Nervous/scared feeling about being bitten or injured on the job

[FeenyFee]

Hi ya'll, I've been working as a part time tech since September and every once in awhile I will see a scary case or actually have a close call myself. The staff is really awesome about teaching me and staying on top of me for doing the correct restraints and techniques etc. But lately I've been having a lot of anxiety about aggressive animals and I feel a sense of dread sometimes going in to work, not knowing what to expect or if todays 'my day.' (the cats tend to make me way more nervous)

Is this something that normally goes away with experience? Does vet school help prepare us more for these things?

Side note: I was watching that show Vet School on Nat Geo Wild and one of the 4th year students was checking on a cat which attempted to bite him a few times and was super hissy with no tech present. When you are on clinicals, are you expected to do examinations without a tech present?

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[DVMDream]

Hi ya'll, I've been working as a part time tech since September and every once in awhile I will see a scary case or actually have a close call myself. The staff is really awesome about teaching me and staying on top of me for doing the correct restraints and techniques etc. But lately I've been having a lot of anxiety about aggressive animals and I feel a sense of dread sometimes going in to work, not knowing what to expect or if todays 'my day.' (the cats tend to make me way more nervous)

Is this something that normally goes away with experience? Does vet school help prepare us more for these things?

Side note: I was watching that show Vet School on Nat Geo Wild and one of the 4th year students was checking on a cat which attempted to bite him a few times and was super hissy with no tech present. When you are on clinicals, are you expected to do examinations without a tech present?

I think as you gain experience you just learn how to kind of "read" the animals and you do become more confident in your restraining abilities.

So far, I wouldn't say vet school has really helped me to more prepare for dealing with aggressive animals because, to be honest, they tend to keep us students out of the way and just sedate the animals. I definitely learned much more about dealing with aggressive animals as a technician than I have in vet school. Though you can talk with the techs at the vet school. They are the best for getting information on how to best deal with various situations, such as aggressive animals. No matter how much experience you have, there will always be something that someone does that is different and sometimes works better. So just don't be afraid to ask.

Yes, I am almost always by myself examining animals in an exam room with the client. Then we go to get the resident/clinician and they examine the animal with you. Then the techs really just help to get blood, urine, or other samples. However, if the animal is really aggressive, they don't expect you to examine the animal by yourself and you can get a fellow student or tech to help and if really necessary, drugs.

 

[dyachei]

Being scared is good in small doses because it makes you very aware of the danger. Being too scared or timid is something animals may pick up on. So be cautious and keep learning. It takes time and practice.

 

[FeenyFee]

I think as you gain experience you just learn how to kind of "read" the animals and you do become more confident in your restraining abilities.

So far, I wouldn't say vet school has really helped me to more prepare for dealing with aggressive animals because, to be honest, they tend to keep us students out of the way and just sedate the animals. I definitely learned much more about dealing with aggressive animals as a technician than I have in vet school. Though you can talk with the techs at the vet school. They are the best for getting information on how to best deal with various situations, such as aggressive animals. No matter how much experience you have, there will always be something that someone does that is different and sometimes works better. So just don't be afraid to ask.

Yes, I am almost always by myself examining animals in an exam room with the client. Then we go to get the resident/clinician and they examine the animal with you. Then the techs really just help to get blood, urine, or other samples. However, if the animal is really aggressive, they don't expect you to examine the animal by yourself and you can get a fellow student or tech to help and if really necessary, drugs.

Thanks for your response! I agree that the technicians are a wealth of information. I'm amazed everyday how they handle some really naughty animals!!

So if you were in the room with a client and the dog was definitely fearful. Ears down and whale eyes but not growling or lunging. Would you attempt to examine?

 

[Jess Monster]

I can't speak about vet school, but I think people do better when they have a little fear. They proceed more cautiously and take fewer risks. Bites are still going to happen though.

 

[FeenyFee]

Being scared is good in small doses because it makes you very aware of the danger. Being too scared or timid is something animals may pick up on. So be cautious and keep learning. It takes time and practice.

I've learned that if I hesitate at all, they will take advantage.

Other than experience, do you recommend anything to build confidence around aggressive/fearful animals?

 

[orca2011]

I agree with what was said above.

I used to be terrified of cats when I first started. Then I got heavily involved with shelter/TNR work and kind of love aggressive cats. Aggressive dogs can still get me twitchy (cats less so) and part of it is because I always did sports so sometimes my reaction times get the best of me(this is usually once I'm actually handling g the animal and they make do something) but I overcome it. It was harder when I first started working but I got a lot better.

The more experience you gain, the more comfortable you become with various techniques for muzzling and restraining aggressive animals. Also, like above, if animals are showing signs of aggression or being difficult to hande, they are often sedated earlier than later which is often better for everyone involved. This isn't always the case in some private practice places and it's unfortunate as it makes for a difficult experience for everyone involved.

However, here we're expected to do a full PE by ourselfs, including rectal unless the animal is obviously being sketchy. That being said, we have never been punished or embarrassed for feeling uncomfortable with handling an animal. I will admit to having times where the animals are giving neutral to friendly behavior or I missed some subtle body language because I was paying attention to PE details and have almost been bitten, but so far everything for me has been minor/grazing with no blood involved. Scratches are a whole different story.

And sorry for typos...I blame the tequila.

 

[dyachei]

I've learned that if I hesitate at all, they will take advantage.

Other than experience, do you recommend anything to build confidence around aggressive/fearful animals?

Restrain like you mean it. If you're super slack with them they will take advantage. Don't be afraid to distract them if necessary. I find that aggressive cats will take the opportunity to shred the crap out of a paper towel roll instead of my arm. That said, don't be afraid to introduce yourself slowly and give treats (if not sick) so that they can warm up to you. A large amount of aggression in cats and dogs is due to fear. Some are just untrained and unruly, and some are just mean. But if you make them comfortable and work with them, it goes a lot better. You can do some searches for fear free exams, etc and see some of their ideas, too.

