I have heard anyone say. People have ideals that they seek. In most cases those ideals cannot be met. But in the process you go forward and make improvements. Our entire society is based on that premise.


personally, i try not to be a jackass. i try be forgiving and understanding. i also try not to make snap judgements with incomplete information.

grow up; this attitude of yours will not get you very far.
 
To whoever started this thread. I'm sorry that this has turned into an argument about whether or not you deserve to go to medical school. I hope in all of this, that you at least got some useful advice as to what your chances are.
Good luck.
 
stoic said:
personally, i try not to be a jackass. i try be forgiving and understanding. i also try not to make snap judgements with incomplete information.

grow up; this attitude of yours will not get you very far.

Stoic makes a good point. As future doctors, we have to be non-judemental when some of the patients in front of us will scream "cruel lying bastard scum." We have to be HEALERS regardless of what everyone else is doing.
 
Mr hawkings said:
Yes but arent you assuming that making one mistake in college automatically means that he cheated his way through college and into med school. You are assuming that he cheated on his MCAT, and will on his boards. One "judgement error" an 18 year old college freshman makes does not automatically doom him/her to a life as dishonest physician.
Yes a line has to be drawn, but i believe it has been. So lets allow the adcoms to do their jobs and lets stop judging each other.


I agree with much of what you are saying. We are both right, a line has to be drawn. But is it going to be a metaphorical line or a true line that will discourage this behavior. If we always accept apologies with a slap on the wrist, we will never have a true deterrent. Certain professions have certain guidelines. Most airlines won't hire pilots who have alcholic histories, the CIA will not hire you if you have tried ANY drugs in the past, you would have an EXTREMELY difficult time finding work as a banker if you have a felony for fraud, etc, etc, etc. I realize there are exceptions to this rule. I was not saying the cheating would continue (I find slippery slope arguments hard to defend), but I was saying there are certain offenses in which three strikes are thrown at once (to continue my baseball analogy). It is my opinion that academic dishonesty is extremely hard to defend.
 
shawred said:
I agree with much of what you are saying. We are both right, a line has to be drawn. But is it going to be a metaphorical line or a true line that will discourage this behavior. If we always accept apologies with a slap on the wrist, we will never have a true deterrent. Certain professions have certain guidelines. Most airlines won't hire pilots who have alcholic histories, the CIA will not hire you if you have tried ANY drugs in the past, you would have an EXTREMELY difficult time finding work as a banker if you have a felony for fraud, etc, etc, etc. I realize there are exceptions to this rule. I was not saying the cheating would continue (I find slippery slope arguments hard to defend), but I was saying there are certain offenses in which three strikes are thrown at once (to continue my baseball analogy). It is my opinion that academic dishonesty is extremely hard to defend.

I wonder how often this type of stuff happens at top schools?
 
The grass is usually not as green on the other side... so to speak.


:thumbup:
 
You're not understanding that simple fact. People make mistakes. I'm sure he has learned from that mistake because that violation will always be a mark on his academic record, and he has to live with that right now during his application. He'd have to be quite stupid to cheat on his USMLEs and ruin his entire medical career, especially since he got a taste of what it's like. In fact, one might say he is more likely to be honest than the average student after what happened. You really can't say with the given information and without knowing him. Try to be less judgemental. :thumbup:

shawred said:
What exactly is the violation? I can't believe someone else hasnt said this. If it is for cheating, I hope you don't stand a chance in hell at getting in. Cheating pisses me off and I won't buy the argument that you learned from it. This isn't high school. You go to a fantastic school, have been given fantastic opportunites, and still resorted to doing something that violates the academic code. There are too many deserving individuals out there who don't get into medical school for you to take their spot. But something tells me that what you did is significant because schools don't usually go through these measures unless it is warranted. I hope you have to find alternative work. I went to a damn good school and I felt blessed. I never resorted to dishonesty. Ivy league school, cheat, want to get into med school, sub par MCAT, ARGHHHH. I hope the admissions committees see to it that you never put your hands on a patient.
 
