Nd > md ?

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theseeker4 said:
Any scientifically proven "natural ways of curing disease" are called medicine, not "alternative" or "naturopathic" medicine. Anyone who promotes "natural" cures WITHOUT being willing to hold their "cure" to the same standards as the rest of medicine, IS a quack and is NOT deserving of the same consideration as real science.
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True. Niacin has been used to treat hypercholesterolemia quite effectively, but I want medical doctors to give patients statins, every day.
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Well, as long as we're digging up old threads, I thought this comment was especially funny...


zma21 said:
The owner of a local health food store that I shop at has an ND degree. I live in a college town, and she struck up a conversation asking what I wanted to do after I graduated. I said "medical school" to which she replied, "I went to medical school. It was really hard". She then told me she had her ND. I had no idea what she was talking about.
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She has a doctorate*, yet works in a health-food store? :laugh:



*Granted, a doctorate in naturopathy, but it's a doctorate-level degree nevertheless.
 
Spinach Dip said:
Well, as long as we're digging up old threads, I thought this comment was especially funny...





She has a doctorate*, yet works in a health-food store? :laugh:



*Granted, a doctorate in naturopathy, but it's a doctorate-level degree nevertheless.
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There is no external standard for what constitutes "doctorate". You'd be surprised the things people are slapping that title onto nowadays.
 
Spinach Dip said:
Well, as long as we're digging up old threads, I thought this comment was especially funny...





She has a doctorate*, yet works in a health-food store? :laugh:



*Granted, a doctorate in naturopathy, but it's a doctorate-level degree nevertheless.
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Bro, read closer.

She was the owner.





:smuggrin:
 
SpecterGT260 said:
There is no external standard for what constitutes "doctorate". You'd be surprised the things people are slapping that title onto nowadays.
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I was charting a patient the other day when in walked a nurse claiming she had a doctorate in nursing and we were to refer to her as "Dr. High-Strung" from now on.

What kind of hogwash is that? I'm going to get my doctorate in Janitorial Services. :laugh:













:scared:
 
Mehd School said:
I was charting a patient the other day when in walked a nurse claiming she had a doctorate in nursing and we were to refer to her as "Dr. High-Strung" from now on.

What kind of hogwash is that? I'm going to get my doctorate in Janitorial Services. :laugh:













:scared:
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Was she serious? I hope you told her where to shove it....

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SpecterGT260 said:
Was she serious? I hope you told her where to shove it....

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I did, and still do refer to her literally as "Doctor-Nurse High-strung".

It's starting to catch on, and this is really adding fuel to her fire. My thoughts on the BS of all of this are outside the scope of this thread. :laugh:
 
Ooooooh. Owner. Big freaking difference.

The ND schools are trying to pass this off as an equivalent alternative to MD/DO programs, so where are all the naturopaths working in hospitals? How many go on to residencies in anesthesia, cardiology, or surgery? What is the average income of a ND compared to a MD?



These "schools" look like the latest ripoff scam. Tell people that they're not only going to be doctors... they're going to be better than doctors. But upon graduation, it turns out that the only place that will hire you is the local natural foods store. Or selling herbal supplements. The lucky ones might start their own business...

I'm sorry. It's just hilarious.
 
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I took a medical terminology class last year. On one test we slightly covered alternative medicine, and got a bonus point if we could elaborate a little on the subject.

I filled the back page of the ND disaster, and my professor gave me a big +10 and LOL'd when he handed my test back.

I should have told him I was just accepted to Bastyr. : /
 
The reason why the MD, DO, PhDs are respectable in this day and age is because these degrees study the science and test it. The respect of the degrees comes from the studies that they do and publish.

The ND could get more approval if they tested their medications and therapies through studies. By subjecting people with the ND degree through scientific testing, the degree would have more impact.

Until then, the people with the ND degrees won't get the respect they want.
 
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IslandStyle808 said:
The reason why the MD, DO, PhDs are respectable in this day and age is because these degrees study the science and test it. The respect of the degrees comes from the studies that they do and publish.

The ND could get more approval if they tested their medications and therapies through studies. By subjecting people with the ND degree through scientific testing, the degree would have more impact.