 

[DVMDream]

So if you were in the room with a client and the dog was definitely fearful. Ears down and whale eyes but not growling or lunging. Would you attempt to examine?

It is really hard to know without being there in the moment. It really just depends on the feeling that I am getting from the animal. Is this an animal that is just scared of the situation and is more of a scared/freeze type? Or is this a fear biting animal. And sometimes it is hard to know until you begin.

Typically if I see that upon entering an exam room, I am going to introduce myself to the client and start to get a really good history before I engage the dog. This allows the dog to get used to my presence, to smell me if wanted and for me to continue to watch the dog and his/her behaviors. Sometimes just in that time I can get an idea of yes I can probably get an exam done or no, an exam is not going to happen without assistance. No matter what, I am going to go slow and gentle. If at any point the dog starts to growl, or show teeth or any other signs of possible aggression, then I will stop, back off and come back to the exam later with assistance.

It honestly is a case by case basis. I have seen dogs with ears down and whale eyes that will literally just freeze and allow you to do anything even if they are nervous/scared. And I have seen others turn into holy terrors and it is hard to know at first how a dog will react. So you go slow and take the exam step by step while constantly being mindful of the dog's reactions and body language.

You also don't want your client getting bit, so you need to keep that in mind, so you may be better off getting a tech and then depending on how the animal reacts possibly taking the dog back to a treatment area away from the owner. Also, don't be afraid to tell clients that you need to muzzle their dog for the safety of everyone involved. Some clients will take offense, but the vast majority will not. And it is better for you, the techs, the owner and the dog. And many times, just placing a muzzle on a dog is enough for them to cooperate and allow you to do an exam.

 

[FeenyFee]

It is really hard to know without being there in the moment. It really just depends on the feeling that I am getting from the animal. Is this an animal that is just scared of the situation and is more of a scared/freeze type? Or is this a fear biting animal. And sometimes it is hard to know until you begin.

Typically if I see that upon entering an exam room, I am going to introduce myself to the client and start to get a really good history before I engage the dog. This allows the dog to get used to my presence, to smell me if wanted and for me to continue to watch the dog and his/her behaviors. Sometimes just in that time I can get an idea of yes I can probably get an exam done or no, an exam is not going to happen without assistance. No matter what, I am going to go slow and gentle. If at any point the dog starts to growl, or show teeth or any other signs of possible aggression, then I will stop, back off and come back to the exam later with assistance.

It honestly is a case by case basis. I have seen dogs with ears down and whale eyes that will literally just freeze and allow you to do anything even if they are nervous/scared. And I have seen others turn into holy terrors and it is hard to know at first how a dog will react. So you go slow and take the exam step by step while constantly being mindful of the dog's reactions and body language.

You also don't want your client getting bit, so you need to keep that in mind, so you may be better off getting a tech and then depending on how the animal reacts possibly taking the dog back to a treatment area away from the owner. Also, don't be afraid to tell clients that you need to muzzle their dog for the safety of everyone involved. Some clients will take offense, but the vast majority will not. And it is better for you, the techs, the owner and the dog. And many times, just placing a muzzle on a dog is enough for them to cooperate and allow you to do an exam.

That makes sense! Thank you so much for your response it really helped me.

 

[TerraVet]

I very much felt that way when I started, and for me it got much easier when I gained confidence just through exposure and practice. The first 30 cats who screamed bloody murder scared the crap out of me...now I'm much more "yeah yeah you're gonna kill me, I get it."

What also helped was working with wildlife. I'm now much more afraid of raccoons than cats.

For extremely fractious cats I pretty much have my routine down: have everything set up for whatever we're doing, have a minimum of two thick towels, snap collar or muzzle, go into a closed quiet room, and get 'er done. Once you manage to do a few dozen it becomes a necessary evil instead of something I dread.

Similarly for dogs I've gotten much more comfortable handling them and judging their behavior. It's also important to manage your surroundings--the only time a cat bit me (through the towel so a nasty bruise instead of a puncture) was when the noise level on the room was high and the cat was getting increasingly more frantic. Now I politely ask people to shut up if there's too much noise and it affects my patient.

So in summary it took about two years for me to be comfortable in most situations but the fear does gradually get replaced with comfort as you get better at handling and overall have more positive experiences.

 

[FeenyFee]

I very much felt that way when I started, and for me it got much easier when I gained confidence just through exposure and practice. The first 30 cats who screamed bloody murder scared the crap out of me...now I'm much more "yeah yeah you're gonna kill me, I get it."

What also helped was working with wildlife. I'm now much more afraid of raccoons than cats.

For extremely fractious cats I pretty much have my routine down: have everything set up for whatever we're doing, have a minimum of two thick towels, snap collar or muzzle, go into a closed quiet room, and get 'er done. Once you manage to do a few dozen it becomes a necessary evil instead of something I dread.

Similarly for dogs I've gotten much more comfortable handling them and judging their behavior. It's also important to manage your surroundings--the only time a cat bit me (through the towel so a nasty bruise instead of a puncture) was when the noise level on the room was high and the cat was getting increasingly more frantic. Now I politely ask people to shut up if there's too much noise and it affects my patient.

So in summary it took about two years for me to be comfortable in most situations but the fear does gradually get replaced with comfort as you get better at handling and overall have more positive experiences.

That is really good to hear.

I've never loved towels so much!

