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Nd > md ?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Allopathic [ MD ]' started by Nymphicus, 05.02.12.

  1. Nymphicus

    Nymphicus kane o ke kai Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    Most of you are unaware that Naturpathic Doctors (ND) are better than Medical Doctors (MD/DO) in almost every way. I am here to enlighten you.

    Here is some information directly from their AAMC equivalent.

    http://www.aanmc.org/education/comparing-nd-md-curricula.php


    Some gems

    But when comparing the training and philosophies of NDs and MDs, it's important to remember that there is no right or wrong


    During the first two years, ND students' credit loads are almost identical to those of MD students. In nearly every biomedical science, ND students are required to complete as many credits as, if not more than, MD students. Specifics vary by school, but a 2010 course comparison of the University of Washington's (UW) MD program and Bastyr University's ND program shows that during the first two years, UW MD students complete a total of 150 credits and Bastyr ND students complete 151.5 credits, most of them in comparable biomedical and diagnostic science courses.

    lolol


    However, it is during these later years that MDs' educations begin to differ noticeably from those of NDs. MDs complete clerkships, which are courses in various medical specialties, and although MD students see plenty of patients during these clerkships, their roles are primarily observational: they are not primarily responsible for patient care.

    Third- and fourth-year ND students have increasing opportunities for hands-on clinical training and practice, often at their schools' teaching clinics and off-site clinics, which offer diverse patient populations. This period of clinical training goes well beyond the observation and is absolutely essential to NDs' educations – so much so that clinical training is now being introduced during the first and second years of education at several AANMC-member schools. As a result, naturopathic medical students graduate prepared to begin practice and to diagnose and treat patients, whereas MD students are required to complete residencies after graduation in order to gain clinical experience.


    damn MD's, get on track


    When examining a naturopathic medical curriculum, especially in comparison with that of a conventional medical school, remember this important differentiating factor: all future NDs are in training to become primary care physicians. In other words, a naturopathic medicine program is by definition a specialization in primary care – a field of medicine in extreme shortage in the US today.

    oh yea that primary care shortage

    Why waste time grubbing for that obsolete and extremely limited MD? Go apply for your ND today at <https://portal.ndcas.org/>! It's just like AMCAS but probably better.

    Who whouldn't want to attend one of the currently accredited ND schools?
    Pick from one of these fine institutions:

    [​IMG]Bastyr University
    [​IMG]Boucher Institute of Naturopathic Medicine
    [​IMG]Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine
    [​IMG]National College of Natural Medicine
    [​IMG]National University of Health Sciences
    [​IMG]Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine
    [​IMG]University of Bridgeport
    Last edited: 05.02.12
  2. Marge

    Marge

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    1. They're license in sixteen states and D.C. HOW DID THIS HAPPEN??????

    2. To be fair, here is the curriculum:

    Biochemistry
    Human Physiology
    Histology
    Anatomy
    Macro- and Microbiology
    Immunology
    Human Pathology
    Neuroscience
    Pharmacology

    Clinical Nutrition
    Botanical Medicine
    Homeopathy
    Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine
    Lifestyle Counseling
    Massage
    Physical Medicine
    Hydrotherapy

    3. You know that feeling when your little sister is playing piano in church, and your stomach is clenched and you're nervous for her? That's how I feel when I'm around people who weren't smart enough to get into a real medical school (here's hoping I get in...). Anyway you're stuck between feeling sorry for them and wanting them to get the hell away from an innocent patient.
  3. Wolverine Fan

    Wolverine Fan

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    .
    Last edited: 06.11.13
  4. JESSFALLING

