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New Doctor of Behavioral Health Degree

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by candice1984, 04.25.12.

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  1. candice1984

    candice1984

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    Hello everyone,

    I am a student in a masters mental health counseling program. A classmate of mine, who is graduating this semester, said that she is going for her doctorate in behavioral health online at Arizona State University. Aparently this is a new degree in the mental health field. I think it is only offered at ASU. I Googled it and couldn't find any other schools that offer this. It's a two year program and you must have a masters in counseling/therapy before you are accepted. I know that many masters students (including myself) are reluctant to enter a PHD or PSY D program due to the 5+ years they take to complete. Could this be the new alternative? Here is the link to the program site:


    http://asuonline.asu.edu/dbh

    They claim it is NOT a psychology degree. Do you think this degree is legit? Will it be recognized as a doctorate degree by employers and professional associations? Do you think other schools will start offering this degree? It was not long ago that the Psy D. was the "new kid on the block". Let me know what you think.

    Thanks for your feedback! :)
     
  2. 4410

    4410

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    This sounds like a program for professionals licensed at the MS level as an LPC or other mental health licensure. A number of counseling programs are doing this as you are already licensed at the MS level and the program is additional clinical training in behavioral health. It should not be confused with a doctoral degree clinical psychology program. It could be a good option if you want to continue working as an LPC but have additional training. Not sure if you would be able to call yourself Dr. ? since technically it is not a counseling program.
     
  3. AcronymAllergy

    AcronymAllergy Neuropsychologist Moderator

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    This came up in a thread in the social welfare psych forum. My view is that you can of course call yourself Dr. _____ if you'd like, as I don't believe the term is legally regulated. However, if you do so in a clinical setting/with patients, I feel it's your ethical obligation to educate them, even if only briefly, on the specifics your training (that is, that your doctoral degree is in ______, and that you are not a physician or licensed psychologist). Not everyone will agree with me I'm sure, though, and I realize that.
     
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  4. 4410

    4410

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    For some reason there are many theology professionals who also are LPC's. They have a Dr. of Theology degree and a MA in professional counseling. Many of them work in their Church or they see primarily individuals from their religion and they advertise as Christian Counselors. Although they may conclude that counseling and theology are closely related degrees, they may get in trouble with the LPC licensure board if they use Dr. ? when representing themselves as a LPC.

    Here lately, a good number of clinical psychology programs are Christian Based and some of these programs are APA accredited programs where you get the MA degree in Theology and the PsyD/PhD degree in clinical psychology. So in essence you have a dual degree in theology and psychology. Some of these individuals do both...minister in a Church and also a private practice in psychology. So, when they are working under their minister hat may they refer to themselves as Dr. ? The Church has different regulations and a minister may use the title Dr. even if they do not have a Dr. of Theology degree.

    I believe they frequently use Dr. in both settings even though their Dr. degree is in psychology. I know of individuals who do this and when I ask them about their rationale, they frequently imply that using the title Dr. in the ministry is not based on completion of a Dr. of theology degree and that the Church is not under the guidelines of the Psychology Board. The Church regulatory board allows them to use the title Dr. when they work as a minister. Somehow the Church uses the title Reverend or Pastor but these titles have nothing to do with degree as to be an ordained minister a degree is not required. Once a person has the title of ordained minister and a doctorate degree, then they may use the title Dr. regardless of the doctorate degree specialization. However, the ordained minister may choose not to use the title Dr.

    So basically if you have a Dr. of Behavioral Health and work in a Hospital or Physical Health Setting, I guess you may use the title Dr. as long as you are not using it under your LPC license, since your LPC license has regulatory requirements for using the title Dr.

    Alternative medicine or Holistic medicine is now granting Dr. degrees where people are trained in using Herbs, acupuncture, massage, yoga, etc... There are some programs in California and you can obtain the Dr. degree in three years. Well some LPCs have gone through this training and they now have a PhD degree in alternative medicine. Some of these practitioners work independently as LPC's at the master's level. Now that they have the PhD in alternative medicine may they now advertise or put themselves out as Dr. ?, LPC. No they are not suppose to do this according to ethics regulation of LPC. Looking at the curriculum for the PhD in Behavioral Medicine at ASU it seems that their are similarities with Alternative Medicine Doctoral programs.