 

[Pugsforlove2014]

So I won't pretend to have nearly as much experience as the previous posters but I did work full time as a tech for a year before vet school, and then previous summers as well. I'm way more comfortable with dogs, owing to having owned them all my life, cats are a different story.
I've never personally owned one until just recently so I never quite understood them. I did get bitten very minimally once by one, but that's it. I get scratched a lot, and that might be from lack of skill but I've seen it happen to lots of people.
So I guess the best advice is just to try and trust the people around you, who are there to train you and support you. Techs know their stuff on this subject better than the average vet I think.

 

[lailanni]

Does vet school help prepare us more for these things?

When you are on clinicals, are you expected to do examinations without a tech present?

Vet school didn't teach me any tricks to handling animals. I learned more from techs at my clinic working as an assistant.

During clinicals you do the exams on your own. If something is really fractious you can get some help (usually another student or sedation). I only got help from a tech once during vet school, as we were pretty much our own techs.

Time helps everything. I'm quite comfortable with dogs, but still am not a good cat reader. I ask for help on those and it works. I am a rabbit whisperer and that's great because everyone else is scared of handling their delicate backs. So I'll trade rabbit help for cat help.

I think everyone who has worked in a clinic for long enough has been bitten at least once. Even the best handlers. So I'm always pro-chemical restraint (sedation) to avoid staff injury. Why wrestle something when you can use the power of science?

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Thanks for your response! I agree that the technicians are a wealth of information. I'm amazed everyday how they handle some really naughty animals!!

So if you were in the room with a client and the dog was definitely fearful. Ears down and whale eyes but not growling or lunging. Would you attempt to examine?

No.....at least not then. I would spend some time talking with the owner calmly, offering treats to the dog, sit down to be closer to the dog and owner's level, and sometimes even shake the owner's hand (some dogs see the physical contact as a "my owner likes this person", and a handshake is really about the only safe physical contact with a stranger). Then, slowly, I would try to approach the dog and touch him/her, but certainly not examine the dog. Actually, sometimes I can get the dog to approach me if I'm calmly sitting there talking with the owner......the dog is really approaching the owner, but close enough that I can touch the chin or ears. Then again, sometimes you can work up from a touch to a basic exam (looking in the ears, feeling the lymph nodes, or doing an abdominal palpation can be just a kind of extended touching).

I might try to take the dog out of the room to a larger space away from the owner -- some dogs are fearful in a strange place with their owners (fearing they may have to protect them), and some exam rooms are so small they always feel backed in to a corner. That one is a difficult call -- some dogs are better, some are worse. Ditto for the exam table -- some dogs are better on the table, some are worse. And cats are a whole other ballgame.......you have to be a kind of Zen Cat Whisperer with some cats, and you have to know that with many cats less (restraint) is more (cooperation). Then again, some cats just need more.

As was said, over time you get to be better at reading dogs and cats (or whatever species your patients are), and you develop fast reflexes in cases where you've read them wrong.

 

[yugen]

You also don't want your client getting bit, so you need to keep that in mind, so you may be better off getting a tech and then depending on how the animal reacts possibly taking the dog back to a treatment area away from the owner.

The other day I was restraining a four month old kitten in lateral recumbency for a vaccination and the cat was cackling and yowling, trying to free itself and throwing its front paws up. The veterinarian went ahead and vaccinated the cat in the hind limb and, during the restraint and vaccination, the owner stuck their fingers in the kitten's mouth! The kitten began to bite -- but not enough to draw blood. I was shocked. I could only muster, "Please.. don't.." before it was all over, but if I ever work with that client again I'll see if I can vaccinate in the back treatment area. Or at least let them know to please not stick fingers in the cat's face/mouth during vaccinations.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

The other day I was restraining a four month old kitten in lateral recumbency for a vaccination and the cat was cackling and yowling, trying to free itself and throwing its front paws up. The veterinarian went ahead and vaccinated the cat in the hind limb and, during the restraint and vaccination, the owner stuck their fingers in the kitten's mouth! The kitten began to bite -- but not enough to draw blood. I was shocked. I could only muster, "Please.. don't.." before it was all over, but if I ever work with that client again I'll see if I can vaccinate in the back treatment area. Or at least let them know to please not stick fingers in the cat's face/mouth during vaccinations.

Don't do that -- some clients get very suspicious if things are done in the treatment area, and I believe they see more value in what you do when they see you do it.

It can be hard to convince owners not to do stupid things (like sticking their fingers in the animal's mouth, or putting their face right up to a scared dog's nose), but you need to speak up and, if they're not listening, just stop what you're doing until they are. Explain it's for their safety and even if they don't care (I've had owners say that to me), tell they YOU care and won't proceed until it's safe.

 

[yugen]

Don't do that -- some clients get very suspicious if things are done in the treatment area, and I believe they see more value in what you do when they see you do it.

It can be hard to convince owners not to do stupid things (like sticking their fingers in the animal's mouth, or putting their face right up to a scared dog's nose), but you need to speak up and, if they're not listening, just stop what you're doing until they are. Explain it's for their safety and even if they don't care (I've had owners say that to me), tell they YOU care and won't proceed until it's safe.

Hopefully the more shocking behavior I come to expect from clients, the better and quicker my reaction will be.

 

[FeartheDogMonky]

Restrain like you mean it. If you're super slack with them they will take advantage. Don't be afraid to distract them if necessary. I find that aggressive cats will take the opportunity to shred the crap out of a paper towel roll instead of my arm. That said, don't be afraid to introduce yourself slowly and give treats (if not sick) so that they can warm up to you. A large amount of aggression in cats and dogs is due to fear. Some are just untrained and unruly, and some are just mean. But if you make them comfortable and work with them, it goes a lot better. You can do some searches for fear free exams, etc and see some of their ideas, too.

To the OP: This.