    JESSFALLING

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    If they only learned chiropractic..... then D.O. would be obsolete too :rolleyes:
  5. pfaction

    pfaction

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    You can go right ahead and **** yourself, because I guarantee you that compared to me, you're not good enough to get into med school.
  6. dblue10

    dblue10

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    Hydrotheraphy sounds easy. All you need is a hose or bucket?
  7. kexy

    kexy

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    My reactions while reading this: :laugh: :rolleyes: :eek: :uhno: :smack: :bang:
  8. beargunkarate

    beargunkarate

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    MDs are obsolete and extremely limited?? Really?!?
  9. plumazul

    plumazul ☮, ♥, & ♫ Gold Donor

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    Why go through all that trouble to get an ND when you can get an ONLINE degree in Alternative Medicine and go right to work? :idea:


    http://evergladesuniversityonline.c...nutrition degree&program=Alternative Medicine

    :laugh:
  10. Nymphicus

    Nymphicus kane o ke kai Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    Well, yea, it says it right at the top of their website. I don't know if I would be content with just a limited MD degree. I mean, I want to have a comprehensive and well-rounded medical eduacation, at least, I think I do, and it seems like ND is the way to go. I mean look, N is basically M with the fluff taken out.

    Accordingly, ND school curricula include certain areas of study not covered in conventional med school, such as clinical nutrition, homeopathic medicine and psychological counseling. However, future NDs also receive training in many of the same biomedical and diagnostic sciences as their MD counterparts, and the result is a comprehensive and well-rounded medical education.

    http://www.aanmc.org/education/comparing-nd-md-curricula.php
  11. Temperature101

    Temperature101

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    Anybody is better than MD/DO...Why dont we let bush drivers who listen to Rush Limbauch every day dignose/treat patients..They can find the necessary informations in the internet to perform such task. We dont need MD/DO sucking money out healthcare making it unaffordable.
  12. NeuroLAX

    NeuroLAX Discere faciendo Gold Donor

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    In that order?
  13. kexy

    kexy

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    Yes. The 151.5 credits thing was hilarious. The suggestion that ND's are better-trained because they DON'T complete residencies was head bangingly stupid. What makes me sad though, is that there are people who read this and totally buy it... so I guess I should add :(.
  14. Koosalagoosagoo

    Koosalagoosagoo

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    When you get cancer go to a Naturpathic doctor and tell me how it works out for you.
  15. el poblano

    el poblano

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    You guys are aware they op is just trolling, right? From the looks of it he already succeeded :-D

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
  16. NeuroLAX

    NeuroLAX Discere faciendo Gold Donor

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    Agreed. The chart was rather whimsical... nice try AANMC.
  17. Sephiroth

    Sephiroth One-winged Angel

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    [​IMG]

    The funny thing is, I don't think he was really trolling as he made it very clear (e.g. "lolol") in his post he was joking about it.

    Now a legit troll would quote just this:
    out of context , and then make a remark along the lines of "just like people do with the whole 'holisitc' BS from osteopathic schools" in an attempt to turn this into another one of those threads.



    ...well, there it is
    ... :smuggrin:
    j/k, seriously, don't
  18. dbeast

    dbeast Neurorectal surgeon

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    For some reason, I expected "ND" to stand for "Nurse Doctitioner"
  19. Roberie

    Roberie

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    They do. They have something called "naturopathic manipulative medicine."
  20. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Moderator

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    Nice, Bastyr also offers a certificate in holistic landscape design.
  21. Sephiroth

    Sephiroth One-winged Angel

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    Is landscape design often not holistic? Do normal landscape designers treat the front lawn and the entrance-way as completely separate entities that don't have to match at all?

    Has anyone noticed that "holistic" has been so commonly used as a buzzword for BS that it kinda makes the word seem like a bad thing even though 'holisitic' should at worst be neutral?
  22. Marge

    Marge

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    Doctors have to be smart. Hard work and a passion for helping others are not enough.

