need help

[wugz]

I recently accepted a position at a doctoral program. I am having serious doubts of attending there and am almost wanting to choose a slot at a different program. I'm not sure if this is unethical, and have spoken to the program to express my concern. They stated any decision should be made quickly and this is all happening after the April 15 deadline. On my letter, it states they will have to send the other program a written release. Will this release follow me throughout my training at another program? I assume this may reflect poorly.

I appreciate your feedback,

Thank you

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[abiturient]

Is the other program still holding an offer for you considering it's after April 15th?

 

[wugz]

Yes

 

[abiturient]

I really don't know much about the consequences of you being released from an offer, but I am going to offer my 10c: you are making a decision about your training and your career. If the program you accepted is that terrible and you will be a lot happier in the other then do what you need to do. Of course, I don't know your situation and details about the programs, so can't say more. Do you have an advisor or someone who wrote you a letter of rec that you can ask that question? Like I said, I am just a student and I don't know what happens if you asked to be released, but if you need someone to talk it through feel free to message me. Good luck anyway!

 

[cara susanna]

Would you feel comfortable elaborating on any of your concerns?

 

[PsychScience]

I assume this may reflect poorly.

Yes it will likely reflect poorly on you. This is particularly true depending on the school and your area of interest; the programs that adhere to the April 15th deadline tend to be small cohort, mentor-model type programs, which are more likely to be affected negatively by a last minute decision. Additionally, many of these programs have DCTs who communicate regularly with one another, this makes for a small world in the field (particularly if you are within a more niche clinical specialty area).

Has the program that you have committed to agreed to provide a written release in the event that you retract your acceptance?

 

[psychRA]

I don't know that anyone can predict how this might reflect on you (in general, backing out of a commitment doesn't look good), but the nature of the doubts that you are having is an important piece here. Do you have concerns about the actual program? For example, are you unsure about whether the training is adequate, whether it's a strong match for your research interests, their outcomes in terms of internship match, etc.? Or are these concerns about whether you yourself want to attend the program? For example, is it in a geographic location that you don't like, will it require you to uproot your family, etc.?

Either way, I think that the program that you've already accepted could (legitimately) expect that if you had had serious concerns about attending their program, you should have addressed them before this point in time. Barring a recent major change in their program, or a recent change in your own personal circumstances, there's been plenty of time during the application, interview, and offer periods for you to educate yourself about the program and ask follow up questions about any concerns that you may have had. At this point, if you decline the slot that you already accepted, that program has almost certainly lost their chance to offer it to one of their other top choices, and they may not be able to fill the slot at all this year. Not to mention the other applicants who may have lost out on the chance to attend what may have been one of their top choices, assuming that they've already accepted other offers. You may be burning a bridge with the program you accepted, and since you may encounter those faculty members again at other points in your career, it's hard to anticipate how that may impact you down the road.

Now, I'm not saying that you should attend a program that you don't like. This is your training and your career, and you need to make the decision that fits best for you. You wouldn't be the first person to go back on an acceptance, and you won't be the last, either. I'm just offering a perspective on how this may look to the program, and pointing out that there very well may be consequences for backing out of an acceptance.

*I don't know what kinds of programs these are, so it's possible that none of my input applies here. If these are doctoral programs where they admit large incoming classes, and/or you aren't matched to a specific POI, it may be less of a big deal to back out of attending. And there may be unusual circumstances that justify the fact that you're just now reconsidering the program. I had a colleague who experienced a major family tragedy soon after interview season, and that person was able to back out of the program they accepted in order to take a slot at a program in their hometown. It still wasn't an easy process - the original program understood, but they weren't thrilled.

 

[wugz]

I am just feeling intense fear about whether I'll be able to handle the program. Ive never felt this before. Ive worked really hard to get get here and this was my dream school. it's conerning to me that i am feeling this way and whether it is indicative of my ability to handle the rigor of the program.

 

[wugz]

I dont want to seem ungrateful. And this dilemma definitely is a first world type problem. At the same time, the program feels like a beast and I question my ability to "rise to the occasion" if i am this anxious about it.

 

[wugz]

The other program is less rigorous, but still a very good program. It would still present an opportunity for me to achieve my career goals. I feel less anxious when i think about this program (closer to home, friends, family) and feel it would still be a place I could succeed. I fear coming into a program where my perception of success is low and/or be a liability to the program itself.

 

[erg923]

The other program is less rigorous, but still a very good program. It would still present an opportunity for me to achieve my career goals. I feel less anxious when i think about this program (closer to home, friends, family) and feel it would still be a place I could succeed. I fear coming into a program where my perception of success is low and/or be a liability to the program itself.

"less rigorous" doesnt sound good. Do you mean less research focused, perhaps? Ideally, all doctoral programs in clinical should have the same amount of academic rigor.

 

[WisNeuro]

If the one reason you are reneging on the offer that you have already chose, is that you want something easier, that will definitely look bad. Unless you lie if someone asks you about it. This can be a hard career path at times, with multiple training steps. Especially if this is your "dream school." Challenge yourself, there are far too many who take the easy way out in this profession and receive subpar training because they couldn't hack it elsewhere.

 

[futureapppsy2]

The other program is less rigorous, but still a very good program. It would still present an opportunity for me to achieve my career goals. I feel less anxious when i think about this program (closer to home, friends, family) and feel it would still be a place I could succeed. I fear coming into a program where my perception of success is low and/or be a liability to the program itself.