Know your techniques, know your personal limits (strength, endurance, etc.), and learn to recognize the signs that shat is about to go down. As a holder, I take it upon myself to let everyone else know if/when I'm losing my grip on the satanic cat that wants to claw everyone to pieces. I'll always make sure my coworkers are out of harms way before I loosen up enough to move the cat to a box/kennel so it can chill. Fortunately I am able to subdue 98% of the dogs that come through, but that still has its limits both to the safety of the staff and the animal. Buggy-eyed & obese dogs, for example, need extra care during restraint to avoid their eye popping out or turning blue.

It takes practice and time to learn how to read animals, but as was said previously, your behavior and personal anxiety will impact how the animal responds. Timid handler/technician/doctor leads to more anxiety from the already scared patient. Practice builds confidence and never be afraid to use physical barriers to your advantage (muzzles, cat bags, towels, etc.). Most importantly - never become complacent,

And when all else fails or when the risk to safety is too high (patient and/or staff), subdue, call for the doc and let the sedation begin.

 

[dyachei]

everyone thinks they are going to break the animal by using any force. A little force isn't going to hurt the animal. I train techs and this is usually the issue with restraint.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Yes, learn to hold them like you mean it.

Then once you get good at firm restraint, you can step it up in recognizing the patients where less is more. It takes some experience to get there, but you'll start to learn what patients are worse with head taps/pets, which patients really resent firm restraint, etc... But until you can figure that out with confidence, learning a good strong restraint is a good starting point. At least that will keep you and others safe. Then get help of the pet is not amenable to your restraint.

Also, the type of touch/pets you use can make a huge difference, especially with the small landsharks and cats. I work with quite a few vet students, and one thing I notice a lot is that the kitties that are fine with me holding start wincing every time some students touch or pet them then Escalates to freakout. And it is all in exactly how it's done. If the pet tenses when you touch them, you don't want to continue what you're doing cause you're not doing it right. Many fearful cats and small dogs really tend to react to tense muscles, pokey fingertips, etc... Firm but soft open palmed slow steady touches/holds are much better tolerated. Being able to gently restrain at the shoulders is very helpful in many patients.

An excellent resource to safe animal handling (for you and patient) is Sophia Yin's dog cat handlig book that comes complete with a DVD of videos demonstrating. Also has lots of good pictures. If you're twitchy because you're not 100% confident you don't have good direction, it may be really helpful to get this book.

 

[Minnerbelle]

It's actually pretty surprising how low the accident rate is in the profession given what we do. In 14 years in the field, I've had a total of 3 bites. The third one, which was the one that came out of the blue and totally caught me off guard was scary.

Bit right in the abdomen. Large dog lunged and chomped down on my love handle and left puncture marks (canines left punctures, incisors left grazing marks, all with a hell of bruising/swelling) and wouldn't let go for a little bit. all through my white coat and scrub top. I wasn't doing anything with the dog. If I was, that would have been my hand and I may not be practicing anymore. Luckily, love handles are quite insulating for this type of damage, heals well, and doesn't have much functional issues when injured.

But this experience really made me rethink the inherent risks involved with our jobs. I'm much quicker now to turn away a sketchy patient without sedation/safe muzzle.

 

[LetItSnow]

I very much felt that way when I started, and for me it got much easier when I gained confidence just through exposure and practice. The first 30 cats who screamed bloody murder scared the crap out of me...now I'm much more "yeah yeah you're gonna kill me, I get it."

What also helped was working with wildlife. I'm now much more afraid of raccoons than cats.

For extremely fractious cats I pretty much have my routine down: have everything set up for whatever we're doing, have a minimum of two thick towels, snap collar or muzzle, go into a closed quiet room, and get 'er done. Once you manage to do a few dozen it becomes a necessary evil instead of something I dread.

If you can get them with thick towels, a muzzle, or just a quiet room, that's not an "extremely" fractious cat. That's just a resistant one.

We routinely have such fractious cats that you can't even consider opening the kennel door on them, much less opening it to get a towel or muzzle in there. That's extremely fractious. And it's what propofol is for.

Fortunately, they don't usually get that way until they've been in the hospital a while, so you've had a chance to get a line in them first back when you could wrangle them with a towel. I've had cats we've literally propofol'd for every medical progress exam, TPR, etc.

On the positive side, it helps get them eating.

Ideally, you'd be 'training' them during their hospitalization so they'd get more compliant rather than less. But

Working with wildlife does help improve your reaction skills, no doubt. Squirrels scare the hell out of me. Stupid little chittering deadly teeth puff tails.

I agree with @dyachei - restrain it like you mean it. Often it will actually help the animal (in addition to just being a more stable platform for the doctor or other tech to work on the animal). One bit of caution with it, though - if you have a hospitalized animal, jumping to very firm restraint can make your problem worse as hospitalization goes on because they'll learn to interpret the cage door opening as "I'm about to get squeezed." For hospitalized cases it's sometimes better to just take what you can get and maybe forego that q4 temperature or whatever. Or use chemical restraint. I get super annoyed when I come take over a fractious blocked cat case and I see q4 temperatures on the chart .... I mean, really? It's a FLUTD case. I don't really care about its temp too much. And I don't need to be stressing the cat out to great extremes every four hours given that stress is probably playing some role in its urinary issues that we're trying to resolve. So be smart and only get data that you actually need and is actionable.

My approach in the exam room - and I think everyone has to develop their own - is that I go in, sit down on the floor, and start talking to the owner. I get my history and whatnot sitting on the floor pretty much completely ignoring the animal. Gives them time to get used to me. I'm down low where I'm not a threat. The majority of the time, even a timid or fearful animal will have come over to greet me on its own terms by the time I need to examine it. Obviously I don't do this with the 100-lb dog that lunges at me the second I walk in the room. But I usually get more time in the exam room than in a typical day practice, so I can take the slower approach 80% of the time. In a busy 15-minute-appts-all-day-long setting you don't get that luxury. I have had multiple owners comment along the lines of "you're the first vet I know who has sat on the floor to examine my dog." I take what I can get from the dog for my exam and while I try to stick to my 'normal' exam routine, if it's not working for the dog I change it up. If they won't tolerate a part of the exam that's absolutely necessary, then I step up to restraint/muzzle/drugs/whatever it takes. But you need to have some flexibility and work with your patient. As a caveat - sitting on the floor takes away your ability to move away quickly. Once you start to actually examine the patient, you need to change postures to something that allows you appropriate defensive mobility.

