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New Campaign Slogan has ties to Socialism/Marxism

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by BLADEMDA, Apr 30, 2012.

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  1. doctor712

    doctor712

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    Pgg,

    The Conservative Base demands they stick to this issue, that's why they lose elections over it.

    If I told my brother-in-law, a devout christian, that my spouse had an abortion, is pro-choice, and doesn't value the 'life' of a Blastula, would I get the vote? Never. It goes in the face of Sunday school teaching. Or so I'm told. His own quote to me was, "If my daughter has sex before marriage then I have failed miserably as a parent. Same goes for drinking alcohol." He based both decisions strictly on the bible.

    d712
  2. Narcotized

    Narcotized

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    .
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2012
  3. doctor712

    doctor712

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    Narc,

    Respectfully disagree. You guys seem to think Romney is the Financial Savior, or is it, "Obama isn't helping, so Romney couldn't be worse?" Whatever your reasoning, it seems shortsighted to think that just because Romney isn't Obama, that he couldn't do a worse job.
    I've voted Dem and Rep in my life. That same someone and his gay partner will be up the creek if there's another 9/11 or 8 more years of W, where did that get us? (granted, he stepped into a hellacious presidency). We are 3 years out of the W era and the country is in fiscal crises, and you want more of the same? Tough crowd to please. Kneejerk reaction seems to be able to only look at the current President, not what he inherited.

    Romney has proven zippo to me about running the country better than Obama. Zippo. Perhaps, those liberals who are upset with Obama (myself included) have the mindset that Obama has seen where he has failed and will adapt accordingly this second term.

    The big question is: who knows.

    And, I'd rather be a liberal than a Conservative nut job any day of the week. I'm not out there picketing for Nuke missile sites to be taken down. But to me, that seems like a more noble task then squeezing conservative christian values down my throat politically.
    Narc, what are the liberals believing in that defies logic that equates to the religious nut jobs? Please elaborate...

    D712
  4. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator

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    That fiscal-ruin/debt/weak-dollar die has been cast, the writing is on the wall.

    This election is about
    - the slope of the decline
    - (possibly) how low the overall nadir will be
    - and who sits on the Court when times grow really hard and our elected pandering leaders are under pressure to do things "for the children" that trade Constitutionally protected civil rights and liberty for empty promises and the illusion of security


    The next couple decades are going to be nothing like the 80s, 90s, and early 00s.

    You mentioned in an earlier post that one of the differences between Obama and Romney would be slower vs faster economic growth. Implicit in that comparison is the assumption that sustained growth (and I mean real growth, not politically-massaged number manipulation growth) is even possible.

    If you haven't already, consider the implications of a couple decades of minimal or no economic growth at all ... it's one thing NEITHER of the candidates will acknowledge or consider and therefore can't attempt to manage. All of us are along for the ride, but there are things individuals can do to make themselves more resilient to coming hardships.



    I basically agree that most social issues are akin to deck chairs on the Titanic at this point, but I'd put gay rights in a totally separate category than, say, abortion and stem cell research.

    Gay rights are basic, fundamental civil rights. Eventually, we're going to collectively hit bottom. When we finally reach up and grab the curb, how fast we recover and how far we climb are going to be very dependent upon what individual and collective rights we still have.

    Very broad and nearly inviolate civil rights, whether protected by the 1st, 5th, 2nd, 19th, 3rd, or no Amendment at all, define this country as much as our capitalist roots do.
  5. Narcotized

    Narcotized

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    1) Borrowing money to blow on giveaways and consumption will somehow get us out of debt.

    2) Printing money and devaluing the currency somehow makes us richer.

    3) The bigger the government, the more it takes over, the better we are.

    4) If new government jobs hire new people lowering unemployment it must therefore be good for the economy and country.

    That's just for starters. Yes they are generalizations, and yes conservatives while knowing better often act the same way in self interest, but it is truly insane, illogical, and completely irrational how liberals have for the most part been brainwashed into believing this stuff. If you don't believe that, tell me how many liberals will say that Obama's big government big spending big debt and money printing policies are absolutely terrible and disastrous?