    In Eastern Countries many of these alternative medicine practices are the norm but in Western Countries they are new degree programs. I know a female from China who is an LPC from a school in America but she has some sort of degree training at the doctoral degree level in alternative medicine. She cannot use her doctoral degree from China as this is not a recognized doctoral degree for medical boards. She was taking some online coursed from a program in California to integrate her doctoral degree in China to a Dr. degree in the USA for these alternative medicine practices. She is certified in acupuncture treatments here in the USA but apparently her doctoral degree training in China involved using Herbs and nontraditional medicine that she is not allowed to use here in the USA. She does not use the Dr. title but she uses her LPC title. Since to some degree nontraditonal medicine is not closely regulated in the USA some individuals may practice nontradtional medicine without being licensed to practice these types of treatments.

    In Eastern Countries the MD degree uses herbal, acupunture, and what we would consider alternative medicine. Surprisingly, in these countries the MD degree does not ensure a lucrative income, as teachers make more money than do doctors. This is one reason why many of the MD's from India, China, etc.. end up emigrating to the USA to work.
     
    Last edited: 04.26.12
  5. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus

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    Do you think this degree is legit?
    No, not like an established degree in a field that is widely accepted. It can be completed in 18 months and there is no required dissertation....enough said.

    Will it be recognized as a doctorate degree by employers and professional associations?
    It depends on the setting. I personally would be very skeptical of the degree because it is new and I'd be concerned with what you can actually do with the degree.

    Do you think other schools will start offering this degree?
    Sadly, yes....if ASU can show that students will sign up for it and pay money.

    It was not long ago that the Psy D. was the "new kid on the block".
    That seems like an apples v. oranges comparison, given that it was developed from the field and the guidelines were set and utilized by multiple programs. It seems like ASU threw together a degree and is testing it out.
     
  6. Neuropsych2be

    Neuropsych2be

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    This program is designed to help M.A level psychotherapists upgrade their skills to function in integrated healthcare. This program was the brainchild of the horrid Nick Cummings. And yes I shudder as I type his name. But at least Cummings recognizes that the future for the field lies in integrated care where psychologists work side by side with physicians and nurse practitioners as primary healthcare providers rather than being "mental health" providers. I don't think this degree is the way to do that.
     
    Last edited: 04.27.12
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  7. futureapppsy2

    futureapppsy2 Ed Psych PhD student Moderator Gold Donor

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    Admittedly, I'm not familiar with him, so I'd be very curious to hear why you have such a strong negative opinion about him.
     
  8. Neuropsych2be

    Neuropsych2be

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    Nick Cummings is a former APA president who advocated for the transition to managed care back in the day. There was a period of time when he supported capitation which has thankfully not occured on a massive basis. He once published a paper on what he called long-term intermittent psychotherapy. basically rather than use longer term therapy he felt that the future role of psychologists would be to provide people with psychological "tune ups" across a time frame of decades. My impression was that this model was utter B.S. Nick was very prominent in the 1990's. In fact he was one of the early psychologists to work for Kaiser Permanente and create their early model of HMO based psychological practice. He believes that psychology must evolve to be a primary care discipline and integrate itself into the mainstream healthcare system rather than being marginalized as "mental health providers." On this one thing, he and I agree. NIck Cummings is also one of the driving forces behind NAPP and has also spoken positively about reparative therapy..
     
    Last edited: 04.27.12
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  9. ilikepsych

    ilikepsych

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    One thing I know about this program is that it is definitely NOT supported, affiliated with, or endorsed by the ASU psychology department. I think it was pushed by ASU brass as a money making means-- much like PsyD programs are. I certainly would not want to invest in this program, as it is unclear whether a degree will have any value.
     
  10. candice1984

    candice1984

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    I agree. $45,000 is a lot to waste for a degree that could be BS.
     
  11. mkberry85

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    While I realize this is an old thread, I still would like to post some comments just for future readers.

