Never Been Employed

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Sarovson98

Sarovson98

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Is it specifically a problem if I've never been employed before when I apply to medical school?
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Nope :/ However, my stats right now are 3.96 GPA, and I've got 3 semesters under my belt (just completed Orgo I to let you know where I am in the chemistry sequence), I'm doing research with my gen chem professor, I've volunteered at my local university hospital since September of freshman year (18 months so far so there's some commitment to a single place I know they like and I plan on continuing to do this until I play summer 2015), I'm in a First Aid/EMT organization that helps with Riley Dance Marathon/bicycle race type stuff, and I just got my EMT cert last month. I really wanted to get an EMT position somewhere this summer, but I'm taking Physics I and II and that's going to fill up both summer school sessions, and there's no way I'll have time for that or another job I don't think especially since I'll continue doing research and hospital volunteering this summer with summer school. Overall, I feel relatively satisfied with my extracurriculars so far and my GPA since it'll give me a pretty good shot I feel like at getting some interviews if I apply broadly. I just didn't know how badly it would look to have absolutely no employment. Thanks for any help with this!

The thing is I had so much time to get a simple job during high school summers to have, but I just never did it and felt like I'd be fine without it. Last summer was the only summer of college so far, and I still didn't do anything then. I regret not doing something with that time now. However, I thought medical schools didn't look at anything you did from your high school years. It at least looks good that I've had essentially full schedules (15, 17, 16 credit hours respectively for the last three semesters along with exracurriculars), so it doesn't look like I was bumming/slacking. However, I'm just not too sure how kindly they'll take seeing no employment, lol.
 
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Sarovson98 said:
Nope :/ However, my stats right now are 3.96 GPA, and I've got 3 semesters under my belt (just completed Orgo I to let you know where I am in the chemistry sequence), I'm doing research with my gen chem professor, I've volunteered at my local university hospital since September of freshman year (18 months so far), I've in a First Aid/EMT organization that helps with Riley Dance Marathon/bicycle race type stuff, and I just got my EMT cert last month. I really wanted to get an EMT position somewhere this summer, but I'm taking Physics I and II and that's going to fill up both summer sessions, and there's no way I'll have time for that or another job I don't think especially since I'll continue doing research and hospital volunteering this summer. Overall, I feel relatively satisfied with my extracurriculars so far and my GPA since it'll give me a pretty good shot I feel like at getting some interview if I apply broadly. I just didn't know how badly it would look to have absolutely no employment. Thanks for any help with this!
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Well, if you've done a lot of volunteering, I guess I would just assume you are independently wealthy and can afford to not work.

If you applied disadvantage, need financial aid, and/or tried to play up a poor background, and you NEVER worked day in your life...that would be really weird, in my opinion.
 
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I got a minor automatic scholarship to my university, and we're by no means wealthy but I'm an only child and parents can afford to pay for me without expecting me to get a job during the school year (sorry if TMI). Money isn't the concern for a part-time job, it's just the experience/work ethic/value I could get from it, but it's not like I don't have these skills already, it just would've increased them even more to have had a job.

I'm definitely not applying disadvantage or playing up a poor background at all. That would be so dishonest it would be ridiculous.
 
If You dont need to work and put that time to use doing other great things, it's not a big deal. A job offers a different experience and helps develop different skills, but is not an expected thing to have like clinical exp.

But like others said, if there's contradicting info, it could raise an eyebrow or two (like being low income but somehow magically paying for it without a job etc.)
 
Gotcha. That makes me feel a lot better! It's good to know it isn't necessarily expected.
 
Sarovson98 said:
I got a minor automatic scholarship to my university, and we're by no means wealthy but I'm an only child and parents can afford to pay for me without expecting me to get a job during the school year (sorry if TMI). Money isn't the concern for a part-time job, it's just the experience/work ethic/value I could get from it, but it's not like I don't have these skills already, it just would've increased them even more to have had a job.

I'm definitely not applying disadvantage or playing up a poor background at all. That would be so dishonest it would be ridiculous.
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I'll be honest...I think it does look kind of bad. I would definitely raise an eyebrow if I saw your app. A job teaches you a lot of things that you don't really learn while volunteering.

I'm not an admissions officer, though, so who knows.
 
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So it seems questionable to have had no employment even if the app is already very solid? I'd really like to be able to ask an adcom on this one.
 