    Those categorically incorrect beliefs are as illogical and out there as anything a "religious nutjob" believes in. The 2 groups are of the same mentality.
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  6. doctor712

    doctor712

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    Nah, this is all money talk. Conservatives are NOT religious nut jobs because of their fiscal views. Come on, you're mixing issues.
    And yes, these are generalizations and conservatives often act the same way. I meant in the way that Conservatives are religious nut jobs, how are Democrats ideologically the same form of nut job? Money talk not allowed. :D

    D712
  7. TexasDoc2388

    TexasDoc2388

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    Lol. Last night I distributed my canned goods to the canned good drive at the children's hospital, and I've also shared some of my time at the free clinic. I guess me sharing my time and goods has ties to socialism lol. The GOP has a great opportunity right now to lay out plans to balance the budget before I retire and get the economy going, but what are we talking about? Campaign slogans and how cool the President is lol.
  8. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    Charity isn't socialism. If you were sent by the Federal govt. to give out tax payer funded canned goods then that would be socialism.

    Campaign Slogans matter because words matter. FORWARD towards more govt. intervention and higher taxes matter. The debt matters.

    FWIW, the President probably is "cool" but we need "nerdy" to save this country.
  9. TexasDoc2388

    TexasDoc2388

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    When you have a great message none of the other stuff matters. Focusing on menial things like slogans and coolness factors doesn't balance the budget. I still haven't heard a plan from Romney that will get this country back on track. The only credible plan that has come out is Coburn's plan. That's what should be focused on, not Obama's eating habits as a child or Romney's car elevator.
  10. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    BLADEMDA's slogan:

    BACKWARDS!!!!
  11. midazme

    midazme

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    this whole thread reminds me of the opening on the daily show a few months ago, when Jon Stewart riffed on Glenn Beck's idiotic rantings and use of a chalkboard to draw wild conclusions and plot out a conspiracy that only he could see.

    quite frankly, calling Obama a socialist because his campaign slogan is 'forward' is about as useful as knowing that Mitt Romney strapped his dog to the top of a station wagon 24 yrs ago. it doesn't advance the discussion one bit, makes one sound a bit nutty, and at the end of the day lets the lobbyists control the legislation. i saw this during the healthcare 'debate', which consisted largely of old people on government-subsidized healthcare shouting about the evils of government-subsidized healthcare, and in the end the insurance companies are the ones who made out like bandits. same thing with the whole 'obama is a ____' (communist/Marxist/Nigerian prince). it lessens you, it lessens the discussion, and in the end no one wins.

    so please, if you're going to talk politics, try to make points that have actual merit, rather than throwing out whatever you can to see what sticks.

    also, can we stop with the over-usage of smilies and changing font? it's like reading one of the original Alta Vista websites from the '90s.
  12. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    You had me until this...

    :smuggrin:
    :lol:
    :rofl:
    :slap:
    :boom:
    :banana::banana::banana:
    :diebanana:
  13. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    [​IMG]
  14. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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  15. doctor712

    doctor712

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    That's no good Blade. You see, in an 1874 speech given in London, Marx used the term "restore" three times.

    So, ya know, that's a Marxist slogan if ever I read one.

    I like the America part though.

    D712 :D
  16. doctor712

    doctor712

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    The question then becomes: where do these cuts come from?

    My sons' teachers' salaries? Books for his classes? Infrastructure so I can get him to school? Police officers? Ambulance drivers? Scientific exploration and medical research? NIH? Gay rights' initiatives? HIV meds and education to stem the disease spreading? CIA? The All Important War? Missile Defense? :roll eyes: Air Traffic Controllers? Vaccination programs? DOJ and less Feds on the streets to catch the bad guys (many agencies are already on budget freezes)?

    What does Obama support that Ron Paul wants to cut...? It's GOTTA COME FROM SOMEWHERE.

    Or,

    Forget all of the above because Ron Paul will not be our next President...

    D712
  17. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    In my house I live on a budget. If I want a Ferrari I must pay for it. Ditto for a second home. The fedral govt. takes in only so much money per year. It must learn to spend responsibly on what it gets not what it wants.

    Now, where will the cuts be made? Everywhere. Dial back spending to 2008 levels and freeze EVERYTHING for 5 years.
  18. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    Can you unilaterally raise your own salary?

    Do you have nuclear weapons pointed at your creditors?

    Can you print your own currency?

    Can you get your debt financed at almost 0% in near unlimited quantities?

    The individual home analogy for the federal government is really weak and shows a lack of understanding of macroeconomics.
  19. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator

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    Yes, he / we can work more hours or get a second job.


    :eyebrow:

    Exactly what options are you suggesting that opens up? Threaten to default, with a 'nyah-nyah you can't touch us' thrown in?

    Regardless, there are two parts to the creditor problem:
    1) Defaulting, or not paying back existing debt. We could do that.
    2) Future borrowing, here's where they have power over us. We can't make creditors lend to us.