    The DBH is a "child" of ASU. This degree has been argued multiple times since they implemented it. The degree is not meant to provide licensing/certification, or to provide additional licensing/certification. I think, at least their original conceptualization of the program, was to provide training into the integration of behavioral health into medicine (integrative behavioral health). The program can be of benefit for knowledge, but being the program is so unknown and lack any true "merit" to it, I doubt having the degree will give you an edge for employment. The program is designed for already licensed (or license eligible) clinicians to further your knowledge. Personally, I would advise against the program. If you already have your masters and license in counseling, I would suggest a doctorate in CES or doctorate in counseling/clinical psychology.

    Now, to address some other individuals:
    If you complete this degree, you will be able to call yourself a doctor (providing ethical and employer regulations). But, some ethical guidelines forbids you from identifying yourself as doctor unless the degree is directly related to your license, and being this is so new, not sure how some Board will view it. Likewise, I know some employers that will only allow physicians to be called doctor (mostly psychiatric hospitals; in fact, a NP that I know that has two doctorates- DNP and PhD- is not allowed to be addressed as Dr and one of the directors as a PsyD and could not be addressed as Dr). This could be a licensed counselor that has a doctorate in educational leadership cannot be called Dr...., a licensed counselor with a ThD/DMin/etc cannot be called Dr....

    I don't understand how this program is being compared to a PsyD program, and the PsyD being called a means for money making.
     
  12. LAPsyGuy

    LAPsyGuy

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    You would be licensing and practicing under your masters. There are several non-licensable doctorates for masters level clinicians. I guess you'll have to decide whether the training they give you would augment your masters training or whether the title "Dr." is a turn on even though you'll be licensed at the masters level.
     
  13. DynamicDidactic

    DynamicDidactic Unestablished Non-member

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    The ASU thread got me thinking about this program again. It looks like its really marketing itself differently than it was before. ANd it really all is about the marketing.
    http://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs/graduate/doctor-behavioral-health

    watch the video.

    Additionally, it seems all reference to Nick Cummings have been removed.
     
  14. smalltownpsych

    smalltownpsych

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    This stuff makes my blood boil and my stomach churn. "It sounds cliche, but the Doctor of Behavioral Health degree is what I have been looking for my whole life."
    :boom::barf:
    You can't be posting stuff like this so that I can see it first thing in the morning. :nono:
    :takes a few deep breaths: I'm supposed to be calmer than my patients!
     
  15. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus

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    Quality programs don't need to advertise and convince students to apply. Contrast that with programs that need to actively recruit and convince students that the training is worth the significant debt...
     
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  16. MamaPhD

    MamaPhD Psychologist, Academic Medical Center

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    This sounds like a glorified health coaching program. What a colossal waste of money.
     
  17. Dr. TEJ

    Dr. TEJ

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    I would like to add the following. Colleges are quite competitive these days and when they get new programs they often let the public know through advertising. Your best bet is to determine what you want to do with your doctorate. Does the school offer the courses that will lead you to your outcome (your desired career). Please also know that terminology in fields changes through the years. Persons with intellectual disabilities used to be referred to as persons with developmental disabilities and before that persons were called mentally retarded. Behavioral health is more encompassing of the total person as it also includes the biology of the individual. Behavioral health is synonymous with mental health otherwise. Ask the questions that need to be asked to the people who have the answers. I wish you the best of luck in your quest.
     
  18. Pragma

    Pragma Neuropsychologist

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    Where did you come up with this thought? Because it is total hogwash.
     
  19. PBCocce

    PBCocce

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    :claps:
     
  20. smalltownpsych

    smalltownpsych

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    Is there a term that applies to this type of poster who joins SDN just to defend a program like this and try to make it sound as though it is not just providing an easy doctorate for cash?
     
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  21. bmedclinic

    bmedclinic

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    troll, apologist, fsps student, etc. All interchangeable imo.
     
  22. bmedclinic

    bmedclinic

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  23. Adam H

    Adam H

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    This degree is not designed to replace a psychologists degree. It is simply evolving to meet the needs of the current health care system which includes integrated care, a concept most psychologists are very unfamiliar with. It is also designed to help the student work in primary care settings, a stark deviation from the familiar 50 minute session in the traditional therapy settings, another stark difference most clinicians, including psychologist are unfamiliar and uncomfortable with.