I got a thank you card a few months back from an owner whose dog I diagnosed with metastatic lungs and sent home for hospice care - she said in the card that after 14 years with their dog I was the first vet that sat down on the floor and took the time to talk to and pet her animal. It kinda sucks that that was her dog's veterinary experience for its life. I think a lot of vets storm into the room, talk to the owner for 30 seconds, then grab the animal and start pawing it over ..... we're all trained to 'establish relationship' with the owner, but it pays to spend just a little time putting the animal at ease, too.

 

[yugen]

Squirrels scare the hell out of me. Stupid little chittering deadly teeth puff tails.

After working with them, I've never looked at an adult squirrel the same.

 

[cheddar87]

I like this thread. I think sometimes we, as students, get a little big headed and dont admit fear. My hospital is great when animals are a bit cray. I think like everyone else has said you have to read animals. Usually, its pretty obvious when they want nothing to do with you. I also think its important to be confident and calm. Animals definitely pick up on these things. I am pretty scared of german shepherds. Every single experience ive had with them in the hospital has been pretty terrifying, so every time i see one i basically think im going to die lol. In all honesty though i know im going go get bit because i always let my guard down and try to comfort the scared animals. Sometimes i look back on experiences and im shocked i didnt get my face bit off. When it comes to crazy ass cats we just burrito them in a towel for the exams or vaccinations. You arent killing anyone today Satan kitty!!

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Restrain like you mean it, but that does not mean you must be heavy or strong in your restraint. "Like you mean it" is more about firm body language and firm mental resolve, rather than strength; some of the best-restraining techs I've seen have been small or petite women. "Bruitcaine" (using brute force) is not necessary - that's what drugs are for. It's not good for the people or the patients.

 

[Cephal0pod]

Squirrels scare the hell out of me. Stupid little chittering deadly teeth puff tails.

 

[TerraVet]

If you can get them with thick towels, a muzzle, or just a quiet room, that's not an "extremely" fractious cat. That's just a resistant one.

We routinely have such fractious cats that you can't even consider opening the kennel door on them, much less opening it to get a towel or muzzle in there. That's extremely fractious. And it's what propofol is for

You're right lol I don't even count the ones we can't handle because we either box them down or kitty magic them through the opening in a carrier or net like a raccoon. I should have written "fractious but still touchable/not insanely feral." those suckers are a different ballpark from just the extremely naughty "I kill you now" house cats

 

[cowgirla]

If you can get them with thick towels, a muzzle, or just a quiet room, that's not an "extremely" fractious cat. That's just a resistant one.

We routinely have such fractious cats that you can't even consider opening the kennel door on them, much less opening it to get a towel or muzzle in there. That's extremely fractious. And it's what propofol is for.

Fortunately, they don't usually get that way until they've been in the hospital a while, so you've had a chance to get a line in them first back when you could wrangle them with a towel. I've had cats we've literally propofol'd for every medical progress exam, TPR, etc.

propofol? You can get propofol into your extremely fractious cats?!

Personally, I hope whoever came up with the DKT combination is extremely rich and happy, because they deserve it.

 

[hazelmoo]

propofol? You can get propofol into your extremely fractious cats?!

Personally, I hope whoever came up with the DKT combination is extremely rich and happy, because they deserve it.

DKT

 

[LetItSnow]

propofol? You can get propofol into your extremely fractious cats?!

Personally, I hope whoever came up with the DKT combination is extremely rich and happy, because they deserve it.

Like I said, I was talking about the ones that come in ... they're ok for the cath placement, etc ... and then they get unmanageable as they stay in the hospital. Usually it's some 48-hr FLUTD cat. The DKAs generally are too dumpy to put up much of a fight, the FBs go home much sooner ... so that leaves the blocked cats. Once you unblock them and get their electrolytes back to reasonable they feel great and turn into holy terrors.

So yeah, we run extra extension sets so we can push propofol from outside the cage, and propofol them down for TPRs. I mean, for the ones that are super bad. I'm a big believer in leaving freshly unblocked cats the hell alone, so I don't even have my staff TPR them more than twice a day as long as they are otherwise doing ok and I have chemistry showing me their lytes are back to normal. And I was half serious about the bonus - when they wake up from their TPR they've got the munchies so they eat that canned food just fine.

If they are that aggressive right out the gate, then it's kitty magic.

 

[cowgirla]

Like I said, I was talking about the ones that come in ... they're ok for the cath placement, etc ... and then they get unmanageable as they stay in the hospital. Usually it's some 48-hr FLUTD cat. The DKAs generally are too dumpy to put up much of a fight, the FBs go home much sooner ... so that leaves the blocked cats. Once you unblock them and get their electrolytes back to reasonable they feel great and turn into holy terrors.

So yeah, we run extra extension sets so we can push propofol from outside the cage, and propofol them down for TPRs. I mean, for the ones that are super bad. I'm a big believer in leaving freshly unblocked cats the hell alone, so I don't even have my staff TPR them more than twice a day as long as they are otherwise doing ok and I have chemistry showing me their lytes are back to normal. And I was half serious about the bonus - when they wake up from their TPR they've got the munchies so they eat that canned food just fine.

If they are that aggressive right out the gate, then it's kitty magic.

