My med school experience so far, not too thrilling

[mimelim]

There are a lot of tools in many professions. Hubris is not limited just to Medicine.

“Everybody in the world has an ego. The only difference between us is we have a reason to have an ego.” - Sir Charles

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[DermViser]

Yes, but "many professions" don't pontificate their specialness to the entire public as much as medicine. Then come to find out most people in it are so vanilla.

There is a reason medicine is thought to be a "calling". If one could be in the profession and only like it bc it makes good money - it wouldn't have the stature that it does with the public. Some of the most unhappiest people in medicine, are bc they went into medicine specifically bc they thought it would be lucrative.

 

[NontradCA]

“Everybody in the world has an ego. The only difference between us is we have a reason to have an ego.” - Sir Charles

Right on cue.

 

[DermViser]

“Everybody in the world has an ego. The only difference between us is we have a reason to have an ego.” - Sir Charles

Not to be an ***, but yes, pretty much. Tell a neurosurgeon, it's no big deal what he does, and you would deserve to get your head (not you) kicked in.

 

[NontradCA]

There is a reason medicine is thought to be a "calling". If one could be in the profession and only like it bc it makes good money - it wouldn't have the stature that it does with the public. Some of the most unhappiest people in medicine, are bc they went into medicine specifically bc they thought it would be lucrative.

I know a lot of people like that. Either that or prestige. I watch the interactions with patients and it's easy to tell who's full of ****.

 

[DermViser]

Right on cue.

Uh, your supposed point fell flat, if you're trying to say mimelim is egotistical.

 

[RJGOP]

“Everybody in the world has an ego. The only difference between us is we have a reason to have an ego.” - Sir Charles

Not just doctors. Don't forget our men and women in uniform, the police, firefighters etc. Except those people are never egotistical, usually.

 

[DermViser]

I know a lot of people like that. Either that or prestige. I watch the interactions with patients and it's easy to tell who's full of ****.

Students or physicians? Quite easy for you to take the moral high ground as an MS-1. I'm sure money, prestige, or job security didn't play any no role in your decision to pursue medicine.

So based on an attending's interactions with patients you can divine who is in it for money, prestige, etc? Please tell me more about this supernatural power you have.

 

[DermViser]

Not just doctors. Don't forget our men and women in uniform, the police, firefighters etc.

I would also say being a police officer or firefighter is also a calling as well, where just the paycheck isn't enough. Their career takes a huge toll on their families.

 

[RJGOP]

Students or physicians? Quite easy for you to take the moral high ground as an MS-1. I'm sure money, prestige, or job security didn't play any no role in your decision to pursue medicine.

When people ask me that question I tell them the truth. I became a doctor because that's what I want to do, maybe it's a calling, maybe it's not. I like playing doctor I guess. But the money, prestige and job security certainly didn't hurt.

 

[NontradCA]

Students or physicians? Quite easy for you to take the moral high ground as an MS-1. I'm sure money, prestige, or job security didn't play any no role in your decision to pursue medicine.

So based on an attending's interactions with patients you can divine who is in it for money, prestige, etc? Please tell me more about this supernatural power you have.

Students, that's who this thread is about. But try again.

 

[DermViser]

When people ask me that question I tell them the truth. I became a doctor because that's what I want to do, maybe it's a calling, maybe it's not. I like playing doctor I guess. But the money, prestige and job security certainly didn't hurt.

I agree with you. They are perks to what can be a very hard job. My point is that one sure way to burn out is to pursue medicine for the sole goal of money or prestige.

 

[DermViser]

Students, that's who this thread is about. But try again.

Even worse. So based on a medical student's interactions with patients you can divine who is in it for money, prestige, etc? Please tell me more about this supernatural power you have.

 

[NontradCA]

Even worse. So based on a medical student's interactions with patients you can divine who is in it for money, prestige, etc? Please tell me more about this supernatural power you have.

It's called social experience and knowledge of your fellow human being? This is not a supernatural power, it comes naturally to most. Only the most gifted of sociopaths can hide their intentions or feelings from their peers whom they spend 40+ hours a week with.

This is normal. And whether you like it or not, medicine is filled with quite normal individuals.