    The focus is two fold, learning how to deliver brief, evidenced based services in 15-30 minutes sessions, every 4-6 weeks, just like a primary care physician, as well as providing immediate services or hand-offs, and using interventions that have a measurable impact on the individual's comorbid health problem (physical disease, and mental illness. Think diabetes, and depression for example).

    In addition, there is a large emphasis in learning models of health care, population health, health care economics, and behavioral health care management. Health care finance is a very difficult subject and with changes in reimbursements organizations will require clinicians to demonstrate costs savings and improved health outcomes, rather than just being reimbursed per encounter.

    When physicians are paid based on incentives, by improving the health of their panel, they will require clinicians with advanced knowledge, and skills to be apart of their practices. This includes a very close collaboration with the PCP. This is a very important concept.

    It is not accurate to compare this degree to a PhD, or similar psychology degree, as they are vastly different. There is no original research required, as research isn't reimbursed by insurance, and is generally not apart of providing clinical services on a day to day basis. It is important for other reasons. This doctorate requires a lengthy research based project, which includes an on-site practicum under the supervision of clinical director or medical director, which resembles a dissertation in that it promotes the furtherance of integrated care.

    Psychology is still the least paid position in health care, Registered Nurses are generally paid more, the APA has successfully made that happen. The majority of psychological services, such as therapy, can be delivered via a master's level clinician. A PhD does not guarantee higher income, status, or a tenured position. This all depends on the individual, their knowledge, interest and ambitions. Just like any other degree out there including this one from ASU.

    If you want to teach psychology at the university level, or conduct research, or psychological/ personality evaluations or provide expert testimony, then a PhD is probably what you want. If you want to provide clinical services, treatment and participate in research, but not focus on it then remain a master's level or find a clinical degree that matches your interest like DBH or PsyD.

    In my opinion, the DBH will help you be a better clinician/therapist, regardless of where you practice. It will also help if you decide behavioral health administration and management is for you.

    Although there is a lot of overlap, each degree has it's strengths and prepares the student for a different type of work.

    One last point, most of the professors/instructors in the ASU program are either psychologists, MD's or DBH graduates. Most are published, and the current program is supported by the Mayo Clinic.
     
  24. Adam H

    Adam H

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    Nice reply, and should be helpful to the readers. Other responses here by "psychologists" show a lot of bitterness, bordering on anger or fear. Thank you for the sound, nonjudgmental advice.
     
  25. erg923

    erg923 Psychologist-VA

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    I am a psychologist in primary care. And this is a silly statement. What makes you think this, other than maybe one of your professors said this once?

    While I do do 30 minutes sessions with EBTs, and I have a session limit, I do think that there needs to be some common sense used in this service model, however. If we are to be honest, reducing most MH services/problems to a managed care model (the way you endorsed and described) lacks common clinical sense. And your endorsed notion of "brief, evidenced based services in 15-30 minutes sessions, every 4-6 weeks, just like a primary care physician" shows me that you lack "common clinical sense." A patient that would benefit substantially from the sparse service model you described would probably improve without any psychological intervention at all (so says the the epi lit), so I have to wonder who is saving money and resources here? Hence, I prefer psychologists in primary care, not "Doctors of Behavioral Health" who lack broad/broader clinical and scientific training.
     
    Last edited: 08.24.15
  26. Lurking Oracle

    Lurking Oracle

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    I do not see how this differs at all from what Health Psychologists (and Rehabilitation Psychologists, and, in some settings, Clinical Neuropsychologists) have been doing for 20+ years.
     
  27. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus

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    huh? Psychologists were some of the first to push for an integrated care model and do the research to show that multi-discplinary teams are more effective.

    Again, you must not be familiar with psychology, as Primary Care continues to be an area of growth for psychologists, as we are the best trained to work in that setting and apply time-limited interventions and/or triage an acute crisis.

    Citation?

    Ph.D. = Teach/Research and Psy.D. = Clinical is flat out not accurate.