OP, psych doctoral programs (minus many FSPS) are competitive enough that they aren't going to accept people unless they have what it takes to succeed. Don't burn professional bridges just because grad school is intimidating. Everything in this field is--thesis/dissertation defenses, seeing clients, prac apps, internship apps, post-doc apps. job apps, manuscript submissions, grant submissions, presentations, etc. If you don't do things that are challenging and kind of scary and that you may very well fail at, you won't do anything in this field. Also, you will fail--your manuscripts will get rejected, you won't get your first choice clinical placements, your advisor will have 32 rounds of revisions on your dissertation proposal before you defend,your clients will drop out of therapy, etc--everyone fails, even the people with freakishly good, incredibly intimidating CVs who get early tenure at R1s. Everyone. But you will also succeed, and you just have to be able to handle the brutalness of failure and the fear and anxiety that goes along with it. It's not fun, of course--and I side-eye anyone who says that rejection/failure doesn't really suck, because, well, it does--but it's part and parcel with this field.

 

[erg923]

OP, psych doctoral programs (minus many FSPS) are competitive enough that they aren't going to accept people unless they have what it takes to succeed. Don't burn professional bridges just because grad school is intimidating. Everything in this field is--thesis/dissertation defenses, seeing clients, prac apps, internship apps, post-doc apps. job apps, manuscript submissions, grant submissions, presentations, etc. If you don't do things that are challenging and kind of scary and that you may very well fail at, you won't do anything in this field. Also, you will fail--your manuscripts will get rejected, you won't get your first choice clinical placements, your advisor will have 32 rounds of revisions on your dissertation proposal before you defend,your clients will drop out of therapy, etc--everyone fails, even the people with freakishly good, incredibly intimidating CVs who get early tenure at R1s. Everyone. But you also succeed as well, and you just have to be able to handle the brutalness of failure and the fear and anxiety that goes along with it. It's not fun, of course--and I side-eye anyone who says that rejection/failure doesn't really suck, because, well, it does--but it's part and parcel with this field.

While attrition isn't particularly common, its not totally rare either. Programs do what they can, but inevitably, program are going to admit people who, in reality, cant follow through. It certainly happens.

 

[futureapppsy2]

While attrition isn't particularly common, its not totally rare either. Programs do what they can, but inevitably, program are going to admit people who, in reality, cant follow through. It certainly happens.

Well, yeah, but in my experience (I'm not aware of any empirical research on this--does anyone know of any?), most attrition is people deciding to leave because they realize that they no longer want this for family/personal/professional reasons, not that they just couldn't hack it. Even the situations I know of where people have been forced to leave were not straightforward incompetence (e.g., disability accommodation issues, being forced to take a comp exam about a research methodology neither they nor their advisor ever used). It does happen, but it's exceeding rare.

 

[WisNeuro]

Well, yeah, but in my experience (I'm not aware if any empirical research on this--does anyone know of any?), most attrition is people deciding to leave because they realize that they no longer want this for family/personal/professional reasons, not that they just couldn't hack it. Even the situations I know of where people have been forced to leave were not straightforward incompetence (e.g., disability accommodation issues, being forced to take a comp exam about a research methodology neither they nor their advisor ever used). It does happen, but it's exceeding rare.

That's been my experience as well. I've known 4 people who have left a program. 3 were due to wanting a wholly different career path. 1 was essentially asked to leave after a couple egregious problems that the student was either unwilling or unable to address in terms of their common sense and clinical acumen.

 

[Chalupacabra]

From what I gather this is a somewhat common issue with people who pursue advanced degrees, particularly competitive ones such as clinical psych - people get overwhelmed and can't see the forest for the trees, as it were. Acceptance to a funded program is a huge investment and one that would not have been made if there wasn't reasonable belief you could make it. Schools are not about to invest tens of thousands of dollars in you if they think you can't hack it - plus keeping attrition rates low is always going to be a priority. Even if you do struggle, as @WisNeuro points out, people rarely seem to get the boot unless they have considerable issues which they refuse to address. Admitting incompetent students in and/or failing to help struggling students wouldn't be a very smart business model (unless you're a FSPS). From my own experience in a masters program only one person was asked to leave, and it was a result of issues they failed to address after repeated conversations with faculty such as chronic lateness, poor work quality, etc. And needless to say, admission to this program was much less competitive than any funded clinical program.

 

[cara susanna]

OP, I suggest that you look up the word "impostor syndrome."

 

[smalltownpsych]

OP, I suggest that you look up the word "impostor syndrome."

This is right on the money. Although I did just want to say that I don't like it when a relatively common psychological dynamic is referred to as a syndrome. When people hear syndrome they tend to think "horrible disease".

 

[psychRA]

If the one reason you are reneging on the offer that you have already chose, is that you want something easier, that will definitely look bad.

Agreed. OP, I don't know if you've already spoken with the program that you accepted. If you move forward with reneging on the acceptance, you're going to have to think very carefully (but quicky - do not let this go on any longer than necessary) about how you plan to explain this to them. I don't think any of us can predict what will happen, but it seems unlikely that there's any way to do this without reflecting poorly on you and potentially burning bridges with the people in this program. I'm not saying that to be harsh, but just pointing out that from the perspective of the department, these are issues that could have been considered before accepting the offer. I would assume/anticipate that the department will be civil to you and will release you from your acceptance if that's really what you want (I don't know if it benefits them to fight you on this), but our field can be surprisingly small and you may encounter various people from that department again in the future.

 

[473912]

OP, psych doctoral programs (minus many FSPS) are competitive enough that they aren't going to accept people unless they have what it takes to succeed.

What does FSPS stand for? I keep seeing it, but I'm not sure.

 

[Chalupacabra]

What does FSPS stand for? I keep seeing it, but I'm not sure.

Free Standing Psychology School, I believe. Something like Argosy, Alliant, Chicago School or Mass School that isn't affiliated with an existing university.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Free Standing Psychology School, I believe. Something like Argosy, Alliant, Chicago School or Mass School that isn't affiliated with an existing university.

Actually, it's Free Standing Professional School, but yes....