shawred said:
I agree with much of what you are saying. We are both right, a line has to be drawn. But is it going to be a metaphorical line or a true line that will discourage this behavior. If we always accept apologies with a slap on the wrist, we will never have a true deterrent. Certain professions have certain guidelines. Most airlines won't hire pilots who have alcholic histories, the CIA will not hire you if you have tried ANY drugs in the past, you would have an EXTREMELY difficult time finding work as a banker if you have a felony for fraud, etc, etc, etc. I realize there are exceptions to this rule. I was not saying the cheating would continue (I find slippery slope arguments hard to defend), but I was saying there are certain offenses in which three strikes are thrown at once (to continue my baseball analogy). It is my opinion that academic dishonesty is extremely hard to defend.

I think its lamentable that you feel academic dishonesty can't be a dischargeable offense. Due to experience, but not involving cheating, i cant tell you how much i have learned to value a strict adherence to my own system of values, in which academic integrity is certainly one of them. But for you to say that such an offense can't be accounted for on the path to becoming a doctor is moral righteousness at its worst. In speaking on justice, Nietzsche said, "it goes without saying that mercy remains the privilige of the most powerful man" and "What are my parasites to me? it might say. May they live and prosper: I am strong enough for that!"...you obvisouly arent so buck up and quit your lame ass whining.
 
And, believe it or not, just this year a student cheated on the COMLEX, got caught, and was only forced to repeat the 2nd year of school.

At first I thought this was beyond belief, but a person on SDN that I respect very much pointed out that this is a medical liscensing board - they take the job seriously. If they found it fit to let this student repeat the exam instead of ending their career, surely there can be circumstances that we don't understand involved.

We don't know ANYTHING about this violation. I know I've done a few things that could have potentially kept me out of med school, but I didn't get caught. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to matriculate? I learned from my mistakes and thank god I was able to learn from them of my own valition. I see know reason why someone how got caught shouldn't get the same opportunity.
 
CVS said:
I'm a URM (african-american )with a 3.2 GPA and a 29Q on the MCAT. I'm currently a senior but will take a year off before applying. Unfortunately, I also have an academic integrity violation that occured last year during the fall semester. Is there any point in applying and if so what types of schools should i look at?

Based on your numbers and your URM status, I think you stand a good shot at med school. If you have interesting ECs and great letters, you have an excellent shot. One black mark on your record isn't going to keep you out of med school if you explain it well to the adcoms. Do not make excuses. Just explain the situation and say what you learned from it. Keep it simple. If you make them understand, they will understand. In fact, that WANT to understand. That's why they alot space for explanations. Do something during your gap year that will really make you stand out and show to adcoms that you are deserving of a spot in their class. Best of luck!

shawred said:
What exactly is the violation? I can't believe someone else hasnt said this. If it is for cheating, I hope you don't stand a chance in hell at getting in. Cheating pisses me off and I won't buy the argument that you learned from it. This isn't high school. You go to a fantastic school, have been given fantastic opportunites, and still resorted to doing something that violates the academic code. There are too many deserving individuals out there who don't get into medical school for you to take their spot. But something tells me that what you did is significant because schools don't usually go through these measures unless it is warranted. I hope you have to find alternative work. I went to a damn good school and I felt blessed. I never resorted to dishonesty. Ivy league school, cheat, want to get into med school, sub par MCAT, ARGHHHH. I hope the admissions committees see to it that you never put your hands on a patient.

So if people make mistakes after high school, then they should receive the kiss of death? No one comes here looking for judgments and condemnations. They're seeking advice. We're all in this together, so we might as well support each other.

As someone else has said, no one OWNS a spot in medical school. We earn our places, and the application process is about showing adcoms what we have done to earn that place. One instance of dishonesty does not make a person dishonest. A string of dishonest acts one after the other over an entire lifetime makes a person dishonest. Who are you to say the OP didn't learn from his mistake? We should give the person the benefit of the doubt here. It takes a lot more courage to own up to your mistakes than it does to pass judgments on others.
 
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