Need advice for reapplication for 2015-16 cycle

[lysozym392]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone can help me out/give advice for my school list. I graduated in 2014 and am currently in a glide year. I had 4 interviews, 2 post-interview rejections and the other 2 have wait listed me (RWJ and NJMS). I’m preparing for the worst so I can have my application filled out so that by June 1 I can hit submit. Even though next year’s AMCAS isn’t going to be live until May, I just wanted to gleam any advice from fellow SDNers.

Some stats about me:

1)3.6-3.7 uGPA, 3.5-3.6 science GPA; science major ("traditional," if you want)
2)MCAT: 1st try 31 (11PS 10VR 10BS); 2nd try 33 (13PS 9VR 11BS)
3)Above average hospital volunteering as a research assistant (more than 500 hours accrued over 2.5 years): 1 summer researching GI, 2+yrs (currently) researching for an internal medicine doctor. Listed as co-author in 3 abstracts and 2 posters.
4)Worked as an MA at an ophthalmology office for 14 months (LOTS of hands-on; amazing experience)
5)Above average ECs (involved in cultural society, co-wrote 2 original musicals, arranged a cappella, tutored high schoolers for SATs)
6)shadowed GI MDs, a cardiologist, 2 ophthalmologists, and a peds PA (total of ~70hrs shadowing - complete 10-12hr shifts)
7)NJ state resident, but worked in NYC a lot and went to school in NYC
8) GPA downward trend freshman=> junior year, but KILLED IT senior year (3.91)

Current list of schools for reapplication (not in any particular order)
1.Robert Wood
2.NJMS
3.Cooper Rowan
4.George Washington
5.Georgetown
6.UKentucky (I have strong ties to Kentucky)
7.NYMC
8.Einstein (a reach and I know it)
9.Mt. Sinai (also a reach and I know it)
10.NYU (same comment as 8 and 9 XD; you never know!)
11.Hofstra/LIJ
12.Tufts

I’m also planning to apply to 3-4 DO schools, haven’t decided which ones; I know that Rowan DO will be one; I am an NJ resident after all. Aiming to apply to 18 schools (MD + DO). Any advice to help me round out or edit my list? Am I being too optimistic for AE/Sinai/NYU?

Other things to note:
-After submitting to AMCAS last year, I got a job, so I couldn’t include it in my app, but it will be for my future one.
-I’m applying to graduate programs to keep my busy through the coming school year. I think it will also show adcoms that I’m not stagnant.
-Despite my competitive/middle-of-the-pack stats, I submitted late last year (last week of June). I think this is what killed me for this current cycle. SO IF YOU’RE A FIRST TIME APPLICANT READING THIS DON’T MAKE MY MISTAKE AND GET IT DONE ASAP!

Thanks!

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[breakintheroof]

Hi @lysozym392, I hope you get off waitlists, but if not, it is good you are being proactive. Let me chip in a little bit here.

-After submitting to AMCAS last year, I got a job, so I couldn’t include it in my app, but it will be for my future one.
-I’m applying to graduate programs to keep my busy through the coming school year. I think it will also show adcoms that I’m not stagnant.

I'm curious, what kind of grad programs, and how long do they last? What are you hoping to do with your graduate training? Could you not continue in your current job next year, if you wanted to do that instead?

I’m also planning to apply to 3-4 DO schools, haven’t decided which ones; I know that Rowan DO will be one; I am an NJ resident after all. Aiming to apply to 18 schools (MD + DO). Any advice to help me round out or edit my list? Am I being too optimistic for AE/Sinai/NYU?

Let me also take a stab at the schools you've listed here (coloring and italics mine, I am sorry it is so visually offensive):

1.Robert Wood 2.NJMS 3.Cooper Rowan
4.George Washington 5.Georgetown -- these two are low-yield, they get 13,000+ applications
6.UKentucky -- I know too little about this school to advise
7.NYMC
8.Einstein 9.Mt. Sinai 10. NYU -- three significant reaches, that is too many
11.Hofstra/LIJ
12.Tufts -- 11,000+ applications, similar GW/Georgetown

If you are going to limit yourself to 12-14 MD schools and you want to have a good shot at getting in MD, you should shift away from reaches and schools that get 10,000+ applications. A couple of these could be OK, you just can't count on them giving you a shot. I submit that you may have to look further afield than Boston/NYC/DC(/Lexington).

Also, where did you apply this cycle? Where were your other interviews? I am no expert but it seems that the general advice to reapplicants is to make sure you include a fair number of schools you did not previously apply to. Applying DO is a good move, but as your present cycle shows, you stand a reasonable chance at MD. Just need the right schools!

Good luck!

 

[Doug Underhill]

I would work on interviewing if I were you. Your stats aren't the problem.