Gotcha. I thought you were still talking about the unmanageable ones where you couldn't even open a carrier or get a muzzle on. I was about to be really impressed at your techs mad skillz in IV catheter placement in fractious devil kitties.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Gotcha. I thought you were still talking about the unmanageable ones where you couldn't even open a carrier or get a muzzle on. I was about to be really impressed at your techs mad skillz in IV catheter placement in fractious devil kitties.

Lol me too. I was thinking, what are you doing that requires propofol if the cat is okay enough to get a catheter in?

 

[LetItSnow]

Yes. It's true. My techs are amazing and can get IV caths in respiratory distress cats in 30 seconds flat oxygen-cage to oxygen-cage, but they aren't so good as to iv stick the fractious hell kitten that's trying to eat everyone in the clinic long enough to propofol it.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Something I've been taught: If you lose hold of the dog or are trying to grab it and it gives you signs, don't pursue. It's hard to break the habit of reaching farther for the dog you just lost hold of, but you will likely get bit. Use a pole to keep the dog from running all over if necessary. I was in a room once and reached to get the dog over to me for the exam. It gave good signs and backed up, so I didn't reach further. Before I could say anything, the owner went to touch the dog and it snapped at her. Luckily she was fine, but yeah reading animals is really important. Also, if you're about to do something, try not to hesitate. You can throw the towel over the cat, but as soon as they feel your touch, they'll bug out. We also have our dogs on slip leads and hooked up via latches to our walls at all times when we're working on them. This way, if we have to abandon ship, the dog is stuck.

We rarely use drugs in the clinics I've been in, but we have a little tank to drop cats in that we can pump iso into. We also squirt ketamine into mouths sometimes as well. There's only one or two at my current job that have to be gassed down in the carrier itself. There are a decent number of dogs that come in with new clients where we seriously can't do anything. Makes you wish you had a dart gun for vaccines

ETA: As a tech I do think it's important that, although you are scared, you're up to the task. We had a tech that was legit terrified of GSDs and rottweilers to the point where she would screamed and them and try to be terrifying herself even if the dog was a sweetie.

 

[LetItSnow]

There are a decent number of dogs that come in with new clients where we seriously can't do anything. Makes you wish you had a dart gun for vaccines

If you have a catch pole / control pole / rabies pole / whatever you call it in your part of the world ..... you can use it on those dogs to get them between a wall and a door with their butt pointed out, and then jab them with drugs in the ass.

I mean, you have to weigh the risk of sedating an animal you haven't examined against how much need there is to examine/sedate it ..... but if you really have one that warrants further examination, that's a decent way to do it.

ETA: I mean in the muscles. Not literally per rectum.

 

[FeenyFee]

To the OP: This.

Know your techniques, know your personal limits (strength, endurance, etc.), and learn to recognize the signs that shat is about to go down. As a holder, I take it upon myself to let everyone else know if/when I'm losing my grip on the satanic cat that wants to claw everyone to pieces. I'll always make sure my coworkers are out of harms way before I loosen up enough to move the cat to a box/kennel so it can chill. Fortunately I am able to subdue 98% of the dogs that come through, but that still has its limits both to the safety of the staff and the animal. Buggy-eyed & obese dogs, for example, need extra care during restraint to avoid their eye popping out or turning blue.

It takes practice and time to learn how to read animals, but as was said previously, your behavior and personal anxiety will impact how the animal responds. Timid handler/technician/doctor leads to more anxiety from the already scared patient. Practice builds confidence and never be afraid to use physical barriers to your advantage (muzzles, cat bags, towels, etc.). Most importantly - never become complacent,

And when all else fails or when the risk to safety is too high (patient and/or staff), subdue, call for the doc and let the sedation begin.

Thats honestly a great tip that I need to remember through out my career. There was a dog that was super friendly when I came in the room to do history jumped all over me and gave me kisses (in hindsight, it was nervous behavior) and sure enough as soon as I go to hold, the dog flips out and snaps.

 

[FeenyFee]

It's actually pretty surprising how low the accident rate is in the profession given what we do. In 14 years in the field, I've had a total of 3 bites. The third one, which was the one that came out of the blue and totally caught me off guard was scary.

Bit right in the abdomen. Large dog lunged and chomped down on my love handle and left puncture marks (canines left punctures, incisors left grazing marks, all with a hell of bruising/swelling) and wouldn't let go for a little bit. all through my white coat and scrub top. I wasn't doing anything with the dog. If I was, that would have been my hand and I may not be practicing anymore. Luckily, love handles are quite insulating for this type of damage, heals well, and doesn't have much functional issues when injured.

But this experience really made me rethink the inherent risks involved with our jobs. I'm much quicker now to turn away a sketchy patient without sedation/safe muzzle.

How long did it take for you to get back to work? How did that emotional stress affect you? Also, do clinics have a backup plan for when a doctor has been bitten or injured where they can't take appointments for a set period of time?

 

[DVMDream]

We also have our dogs on slip leads and hooked up via latches to our walls at all times when we're working on them. This way, if we have to abandon ship, the dog is stuck.

I don't really like the idea of having dogs tied via their neck to a wall. I have seen dogs nearly strangle themselves on those latches even just being hooked up on one without freaking out and just walking around.

 

[FeenyFee]

I like this thread. I think sometimes we, as students, get a little big headed and dont admit fear. My hospital is great when animals are a bit cray. I think like everyone else has said you have to read animals. Usually, its pretty obvious when they want nothing to do with you. I also think its important to be confident and calm. Animals definitely pick up on these things. I am pretty scared of german shepherds. Every single experience ive had with them in the hospital has been pretty terrifying, so every time i see one i basically think im going to die lol. In all honesty though i know im going go get bit because i always let my guard down and try to comfort the scared animals. Sometimes i look back on experiences and im shocked i didnt get my face bit off. When it comes to crazy ass cats we just burrito them in a towel for the exams or vaccinations. You arent killing anyone today Satan kitty!!