    Do you see why threatening creditors isn't such a clever plan?


    What makes you think this will work (in perpetuity) for a government?


    What makes you think this will work (in perpetuity) for a government?


    People aren't governments, but your suggestions that printing and perpetual near-0% borrowing (which is actually more printing in practical terms) ... and that some measure of default or debt renegotiation at nuclear gunpoint ... are somehow reasonable options is really weak and - well, you get the idea.
  20. countingdays

    countingdays SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor

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    Cut medicaid, food stamps, section 8.
    Raise social security eligibility age.
    Privatize aids and gay rights initiatives.
    Cut military spending including closing almost all bases in europe.
    Cancel all tax deductions and lower all tax brackets, but not so much that it won't be revenue positive.
    Delete the department of education.
    Pay federal employees less than private sector instead of more, job security makes up for decreased income, they shouldn't make more.
    Decrease regulations that increase the cost of doing business and practicing medicine without improving anything.
    Exploit all energy resources of america. Cutting imports increases tax revenues and security and employment.
    Last edited: May 3, 2012
  21. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    Why don't we just shoot the poor? It would be quicker and easier to dispose of the bodies.
    Shoot the old people too (would save so much Medicare money).
    How much are we spending on this right now, 1e-6 cents on the dollar?
    Could save some money, but I don't think the bulk of our military spending is in Europe.
    Essentially by definition won't help the debt. Why not make it revenue positive?
    Why? Insignificant fraction of budget.
    Federal employees aren't really paid that well (unless we're talking really menial labor). I don't see you taking a VA job... I agree there are some cuts to be made there though.
    Some regulations are stupid, some are good.
    Exploit all energy resources? We already are. We're even paying oil companies to take our resources. This is a minor issue from a US economy standpoint unless we restrict oil exports too.
  22. TexasDoc2388

    TexasDoc2388

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    I notice you didn't say cut Medicare and Social Security. It's easy to cut goods from the poor, but let's not cut the benefits of people who vote. That's exactly what politicians do. Everything needs to get cut not just programs for the poor.
  23. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    A) Never actually stated any policy positions based off this.
    B) Just because something cannot be done in perpetuity doesn't mean it can't be done short term.

    My point was that a micro analysis of the US government's role in the economy is inherently flawed. It has many more complicated options available to it.
  24. doctor712

    doctor712

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    I dunno GS, some seem pipe-dreamish.
    Cut medicaid?
    Raise social security age? - how is that going to go over with the people that have worked for 40 years (some doctors surely), did their job, and now are ready to retire, and BOOM, F U. I know we need to cut, but I don't think that's the place to do it.
    You're saying federal employees make more than private sector? :confused:
    The starting salary for a DEA Agent at GS-5 level...is pennies. I think 42K, maybe even less. Cops get paid bupkis. A journeyman federal agent only pulls in 110K at the END of his career, after 25 years... compare that to security consultant in the private sector. this is backwards, G workers make nothing. A G attorney makes pennies compared to a private attorney. A doctor for the CIA: I think it was like 150K. You think that's what Noy, Sevo, Plank, Pgg, and others are making in anesthesia is private sector?
    All I agree with here is your energy policy...
    D712
    Last edited: May 3, 2012
  25. doctor712

    doctor712

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    Not sure we can do that Blade. You see the war on terror continues on, 2008 spending? In the middle of the economic crisis when we were wondering if our back accounts still had FDIC insurance? Yeah, not possible. Remember, this War costs $$$$$$$$$$$, now, I supported and support the war and the troops. But it, our safety and security, comes at a price. It's been 10 years since the War started and you want to slash spending for EVERYTHING because, apparently, that's easiest. We're living in a time of recovery, did Berlin look good after WWII? Took decades and decades. Our economy is Berlin. It'll take time. Things caught up to us, we need a SMART, STRATEGIC spending budget. Slashing IMPORTANT and critical elements of the budget is foolish, when their is plenty of pork on that barrel that can be fried right away.

    You know how else you can cut a deficit? EARN MORE. I don't see that as part of your plan for America at large....

    Short-sighted plan is what I'd say to your generic slash-away-without-thought policy.