Until then, the people with the ND degrees won't get the respect they want.
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And therein lies the rub, that ninety percent of what is espoused by NDs and the like (made the number up) is BS that couldn't withstand the most superficial scientific examination. Relying on testimonials, appeals to the lay public's distrust of doctors, big pharm, authority in general, and their overall inability to understand scientific claims being made all leads to "alternative" practitioners having a ready and willing niche market happily pouring money into their pockets. The portions of ND, chiropractor, etc. treatment that is valid (whatever that portion is) is buried in the quackery and hence dismissed with the rest. Add in the fact that as soon as there is good science behind the "alternative" treatment, mainstream medicine adopts it and you are left with a lot of reasons NDs have to avoid subjecting their practices to scientific rigor, and very few reasons for them to do so. After all, if an ND tried to publish a real, scientific examination of their treatments, Big Pharm would just suppress it with the help of evil mainstream physicians....:rolleyes:
 
Is it just me, or will people in ANY field of healthcare find some way to refer to themselves as " Dr. X"? Its crazy. If you want to be a doctor go to med school...not nursing school....not naturopath school.....go to med school.
 
Ost3oclast said:
Is it just me, or will people in ANY field of healthcare find some way to refer to themselves as " Dr. X"? Its crazy. If you want to be a doctor go to med school...not nursing school....not naturopath school.....go to med school.
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If you go back 60 years there was another group commonly found on that list :smuggrin:

However, I agree. I liken the issue to our culture of rewarding people for nothing. The first little league team knocked out of the tournament gets a trophy, the nurse who took an online class gets a doctorate :shrug: It's complete crap.
 
SpecterGT260 said:
If you go back 60 years there was another group commonly found on that list :smuggrin:

However, I agree. I liken the issue to our culture of rewarding people for nothing. The first little league team knocked out of the tournament gets a trophy, the nurse who took an online class gets a doctorate :shrug: It's complete crap.
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Touche!! Hahaha at least that group decided to go into science/evidence based medicine (with one exception) ;) at least we aren't left out in the cold anymore!
 
theseeker4 said:
And therein lies the rub, that ninety percent of what is espoused by NDs and the like (made the number up) is BS that couldn't withstand the most superficial scientific examination. Relying on testimonials, appeals to the lay public's distrust of doctors, big pharm, authority in general, and their overall inability to understand scientific claims being made all leads to "alternative" practitioners having a ready and willing niche market happily pouring money into their pockets. The portions of ND, chiropractor, etc. treatment that is valid (whatever that portion is) is buried in the quackery and hence dismissed with the rest. Add in the fact that as soon as there is good science behind the "alternative" treatment, mainstream medicine adopts it and you are left with a lot of reasons NDs have to avoid subjecting their practices to scientific rigor, and very few reasons for them to do so. After all, if an ND tried to publish a real, scientific examination of their treatments, Big Pharm would just suppress it with the help of evil mainstream physicians....:rolleyes:
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Good point. I wonder if this was also true for osteopathic physicians back in the day. If I remember correctly, "mainstream medicine" in the 1900s was suppressing the efforts that were being made by osteopathic physicians to enhance their field. I don't know if the government had something to do with it but DO degree was not standing very well at the time.
 
Ost3oclast said:
Is it just me, or will people in ANY field of healthcare find some way to refer to themselves as " Dr. X"? Its crazy. If you want to be a doctor go to med school...not nursing school....not naturopath school.....go to med school.
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i have a "friend" (in quotes because I haven't talked to her in a few years) that is at a naturopathic school and she tells everyone she's in med school. Can you blame her? They get way more "clinical and modality training".

http://www.aanmc.org/PDF/CurricComp.pdf
 
Mbeas said:
i have a "friend" (in quotes because I haven't talked to her in a few years) that is at a naturopathic school and she tells everyone she's in med school. Can you blame her? They get way more "clinical and modality training".

http://www.aanmc.org/PDF/CurricComp.pdf
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my gf knows someone just like that. A girl in ND school who constantly posts on FB about the woes of being a med student, and then posts tons of nonsense natural crap.

Did you know GMOs are killing us? :laugh:
Personally I find it insulting to be compared to people who use such little rational thought in their day to day lives.

That chart is only the first 2 years, btw. I personally have issues with any training method that sticks people in the clinic before they have been made to understand the principles upon which their treatments and procedures are built. But most quack professions work this way. Mostly because they dont have access to truly sick patients, access to modalities that can be harmful if misunderstood and misused, and arent performing anything of any real utility anyways. Apparently one does not need a license to deal in placebo :thumbup:
 
Hmmm. Not sure how I feel about this. The libertarian in me wants everyone to be able to freely engage in a contract.