    Ad hominem much? Did I brag about how many medical schools accepted me? Take one of these

    [​IMG]

    :) "Permaculture." I had never heard of that. It will only cost you $15,000 in tuition/fess for one year.
  23. gatorade848

    gatorade848

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    a sarcastic troll? how interesting...
  24. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Moderator

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    I actually lived next to the one in Phoenix. That picture does not do it credit: it's a renovated middle school from the appearance out front. I always regret never going to tour it before I moved east.
  25. tenndoc

    tenndoc bringer of sarcasm

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    Lol no
  26. Marge

    Marge

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    [​IMG]

    And here we were thinking MDs are experts on pathophysiology... WRONG! ;)

    Edit: Sorry the picture is so big.
  27. Nymphicus

    Nymphicus kane o ke kai Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    Straight from the AANP (American Association of Naturopathic Physicians):


    Naturopathic physicians combine the wisdom of nature with the rigors of modern science.

    It is the naturopathic physician’s role to identify and remove barriers to good health by helping to create a healing internal and external environment.

    NDs treat all medical conditions

    A licensed naturopathic physician (ND) attends a four-year, graduate-level naturopathic medical school and is educated in all of the same basic sciences as an MD, but also studies holistic and nontoxic approaches to therapy with a strong emphasis on disease prevention and optimizing wellness. In addition to a standard medical curriculum, the naturopathic physician is required to complete four years of training in clinical nutrition, acupuncture, homeopathic medicine, botanical medicine, psychology, and counseling


    So there we have it folks. In conclusion, ND > MD.
  28. Marge

    Marge

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    Oh Jesus Christ. Medical school AND four years of additional training in botanical medicine etc.? Wow...
  29. tenndoc

    tenndoc bringer of sarcasm

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    So your basis is that since you take more credits in some courses, your curriculum is better and nd>md/do? Riiiiiiight
  30. Marge

    Marge

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    U mirin my curriculum brah?

    Just kidding. I'm pre-(real) medicine. That's the chart the quacks use. I provided it for informative purposes only.
  31. tenndoc

    tenndoc bringer of sarcasm

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    Sry. On my phone. Misread who said what :)
  32. Nymphicus

    Nymphicus kane o ke kai Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    NDs view the patient as a complex, interrelated system (a whole person), not as a clogged artery or a tumor.

    http://naturopathic.org/content.asp?contentid=59



    Have fun trotting of to your MD/DO schools where you learn to treat the symptoms, not the patient.
  33. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Moderator

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  34. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Moderator

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    I've been perusing some naturopathic medical school youtube videos, southwest has a bushel of goodies.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qZ3uf5zS40&feature=autoplay&list=PL4472DC9EC23F5884&playnext=2

    Things I've learned so far from watching them:
    1) Type II diabetes is mostly caused by insufficient intake of the appropriate nutrients
    2) Type II diabetes at any stage, including insulin dependence, has a good chance of being cured(there is a hint of truth in this one, but the claim is too broad)
    3) Insulin is the first line drug (and maybe only??) for type II diabetes.
    4)Hydrotherapy works by causing blood vessels to pump blood, allowing superior blood flow and removal of toxins from unhealthy tissues.
    5) Chronic diseases are best treated by a combination of ND, chinese medicine doctor, homeopathic physician, chiropractor and I wasn't sure but they may have have also said MD/DO.

    I'm going to watch all of them to subsidize my regular diet of quackcast.
  35. Nymphicus

    Nymphicus kane o ke kai Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    You must have misheard that part.

    We all know the reason why people go to MD/DO school.

    [​IMG]
  36. mrbliss

    mrbliss

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    .
    Last edited: 10.02.13
  37. mrbliss

    mrbliss

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    Last edited: 10.02.13
  38. Nymphicus

    Nymphicus kane o ke kai Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    Do I sound sarcastic to you?



    NDs and MDs are alike in many ways. Both attend a four-year medical school after completing pre-med classes and a bachelor's degree. In Washington State, both NDs and MDs are required to pass rigorous professional board exams and to maintain a medical license that demands accountability and ongoing medical education. Both are recognized as Primary Care Physicians (PCP). In clinical practice, both NDs and MDs evaluate a patient using diagnostic interviews, physical exams and lab tests. Both then treat disease, decrease risk factors and prolong lives. The primary difference lies in the focus of their training and their treatment approaches.