    D712
  26. Gern Blansten

    Gern Blansten Account on Hold

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    I think medicare and social security ages need to be incrementally increased over a 10 year period. Neither system was intended to have the burden of 20-30 years of people's lives dependent upon them. The unfairness is impossible to avoid, but how fair is it for people in their 40's to continue to pay into it with no glimmer of hope of ever seeing any benefit? It is a ponzi scheme that has just about run its course.
    I don't claim to have all of the answers, but to continue those two systems as is is just ignoring the huge problem that it is not sustainable.
  27. countingdays

    countingdays SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor

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    It wasn't meant to be an all inclusive list.
    Not all cuts go in in one day. Of course you phase in age increases for medicare and social security
    I said to make it revenue positive
    Last edited: May 3, 2012
  28. hoyden

    hoyden

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    [​IMG]



    Forward, to Communism Victory!

    Still remember that :barf:
  29. countingdays

    countingdays SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor

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    That was an oversight.
    Cut Medicare and Social Security.
    I agree, everything needs to get cut.
  30. Substance

    Substance

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    I was thinking the same thing.
  31. Narcotized

    Narcotized

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    .
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  32. Narcotized

    Narcotized

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  33. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator

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    It's frustrating isn't it. But understandable.

    The consequence of unlimited credit at 0% and central bank printing is inevitably inflation, but they're being told there is no inflation. Or if there is any, that it's low and desirable.

    I've been told my entire life, over and over again, by people with degrees and pedigrees and positions of honor and authority, that "a little bit of inflation" is good and desirable. Any questioning of that claim is typically met with a "well wages inflate at a faster rate" kind of response which at best misses the point, at worst is just another layer of deception.

    3% inflation cuts the value of currency by nearly 90% over the average American lifetime.

    It is a deliberately regressive tax on the poor. It punishes savers, and forces investors to chase higher returns at higher risk to beat inflation - leading to asset bubbles, fraud, and a brittle financial system that can't tolerate even short term losses or recessions.

    It's insane.


    I read posts from johnnydrama and others stating that deficit spending and QE are OK for a little while, that a recession is the wrong time to cut spending, and I just marvel at the total obliviousness to the big picture. And that is
    1) unsustainable deficit spending started 30+ years ago, it's not a product of or response to the recession that started in 2008
    2) inflation in the cost of stuff people need to live, work, produce, and move is ongoing, at rates substantially higher than official values
    3) the exception to inflation is in hard assets and wages, which have been either deflating or stagnant ... or locked in boom/bust bubbles
    4) the kind of sustained economic growth we saw over the last 50 years is probably no longer possible - mainly because of rising energy costs; global oil production has failed to increase for nearly a solid decade now, despite record high prices and motivation to discover and produce new sources


    It's just astonishing that the very people who wail and gnash their teeth about hurting old people by cutting social security tend to the be the same people who most favor policies that will devalue dollars the most (including the ones distributed by social security checks).

    What good is a fully funded social security program with annual 2% cost of living adjustments, when real inflation is 5%? In 25 years, that's equivalent to a 50% cut.

    But we're the naive heartless ones for wanting to cut spending.
  34. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    I don't really have a heart, I just think about the logical conclusions of some policies.

    If we drop Medicare, no one will insure the elderly (can't be done at a profit with reasonable rates). Many of them will die sooner.

    My main issue with the arguments posted here is: why is the debt suddenly a problem? By all objective indicators it isn't yet. Yes, it needs to be controlled in the future with a mixture of spending cuts and tax increases.

    But government needs to act as a counter-cyclical force, and the cuts that are currently happening (just look at total government employment numbers) are already restricting our recovery.

    I know it's pointless to argue with you guys, but basically every prediction made by your economic philosophy has been proven false by this last downturn. Someone needs to shoot your economic zombies in the head with a silver bullet or something I guess.
  35. cincincyreds

    cincincyreds

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    Alright, here is the situation. The Dems and the Repubs are one in the same. Obama is basically a corporate fascist, except no boots or ovens involved.

    The issue is there is a finite amount of stuff. That is why economics is the dismal science. There is no magic wand to decrease gasoline prices.

    We really only have on issue in this country, and the world for that matter for humanity which is energy. They easy oil has all been dug up. We have used about half the amount of oil that has been placed in this planet, whether from dinosaurs or god or whatever you believe. This theory of half the oil being dug up is called PEAK OIL! Google it, I have known about this theory for the last 15 years. It is very scary the ramnifications of this.

    Our country uses 20/80 million barrels of oil produced daily. We use 25%. We need a real energy policy, a type of Manhattan project. Until we figure this out, nothing else really matters!

    Printing money by our fed is akin to legalized counterfeiting. This just enriches the .1% bankers.

    These are things to think about before you start fighting about abortion, gay marriage. I could care less about these issues. They are nonissues.