 

[Vain Brother]

1) you've probably got a good shot at getting off of one of those wait lists if you're in-state
2) end of june is not that late. assuming you got your secondaries done quickly, this was not the problem
3) what was your school list? if it's the same list as the one you gave us, that is problem #1. much too small, and too many reaches. even hofstra is probably a reach for you now -- your stats are a bit below their averages. you'll need to expand out of the greater NYC area to have a realistic shot, especially now considering you're a reapplicant
4) as doug said -- interviewing skills should be concerning if you got 4 interviews and no offers.

 

[lysozym392]

Thanks for the input everyone!

2) end of june is not that late. assuming you got your secondaries done quickly, this was not the problem
3) what was your school list? if it's the same list as the one you gave us, that is problem #1. much too small, and too many reaches. even hofstra is probably a reach for you now -- your stats are a bit below their averages. you'll need to expand out of the greater NYC area to have a realistic shot, especially now considering you're a reapplicant
4) as doug said -- interviewing skills should be concerning if you got 4 interviews and no offers.

In response to each (in order)
1. I submitted to Amcas end of june, everything processed 4.5 weeks later. Got a flood of secondaries and some personal things happened between july and september that I was completely unprepared for. I'm not sure if that's a "good enough reason" for late secondaries, but that's the only reason. I submitted my last secondary first week of october.
2. In my original school list, I included #1-10 and 12 on this list. Also applied to U of Louisville, Columbia (to appease my mother; I am realistic and knew I had zero chance w/ my metrics despite my ECs), Temple, and Rush.
3. I spoke w/ my mentor and my uncle and they said the same thing - 4 interviews out of 15 apps with no immediate offers. Although 2 waitlists is not the end of the world

Hi @lysozym392
I'm curious, what kind of grad programs, and how long do they last? What are you hoping to do with your graduate training? Could you not continue in your current job next year, if you wanted to do that instead?

I'm looking at MS programs that take 1 academic year (10 months, as some schools express the time commitment). I'm looking into physiology/medical sciences programs (NOT SMPs, although my uncle said that it can't hurt if SMP-type programs are meant to strengthen applications...). I could continue my current job, but I'm thinking against doing that for two reasons: it's not a medical job and it's becoming very tedious. The only upside to the job is how much satisfaction I gain from it and the high hourly rate (but no benefits:/).

Edit: i didn't answer the "what are you hoping to do w/ graduate training?". My answer: I want to remain competitive and keep my mind active. Like I said, my job is getting increasingly tedious and I want something new. If I decide to change gears down the road, I want to use my masters as a stepping stone to PhD programs, and perhaps even academia.

I know it's going to be an additional cost but hey, med school isn't cheap either. I'm aiming for 1 year programs or 1 year plus a summer programs so that I can finish my degree and then matriculate.

All things considered, I think I shot myself in the foot with late secondaries and my interviewing skills may not be so good.

 

[lysozym392]

If you are going to limit yourself to 12-14 MD schools and you want to have a good shot at getting in MD, you should shift away from reaches and schools that get 10,000+ applications. A couple of these could be OK, you just can't count on them giving you a shot. I submit that you may have to look further afield than Boston/NYC/DC(/Lexington).

I included GW and Tufts as it had been months since sending in their secondaries before I received a rejection letter. I interpret this to mean I was in consideration for an II longer than average. Or maybe not; only the admissions gods know.

I'm including GTown because they were one of my 4 interviews (the 4th was NYMC). I figured if I can manage to get an II the first time, then the effect of improving my app (adding the things I did in the interim, also going to grad school) and submitting the AMCAS and secondary early could reasonably get me a second II and another chance. Or maybe not, we'll see XD.

I probably won't include 2 of AE/Sinai/NYU, and probably keep Georgetown and change GW and Tufts

 

[breakintheroof]

First, credit where credit is due: @Doug Underhill is right. Take a look at your interviewing skills. Four interviews with two waitlists could be okay, but you'd be remiss if you didn't try and work on it.

Got a flood of secondaries and some personal things happened between july and september that I was completely unprepared for. I'm not sure if that's a "good enough reason" for late secondaries, but that's the only reason. I submitted my last secondary first week of october.

This was indeed a problem. I hope that your personal things have resolved. These will need to be earlier this time!

In my original school list, I included #1-10 and 12 on this list. Also applied to U of Louisville, Columbia (to appease my mother; I am realistic and knew I had zero chance w/ my metrics despite my ECs), Temple, and Rush.

I included GW and Tufts as it had been months since sending in their secondaries before I received a rejection letter. I interpret this to mean I was in consideration for an II longer than average. Or maybe not; only the admissions gods know.