Every dog that I've had a close call with has been a German Shepherd as well..... ironically, I have one! LOL.

 

[FeenyFee]

Something I've been taught: If you lose hold of the dog or are trying to grab it and it gives you signs, don't pursue. It's hard to break the habit of reaching farther for the dog you just lost hold of, but you will likely get bit. Use a pole to keep the dog from running all over if necessary. I was in a room once and reached to get the dog over to me for the exam. It gave good signs and backed up, so I didn't reach further. Before I could say anything, the owner went to touch the dog and it snapped at her. Luckily she was fine, but yeah reading animals is really important. Also, if you're about to do something, try not to hesitate. You can throw the towel over the cat, but as soon as they feel your touch, they'll bug out. We also have our dogs on slip leads and hooked up via latches to our walls at all times when we're working on them. This way, if we have to abandon ship, the dog is stuck.

We rarely use drugs in the clinics I've been in, but we have a little tank to drop cats in that we can pump iso into. We also squirt ketamine into mouths sometimes as well. There's only one or two at my current job that have to be gassed down in the carrier itself. There are a decent number of dogs that come in with new clients where we seriously can't do anything. Makes you wish you had a dart gun for vaccines

ETA: As a tech I do think it's important that, although you are scared, you're up to the task. We had a tech that was legit terrified of GSDs and rottweilers to the point where she would screamed and them and try to be terrifying herself even if the dog was a sweetie.

Thats pretty genius.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I don't really like the idea of having dogs tied via their neck to a wall. I have seen dogs nearly strangle themselves on those latches even just being hooked up on one without freaking out and just walking around.

I understand that, but I also don't like the idea of losing grip of a dog and it tearing through the back of the clinic. Or having it mauling a coworker. I've had those dogs that alligator roll, all you do is unhook them. It'd be hard for the dog to strangle themselves on a slip lead if you're supervising them, too. I've never seen that happen because of that alone (plus they'd have to really try to wrap themselves up). Usually the most damage they do is just pulling, which is no different than them ripping your arm off down the hallway when you take them back to the owner

 

[DVMDream]

I understand that, but I also don't like the idea of losing grip of a dog and it tearing through the back of the clinic. Or having it mauling a coworker. I've had those dogs that alligator roll, all you do is unhook them. It'd be hard for the dog to strangle themselves on a slip lead if you're supervising them, too. I've never seen that happen because of that alone (plus they'd have to really try to wrap themselves up). Usually the most damage they do is just pulling, which is no different than them ripping your arm off down the hallway when you take them back to the owner

They can easily get that leash tight enough fast enough that you can't just "unhook" them. I have had to cut dogs loose from those things before. Most dogs aren't going to go wildly running through the back of a clinic snapping at employees. They just want to get away. And if you have a scared/fractious animal that you are treating, no doors or windows should be open... correct? I get that things happen, but that should be one of those things that are being checked prior to doing anything.

Not only that there are other, better methods than hooking dogs up to a latch on the wall.

I have never, ever had to latch a dog to a wall to control it or keep it from "running loose". And if a dog is really going to be that bad that you are that afraid of it slipping away and being unable to simply walk over and pick the leash back up, that is a dog that should be on a rabies pole or they make leashes that are almost a "between" a slip lead and a rabies pole so that part of the leash is stiff and rigid while the rest is a soft loop to go around the dog's neck. Both of these can be much more easily controlled and reduce the risk of harm to the dog.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

They can easily get that leash tight enough fast enough that you can't just "unhook" them. I have had to cut dogs loose from those things before. Most dogs aren't going to go wildly running through the back of a clinic snapping at employees. They just want to get away. And if you have a scared/fractious animal that you are treating, no doors or windows should be open... correct? I get that things happen, but that should be one of those things that are being checked prior to doing anything.

Not only that there are other, better methods than hooking dogs up to a latch on the wall.

I have never, ever had to latch a dog to a wall to control it or keep it from "running loose". And if a dog is really going to be that bad that you are that afraid of it slipping away and being unable to simply walk over and pick the leash back up, that is a dog that should be on a rabies pole or they make leashes that are almost a "between" a slip lead and a rabies pole so that part of the leash is stiff and rigid while the rest is a soft loop to go around the dog's neck. Both of these can be much more easily controlled and reduce the risk of harm to the dog.

Unfortunately, not all clinics are built that way with the multiple doors. We latch the dogs even if they're just chilling and we're entering charges into the computer a few feet away. We latch the dogs when we're brushing them for grooming. The latch isn't the method of control, it's the backup in case you lose your restraint.

 

[LetItSnow]

I dunno. I think latching them could be a workable solution.

We have latches around our treatment tables. We don't use them like PP is describing (we just use them for temporarily keeping a normal-behavior dog in one location if someone can't actively be holding their leash), but I don't see it as necessarily a bad way to do it. If the dog goes bat**** crazy enough to actually harm itself pulling on the leash .... probably a good thing it was tied up.

I have had a dog go after someone in the hospital rather than just running away. A pitty with a neck laceration turned on one of my techs and chased the tech into a corner and then stood there and bared its fangs at her and growled and generally scared the **** out of me that I was about to lose a tech. I wasn't involved with the interaction when it happened, and was in no position to approach and help, and I wasn't even sure that was a good idea (last thing I wanted to do is have the tech on one side trapped in the corner and me approaching from behind the dog to piss it off even more). Fortunately, someone else managed to stealthily loop a slip-lead over the thing while keeping a table between them and the dog. It was scary.