    So…do you happen to work for the DBH program?
     
    Last edited: 08.24.15
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  28. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus

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    The DBH appears to offer:
    1. Far less rigorous training.
    2. Minimal research training, which appeals to the "research is icky" crowd.
    3. A great way to rack of debt.
    4. A solution for a problem that didn't exist prior to someone needing to market a new degree program.

    And so on.
     
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  29. Lurking Oracle

    Lurking Oracle

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    Agreed! What I meant by my post is that psychologists have already been doing this for well over two decades. I fully agree that the DBH is a watered down "solution" to a "problem" that does not even exist.
     
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  30. bmedclinic

    bmedclinic

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    I'm a psychologists (PhD) that got training in primary care and a variety of other health psych settings while I was in graduate school. Honestly, Adam H's statements make it sound like he doesn't know jack about health psych or integrated primary care, like at all. At the very least.

    Also, I'm phd that's conducted research in the area of integrated primary care. Thought I'd throw that out there as the above statements from Adam make it seem like that's impossible when in fact, it's quite possible- and that's the research (not mine, but others) that drives the field.
     
  31. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Neuropsychologist

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    Agree with others, Adam can play the "everyone is just bitter" card, but its clear that there is a huge misunderstanding of the work that psychologists do in institutional settings. But, when you;re selling something, I guess it pays to be a little fast and loose with the facts.
     
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  32. smalltownpsych

    smalltownpsych

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    The industry shills that post this crap on here just make we so freakin angry. Two things that struck a nerve were how he used quotes around "psychologists" to cast subtle aspersions on our credentials and then responds to criticism of this program by attacking us as bitter, angry, and fearful. Damn right I am angry when someone is profiting off the student loan gravy train and students' ignorance of the field. How do they sleep at night? Not quite bitter yet, but if I see a few more posts like that I might end up that way!
     
    Last edited: 08.25.15 at 7:09 AM
  33. MamaPhD

    MamaPhD Psychologist, Academic Medical Center

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    You are either out of touch or deceiving yourself. I mean, maybe this applies to a small percentage of psychologists who don't read or who haven't stayed in any way connected with the field in the past 10-15 years and are about to age out anyway. Even most recent APA presidents have advocated for integrated care models. That cat's long been out of the bag. For heaven's sake, the Collaborative Family Healthcare Association has been holding national conferences for nearly 20 years now and psychologists have always been involved.

    That all sounds great, but how do you demonstrate those competencies in health economics and health services? Are your graduates publishing in policy journals like Health Affairs and HSR? Getting AHRQ and PCORI grants to study models of care? Being cited in policy? Getting Director of Behavioral Health-type jobs for major payers and healthcare organizations? At this point, even an educated layperson who read the NY Times or WSJ often enough can have a meaningful conversation about healthcare reform. You can throw around buzz phrases like "learning models of health care" all you want, but unless your faculty and graduates are really moving the needle on integrated care implementation (not just talking about it), it's hard to see what the point of all this is.

    So you just teach health econ for fun, not with the intent of putting it to any meaningful use? And since we're on the subject of reimbursement, what percentage of major payers reimburse your graduates' services at a level comparable to other doctoral providers?

    Maybe in the places where your graduates find work. Not in any health system I've ever been a part of.

    Most of the faculty are published? I should hope so. Since Mayo Clinic requires its own psychologist faculty members to be board certified by ABPP, I am curious what kind of "support" the institution is lending to the DBH program.
     
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  34. engmedpt

    engmedpt

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    This sounds like complete and absolute horses/%t

    I know PsyDs........drowning in debt but halfway paid down loans......at least they have jobs.
     
  35. cara susanna

    cara susanna

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    Most of the faculty are published? That changes everything!
     
  36. Lurking Oracle

    Lurking Oracle

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    Well, you know.... "published" could technically mean published on a blog, or through other social media, or maybe in the homeowners association newsletter, and so on. No claim was made about peer-reviewed publications based on original data and evidence-based practice ;)
     
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  37. futureapppsy2

    futureapppsy2 Ed Psych PhD student Moderator Gold Donor

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    It's kind of like when FSPS students say that they have to run a study for their dissertation and everything! Wow!
     