    Lastly, if you notice, the presidents on Mount Rushmore were all war presidents.
  36. doctor712

    doctor712

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    So not true. For one, we have terrorism to deal with. A REAL issue. I can think of a few others. GRANTED, I'd LOVE to see an energy policy that really shines. Or sparks as it were. And I think that is possible. Kudos to the municipalities that use alternative energies and reward people who do the same with tax incentives.

    that's too bad. I care about issues other than energy. As long as the sun is burning, we will have a source of energy and we will tap into it. We just need scientists to work hard in that regard. Which starts with education. Oh, so we need money for education. And teachers. And this, and that, and this.... It's all intertwined CincincyReds...

    D712
  37. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator

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    The elephant in the room.

    Global oil production has been FLAT since 2005. We're digging up oil sands and shale, expensive, dirty processes that have extremely short production times per site. Deep water drilling is expensive and accompanied by new and hard to control risks - we're not doing it because it's fun, we're doing it because we have no choice. The Saudi fields are in decline - there's reason to believe their advertised spare capacity just doesn't exist. All the easy oil is gone.

    Oil prices have been quite high for half a decade now (+/- blips) but despite that tremendous motivation for exploration and development, global oil production hasn't increased. We've seen some small regional increases (including in the US) but these are neither sustainable nor really significant in the long run.

    Peak oil isn't about "running out" of oil. It's about a supply peak in the face of increasing demand (particularly 2+ billion people in India and China), very high oil prices, and the crushing effect these oil prices have on economic activity. This isn't crackpot tinfoil conspiracy theory, this has been in progress for years now.


    And yet the talk from all sides is all about recovery and return to annual 3% economic growth, year after year. This is ridiculous! Absent a truly paradigm shifting energy producing invention (eg efficient safe clean cold fusion from seawater), those days are over. Energy drives economic growth - always has. Cheap oil is gone forever.


    We ought to be making plans for the next 10-40 years based on the assumption of 0-1% average growth. Instead, we're trying to spend our way out of a recession with borrowed money, desperately hoping that doing so will buy us time for growth to take off again, and allow us to grow out of the hole.


    Who said anything about dropping Medicare?

    The real choice is this: significant voluntary cuts to Medicare, Social Security, and the military, with a balanced budget and credible debt plan, sooner rather than later ... or pretend these sacred cows can't be touched, and let a decade or so of ongoing QE/inflation make those cuts for us via devalued dollars (meanwhile accepting the added risk of a crisis and hard crash vs slow decline that this ostrich behavior creates).

    I know what's going to happen, and so do you - none of these things will be cut in any meaningful way. It's political poison because politicians are animals who respond only to money, votes, and election-cycle time frames. We'll keep on borrowing and adding to the debt. The Fed will monetize as much as they can get away with, all the while massaging numbers and giving lip service to keeping inflation at "desired" low levels. The dollar will decline in real purchasing power.


    Pointless, no; difficult, yes - I think mostly because we clearly disagree on the most basic assumption of all: you think this economic slump is 'just another recession' and that a return to sustained growth is possible, I don't. I realize I'm in the minority here; other than Narcotized, I don't think very many really share my longer term pessimism.

    The debt and energy issue has implications for how western civilization will fare over the next 100 years, and it's an ugly scene. You (and Obama/Romney/pals) have an event horizon of a few years, or an election cycle, or a decade.

    It's no wonder we disagree so much on what should be done today. But convince me I'm wrong and I'll change my mind.
  38. countingdays

    countingdays SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor

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    No one said drop medicare. You cut medicare spending by raising the eligibility age, cutting usless end of life futile procedures, raising copays.

    We have plenty of coal and nat gas for centuries,
  39. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    Not politically possible. Google "death panels".

    We need something like NICE in Britain that looks at cost-benefits of treatment and cuts off government subsidized insurance for things that don't make the cut.

    There are also many examples where we use expensive treatments for the entire population to save only a tiny fraction. We should be able to target that more effectively with advances in pharmacogenomics.

    As for energy, I have faith in technology. We can't deny the laws of physics, but we'll continue getting closer to the theoretical limits.

    We need better battery technology and a better electrical grid, add in nuclear, solar, gas/coal, etc, we'll survive the loss of oil.

    I'm more worried about the Chinese having control of the world's rare earth metals than the depletion of world oil.
  40. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    Also, of we're having a rational debate about ways to cut Medicare/Social Security costs with the least societal impact:

    Taxes going into those programs should cover all income, not just the first ~90k.