 

[DermViser]

It's called social experience and knowledge of your fellow human being? This is not a supernatural power, it comes naturally to most. Only the most gifted of sociopaths can hide their intentions or feelings from their peers whom they spend 40+ hours a week with.

No, it's called you being a judgmental dingus toward your fellow medical school classmates, when you yourself are just as human. You and EMDO2018 seem to have many of the same things in common.

 

[NontradCA]

Uh, your supposed point fell flat, if you're trying to say mimelim is egotistical.

It's not about ego. It's about pretentiousness. Whether he is or not, I don't know. But the quote he posted was.

 

[NontradCA]

No, it's called you being a judgmental dingus toward your fellow medical school classmates, when you yourself are just as human. You and EMDO2018 seem to have many of the same things in common.

Everyone is judgmental. This post you just made is judgmental.

 

[DermViser]

Everyone is judgmental. This post you just made is judgmental.

You're right. You said, "I know a lot of people like that. Either that or prestige. I watch the interactions with patients and it's easy to tell who's full of ****." I should have just agreed with you.

 

[NontradCA]

You're right. You said, "I know a lot of people like that. Either that or prestige. I watch the interactions with patients and it's easy to tell who's full of ****." I should have just agreed with you.

As a general guideline, when in doubt, agree with NontradCA.

 

[DermViser]

As a general guideline, when in doubt, agree with NontradCA.

Not bc you are actually correct, of course. Mainly bc you're so steadfast and insufferable in thinking you know more than a vascular surgery resident.
I'm just amazed that you would go for a profession which has so many egotists in it.

 

[NontradCA]

Not bc you are actually correct, of course. Mainly bc you're so steadfast and insufferable in thinking you know more than a vascular surgery resident.
I'm just amazed that you would go for a profession which has so many egotists in it.

Insufferable? Because I'm the one twisting comments to make arguments on the internet? Where did I say I knew more than him? This is a perfect example of a tool. Bring up something completely unrelated to the conversation to pontificate. I point you to my original post on this thread and have a good day.

 

[DermViser]

Insufferable? Because I'm the one twisting comments to make arguments on the internet? Where did I say I knew more than him? This is a perfect example of a tool. Bring up something completely unrelated to the conversation to pontificate. I point you to my original post on this thread and have a good day.

Mimelim pointed out a quote on ego. And you said, "Right on cue." Apparently based on how your classmates interact with patients you can tell who is in it for money and prestige and who isn't. Your confidence in your clairvoyance to ascertain that is what makes you insufferable in this instance.

 

[Psai]

Everyone is in it for the money, career, prestige. For some reason, some black people in medical school seem to have this holier than thou attitude because they're planning on "serving the underprivileged". The people who actually want to serve the underprivileged including refugee populations and rural areas who follow through by pursuing it in residency don't have this bizarre superiority complex

 

[NontradCA]

Everyone is in it for the money, career, prestige. For some reason, some black people in medical school seem to have this holier than thou attitude because they're planning on "serving the underprivileged". The people who actually want to serve the underprivileged including refugee populations and rural areas who follow through by pursuing it in residency don't have this bizarre superiority complex

I've never seen this attitude.

 

[DermViser]

I've never seen this attitude.

Right on cue.

 

[Kaustikos]

At least you were only 16 people. I do think your med school is ridiculous for putting you guys on satellite campuses across the state with different professors in the first 2 years.

Eh. It sucked because we were so far away. That and we definitely didn't see the money we pay going to our site fairly. In the end: I survived and I've come back to do rotations there. Surgery was amazing. And it was a relief talking to the vascular director about being there doing CEAs and him knowing who the surgeon was/liking him.
It was pretty much a "take the good with the bad". I'd strongly consider doing surgical residency there if it was available. The humor that a center campus feels like this city couldn't deliver the same quality experience as theirs... Because there are definitely enough hospitals and ORs to at least have a couple months a year for residency training.

 

[Microglia]

I sympathize with OP, actually. In a weird way, it feels like my classmates all hardcore reverted on a maturity level post-college right back to a high school mentality. I've never been one to play ball with that kind of stuff, I'd rather just stay out of it and do my thing.

One year in, it's still mostly about parties, hookups, and cheating drama. I was never tight with the premed crowd though, my close friends in college were business majors and engineers. I find that the nontrads (not counting people who just took a few years off for research, they're essentially trads) are the more down to earth people.