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  38. bmedclinic

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    I used the excel for the datas!
     
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  39. Adam80

    Adam80

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    What I've seen in traditional models of delivering psychological services are countless sessions rendered for countless months or even years, with very little progress if any, especially within the federally insured populations. As a citizen, it is not what I want my tax dollars to go towards; expensive and time consuming therapy with little accountability but somehow this is acceptable because it fits a well known model of care provided by therapists at all degree levels.

    There are countless studies showing the effectiveness of integrated care as you mentioned. Once a provider divorces the idea that a therapist in this setting is only concerned about treating a psychological disorder directly with the patient will they begin to understand the importance of placing a qualified counselor in this setting. A typical session may only be an assessment leading to a diagnosis that leads to alternative medication that is more efficacious. For example, diagnosing a bipolar depressive episode versus uni-polar depression. Or assessing a patient and realizing they have a mental illness. The pharmacology makes a difference and it's a diagnostic nuance the PCP may not be familiar with or have time to investigate and assess. These interventions and follow up do not take a great deal of time.

    Other examples include medication and treatment adherence (following Dr.'s orders). Again, research shows that patient's have higher rates of adherence when they are encouraged to express their feelings, anxieties about their illness, and feel their care team is responsive to their needs (Patient-centered care vs. Physician-centered care). Some PCP's are great at this, some lack either the skill or time. There are countless examples of low-intensity interventions, that indeed are brief and spaced weeks apart that make a significant difference in the health of the patient. The PCP's that I work with, which there are 7, very much appreciate handing off a patient to a colleague who has time for these patient issues.

    As far as money is concerned, I don't have to worry about student loans and debt. Guess I'm lucky. Nor do I have to worry about pointless research. If healthcare administration and management is a future ambition, I'm guessing health care economics, and healthcare policy may be smart to learn about.

    Thought this would be a cool place to collaborate with other professions, discussing changes in the field that affect us all. But really all it is is an online forum. It is exactly like reading the comments by readers left under online news article, which I certainly do find entertaining.
     
  40. Adam80

    Adam80

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    There are not enough psychologists to fill positions in primary care, nor interest, nor are there enough Social Workers, other's will need to provide services. And indeed psychologist are promoting and researching the subject along with other disciplines too.

    According to the Occupational Outlook Handbook, an entry level nurse (RN), with an associates degree makes on average $65,470/year. The average Psychologist with a PHD is $69,280/year. That means that the 20 year old out of community college who can't buy beer can potentially earn nearly as much as a PHD.

    The teaching/research PHD vs. PsyD, was anecdotal from a conversation with a psychology professor years back.
     
  41. engmedpt

    engmedpt

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    ...
     
    Last edited: 08.31.15 at 3:24 AM
  42. Adam80

    Adam80

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    I guess you'd have to remind yourself of what stimulates behavior change? Is it the intervention that only a scientist/practitioner can master, or the relationship between the patient and provider? Does an on-staff mental health provider in primary care succeed when providing an intervention to a suicidal patient that keeps the patient from needing inpatient care at $5,000 per day for the next 7 days? And instead is provided brief counseling until longer term care is arranged. Does a mental health provider succeed when they can help a newly diagnosed diabetic reduce their anxiety for needles so they can administer their insulin instead heading to the emergency room because of high blood sugar at a cost of $2,000. Does the program succeed if a severely mentally ill patient is referred to and ensured continuity of care to specialty medicine and a therapist for treatment instead of sending them away to follow up on their own? What about a mental health assessment in an exam room that leads to a diagnosis of a substance abuse disorder that the patient was unwilling to discuss with their PCP? Would the PCP care for that information? Or the PCP who just doesn't understand the patient's resistance to medication compliance, could a psychotherapist be useful here? These are all skills anybody with a license to practice psychotherapy should be able to garner are they not? This modality of treatment does not replace longer term counseling and therapy for those that need it, nor does it take a scientist to get good at it. My lack of "common clinical sense" tells me that those that need more intensive treatment shall get it, and I may be influential in destigmatizing mental illness and treatment so the patient actually accepts it. My lack of "clinical common sense" also guides treatment solutions of somatizers, and malingerers which physicians seem to really like for some reason? Your post describes someone that does not understand behavioral health, and is focusing on the treatment of chronic mental illness, in which case you are correct, that brief amount of treatment time is inappropriate, a fact that I thought readers with "clinical common sense" would understand and would not need explaining.