I was just thinking of asking Lizzy, thanks for these!
 
Sarovson98 said:
So it seems questionable to have had no employment even if the app is already very solid? I'd really like to be able to ask an adcom on this one.
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No, it is not questionable at all to not list any employment. Eyebrows would not be raised.
 
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Whew, that's a relief, I'm glad to hear it from someone who's made it in already and is a Mod!
 
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My gut reaction is that it might hurt, but definitely can't help. However, if you've been gainfully occupied with ECs and research, then one can see that you haven't been sitting on your butt.

Sarovson98 said:
Is it specifically a problem if I've never been employed before when I apply to medical school?
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I would guess a significant amount of medical students have never been employed, especially outside a university lab, and no it is not a big deal for admissions. It does however represent a problem when you get to third year and beyond when when you actually have a boss, schedule, responsibility etc. It's where most of the negativity with medicine stems from in my opinion.
 
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Smokemont said:
I would guess a significant amount of medical students have never been employed, especially outside a university lab, and no it is not a big deal for admissions. It does however represent a problem when you get to third year and beyond when when you actually have a boss, schedule, responsibility etc. It's where most of the negativity with medicine stems from in my opinion.
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omg, THIS 100%.

I work in a hospital with lots of residents and doctors. The residents who never had jobs act like fishes out of water. They have no idea how to handle office politics and they have panic attacks if a research assistant looks at them cross-eyed. It's awful to watch. I think a job is VERY valuable to have under your belt, if only for your own personal growth and nothing else.
 
I think that having had paid employment is a good experience to have. That said, we do not "mark down" applicants who have not worked and lately I haven't seen anyone give much of a boost to those who have worked prior to college graduation in non-clinical positions so overall it will not hurt not to have worked.
 
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does research job, tutoring job, and freelance work paid in cash count as employment? i got plenty of those but no "formal" paycheck employment at an established entity.

i work 30+ hours a week doing private teaching/tutoring with a mentor, and all payments are made in cash.
 
aspiring20 said:
does research job, tutoring job, and freelance work paid in cash count as employment? i got plenty of those but no "formal" paycheck employment at an established entity.

i work 30+ hours a week doing private teaching/tutoring with a mentor, and all payments are made in cash.
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I think freelance work falls under "employment" for the purposes of AMCAS.

I've volunteered, I've done freelance work, and I've worked in conventional office settings. I'd say my paid office jobs were definitely the most useful in terms of learning how to work with people, how to be a team player, how to take responsibility, and how to get things done. For those reasons alone, I'd recommend getting some "real" job experience before going to med school.
 
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Nobody will care assuming you were productively engaged during that time.
 
Smokemont said:
I would guess a significant amount of medical students have never been employed, especially outside a university lab, and no it is not a big deal for admissions. It does however represent a problem when you get to third year and beyond when when you actually have a boss, schedule, responsibility etc. It's where most of the negativity with medicine stems from in my opinion.
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That's hard to believe.
 
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Ace-Co-A said:
That's hard to believe.
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I agree. What happened to work as a camp counselor, waiter, busboy, bartender, construction, etc? These are pretty normal jobs to have in high school and college. Or is it all about padding your resume with unpaid research, nowadays?
 
Ace-Co-A said:
That's hard to believe.
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It's pretty true, at least judging by what people put on AMCAS. If you had a part-time job in high school, that's probably not going on AMCAS. Most pre-meds don't work in college apart from some who work in a lab for pay or stipend. Of course if the applicant is a non-trad or had a few gap years of work before applying, that's different.
 
Ismet said:
It's pretty true, at least judging by what people put on AMCAS. If you had a part-time job in high school, that's probably not going on AMCAS. Most pre-meds don't work in college apart from some who work in a lab for pay or stipend. Of course if the applicant is a non-trad or had a few gap years of work before applying, that's different.
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So how do they buy food and clothes? I don't get it. Doesn't everyone need spending money in college?

I can't imagine not having worked over the summers, at the very least.
 
Ismet said:
Loans. Parents.
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This is fascinating to me. If I were an adcom, I would definitely mark someone down for living on loans rather than getting a real, live, paying job.

But I'm not an adcom....so I guess my opinion doesn't matter!
 
