Need help on what program to choose

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

cebiddle

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
So currently I am decided between a MA in Psychology and MS in Mental Health Counseling. I plan to pursue my Ph.D in Counseling Psych.

Currently my GPA is a 3.8, I am a Psych Major and an Accounting Major.
I have one semester of working in a research lab.
I volunteer at my church with the youth group and am also on the parish council.
GRE scores: Verbal 153, Quan. 155, AW 4.5

Given my current profile what would be the best option for me to pursue, to eventually get a Ph.D?

Members don't see this ad.
 
MA or MS in an Experimental Psychology degree program and/or a program that requires a thesis. Programs that lead to a licensure aren't meant to be stepping stones to doctoral training. Can people in doctoral programs have experience from an MSW program or MHC program...sure, is it common...no.
 
I know the MA in Psychology will help with the research aspect of my application criteria, but the MS in Mental Health Counseling will help with my practical work/volunteer experience, which is important for the researcher/practitioner model that many of the Counseling Psychology programs are. I just don't know which one I will need more.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Mental Health Counseling will be far less useful to you. Those programs are not meant to prepare a person for doctoral study....they are meant to prepare a person for licensure and practice as an LMHC.
 
MA or MS in an Experimental Psychology degree program and/or a program that requires a thesis. Programs that lead to a licensure aren't meant to be stepping stones to doctoral training. Can people in doctoral programs have experience from an MSW program or MHC program...sure, is it common...no.

I sent an e-mail to a graduate adviser at LIU asking for some advice on optimizing my approach towards the PsyD program at the university. They offer an "M.A. Psychology" degree. I figured that this would be a great stepping stone for the PsyD program. I read your advice here and it is a little confusing as to which path I should take.

Here is the advisor's e-mail response:

Dear ____,

Our M,.A. program is in Experimental Psychology.

It will not enhance your chances of gaining entry into the Psy.D. program.

You should think about another route.



I must mention that the advisor's tone did not sound very considerate nor did I gain any insight from the e-mail.. but that is besides the point.
 
My advice may be a little different than others and may not represent the experience of the majority of applicants. . . but here it is anyway. You specifically mentioned Counseling Psychology PhD, which is different from Clinical Psychology, including in the application process. Many clinical programs don't require any sort of Master's degree, however there are several Counseling Psych that do. Often, those programs don't care if it is from an M.A in Psychology or a degree that is practice based. I recently applied to and was accepted into a few Counseling Psych PhD programs and I found that many of the programs preferred those that had some kind of counseling background in their Master's degree because you come in pre-oriented to the 'Counseling' way of doing things (i.e. CACREP accredited programs).

For me personally, I got an M.Ed in Professional Counseling (Specialization in Community) and I found it very helpful. This was because after my first round of PhD apps I did NOT get into a program, yet I was able to practice for the year in between as a Licensed Associate Professional Counselor in my state, giving me a leg up on practical experience, including working with managed care, maintaining my own client caseload, working withing a community mental health organization, receiving additional trainings, etc. For me I purposely chose the M.Ed which allowed me to be licensed as a back-up if I didn't get in the first time, which worked out perfectly. It also helped me sharpen my reasoning for applying to PhD programs and helped boost my statement of purpose as I could speak to first hand experience of why PhD positions differed from the M.Ed positions in my organization and practice in general. Also, during interviews this time around, I was in several groups where it was clear that my clinical experience put me in another league compared to some other applicants, including how I was able to respond to social justice related questions (I work with only Medicaid clients as an LAPC).

Having said all that, a practicing degree typically offers NO RESEARCH EXPERIENCE. This is not good when applying to PhD programs, Counseling, Clinical, or otherwise. So make sure that, if you choose a practicing degree, you will have access to professors who do research. At my school the M.Ed faculty were also the faculty for the PhD program, so I was able to join a research team and do research for almost the entirety of my program. I also continued to work with the team for ~4 months after I graduated. This helped my applications tremendously, especially during interviews when I was able to speak about seeking out research opportunities on my own. I think it really showed my dedication vs. having mandatory research.
 
In my own life, I became much less certain than I used to be about if I wanted to eventually pursue a doctoral program that primarily emphasized conducting research, being a practitioner, or a combination of the two. I figured Master's degree would help me sort that out. There are actually MANY places that offer Master's degrees in either Clinical Psychology or Counseling Psychology (please not that this is NOT the same as a Master's in Counseling) that have a strong research emphasis & require/allow you to do a research thesis AND ALSO prepare you as a practitioner (LPC, MFT, Psychological Associate, etc). Since I didn't know which direction I wanted to go, I weeded out Master's programs that were either only research-based & had no clinical training (typically Master's in Experimental Psych, General Psych, Social Psych, etc) or only practice based (these program are typically called Master's in Counseling or Master's in Mental Health Counseling programs)....I made sure before applying that all programs on my list had both a research and clinical/practitioner base....these programs do indeed exist, and there are actually quite a few of them out there....if you want suggestions/examples of schools, let me know and I'll post them here :)
 
Last edited:
I too had difficulty in finding a program that had a strong emphasis on both research and practicum experience. It seems that most programs are geared toward one or the other. I also wanted to have an emphasis on counseling techniques so finding a program with all of these things was not exactly easy.