 

[styphon]

I had a friend who had so many publications he was author on that he could not fit them on a THREE page resume! In addition, he played on a hockey team which included Sidney Crosby, Zach Parise, Ty Conklin etc etc.

Then there was me, no publications, had never even been overseas on vacation much less medical work - yet we got along great and he still remains one of my best friends.

All that "stuff" on top doesn't tell much about the person underneath (much to Adcom's dismay). You can form lifelong relationships with people who understand what you are going thru - that alone makes it worthwhile to try to reach out to some people to see if you can connect.

 

[alamo4]

Med school so far
monotonous environment of extroverts, blabber faces, actors, and leaders

In a couple of years if you remember this thread, I hope you'll resurrect it and post your impressions later on. I'm not saying that they will change, but it would just be interesting to see what you write then and what you think about what you wrote now and how things are going with your cohort of students.

Most medical school classes rapidly become pretty cliquish, as it is inevitable that any large group will form subgroups of people who share similar interests, personalities that complement each other, or happen to be housemates or something. I hope that means that you can find a group of one or two close peer friends whom you can connect with and can learn new ideas from each other. I know a lot of research on success in the workplace shows that having few a very good friends at your workplace can be really key to success and happiness. I assume the same is true of medical school.

Good luck!

 

[Flamen04]

I think it's your fault for having such a delusioned view of medicine and doctors from the start. At the end of the day, doctors are *gasp* real people too. Some will be nice. Some will be mean. Some will be extroverts. Some will be introverts. Some will be professional. Some will be wild. The sooner you learn to accept this, the better. Then it's all about doing what everyone in the world should do: do their own thing and have relationships with people they care about. Welcome to the real world.

 

[Mad Jack]

First week or two of class was unbearable with this type of person:

But it's seemed to have leveled off.

It's really hard to notice gunners when I pretty much never go to class.

 

[DermViser]

Eh. It sucked because we were so far away. That and we definitely didn't see the money we pay going to our site fairly. In the end: I survived and I've come back to do rotations there. Surgery was amazing. And it was a relief talking to the vascular director about being there doing CEAs and him knowing who the surgeon was/liking him.
It was pretty much a "take the good with the bad". I'd strongly consider doing surgical residency there if it was available. The humor that a center campus feels like this city couldn't deliver the same quality experience as theirs... Because there are definitely enough hospitals and ORs to at least have a couple months a year for residency training.

Why not have you do 2 years in the main city with the med school and then fan out for rotations? I can't imagine having 16 different Biochem teachers.

 

[EMDO2018]

I hate when people brag about not studying, when they total are all the time.

 

[cbrons]

Op sounds crazy but I am also sick of all the "world" savers in med school. Older faculty (not public health PhDs) need to tell med students every year, "Listen, just shut up about "diversity", "social justice" (which really just means crypto-socialism with very little justice), garbage the AMA/AMSA louts feed you, saving the rainforests, etc. and just focus on saving the patient in front of you."


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[DermViser]

Op sounds crazy but I am also sick of all the "world" savers in med school. Older faculty (not public health PhDs) need to tell med students every year, "Listen, just shut up about "diversity", "social justice" (which really just means crypto-socialism with very little justice), garbage the AMA/AMSA louts feed you, saving the rainforests, etc. and just focus on saving the patient in front of you."

Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

They become school/national AMSA President or become medical students with a huge social media presence who "follow" and are followed by medicine thought leaders-- Twitter, Instagram, etc. Many of them also do an MPH or an MPP degree and tend to be quite insufferable. Those are the ones who should get to do all the rectals.

 

[DermViser]

I hate when people brag about not studying, when they total are all the time.

 

[Kaustikos]

Why not have you do 2 years in the main city with the med school and then fan out for rotations? I can't imagine having 16 different Biochem teachers.

I never said there was logic. lol

 

[DermViser]

I never said there was logic. lol

The schools that have it has everyone do basic sciences together (so everyone gets the same basic science education) and THEN everyone fans out to different clerkship sites. I'd pick the city with the easy teachers.