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I agree that having some kind of work experience teaches you a whole lot more than just getting a paycheck. There's also a huge difference between tutoring or freelance work and other kinds of jobs. Tutoring/freelance jobs only have one boss and no colleagues to work with. It doesn't expose you to working for the company/organization. And there's a big difference between working and volunteering. When you volunteer, you often have the independance and flexibility to say, "nah…. I don't want to go in today" that you don't have if you're paid to work. In my experience, the PI started to pay once a certain level of proficiency has been achieved, but that didn't begin automatically.
 
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Ace-Co-A said:
That's hard to believe.
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Not for me. If you get into med school then you can judge your own classmates, but I see a bunch of upper middle class students whose only concern in life has been checking things off the list of how to get into medical school. I don't blame these people for taking advantage of their fortunate opportunity, but do acknowledge this as a recipe for cynicism once the realities of medicine hit them in the face.
 
ThisCouldBeYou said:
I agree that having some kind of work experience teaches you a whole lot more than just getting a paycheck. There's also a huge difference between tutoring or freelance work and other kinds of jobs. Tutoring/freelance jobs only have one boss and no colleagues to work with. It doesn't expose you to working for the company/organization. And there's a big difference between working and volunteering. When you volunteer, you often have the independance and flexibility to say, "nah…. I don't want to go in today" that you don't have if you're paid to work. In my experience, the PI started to pay once a certain level of proficiency has been achieved, but that didn't begin automatically.
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I agree 100% with this.

Volunteering in a clinical setting is much different from actually working there (I have done both). When you volunteer, the expectations are much lower. The company/hospital is not financially invested in your performance. How many volunteers have been reamed out by their boss in front of everyone? How many volunteers have had to deal with nasty office politics? How many volunteers have been asked to do 30 hours of overtime in order to meet some ridiculous deadline?

I find it sort of scary that there are MS3s out there who have NEVER had a paying job. I can't imagine going into such a stressful situation without having mastered the basic skills.
 
I never had to work but I have since I was 15. It's nice to have extra spending money and get life experience. I can't imagine never making money on my own.
 
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QuinnTheEskimo said:
This is fascinating to me. If I were an adcom, I would definitely mark someone down for living on loans rather than getting a real, live, paying job.

But I'm not an adcom....so I guess my opinion doesn't matter!
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You'd probably hate a lot of your classmates...who haven't had to work, or used loans for all their money.

In a way, it shouldn't be surprising it occurs, especially in the middle to upper class population, where most people in your classes will fall under. I know in college, loads of people had cars bought by parents, called for money, or had loans to help pay for school, books, and entertainment. There are loads of people who work in school to get spending money, and that is very commendable. On the flip side, there are loads of people who are well off to not have to worry about that. They use loan/parent money for food, clothes, you name it. And that side is the majority of your classmates.
 
KnuxNole said:
You'd probably hate a lot of your classmates...who haven't had to work, or used loans for all their money.

In a way, it shouldn't be surprising it occurs, especially in the middle to upper class population, where most people in your classes will fall under. I know in college, loads of people had cars bought by parents, called for money, or had loans to help pay for school, books, and entertainment.
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Well...my family is upper middle class and they probably would have disowned me if I chose to live on loans rather than support myself by working. I didn't have to work theoretically, but I had a job every summer since I was 14. The motto in my family: "Don't spend money you don't have."

Most of my upper middle class friends also have had jobs. In fact, I can't think of a single person who did not have a paying job at some point. I just can't imagine how someone can be 22 years old and NEVER had a paying job. Cray cray. I think such a person would be at a HUGE disadvantage in medical school, in many ways.
 
That is a great motto, and something that isn't really appreciated with most young people today.

For a 22 year old, who went through high school not needing extra money(i.e. parents paid for things), would find spending summer hanging out with friends and going on vacations to be the thing to do for summer time. After high school, getting a full scholarship to college/took out loans to go out of state to a great school/fun school, and/or had parents set up a fund for all college spending --> not needing a job for money reasons. Then, when they are 22 and graduated, they apply to med school and haven't had a job.

Getting a job has it's perks too!!! Extra booze money to use :p
 
QuinnTheEskimo said:
omg, THIS 100%.