I'm including GTown because they were one of my 4 interviews (the 4th was NYMC). I figured if I can manage to get an II the first time, then the effect of improving my app (adding the things I did in the interim, also going to grad school) and submitting the AMCAS and secondary early could reasonably get me a second II and another chance. Or maybe not, we'll see XD.

I probably won't include 2 of AE/Sinai/NYU, and probably keep Georgetown and change GW and Tufts

Please don't just apply to the same schools as last time. You'll need fresh blood in there.

I would not read anything into the timing of your rejections from GW and Tufts. Since you interviewed at Georgetown it seems OK to include, but perhaps search this year's Georgetown thread for reapplicant experiences there.

Since you had included Temple and Rush, it sounds like you're open to other cities. I'd look into Drexel, Jefferson, Loyola, Rosalind Franklin, SLU, Creighton, and Wake Forest, for instance. Also maybe Quinnipiac, Penn State, EVMS, Miami.

 

[breakintheroof]

I'm looking at MS programs that take 1 academic year (10 months, as some schools express the time commitment). I'm looking into physiology/medical sciences programs (NOT SMPs, although my uncle said that it can't hurt if SMP-type programs are meant to strengthen applications...). I could continue my current job, but I'm thinking against doing that for two reasons: it's not a medical job and it's becoming very tedious. The only upside to the job is how much satisfaction I gain from it and the high hourly rate (but no benefits:/).

Edit: i didn't answer the "what are you hoping to do w/ graduate training?". My answer: I want to remain competitive and keep my mind active. Like I said, my job is getting increasingly tedious and I want something new. If I decide to change gears down the road, I want to use my masters as a stepping stone to PhD programs, and perhaps even academia.

I don't know how to advise you on this master's during reapplication year idea. I confess I felt the same pull to go off and do some kind of degree when I thought I might not be able to pull things together in time to apply last year. But how it might look to adcoms, I don't know--perhaps @gyngyn would be kind enough to weigh in?

 

[Vain Brother]

First, credit where credit is due: @Doug Underhill is right. Take a look at your interviewing skills. Four interviews with two waitlists could be okay, but you'd be remiss if you didn't try and work on it.

This was indeed a problem. I hope that your personal things have resolved. These will need to be earlier this time!


Please don't just apply to the same schools as last time. You'll need fresh blood in there.

I would not read anything into the timing of your rejections from GW and Tufts. Since you interviewed at Georgetown it seems OK to include, but perhaps search this year's Georgetown thread for reapplicant experiences there.

Since you had included Temple and Rush, it sounds like you're open to other cities. I'd look into Drexel, Jefferson, Loyola, Rosalind Franklin, SLU, Creighton, and Wake Forest, for instance. Also maybe Quinnipiac, Penn State, EVMS, Miami.

you can keep einstein but i'd drop the other two

you need to add other lower-tier schools, and newer schools. you also need to consider expanding beyond the NYC/boston/DC area. doug's suggestions are a good start

 

[Doug Underhill]

I would suggest Oakland, Albany, Creighton, Quinnipiac, the Philly triplets, Loyola, Rush, and maybe Commonwealth and MCW. Consider SLU, Penn State, and Vermont as well: you're still in the running there.

Touro-NY and PCOM are also both great schools that you would be competitive at. The quality of medical education and student body there is comparable to the lower tier MDs you're getting rejected from at the moment.

Also, Ph.D programs don't want med school rejects. They want people who are legitimately serious about research and the interviews there are just as rigorous (although much cheaper due to the school paying the bill). How would you feel about working 60 or more hours a week on research for six years of grad school + seven years of post-doc? That's what it takes to make tenure track these days, and you also have to spend your thirties living in super-expensive places like Palo Alto on a $52,000 salary, which is not very much money at all.

 

[lysozym392]

@Vain Brother @breakintheroof @Doug Underhill you all have been amazingly helpful in the past 10hrs! Thank you so much!

@Doug Underhill what do you mean by "Philly triplets"? Are you referring to Jefferson, Temple, and Drexel?

I think I'm going to try for 7 schools I previously applied to, 7 new MD programs (TBD), and 4 DO schools.

 

[breakintheroof]

@Doug Underhill what do you mean by "Philly triplets"? Are you referring to Jefferson, Temple, and Drexel?

Yep, that's what Doug means. (I think the term is @Goro's.) They also suffer from getting a zillion applications, particularly Drexel (although they have a huge class), but they are pretty good matches otherwise.

I think I'm going to try for 7 schools I previously applied to, 7 new MD programs (TBD), and 4 DO schools.

If you're stuck on 18, that seems okay. I'd recommend a few more if you can, maybe. All of the ones Doug suggested are pretty good, so put 'em in your spreadsheet of possible places.