 

[Kaustikos]

The schools that have it has everyone do basic sciences together (so everyone gets the same basic science education) and THEN everyone fans out to different clerkship sites. I'd pick the city with the easy teachers.

Sites are assigned randomly. And there is a major discrepancy between them for basic sciences. We got the most difficult anatomy class with no one getting honors and wanting to quit. But we ended up getting the highest shelf scores to boost the deans ego. Hurray.
Fun memories. I actually had an attending who went there and had that same anatomy professor. He admitted he almost quit Med school after that first semester.
The hidden gem is third year where you have no almost interns/residents so you manage the patients on your own. I learned alot on my family medicine rotation which made me way more prepared for third year. Like I said: good with the bad.

 

[DermViser]

Sites are assigned randomly. And there is a major discrepancy between them for basic sciences. We got the most difficult anatomy class with no one getting honors and wanting to quit. But we ended up getting the highest shelf scores to boost the deans ego. Hurray.
Fun memories. I actually had an attending who went there and had that same anatomy professor. He admitted he almost quit Med school after that first semester.
The hidden gem is third year where you have no almost interns/residents so you manage the patients on your own. I learned alot on my family medicine rotation which made me way more prepared for third year. Like I said: good with the bad.

Must make class ranks very frustrating though as not everyone is held to the same standard. Clerkships evaluations are already quit arbitrary as it is with respect to H/HP/P/F. I can't imagine with basic sciences, with some part of the class getting to coast thru basic science coursework (and get to prep well for boards) while others get the hard*** profs (and not getting enough time to go thru board prep material). I guess you mean way more prepared for 4th year.

 

[Kaustikos]

Must make class ranks very frustrating though. Clerkships evaluations are already quit arbitrary as it is with respect to H/HP/P/F. I can't imagine with basic sciences, with some part of the class getting to coast thru basic science coursework (and get to prep well for boards) while others get the hard*** profs (and not getting enough time to go thru board prep material). I guess you mean way more prepared for 4th year.

Yup. Grades are more arbitrary in third year. Some of my friends stayed at the satellite site and got honors for evals and exams but ended up with HP. They basically said evaluations outside the center aren't equivocal. Talk about a slap in the face. My CT surgery rotation down there doesn't even count as a formal elective, either! That honors grade is like "Eh, doesn't count"

 

[DermViser]

Yup. Grades are more arbitrary in third year. Some of my friends stayed at the satellite site and got honors for evals and exams but ended up with HP. They basically said evaluations outside the center aren't equivocal. Talk about a slap in the face. My CT surgery rotation down there doesn't even count as a formal elective, either! That honors grade is like "Eh, doesn't count"

No offense, but your school sucks monkey butt. Everyone should be graded by the same standard -- that's usually done by everyone having classes together during the basic science years and everyone doing clerkships at the same sites (although obviously different attendings/residents) which usually have residency programs there.

 

[DermViser]

Yup. Grades are more arbitrary in third year. Some of my friends stayed at the satellite site and got honors for evals and exams but ended up with HP. They basically said evaluations outside the center aren't equivocal. Talk about a slap in the face. My CT surgery rotation down there doesn't even count as a formal elective, either! That honors grade is like "Eh, doesn't count"

Wait a minute...they got H on evals and the shelf and still ended up with HP bc the med school said their clerkship wasn't at the main campus?!?!? What?!?!?

 

[Kaustikos]

No offense, but your school sucks monkey butt. Everyone should be graded by the same standard -- that's usually done by everyone having classes together during the basic science years and everyone doing clerkships at the same sites (although obviously different attendings/residents) which usually have residency programs there.

Yeah.. This school doesn't suck... Or I don't want to say it because it could be a state of mind. I'll just say they have a lot of issues. I'm just staying under the radar atm... By staying in the OR.

Wait a minute...they got H on evals and the shelf and still ended up with HP bc the med school said their clerkship wasn't at the main campus?!?!? What?!?!?

I wish I was making this up. They showed me their grade. They basically throw a random curve that's impossible to beat if you're outside the center. It's hilarious to me not because of what's happening but because it's happening and nothing can be done. I've been a victim to know that there's a LOT of handshaking that's obvious.
Any who. Med school.

 

[DermViser]

Yeah.. This school doesn't suck... Or I don't want to say it because it could be a state of mind. I'll just say they have a lot of issues. I'm just staying under the radar atm... By staying in the OR.