The school I eventually decided on was Arizona State University and I highly recommend looking into their counseling psychology masters program. The school itself is one of the top research schools in the country so you will certainly have a chance to be a part of research teams. You will also have to write your own thesis and take courses in experimental psychology. You will also be required to complete internship/practicum ... clinical experience is a big part of the program as the degree does lead to licensing in the state of Arizona. The coursework is focused on counseling psychology as well so you aren't getting the dry course load that one would find with a general psych or experimental psych degree.

University of Denver had a similar program and also looked like a great school ... except it is a private university so the price was a bit out of my range. Another thing I would like to touch in is to pay attention to where the degree is coming from ... for instance, are you getting it from the school of education? Is it a M.ed or an M.S? This is important because you want to make sure you are hooked up with the right faculty. E-mail some professors and find out more about the programs. See if students are going into Phd programs out of the program of interest (for instance, I was looking into University of Wisconsin, but less than 5% of their students go into PhD programs after graduation so they really don't put the effort into training for it)

Good luck!
 
Zensouth, you provided some great insight that went right down my alley.

Member012345678, can you provide a list of some examples of programs from schools that provide both research as well as provide you with a clinical/practitioner base? I am assuming that once you graduate from these programs, you should be eligible or close to being eligible to get a license to practice.
 
I just recently completed my Masters in Counseling Psychology (CACREP) program and I am looking into Ph D programs. My issue is that I would like to receive it in Neuropsychology, which requires a Clinical Psychology (APA) degree. Due to the differences between the programs I beleive it will be difficult for me to enter into an APA Doctoral program without having to complete courses within the APA guidelines and I am unsure if the program will accept all of my CACREP courses as well. Any experience with this will be helpful. I have read the posts and they are very helpful and insightful. Thanks
 
I just recently completed my Masters in Counseling Psychology (CACREP) program and I am looking into Ph D programs. My issue is that I would like to receive it in Neuropsychology, which requires a Clinical Psychology (APA) degree. Due to the differences between the programs I beleive it will be difficult for me to enter into an APA Doctoral program without having to complete courses within the APA guidelines and I am unsure if the program will accept all of my CACREP courses as well. Any experience with this will be helpful. I have read the posts and they are very helpful and insightful. Thanks

Doctoral programs don't typically accept transfer units from masters degrees previously attained elsewhere.

Also, I don't believe that masters programs are APA accredited. I don't think your masters degree would bar you from applying to/be accepted at an APA doctoral program.
 
MindBlown
Here is a list of terminal Master's programs at publicly funded universities that require/allow you to do an empirical Master's thesis AND ALSO train you as a practitioner; all of these lead to eligibility for some type of licensure:

U of Hawaii at Hilo in Counseling Psychology--leads to licensure as a Licensed Mental Health Counselor (LMHC), University of Houston at Clear Lake in Clinical Psychology--leads to licensure as a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) or Licensed Psychological Associate (LPA), Texas Woman's University in Counseling Psychology--leads to licensure as an LPC, Eastern Michigan University in Clinical Psych--leads to licensure as a Limited License Psychologist, Cal State U at Fullerton in Clinical Psych--leads to licensure as a Marriage and Family Therapist (MFT), Cal State U at San Bernardino in Clinical/Counseling Psych--leads to licensure as an MFT, U of Massachusetts at Dartmouth in Counseling Psych--leads to licensure as a LMHC, Texas A&M at Corpus Christi in Clinical Psych--leads to licensure as an LPC, U of Alaska at Anchorage in Clinical Psych--leads to licensure as an LPC or LPA, Florida International University in Counseling psych--leads to licensure as a LMHC, U of Texas at Tyler in Clinical psych and also Counseling psych--leads to licensure as an LPA or LPC depending on which program you get accepted into.

It should be noted that all of these programs listed here are at public universities. This list is by no means comprehensive. Also keep in mind that sometimes different states sometimes call the same type of job/licensure different names (what some states call an LPC other states call a Licensed Mental Health Worker or Psychological Associate). As I mentioned in my previous post, I have become less certain about whether or not I want to end up applying for a doctoral program, and if I do, which type of program will be the best fit for me (i.e. strong research orientation, strong practice orientation, a combo of the two). I figured that applying to Master's programs with a strong emphasis in both conducting research and clinical work will help guide my future decision; also, if I decide to not go on for a doctorate, I can get a job with some sort of Master's level licensure.

Wigflip--it is true that APA does not accredit Master's programs. It should be noted, however, that Texas Woman's University and Eastern Michigan U both have APA accredited doctoral programs and also offer terminal Master's degrees. In fact. the 2 year Master's programs at these schools are the exact same curriculum that the doctoral students have during the first two years of their program....Master's students and 1st or 2nd yr doctoral students take their courses together :)
 
Top