Neuropsych boarding timeline

[sike2b]

Hello,

I am a current intern and am currently applying for neuropsych postdocs. One site offered me an interview, but I am a little wary because they have no board-certified neuropsychologists on staff, and I want to be board-eligible when I complete my fellowship. I asked them about it, and one of the neuropsychologists there responded to me and said that she was in the process of getting board certified right now- she said that she passed the written examination and was moving on to the record review.

I know that ABPP requires a written exam, a review of written reports, and an oral exam, but I don't know the timeline... assuming all goes well, how long does this tend to take? If she passes everything, and I am offered/accept this position, would I be able to say I've been supervised by a board-certified neuropsychologist? She told me that completion of their 2-year fellowship would make me board-eligible, but I just wanted to double check.

Please let me know if this doesn't make sense; I feel like I rambled a bit.

Thanks for your help!

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[AcronymAllergy]

I'd imagine it's possible to get through the remaining portions of the process in two years, yes. It's in part a matter of whether she can maintain that same level of motivation in pressing through (and assuming that work and other factors don't temporarily get in the way).

You can always also email the ABCN folks to see what their stance is on, worst-case scenario, your completing a fellowship without any board-certified supervisors. I've emailed them in the past and they're very responsive (and very nice).

 

[erg923]

Is that actually a criteria for getting boarded in neuro (having supervisors that are boarded)? Thats a pretty sly little trick. I dont think the other ABPPs work that way, do they?

 

[WisNeuro]

Is that actually a criteria for getting boarded in neuro (having supervisors that are boarded)? Thats a pretty sly little trick. I dont think the other ABPPs work that way, do they?

As far as I know that is the case. I'm all for it personally. The lack of boarded npsych's definitely crossed some sites off my list.

 

[erg923]

Its a interesting way to try to grow a monopoly I guess, but seems like its paradoxically quite restrictive of the end goal at the same time.

You want to grow the board, but prevent most post-doc programs from being able to produce future board eligible npsychs because they dont have boarded npsychs? I dont get it.

 

[sike2b]

I'd imagine it's possible to get through the remaining portions of the process in two years, yes. It's in part a matter of whether she can maintain that same level of motivation in pressing through (and assuming that work and other factors don't temporarily get in the way).

You can always also email the ABCN folks to see what their stance is on, worst-case scenario, your completing a fellowship without any board-certified supervisors. I've emailed them in the past and they're very responsive (and very nice).

Thanks! Good idea- I will contact the board and ask their opinion.

Re: Needing board-certified supervisors: I understand the need for ABPP wanting to ensure quality of training/that the people teaching new neuropsychologists actually know what they're teaching. Though, I believe there are neuropsychologists who have been in the field a long time who are not boarded but are essentially grandfathered in. But, I agree with you erg: making board certification a requirement limits the number of people who can become board certified, which in turn makes it harder to get "proper" training, etc. It's a catch 22.

 

[erg923]

Well, how bout just verifying that the supervisor is actually a "neuropsychologist" with either a post-doc in neuro, or if they are older, equivalent training and experience?

 

[WisNeuro]

Its a interesting way to try to grow a monopoly I guess, but seems like its paradoxically quite restrictive of the end goal at the same time.

You want to grow the board, but prevent most post-doc programs from being able to produce future board eligible npsychs because they dont have boarded npsychs? I dont get it.

I can't think of many reputable programs without at least one boarded npsych. This board cert has been around a while. In texas alone there are at least 54 ABPP CN's. It's another way to ensure a certain standard of training in the field. Keeps us from getting overrun with people who did throwaway postdocs coming from terrible professional schools.

 

[NeuroTrope]

I can't think of many reputable programs without at least one boarded npsych. This board cert has been around a while. In texas alone there are at least 54 ABPP CN's. It's another way to ensure a certain standard of training in the field. Keeps us from getting overrun with people who did throwaway postdocs coming from terrible professional schools.

Exactly. I see things tightening up in the future, not loosening - ABPP-CN is still pretty flexible in regards to who they let in (the two-year post doc really is the key here). As our numbers increase we should continue to tighten standards. I really didn't realize it until post-doc but there's quite a learning curve and there will always be people who will try to practice neuropsychology without the necessary training.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

There are hacks all over the place in neuro. I am far from amazing, but I think I'm going to start collecting the truly bad reports.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Exactly. I see things tightening up in the future, not loosening - ABPP-CN is still pretty flexible in regards to who they let in (the two-year post doc really is the key here). As our numbers increase we should continue to tighten standards. I really didn't realize it until post-doc but there's quite a learning curve and there will always be people who will try to practice neuropsychology without the necessary training.