    Benefits should be means-tested. The wealthy should pay in more and get out less or nothing until they actually need it. (E.g. my grandparents have $500k of health insurance from my grandfather's former employer. They have barely touched it thanks to Medicare. Plans like that should be used first.)

    I don't really have a firm position on pushing back when Medicare benefits start. What I really think should happen is that anyone should be able to buy into Medicare and the cost should decrease according to means and/or age. The precise cutoff would be less of an issue there.

    The problem with just increasing the age from 65 to 67 is that it would barely change costs. People would just defer care for two years, and might even end up requiring more expensive interventions due to delayed care.
  41. TexasDoc2388

    TexasDoc2388

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    Look, even though I know it will cause a big effect on the economy, we need to balance the budget. It has to be in a balanced way though. One can't realistically expect to cut 1.2 Trillion dollars quickly and the budget needs to be balanced yesterday. When you have surpluses, you are able to spend on education, technology, and the poor; but right now we can't afford it. There are plans out that will do this if both parties would take a serious look at it. Of course if you cut one penny from entitlements, Democrats explode; if you raise one nickel of taxes either through closing loopholes or raising rates, Republicans explode. Both sides have to give in order to quickly bring the budget into balance. After that we can go back to giving tax breaks to the 1% because I'll be in that category by then, lol.
  42. cincincyreds

    cincincyreds

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    Finally someone that sees things the way I see them. Yes, I believe the number one issue is energy and we will never recover from this mess unless we figure it out. You can't print dollar bills to get out of this. This is not about 1% versus the 99%. The 1% need energy also.
  43. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator

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    Hope and faith is a lousy plan.

    Oil isn't just fuel, it's used to make everything and fertilize food crops.

    Oil production follows a very predictable and well described pattern. Production in a region rises as wells are dug, it peaks, and then over time gradually decreases as individual well output slows.

    When that region is "the United States" you see a peak in the early 1970s.

    [​IMG]

    When that region is "the planet earth" the peak appears to have been hit in 2005.

    This is a problem that has huge implications for the world, especially the single country that consumes 20-25% of global production at the moment.


    I'm not especially worried about that.

    a) This is an area where technology and research really can reduce resource use or fill current needs with alternatives.

    b) China produces most of the rare earth metals in part because they're willing to destroy the environment to do it. We've closed most rare earth mines in the US because they're dirty. Push came to shove, we could reopen them.

    c) The reason China is producing rare earth metals is to put them in products to sell to us.
  44. yappy

    yappy

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    How do you cut the fed budget? Change the performance metrics.

    Polticians get 30k base salary plus a % of every dollar they cut from the federal budget. Isnt' that how CEO's are held accountable to their share holders?

    If I can make a huge windfall in 1 term what do I care about reelection? We would just have to define some "core" that cannot be cut.
  45. doctor712

    doctor712

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    Gypsy did. Three times...

    Here...

    Here...

    and here.

    :D

    I understand you guys make bupkis when the Medicare patient walks in, but I don't think it should be cut. Maybe there's a way to modify, pay partial benefits, make modifications to what is covered (for example, a smoker with cancer that goes in for a laryngectomy AFTER a diagnosis and a proven continuation of smoking) maybe shouldn't be covered. I have a heart, but you have to have a brain...

    D712
  46. countingdays

    countingdays SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor

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    Is it really hard to understand that cutting doesn't mean dropping something altogether? Do you really think I mean a 100% cut, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
  47. doctor712

    doctor712

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    Don't be so sensitive, I was making a lighthearted reply to PGG.

    And, is it really hard to understand that dropping doesn't mean cutting something altogether? Who said anything about 100%?
    ;)

    D712
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  48. yappy

    yappy

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    The cuts in medicare need to be done by having the elderly fill out DNR's or advanced directives or just making them or their estate cover the hail merry care that makes up ~50% of medicare costs.

    Cut the rest then make it a payment assist as Paul Ryan suggested.

    Vote Yappy for president in about 30 years.

    My slogan?

    "United States: Winning to the Nth degree!"

    That is how you'll know.
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  49. johnnydrama

    johnnydrama I'm no Superman

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    There are alternatives to oil, there are no alternatives to rare earth metals. I'm not denying that oil is disappearing, or that energy will get more expensive.

    1) We will move to other sources (although that requires better batteries and a better grid).
    2) With increased energy prices, the market will force better efficiency.

    One of the reasons we use oil for everything is because it's there and it has historically been cheap, not because it's the only option.
  50. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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