I work in a hospital with lots of residents and doctors. The residents who never had jobs act like fishes out of water. They have no idea how to handle office politics and they have panic attacks if a research assistant looks at them cross-eyed. It's awful to watch. I think a job is VERY valuable to have under your belt, if only for your own personal growth and nothing else.
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Completely agree with this. Most pre-meds/med students I've spoken with - and definitely most of my classmates - don't have serious employment experience apart from what are essentially academic jobs. Needless to say, working in an academic environment (e.g., a lab where you just do your own work and, depending upon the lab environment, may or may not actually interact with people in a meaningful way) is quite different than having a "real" job. I find the whole thing amusing, but you would be surprised at how severely some people struggle with the basics of working in a professional environment: showing up on time, being prepared and knowing what's going on, knowing what is and isn't appropriate in a work setting, etc.. It's quite obvious there are tons of people who have no idea what a work environment is or how to perform in one. Even basic things like dressing professionally seem to be an issue with a lot of people. Those people will be the source of much amusement when you get on the wards.

As far as the original question, no, it won't effect you negatively. However, I always view employment experience that isn't your typical work-study or academic job as a huge plus, and I almost always ask applicants about it. I find that people with work experience like that tend to be more well-adjusted and generally more pleasant to interact with. That isn't always true, of course, but that's the generalization I see.

Needless to say, getting a job for the sake of putting it on your med school app is completely missing the point.
 
i guess we all need a uniform definition of "employment". in my opinion, anything that you do that gets you paid in $$$ counts as work. if you have the skills to freelance, tutor, sell your products, then that's employment.

i find the idea that employment has to be in a formal office setting a bit upsetting.
 
aspiring20 said:
i guess we all need a uniform definition of "employment". in my opinion, anything that you do that gets you paid in $$$ counts as work. if you have the skills to freelance, tutor, sell your products, then that's employment.

i find the idea that employment has to be in a formal office setting a bit upsetting.
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Employment doesn't "have" to be in a formal office setting. BUT, I think there are things you learn in an office that you WILL NOT learn from tutoring/running gels/freelancing/making bracelets on your rainbow loom.

NickNaylor said it best. To add on to that, working in an office teaches you about how to behave in a professional, bureaucratic, sometimes glaringly unfair and annoying environment. It teaches you that 90% of jobs are about paperwork (medicine is not an exception, btw). You learn how to deal with jerky bosses, backstabbing coworkers, etc. I cannot imagine facing these issues for the first time on the wards. Recipe for disaster!!!
 
aspiring20 said:
i guess we all need a uniform definition of "employment". in my opinion, anything that you do that gets you paid in $$$ counts as work. if you have the skills to freelance, tutor, sell your products, then that's employment.

i find the idea that employment has to be in a formal office setting a bit upsetting.
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There is something to be said for being on a payroll regardless of whether it is in a lab, a restaurant, or an office. Granted, being self-employed and being one's own boss is still employment, but being accountable to someone else and, as is most often the case, working with others toward a common goal, is most common when one is hired as an hourly employee or for a salary.

One of my kids has a part-time job on campus in food service and the other has worked as a receptionist and in "after school" programs. The lessons have been as important as anything taught in the classroom.
 
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aspiring20 said:
i guess we all need a uniform definition of "employment". in my opinion, anything that you do that gets you paid in $$$ counts as work. if you have the skills to freelance, tutor, sell your products, then that's employment.

i find the idea that employment has to be in a formal office setting a bit upsetting.
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I don't think anyone said that. In fact, starting and running a somewhat successful side business (i.e., by turning a hobby into a money-maker) would be extremely impressive. And while you're correct that making money is indeed employment, I see jobs in tiers, and to be entirely candid, a job in a lab simply does not impress me in any sense apart from your accomplishments as a researcher. I would be more impressed by almost any other kind of endeavor when it comes to work experience.
 
NickNaylor said:
Completely agree with this. Most pre-meds/med students I've spoken with - and definitely most of my classmates - don't have serious employment experience apart from what are essentially academic jobs. Needless to say, working in an academic environment (e.g., a lab where you just do your own work and, depending upon the lab environment, may or may not actually interact with people in a meaningful way) is quite different than having a "real" job. I find the whole thing amusing, but you would be surprised at how severely some people struggle with the basics of working in a professional environment: showing up on time, being prepared and knowing what's going on, knowing what is and isn't appropriate in a work setting, etc.. It's quite obvious there are tons of people who have no idea what a work environment is or how to perform in one. Even basic things like dressing professionally seem to be an issue with a lot of people. Those people will be the source of much amusement when you get on the wards.