    The field of psychology, specifically clinical doctorates is getting hammered by fierce competition from masters level providers (psychology, social work, counselors, LMFT, Nurse Practitioners, etc.) competing to deliver services with their own licenses. Tricare and Medicare are expanding to add LPC's/LMHC, and LMFT to provide clinical mental health services which was reserved primarily by psychologists and social workers, which is in response to the increasing need. Good clinical judgment and therapy can indeed be provided by a master's level license, and is by no means attained only by psychologists.

    BTW, the vast majority of mental health providers in primary care and other health care locations will be filled by master's level clinicians under their own licenses, and not by PHD's and DBH's.
     
  43. erg923

    erg923 Psychologist-VA

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    Adam, first, a lack of common clinical sense isnt going to help you do any of these things.

    Second, your last senstence kinda makes my point, right? "Good clinical judgment and therapy can indeed be provided by a master's level license, and is by no means attained only by psychologists." Agreed. So why the **** are you advocating people pay out the ass for a doctoral degree that is not needed and has no market demand.

    Third, I would argue one needs to understand clinical psychological science and general mental health before they can understand "behavioral health"...whatever it is that that silly term actually means.

    This is just poor practice (im sure we would all agree) and is compeley erronous to your advocation of this degree program.

    I dont think anyone has disputed much of this, but again this does not require reinventing the wheel, right?
    This is concerning. I am at a loss how one can value evidence base practice when they are apathetic about the research and have no idea how to seperate the good research from the bad on their own accord.
     
    Last edited: 08.31.15 at 7:16 AM
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  44. smalltownpsych

    smalltownpsych

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    So this is your (supposed) first post and you criticize the entire forum? Hate to break it to you but most of the posters on here are real students and professionals in the field trying to help each other make good decisions about their careers.
     
  45. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus

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    Why are you fighting a straw man?

    This thread is about a program that is trying to invent a demand to support a degree that they created, not about trying to help patients.
     
  46. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus

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    If you are going to assert "facts", I'd like to see where you are getting your information. I believe Div 38 represents psychologists working in Primary Care, and they have put other a plethora of research/reports on the field, training standards, and how to best provide care in an integrated model. I think their work is the antithesis of what you are trying to assert.

    Citation?
     
    Last edited: 08.31.15 at 10:35 AM
  47. smalltownpsych

    smalltownpsych

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    I would respond to how ridiculous the need for this degree, but I have to go meet with the pain management committee that is comprised of my buddy the ortho surgeon, the old school IM guy, the kooky addiction/OB gyn doc, our new pain management specialist NP, and myself as the representative doctor from the behavioral health department. By the way, if I had obtained a doctorate in behavioral health instead of clinical psychology, I wouldn't even be working here.
     
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  48. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus

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    Addictions and OBGYN…..there is a George Carlin joke in there somewhere.
     
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  49. cara susanna

    cara susanna

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    I did an integrated primary care/mental health rotation on internship, and seeing a patient as infrequently as you described earlier is not how it was done there. But that doesn't mean that we saw patients every week for years and years.
     
  50. smalltownpsych

    smalltownpsych

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    We don't see patients for years and years anymore? What am I going to do with my cadre of dependent patients? I guess I'll have to try treating them for a few weeks or a few months or maybe even a year depending on how severe their presenting issues are and what they are willing to work on. Wait! Hold the phone! I think already do that as do most of the psychologists I know. I only have a couple of patients that would probably qualify as dependent on me and it is because they have borderline intellectual functioning with a limited support network and they tend to benefit from stopping by once a month.

    This revolutionary new approach that this school is promoting is only appears revolutionary when you compare it to a straw man. You have to stop looking behind the curtain. ;)
     

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