This. I came from a neuropsych-heavy grad school experience as well as a well-regarded neuropsych internship, but even after all that, all it really did was lay a solid foundation. It wasn't until postdoc that I really started to appreciate how to tie all that information together with respect to clinical practice and research, and to begin to understand just how much depth of knowledge is required to practice competently. If I'd stopped after internship, I likely would've thought I'd have been at least ok...and I would've been wrong. And I've certainly heard a small handful of psychologists and interns at my current hospital say things along the lines of, "I had some testing experience in grad school and took a solid rotation or two of neuropsych on internship; I'm completely competent to do neuropsych if I needed to."

 

[WisNeuro]

There are hacks all over the place in neuro. I am far from amazing, but I think I'm going to start collecting the truly bad reports.

I'm with you on that one. I saw one report where they talked about a bevy of impairments that the patient had. When I looked at the data myself, everything was in the average range or above! And this was for someone with a HS education and commensurate occupational history. I will say that of the worst reports I see, there is no "ABPP-CN" following their name. This is a minimal standard or practice that I would love to see further tightened.

 

[sike2b]

Thought people might be interested in this... the credentialing requirements from ABCN.

http://www.abpp.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3402

Of note:

• ♦ ABCN will not require that the program faculty include an ABCN certified neuropsychologist. Training must be conducted by supervisors who are themselves neuropsychologists and the candidate may be asked to provide additional materials regarding details of the residency program and/or the credentials of their supervisors.
• ♦ ABCN does not currently require applicants to train in accredited postdoctoral programs; however, candidates who complete an APA-accredited specialty program in clinical neuropsychology or a full member program of the Association of Postdoctoral Programs in Clinical Neuropsychology (APPCN) may skip items on the specialty application form and complete the credential review process more quickly. Please refer to the online application for more information.
• ♦ ABCN does not require neuropsychological training during internship. In addition, although ABCN prefers that applicants have completed an APA or CPA accredited internship program, the review decision regarding internship training is made by ABPP Central Office during the generic review. If ABPP passes the candidate’s non-APA/CPA internship credentials during generic review, ABCN will typically defer to that decision,

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Thought people might be interested in this... the credentialing requirements from ABCN.

http://www.abpp.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3402

Of note:

• ♦ ABCN will not require that the program faculty include an ABCN certified neuropsychologist. Training must be conducted by supervisors who are themselves neuropsychologists and the candidate may be asked to provide additional materials regarding details of the residency program and/or the credentials of their supervisors.
• ♦ ABCN does not currently require applicants to train in accredited postdoctoral programs; however, candidates who complete an APA-accredited specialty program in clinical neuropsychology or a full member program of the Association of Postdoctoral Programs in Clinical Neuropsychology (APPCN) may skip items on the specialty application form and complete the credential review process more quickly. Please refer to the online application for more information.
• ♦ ABCN does not require neuropsychological training during internship. In addition, although ABCN prefers that applicants have completed an APA or CPA accredited internship program, the review decision regarding internship training is made by ABPP Central Office during the generic review. If ABPP passes the candidate’s non-APA/CPA internship credentials during generic review, ABCN will typically defer to that decision,

The first two points sound very similar to the way state licensing boards approach credentialing folks who graduated from non-APA accredited grad programs and/or internships, which makes sense. Basically, if supervisors were boarded and the fellowship is APA-accredited and/or a full APPCN member, you don't have to provide much, if any, supporting documentation. If not, it probably varies from a minor inconvenience to a significant undertaking to verify the appropriateness of training.

The third bolded point is particularly applicable to current internship applicants. There's a commonly-mentioned piece of training lore about applicants needing 50% time in neuropsych. While this is can be a useful rule of thumb, neither the Houston Conference nor Division 40 guidelines explicitly require this. Rather, the amount of neuropsych training you obtain on internship should be commensurate with your level of experience and need for further training heading in. Thus, if you came from a neuro-heavy grad program, you could be ok with a more generalist internship, although you'll want at least some time in neuro. Then again, one of the advantages to attending a neuro-centric internship is that you might get rec letters from well-known folks (in addition to the "name brand" of the site itself).