I wish I was making this up. They showed me their grade. They basically throw a random curve that's impossible to beat if you're outside the center. It's hilarious to me not because of what's happening but because it's happening and nothing can be done. I've been a victim to know that there's a LOT of handshaking that's obvious.
Any who. Med school.

Yeah, there's a lot of **** in med school that you are powerless and just can't fight and it's a losing battle, but I've NEVER seen this. Usually each clerkship tells exactly the criteria needed to get Honors beforehand. You meet the criteria, you get Honors, period. I've never heard of not giving the grade that's earned bc it happens to be outside of the main med school center and considered to be an easier site with respect to grading.

 

[Kaustikos]

Yeah, there's a lot of **** in med school that you are powerless and just can't fight and it's a losing battle, but I've NEVER seen this. Usually each clerkship tells exactly the criteria needed to get Honors beforehand. You meet the criteria, you get Honors, period. I've never heard of not giving the grade that's earned bc it happens to be outside of the main med school center and considered to be an easier site with respect to grading.

Well,
If you think about the politics, it makes "sense". If you have to restrict honors to, say, 5 people and you have 5 people at the center campus getting honors, you'll probably play favoritism to those and make some arbitrary argument that they were better by some magical formula.
Or if you have a kid at center campus giving you blowjobs daily.
I dunno. This is why I couldn't give two ****s about it. I'm not a fan of administration. Considering the elective scheduling person doesn't do her job ever until I went to her office and saw a "tip jar" and put $25.00 into it and asked her to do the same thing I asked before and she magically did it within an hour, I can see what's going on.

 

[DermViser]

Well,
If you think about the politics, it makes "sense". If you have to restrict honors to, say, 5 people and you have 5 people at the center campus getting honors, you'll probably play favoritism to those and make some arbitrary argument that they were better by some magical formula.
Or if you have a kid at center campus giving you blowjobs daily.
I dunno. This is why I couldn't give two ****s about it. I'm not a fan of administration. Considering the elective scheduling person doesn't do her job ever until I went to her office and saw a "tip jar" and put $25.00 into it and asked her to do the same thing I asked before and she magically did it within an hour, I can see what's going on.

So then essentially you're screwed unless you do all your rotations at the main campus, even though you have no choice. Most schools that do a percentage say the top 15% of the entire class can get Honors on a clerkship. Even then, it's not really held to bc it's more a guideline for the school not for you. Hence why you have like greater than half the class get Honors in Psych, while <5% get Honors on Surgery. That's why they're is a clerkship orientation where you're told exactly what you have to get to get Honors, or then what's the point if they can be assigned willy nilly?

 

[Kaustikos]

So then essentially you're screwed unless you do all your rotations at the main campus, even though you have no choice. Most schools that do a percentage say the top 15% of the entire class can get Honors on a clerkship. Even then, it's not really held to bc it's more a guideline for the school not for you. Hence why you have like greater than half the class get Honors in Psych, while <5% get Honors on Surgery. That's why they're is a clerkship orientation where you're told exactly what you have to get to get Honors, or then what's the point if they can be assigned willy nilly?

Call me jaded/cynical but it seems to me like grades aren't objective measures and just bull**** dealing with politics. I wish someone would prove me wrong. But I don't care at this point since I'm done with third year. I'm just ready to start intern year already.

 

[DermViser]

Call me jaded/cynical but it seems to me like grades aren't objective measures and just bull**** dealing with politics. I wish someone would prove me wrong. But I don't care at this point since I'm done with third year. I'm just ready to start intern year already.

They're not objective in the sense of multiple choice questions --> percentage you get right --> that's your grade. Usually, if you try hard, do your work, don't complain, and show it, you get at least an HP. The shelf score (as the standardization measure) is more used to tip you into the H category. Of course schools can add whatever **** they want, OSCEs, an in-house clerkship exam on top of the NBME shelf, patient logs, etc. By the end of third year, most people really do care just to match and graduate, so it's not being jaded/cynical, just exhaustion (physically, mentally, emotionally) at the end of MS-3.

It's not all politics. You'll see once you're on the other side the "quality" of the MS-3s you'll have rotating with you.