Ultimately, if you get to the point a dog is chasing someone into a corner .... or you've all had to fly backwards because it snapped at someone .... you've kinda failed at the restraint thing and are relying on fail-safes (like PP's clinic using the leash to the table) to protect people, and should take that opportunity to review appropriate restraint procedures to prevent getting to that point.

 

[DVMDream]

Unfortunately, not all clinics are built that way with the multiple doors. We latch the dogs even if they're just chilling and we're entering charges into the computer a few feet away. We latch the dogs when we're brushing them for grooming. The latch isn't the method of control, it's the backup in case you lose your restraint.

I get that, but even a "chilling" dog latched to those can get tangled. And it can happen quickly. That is why I am not a fan of them. Any animal tied up via its neck is at risk of strangling itself. Put the dog in a kennel if needed. Slip the leash over your arm while entering charges. Take the dog back to the owner while you enter charges. I would hope there is a door between the front half and back half of the clinic, I don't think I have ever seen a clinic without one. I was more thinking of a dog running out a back door and getting into the street or something those doors should be closed.

And I am not saying the latch is a method of control, I am saying, it should not be a backup for if you lose control. There are other, better alternatives for "backup" and there is no need to "latch" up a dog for it to just chill out while you are doing other things.

I am just stating, I have seen more than once a dog wrap itself up on a latch and turn blue.

 

[yugen]

I am just stating, I have seen more than once a dog wrap itself up on a latch and turn blue.

Yeah, more than once a dog wraps itself up and turns blue. But the real problem isn't the latch, it's supervision of the pet. If the patient is docile enough to work with but strangles itself on a latch, the issue isn't necessarily use of the latch to me; it's that the tech didn't supervise the patient well enough. Latches are probably fine to use if there's supervision and the dog isn't hurting itself. If it's hurting itself, don't latch the pet.

I've never really heard of people putting an aggressive dog on a latch as their first means of restraint, nor as their back up. It's pretty much chemical restraint or a rabies pole in my clinic. If an aggressive dog ends up on a latch, that was a mistake -- probably due to lack of communication from the owner, no prior history, or sheer ignorance.

 

[DVMDream]

I dunno. I think latching them could be a workable solution.

We have latches around our treatment tables. We don't use them like PP is describing (we just use them for temporarily keeping a normal-behavior dog in one location if someone can't actively be holding their leash), but I don't see it as necessarily a bad way to do it. If the dog goes bat**** crazy enough to actually harm itself pulling on the leash .... probably a good thing it was tied up.

I have had a dog go after someone in the hospital rather than just running away. A pitty with a neck laceration turned on one of my techs and chased the tech into a corner and then stood there and bared its fangs at her and growled and generally scared the **** out of me that I was about to lose a tech. I wasn't involved with the interaction when it happened, and was in no position to approach and help, and I wasn't even sure that was a good idea (last thing I wanted to do is have the tech on one side trapped in the corner and me approaching from behind the dog to piss it off even more). Fortunately, someone else managed to stealthily loop a slip-lead over the thing while keeping a table between them and the dog. It was scary.

Ultimately, if you get to the point a dog is chasing someone into a corner .... or you've all had to fly backwards because it snapped at someone .... you've kinda failed at the restraint thing and are relying on fail-safes (like PP's clinic using the leash to the table) to protect people, and should take that opportunity to review appropriate restraint procedures to prevent getting to that point.

I mean, there is always that one time or exception. We used to have a latch where I worked, until we had enough animals figure out how to strangle themselves on them... kind of in a similar way to PP described... we were just letting them "chill" while we entered charges or something and somehow they were dumb enough to strangle themselves... so we ditched them. And I don't mean these animals are simply "pulling on the leash", I mean they get tangled and strangled.

And yeah, a dog can go after someone in the back of the clinic, but most of the time, they don't. Though I do agree if you are having to rely on a "latch" then your restraint methods are failing or you over-estimated your ability to restrain a dog and really need the assistance of the drugs and a good review of restraint is probably necessary.

 

[DVMDream]

Yeah, more than once a dog wraps itself up and turns blue. But the real problem isn't the latch, it's supervision of the pet. If the patient is docile enough to work with but strangles itself on a latch, the issue isn't necessarily use of the latch to me; it's that the tech didn't supervise the patient well enough. Latches are probably fine to use if there's supervision and the dog isn't hurting itself. If it's hurting itself, don't latch the pet.

I've never really heard of people putting an aggressive dog on a latch as their first means of restraint, nor as their back up. It's pretty much chemical restraint or a rabies pole in my clinic. If an aggressive dog ends up on a latch, that was a mistake -- probably due to lack of communication from the owner, no prior history, or sheer ignorance.

It doesn't take long... 2 seconds. It is kind of like a kid... you are watching them one second, the next they are into something toxic, or strangling themselves on a cord.

It isn't necessarily a failure of "supervision" as much as it is that it doesn't take long. What do you consider adequate supervision? Do I need to stare at the dog? Or is looking at it once a minute? Once every 2 minutes? If strangulation is a possibility with a latch... you have about 30ish seconds to save that dog... so basically someone needs to be staring at the dog, in which case, what is the point of hooking them on the latch?

 

[LetItSnow]

I've never really heard of people putting an aggressive dog on a latch as their first means of restraint, nor as their back up. It's pretty much chemical restraint or a rabies pole in my clinic. If an aggressive dog ends up on a latch, that was a mistake -- probably due to lack of communication from the owner, no prior history, or sheer ignorance.

I don't think PP was suggesting anyone use a latch as their first means of restraint. I thought it was pretty clear she was saying they latch them while someone else is restraining so that if the dog goes nutzo and people have to bail, the dog is constrained and can't come after them. And, like I said, we don't do that where I work, but I can see it as a reasonable approach. *shrug*

And DVMD, I do take your point. I'm just saying I can see using it as a fail-safe.