As far as the original question, no, it won't effect you negatively. However, I always view employment experience that isn't your typical work-study or academic job as a huge plus, and I almost always ask applicants about it. I find that people with work experience like that tend to be more well-adjusted and generally more pleasant to interact with. That isn't always true, of course, but that's the generalization I see.

Needless to say, getting a job for the sake of putting it on your med school app is completely missing the point.
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Sadly, this point will go missed with people who do this. After all, the sole purpose of doing the job is: "Sigh, I gotta do this **** for the app, after I get accepted, I'm dumping this place!"
 
Being an actual employee in most businesses is very different than working for free or being your own boss. As an "employee" you'll likely have the unique experience of more critical reviews and feedback from your boss, handling more office drama (esp. if people or groups ever get "squeezed out" of your organization), being more professional, learning diplomacy, learning the value of being a team player even when it's not easy, and learning to pay attention to what you say (and what it sounds like when overheard).

Part of what I learned working in the law firm and being on the first diversity committee involved learning to speak and act in a more "polished" way (when required), and to effectively argue and negotiate with attorneys and staff in the firm. I know that these skills will pay off as a doctor, and as a doctor that takes a strong interest in healthcare policy and doctors and patients rights.

To answer your question, the experience of being an employee is probably not a disadvantage with admissions, but it will be a lack of experience later on. If you manage other people, you should have experience with the sort of dynamics that go on below the management level. I've seen just about everything that has happened in Donald Trump's show The Apprentice, happen in real life, and more! Sometimes you have to see it to believe it!

If you don't start out in management on your first job, I would say a year or two in a typical corporation would be enough to erase any lack of experience. Good luck!

Sarovson98 said:
Is it specifically a problem if I've never been employed before when I apply to medical school?
Click to expand...
 
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LizzyM said:
I think that having had paid employment is a good experience to have. That said, we do not "mark down" applicants who have not worked and lately I haven't seen anyone give much of a boost to those who have worked prior to college graduation in non-clinical positions so overall it will not hurt not to have worked.
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What if said person worked in adventure sports, IT and home decor? ;)
 
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I think the problem lies within not having the experience. As said above, when you get to 3rd and 4th year it will not only be grueling, but also challenging. Having the experience of a job, I feel, better prepares you. This doesn't mean you won't do well, but it definitely will probably be somewhat of a shock to you. There is something to be said for the experience one gains when they work a job, even more so IMO when that job has nothing to do with academics at all. I worked since I was able to, because otherwise I wouldn't have had spending cash, nor insurance to drive or a cell phone to use. My parents expected me to get a job and manage my own finances. You want new clothes? Better earn a paycheck. Oh, your car insurance is due? Head down to the bank to take out money to pay it. I never faulted my parents for this and I know its made me a very well rounded, appreciative individual. Again, these characteristics aren't exclusive to teens and early-2o-year-olds who have had employment.

All-in-all, I don't think it will affect your application much, but it may make the future a little more difficult.
 
There is lots to gain in retail and fast food, in terms of working well with others, work ethic, etc. Also, probably the main jobs kids in college get, which isn't a bad thing. Everyone has to start somewhere *cue that one Drake song*.
 
In my opinion this looks bad. It makes me think that first mommy and daddy pay for everything, and you are not good at time management, as most college students take classes on top of working part time. Further, you are not well equipped at dealing with others, as most jobs require the employee to work with coworkers, please costumers, and please your boss. If you are EMT certified then don't put that to waste and get a job as an EMT.
 
Penguin Fan said:
In my opinion this looks bad. It makes me think that first mommy and daddy pay for everything, and you are not good at time management, as most college students take classes on top of working part time. Further, you are not well equipped at dealing with others, as most jobs require the employee to work with coworkers, please costumers, and please your boss. If you are EMT certified then don't put that to waste and get a job as an EMT.
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Those assumptions are a little extreme. I'm not discounting all the benefits of having a job, but to assume the person is bad at time management and bad at working with others just because they never had a job is going a bit too far, especially because these qualities can be demonstrated in a variety of different ways.

Again, never having been employed really doesn't hurt a medical school application.
 
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