Negative bias against pre-meds: is this a general phenomenon?

[philosonista]

Hi, all --

Tl;dr: Do you notice that people have a bias against pre-meds? Do they assume you have no genuine motivations beyond box-checking, resume-boosting and good grades?

Do they, for example, think you would compromise a leadership position because you only care about the position and not the responsibilities? Etc, generally, what kind of biases, if any, do people have against you?

I'm in the process of writing an opinion piece on this and I'd love some input.

Personally, I've noticed a huge difference since I switched from an I-don't-know-what-to-do-with-my-life philosophy major to a pre-med. Most recently, as an example, a position for which I applied was given to someone who was less qualified. Where as I had the leadership position at another school the previous year, this was her first go. I've participated in that activity for four years at that point, and for her, it was two. Etc. It was strongly hinted that my MD/PhD ambitions were the cause for this decision.

So, what have you got?

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[el_duderino]

I think you're imagining things and the position being given to someone else had nothing to do with your "ambitions."

 

[LMBLBM]

Well, I was an associate justice for my undergraduate honor system. When I applied for the Chief Justice position for my school honor system and the head counselor for student conduct office, faculties were accusing me that I am just in for the position. My peers in my major avoided me like a plague because they thought that I would report them to reduce 'competition'.

 

[Gauss44]

Pre-meds aren't a bunch of paper dolls! We're not all the same.

"The system" might select for some of the qualities you describe which probably has something to do with any bias that might exist.

Remember that there's stereotypes about essentially everyone.

 

[philosonista]

I think you're imagining things and the position being given to someone else had nothing to do with your "ambitions."

Yup, I was right. I should have left a personal example out. SDN loves to look for the worst in people.

My work for the previous year in said activity was judged to be the best by a panel of professionals of said activity. The person who got the position has no such award. I got the award two weeks after I was told I did not get the position.

Not the point. There is a general bias. Ad hominem attacks won't hide that.

 

[el_duderino]

Oh I see. You asked if there was a bias. Then you clicked like on a post that said there was. Then you posted the answer: "there is a general bias."

So... why did you ask the question, exactly? Just looking for confirmation, I assume?

 

[philosonista]

Oh I see. You asked if there was a bias. Then you clicked like on a post that said there was. Then you posted the answer: "there is a general bias."

So... why did you ask the question, exactly? Just looking for confirmation, I assume?

It helps to have a lot of material and anecdotes to think about when writing an opinion piece. If I am going to make a claim I need to make it well and fairly. Certainly some people will have opposing experiences.

 

[Lamel]

Not really, its more like that on SDN than in actual college (in my experience). I haven't encountered any real "gunner" phenomena in real life.

When people from the "general public" (i.e. not college students) learn about me being pre-med, they think its a good thing to pursue and that's pretty much it.

 

[hoihaie]

don't really feel it

 

[philosonista]

don't really feel it

You see. If I get enough of these, I wouldn't even write the piece.

Usually I just google the topic I am writing a piece about, but there isn't much to google in this case. I need SDN.

 

[chillaxbro]

Honestly, I'm a pre-med (or was) and I assumed the same thing of other pre-meds

 

[Narmerguy]

I've seen a lot of people express negative presumptions about pre-meds, but it doesn't seem to take very much to dispel these. Doing good work, appearing genuine, and not "grade grubbing" (the greatest complaint most people have about premeds) are usually sufficient to convince anyone that you don't fulfill the negative stereotype. Some people may hold onto their judgments despite that, but such prejudices are hardly unique to premeds and hit others in some way as well.

 

[hoihaie]

You see. If I get enough of these, I wouldn't even write the piece.

Usually I just google the topic I am writing a piece about, but there isn't much to google in this case. I need SDN.

thats also a lot of people in my school is pre med or at least pre health haha

 

[philosonista]

I've seen a lot of people express negative presumptions about pre-meds, but it doesn't seem to take very much to dispel these. Doing good work, appearing genuine, and not "grade grubbing" (the greatest complaint most people have about premeds) are usually sufficient to convince anyone that you don't fulfill the negative stereotype. Some people may hold onto their judgments despite that, but such prejudices are hardly unique to premeds and hit others in some way as well.

Absolutely it hits other and not only pre-meds. I was generally going to speak of a general bias against those with high graduate school ambitions in my piece. But now I am curious: who else do you observe to have these prejudices against them?

 

[Narmerguy]

Absolutely it hits other and not only pre-meds. I was generally going to speak of a general bias against those with high graduate school ambitions in my piece. But now I am curious: who else do you observe to have these prejudices against them?

Everyone suffers from different biases as few people fully appreciates the nuances and complexities of a discipline outside of those actively pursuing them. Humanities, social science, business, physicists, pre meds, etc etc.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Don't act like a gunner and show genuine interest in things. People will treat you as "I want my doctor to be like that!" instead of "oh boy, here comes a box checker." I never encountered issues because I was a premed, including finding research positions. Maybe it's just my neck of the woods (Northern California).