But the rational thinking in me wants to question the medical legitimacy of ND methods.
 
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Mbeas said:
i have a "friend" (in quotes because I haven't talked to her in a few years) that is at a naturopathic school and she tells everyone she's in med school. Can you blame her? They get way more "clinical and modality training".

http://www.aanmc.org/PDF/CurricComp.pdf
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Ignore quote.
Just wanted to say your avatar got the old Johnson out of bed.


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pre med 2014 said:
Hmmm. Not sure how I feel about this. The libertarian in me wants everyone to be able to freely engage in a contract.

But the rational thinking in me wants to question the medical legitimacy of ND methods.
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There is no conflict with letting people freely engage in a contract while also pointing out all the scientific flaws and complete BS the people freely engaging in that contract are paying good money for.....
 
Naturopaths get to make tea! How cool is that?

"Formulated by a master herbalist who is a faculty member in botanical medicine and ayurvedic sciences at Bastyr University, the teas are designed to support healthy body functions and enhance wellness, while at the same time providing a pleasing taste."


About Bastyr University

Bastyr University is internationally recognized as a pioneer in natural medicine. As the largest accredited university for natural health arts and sciences in the U.S., Bastyr's campus located near Seattle, Washington, offers more than 17 degree and certificate programs in such fields as naturopathic medicine, acupuncture and Oriental medicine, and whole-food nutrition. Founded in 1978, the university now includes a leading-edge research facility (the Bastyr University Research Institute) and outstanding clinical training at Bastyr Center for Natural Health, ranked as one of the Puget Sound's top medical facilities for patient experience in 2012. The University's second campus, Bastyr University California opened in San Diego, in fall 2012, becoming California's first and only accredited school of naturopathic medicine.

http://www.massagemag.com/News/mass...wellness-teas-with-choice-organic-teas&title=
 
Are there dual degree ND/MD programs? I am not sure I can make tea as a doc. :p
 
La Presse said:
Are there dual degree ND/MD programs? I am not sure I can make tea as a doc. :p
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I got accepted to an ND/PhD program two weeks ago! I didn't say anything because no one would believe me! Post this everywhere! I'm so lucky!!!
 
Agent B said:
I got accepted to an ND/PhD program two weeks ago! I didn't say anything because no one would believe me! Post this everywhere! I'm so lucky!!!
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Hell yeah!! Are you part of the NSTP program or the traditional ND/PhD? Also, stats? :cool:
 
SpecterGT260 said:
What are the chances that he isnt licensed to use his MD anymore? I haven't read up on him... just can't see why someone with a valid MD would be working there.

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Because an ND/MD has a versatile knowledge of medicine unlike the traditional MDs.
 
Unfortunately there was a lot of pushback from regular members and even some of the moderation staff (shame on them!) so the merger is being postponed for now but will be revisited in the future.

It's too bad the forum merger was stopped. How else will people find out that NDs treat all medical conditions and can provide both individual and family health care????

And that some of the most common ailments they treat are allergies, chronic pain, digestive issues, hormonal imbalances, obesity, respiratory conditions, heart disease, fertility problems, menopause, adrenal fatigue, cancer, fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome???

http://naturopathic.org/content.asp?pl=16&sl=60&contentid=60
 
Adrenal fatigue......

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This is an April Fools joke, correct?
 
Nymphicus said:
Unfortunately there was a lot of pushback from regular members and even some of the moderation staff (shame on them!) so the merger is being postponed for now but will be revisited in the future.

It's too bad the forum merger was stopped. How else will people find out that NDs treat all medical conditions and can provide both individual and family health care????

And that some of the most common ailments they treat are allergies, chronic pain, digestive issues, hormonal imbalances, obesity, respiratory conditions, heart disease, fertility problems, menopause, adrenal fatigue, cancer, fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome???

http://naturopathic.org/content.asp?pl=16&sl=60&contentid=60
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Surely I get credit for helping out, right?

nysegop said:
This is an April Fools joke, correct?
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Wrong
 
I went to a new PCP to get a physical and fill out some immunization records and I notice a price list for the naturopath who shares office space....$450 for an initial consult. WTF? I felt really bad for my doc. He'd be lucky to get 20% of that reimbursed for my 45min office visit. Plus, I'm sure that naturopath doesn't let a patient leave without upselling them on a number of products.
 
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