    A Licensed Naturopathic Physician (ND) attends a four-year graduate level naturopathic medical school after completing a standard pre-med program and receiving a Bachelor of Science degree. The curriculum includes the same basic sciences found in a conventional medical school*, yet with additional studies in holistic and nontoxic natural therapies.

    *
    Graduates of accredited naturopathic medical colleges are required to have more hours of study in basic sciences and clinical sciences than graduates of Yale or Stanford medical schools. They also receive more formal training in therapeutic nutrition than MDs, osteopathic physicians and registered dietitians. And unlike MDs, Naturopaths draw from a wide variety of health disciplines including: European spa therapy, traditional Chinese medicine/acupuncture, and Ayurvedic medicine to name a few.

    http://www.theholistichealthclinic.com/Understand.html





    Yeah, take that, Yale and Stanford medical schools. Looks to me like medical schools (MD, not ND) are still in the dark ages.
  39. kexy

    kexy

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    Seriously, why don't MD schools require core clerkships in European spa therapy?
  40. gatorade848

    gatorade848

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    :rofl:
  41. compshateme85

    compshateme85

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    What I don't get, is after all those biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, pathology, histology classes etc, the people taking them can then sit there and listen to how diet can cure cancer AND BELIEVE IT.

    There is such a huge cognitive disconnect, I must be missing something.
  42. gatorade848

    gatorade848

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    isnt that what doctors used to do in the middle ages with leaches or just a sharp knife? you know just letting the patients bleed hoping to remove toxins in the process? lol
  43. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Moderator

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    I personally would love to go sit in on some classes. Some of the schools let you be a "student for a day", so I may sign up next time I'm in phoenix.
  44. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Moderator

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    Sorta, it was based on the equally flawed idea that bleeding put the body back into balance due to the excess sanguine temperment/blood.
  45. mabindaby

    mabindaby Still Alive

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    Didn't you know? Quality<Quantity
  46. gatorade848

    gatorade848

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    nice profile pic lol
  47. Jarudy

    Jarudy

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    Can't believe people pay that much money in tuition...Bastyr specifcally
  48. zma21

    zma21

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    The owner of a local health food store that I shop at has an ND degree. I live in a college town, and she struck up a conversation asking what I wanted to do after I graduated. I said "medical school" to which she replied, "I went to medical school. It was really hard". She then told me she had her ND. I had no idea what she was talking about.

    This is probably exactly what happened to DO's 80 years ago haha.
  49. zma21

    zma21

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    From the Washington Association of Naturopathic Physicians* (I was interested/terrified of their scope of practice)

    "NDs use a variety of therapies to promote health and treat disease including: dietetics, therapeutic nutrition, botanical medicine, physical medicine, naturopathic manipulative therapy..."

    Oh lawd.
  50. Nymphicus

    Nymphicus kane o ke kai Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor

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    +1 for monkey king



    Get off your high horse. ND's are simply the next evolution of the MD as far as I can tell. It is natural that MD's and pre-med students would feel threatened.

    Can MD's do this?

    [​IMG]


    Didn't think so

    (also from the same website)

    Wellness&#8211; Wellness follows the establishment and maintenance of optimum health and balance. Wellness is a state of being healthy, characterized by positive emotion, thought and action. Wellness is inherent in everyone, no matter what dis-ease(s) is/are being experienced. If wellness is really recognized and experienced by an individual, it will more quickly heal a given dis-ease than direct treatment of the dis-ease alone. (This principle was adopted by Bastyr University and added to the six principles.)

    http://www.bastyrcenter.org/content/view/113/


    THE POWER OF EMOTION COMPELS YOU

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