 

[Goro]

Yeah, they're like GWU and Gtown in terms of apps received, but the odds of getting an interview are higher, and also an acceptance. Gtown and GWU are harder to get interviewed for, and accepted into, than Harvard!


They also suffer from getting a zillion applications, particularly Drexel (although they have a huge class), but they are pretty good matches otherwise.

 

[lysozym392]

@breakintheroof at the moment, I am kind of stuck at 18; I would apply to 20+ if I were to go all MD. I have enough funds for 18 schools right now. I'm trying not to ask for too much help from my parents as money is tight.

 

[breakintheroof]

@breakintheroof at the moment, I am kind of stuck at 18; I would apply to 20+ if I were to go all MD. I have enough funds for 18 schools right now. I'm trying not to ask for too much help from my parents as money is tight.

Well, reality has a way of setting its own rules. Maybe this could work for 18 schools:

MD, reapplication (7):
Three NJ schools (had interviewed at two)
NYMC (had interviewed)
Hofstra
Georgetown, maybe (had interviewed)
Kentucky, maybe (triple-check that you have any shot OOS even with ties)

MD, non-reapplication (7):
Albany
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
TCMC
Quinnipiac
SLU

DO (4):
Touro-NY
PCOM
Isn't there a NJ DO school?
Another DO school

You could swap out the non-reapplication MD schools I suggested with any of the others that have been mentioned in this thread, or similar ones that you prefer. I don't know them (or you) well enough to say which ones might be best for you.

 

[Vain Brother]

this is honestly maybe not the most sound advice i've ever given, but if money is an issue, i'd go ahead and put all your eggs in the MD basket with 20+ applications, rather than limit those and apply to a few DO. assuming you do better about applying early and work on your interviewing skills, i would be very surprised if you didn't get in somewhere

 

[lysozym392]

I have for MD:
1-3) NJ schools (RWJ, NJMS, Cooper Rowan)
4) UK (I have ties, above their MCAT medians in each category, around 50%ile in uGPA; key is getting in their secondary in early as their class fills up by late November/early December)
5) NYMC
6) GTown
7) AE
I didn't apply to Hofstra this cycle, but I did apply to Temple

New MD programs that I'm interested in but still need to research and narrow down:
1) Med Coll of Wisconsin
2) EVMS
3) Albany
4) Drexel
5) Univ. of Illinois College of Medicine
6) VCU
7) Quinnipiac
8) St. Louis (cursory look thru MSAR makes me think this is a reach for my stats?)

DO Schools:
1) Cooper Rowan, NJ (yes, has both MD and DO)
2) NYCOM
3) PCOM
4) Touro NY

 

[lysozym392]

this is honestly maybe not the most sound advice i've ever given, but if money is an issue, i'd go ahead and put all your eggs in the MD basket with 20+ applications, rather than limit those and apply to a few DO.

Some times a little crazy is a good thing

 

[breakintheroof]

I have for MD:
1-3) NJ schools (RWJ, NJMS, Cooper Rowan)
4) UK (I have ties, above their MCAT medians in each category, around 50%ile in uGPA; key is getting in their secondary in early as their class fills up by late November/early December)
5) NYMC
6) GTown
7) AE
I didn't apply to Hofstra this cycle, but I did apply to Temple

New MD programs that I'm interested in but still need to research and narrow down:
1) Med Coll of Wisconsin
2) EVMS
3) Albany
4) Drexel
5) Univ. of Illinois College of Medicine
6) VCU
7) Quinnipiac
8) St. Louis (cursory look thru MSAR makes me think this is a reach for my stats?)

DO Schools:
1) Cooper Rowan, NJ (yes, has both MD and DO)
2) NYCOM
3) PCOM
4) Touro NY

Good catch on SLU, not sure why I underestimated them! I'd watch out for Illinois' out of state tuition, over $75,000/year.

Other than that, I think I'm at the limit of my advising abilities here, and I think you got this. Good luck!

 

[Xylene]

I was in a similar situation to yours last year, and was pulled off an MD waitlist in the summer. Only difference was I had applied to the tri state DO schools as part of my first application (Rowan, PCOM and NYCOM). I hope you get pulled off the waitlists this year, but it is good that you are planning ahead. I think your stats put you at a solid shot for MD as long as you broaden your application. Your new list you have now looks pretty good.

If money is an issue, you can realistically get away with dropping 1-2 of those DO schools for 2 more MD schools. Regardless of how many DO schools you decide to drop, keep Rowan. If you are instate its pretty much the best case scenario if an MD cycle doesn't work out. I am almost certain with your stats you will get a Rowan DO acceptance very very early in the reapplication if it came to it (I'm assuming you are NJ instate).

Based on personal experience UVM, Drexel, Albany, VCU and Quinnipiac are all good choices for your new cycle if it comes down to it. Good luck!