 

[sobored]

Bottom line: who cares? Just don't be a douche and things will be groovy.

 

[allantois]

Science faculty at my school go out of their way to recruit non-premeds in their labs even if they have lower GPAs and who are most often less ambitious. I never tell people that I'm a pre-med unless they insist after they first ask about my major.

 

[sharkbyte]

Haven't really yet had a "negative bias" experience but I remember that after I signed up to write for the sports section of my school newspaper, some of the other staff writers/interns looked at me REALLY strangely when they asked about my major and I said "biology" and they were like "Why are you writing for the newspaper?" I got kind of taken aback and just felt, "Dude, I like sports writing. I don't know how my major has anything to do with it." I feel like some people legitimately believe that writing for a newspaper is weird and strange if you're not majoring in communications or journalism.

 

[Mad Jack]

I never referred to myself as a premed, so I don't know these feels. I kept my ambitions to myself and just took the courses.

Other premeds were often annoying as hell with their unnecessary gunnery and competitiveness, most of which got them nowhere, as wave after wave of the gunner types washed out. Most of the kids that were left by ochem II were pretty cool.

 

[philosonista]

Haven't really yet had a "negative bias" experience but I remember that after I signed up to write for the sports section of my school newspaper, some of the other staff writers/interns looked at me REALLY strangely when they asked about my major and I said "biology" and they were like "Why are you writing for the newspaper?" I got kind of taken aback and just felt, "Dude, I like sports writing. I don't know how my major has anything to do with it." I feel like some people legitimately believe that writing for a newspaper is weird and strange if you're not majoring in communications or journalism.

Oh, believe me, I know. It didn't seem at all weird to anyone that I liked journalism before I was a pre-med...

 

[aklark]

In 1979 Lewis Thomas described "the premeds" as "that most detestable of all cliques eating away at the heart of college."

Unfortunately, many of the hyper-competitive, grade-obsessed d-bags in the first 3 rows of every basic science class still give the group a bad name, deserved or not. I wish medical schools had a better means of selecting against this type of applicant, because the future of medicine is teamwork.

 

[Aerus]

I've seen a few professors hold negative biases against premeds, but not really students. Then again, I come from a pretty big STEM school, so the only people there were any negative biases against were the non-STEM majors.

 

[Doctor Dream]

I would hate to go to all of these gunner pre-med filled schools like most of you do
I haven't met any gunner pre-med students at my school. Granted it's small and there aren't many pre-med on campus.

The worst gunner I've met was actually a male pre-nursing student

 

[kyamh]

There is reason premeds are not loved in research. If a project is really going somewhere, a dedicated student would apply for a grant and stay on after graduation to finish the project. A premed who got into med school usually takes the acceptance and runs without looking back. If an experiment is running late or into a weekend, the premed will be the first to duck out of the room for "a previous commitment" so as to not flake out on endless volunteering and shadowing, others will stick it out with the team for the science and the camaraderie. Premeds will say they are researching for a summer and then leave at four every day regardless of what is happening because that's their dedicated MCAT studying time.

Premeds are committed to getting into medical school, they are not committed to the ECs along the way.

 

[Lawgiver]

Honestly I think it's mainly due to personal insecurities most people have. I also think the vast majority of premeds do come off as a bit full of themselves but not consciously. I'm in my early 30s and I often squirm looking back at things I said in my late teens and early 20s. There needs to be a lot more understanding and perspective coming from all sides.

 

[Doudline]

You don't have to tell anyone you're a premed. You seem to be making life harder for yourself than it needs to be tbh.

 

[bambam92]

Maybe it's because of all the D-bag pre-meds that go into freshman year telling anyone who will listen, "yeah, I am pre-med." Bottom line is pre-med doesn't mean jack ****, I remember an advisor telling me that only 10% of people who declare themselves pre-med at the beginning of UG end up matriculating to med school. So people probably get sick of the quack pre-meds who go around boasting but yet don't even make it to med school, or better yet switch to business a year later and tell everyone it was the best decision they ever made…hmmmm. I have met kids like this btw. I don't tell anyone I am pre-med in school--why don't you take up this approach? You don't have to go around with it stamped on your forehead. P.S. for the most part my engineering friends are way smarter than me and all my fellow "pre-meds." So no need for pre-meds to be on any high horses..

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I never referred to myself as a premed, so I don't know these feels. I kept my ambitions to myself and just took the courses.

Other premeds were often annoying as hell with their unnecessary gunnery and competitiveness, most of which got them nowhere, as wave after wave of the gunner types washed out. Most of the kids that were left by ochem II were pretty cool.

This is definitely a good approach in a lot of places.
Although strangely, the pre-med community at my current school is generally supportive.

 

[NTheo91]

Hiding your premed status from most people is always for the best. I didn't make friends with many bio majors because most were gunner premeds. I think I had a total of 2 premed friends, 1 of which stopped talking to me once accepted to medical school. So much for being a friend....

Outside of the premed circles, I always introduced myself as a biology major. I love biology and was proud of my major, but my friends who knew I was premed would always interrupt and say "but he is premed." It's as if being a premed outranks being a biology major. People were impressed more when I said I was premed than when I said I was a bio major (which shows how little they know about what it means to be premed).

Aside from my peers, my professors tended to think of premeds as box checkers (doing only what needs to be done to get into medical school, nothing more, nothing less).

 

[Gauss44]

Hi, all --

Tl;dr: Do you notice that people have a bias against pre-meds? Do they assume you have no genuine motivations beyond box-checking, resume-boosting and good grades?

Do they, for example, think you would compromise a leadership position because you only care about the position and not the responsibilities? Etc, generally, what kind of biases, if any, do people have against you?

I'm in the process of writing an opinion piece on this and I'd love some input.

Personally, I've noticed a huge difference since I switched from an I-don't-know-what-to-do-with-my-life philosophy major to a pre-med. Most recently, as an example, a position for which I applied was given to someone who was less qualified. Where as I had the leadership position at another school the previous year, this was her first go. I've participated in that activity for four years at that point, and for her, it was two. Etc. It was strongly hinted that my MD/PhD ambitions were the cause for this decision.

So, what have you got?

IMO, it's a terrible self-sacrifice* to do most of the things mentioned by the OP.

There's an expression, "You'll spend your whole life trying to get to the top of the ant hill. The problem is, at the top of the ant hill, nothing's there**."

*plus collateral damage
** "Nothing," will be right on for some people, and less so for others. The question at the end will be, "Was it worth it?"

(A few people from each med school class, I've been told, will catch a horrible disease from a patient. 40%, I've read, end up in primary care which may not be so bad but isn't a dream job for most people. Some will spend 12 years working up a ladder and then decide they don't really like their job. Some will be "successful" but will dislike who they've become. Others will be quite happy with what they did and who they are.)

 

[HCHopeful]

This feels so overemphasized in the pre-med community. Here's the thing: other people are just as worthy (if not more) as you. If writing an opinionated article is what happens when someone beats you out for a position in a club, I can't imagine what your response would be if another pre-med "steals" your spot in medical school. To me, it doesn't matter why you weren't elected. You can tell us that it was because you're a pre-med, but chances are there was an underlying reason. If someone is undeniably the best candidate, he/she will be selected. You should have done things that showed you weren't in it only for the position if that's what they thought.

We aren't the only students trying to strive for greater things in life, and I think a lot of people tend to forget this.

 

[Wasted Energy]

I never referred to myself as a premed, so I don't know these feels. I kept my ambitions to myself and just took the courses.

I think think this is the best solution, as it makes things much, much simpler. If I were to end up being accepted to a medical school, most people that know me would be taken aback, as I'm not even a science major and never mention my future goals.

 

[swolebrah]

Our intermural rugby team was called gunners .

Was hilarious , got all kinda of nasty hermoine looks from premeds when we wore our jerseys to Ochem . Granted we also had horse heads on to rep the misc crew .

 

[philosonista]

I think think this is the best solution, as it makes things much, much simpler. If I were to end up being accepted to a medical school, most people that know me would be taken aback, as I'm not even a science major and never mention my future goals.

You don't have to tell anyone you're a premed. You seem to be making life harder for yourself than it needs to be tbh.

Well, I was asked what I wanted to do as a career in my interview. Retrospectively, I should have lied because it killed the entire interview thereafter.

It doesn't help that it's been widely publicized that I'm a pre-med because I won the big pre-medical award at my school. I miss the several years that I was a complete nobody on campus. You don't realize how nice it is until it is gone. Even if I still indulge my introversion by not socializing, it's aggravating to know that people know me even if I don't talk much.

 

[philosonista]

This feels so overemphasized in the pre-med community. Here's the thing: other people are just as worthy (if not more) as you. If writing an opinionated article is what happens when someone beats you out for a position in a club, I can't imagine what your response would be if another pre-med "steals" your spot in medical school. To me, it doesn't matter why you weren't elected. You can tell us that it was because you're a pre-med, but chances are there was an underlying reason. If someone is undeniably the best candidate, he/she will be selected. You should have done things that showed you weren't in it only for the position if that's what they thought.

We aren't the only students trying to strive for greater things in life, and I think a lot of people tend to forget this.

I write opinion pieces a lot for my school paper. It's a topic I feel strongly about, so I'm going to write about it. It's not an isolated event with a bone to pick. It is a bone to pick, yes, but as are all OP pieces and they are my specialty.

And if you think newspaper staffs choose fairly, you've never been on one. I've been on four (Transferred several times). They're like little catty fraternities.

 

[angus2193]

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