New Doctor of Behavioral Health Degree

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WisNeuro said:
Only if you also do a 2 year postdoc in paraneuropsychology. Through the Venkman Institute.
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I think that Venkman had degrees in psychology AND parapsychology. Imagine THAT! A Quack psychologist! Oh, the horror!.
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Props to the anti propoganda. Whenever the education bubble blows, people will rely on the folks who know what they are doing.

Oh wait...they already do that now.
 
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I'm sure it's on the agenda. Pretty soon everyone will have it though. Trained monkeys could do a better job prescribing than some of the cocktails I see. I say we just make everything legal and throw it in the pharmacy as OTC.
 
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WisNeuro said:
I'm sure it's on the agenda. Pretty soon everyone will have it though. Trained monkeys could do a better job prescribing than some of the cocktails I see. I say we just make everything legal and throw it in the pharmacy as OTC.
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I really wish I could remember that quote from some famous psychologist/psychiatrist about the tragedy of medicine. Something about medical training teaching smart people to not think.
 
I love the logic that APA has a "Division" for everything. Reminds me of the Portlandia sketch titled "We Can Pickle That!". They can do it all.... sure they can. The reason this degree exist, according to THEM, is that training in integrated care does not much occur formally in masters level mental health training and that integrated care is becoming much more useful and recognized. This is a new practice model for behavioral healthcare and probably is appropriate to be provided at a doctoral level. BUT it is not a clinical training program, does not promote itself as such, and is NOT competitive to clinical psychology affectionados or their interests. Such training in integrated care is very valuable to a primary care clinic, ER or other medical system. It is valuable enough to offer positions with higher pay to consult, manage and practice in that setting with those skills. But again, it is NOT practicing psychology or anything like it. Behavioral health specialists need a broad background with training in many forms and masters level practitioners are ideal for this type of professional development. In fact, it appears to be their target. Adam 80 above is so very much on point, the maters level practitioner can and do practice with their existing skill sets and has significantly overshadowed the traditional professions of psychology and social work in mental health delivery and practice. But when those very practitioners are embedded in significant numbers in primary care and other forms of medical health settings, external referrals will be substantially reduced as the clinics begin to do their own provision of therapies and behavioral healthcare within their own systems - and profiting from the revenues. This DBH degree is more of a way to outpace other masters level practitioners by having a new skills set that would be useful as a clinic manager or clinical supervisor. It is a much better economic model of care than making referrals to private providers and medical systems will need supervisors who can run the integrated care models with masters level providers well and with accountability. The DBH targets those skills - not psychology or clinical work. The shift to integrated care will not affect - or even be noticed by systems like the VA or other truncated organizations, but will for most of the private and non-profit hospitals and clinics - as well as private practice clinics and specialties - it will be a big opportunity and change with a big payoff - and all those pricey private practices of ALL the mental health "professions" will dry up like a bone in the desert. Getting in a health home or network is the wave of the future. Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (private practice) to us all!
 
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Much cheaper, and more recognized ways to obtain the skills necessary to consult in integrated and primary care. Still haven't seen anything to convince me that this is anything but a way to bilk money out of people who don't know any better.
 
Samarian said:
. BUT it is not a clinical training program, does not promote itself as such, and is NOT competitive to clinical psychology affectionados or their interests. Such training in integrated care is very valuable to a primary care clinic, ER or other medical system. .... But again, it is NOT practicing psychology or anything like it. t
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"But again, It is not Practicing psychology or anything like that"

The why the hell are you promoting this fake degree in a doctoral psychology board? Just picked it out at random and then argued with the psychologists? Shenanigans. You're trying to slip this in and call it something else.

"But it is not a clinical training program... Such training..."

So is this degree training or not? Cause saying it is not training and then two sentences later Calling it training is just ridiculous.

Don't try to play semantics. You're not even good at it.
 
PSYDR said:
"But again, It is not Practicing psychology or anything like that"

The why the hell are you promoting this fake degree in a doctoral psychology board? Just picked it out at random and then argued with the psychologists? Shenanigans. You're trying to slip this in and call it something else.

"But it is not a clinical training program... Such training..."

So is this degree training or not? Cause saying it is not training and then two sentences later Calling it training is just ridiculous.

Don't try to play semantics. You're not even good at it.
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I guess you have trouble with reading. I said it was not a CLINICAL training program. It IS a doctoral TRAINING program in the field of behavioral health - which has elements of public health, economics, statistics, population health, medical management and other specialized behavioral health components. The reason I am here is that it was posted as "The New Doctor of Behavioral Health Degree". Perhaps the owners of this blog should have a special form for doctoral students in behavioral health and not in the psychology forum. Fully agree with that! And by the way, I not promoting anything other than fair play and honesty. Not sure what sends you off more, the "doctoral", the "Behavioral", or "health"? Real mystery..... well maybe not so much.
 
WisNeuro said:
Much cheaper, and more recognized ways to obtain the skills necessary to consult in integrated and primary care. Still haven't seen anything to convince me that this is anything but a way to bilk money out of people who don't know any better.
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Why don't you enlighten us to what those are? Citations?
 
The myriad of internships and postdocs in PCMHI. If you want, you can file a FOIA request and see how many of those positions get hired on as full-time staff. It's amazing, they'll actually pay you to get this training, rather than charging you 6 figures!
 
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Samarian said:
It IS a doctoral TRAINING program in the field of behavioral health - which has elements of public health, economics, statistics, population health, medical management and other specialized behavioral health components.
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"Behavioral health" is made up word/term started by the managed care industry in the 80s/90s.
 
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Samarian said:
Why don't you enlighten us to what those are? Citations?
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Doctoral programs in clinical/counseling psychology. Practicum training in evidence-based assessment and intervetion within primary care. Post-doc programs in the same, if needed.
 
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...and if you call me Francis, I'll kill ya.
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I'm going to feed the troll. I apologize in advance!

DBH unfortunately contributes to the misperception of behavioral health. A person who is a licensed master's level therapist has no business calling themselves a doctor within a medical setting even if they hold a doctorate in BH, education, English, etc.
If you are not licensed at that level, you cannot consider yourself a doctor. Some places even restrict licensed psychologists from using Doctor as it confuses patients with who are MDs. I am currently a master's level therapist working on my clinical psychology degree. Once I obtain my doctorate and subsequent licensure, I will feel comfortable calling myself a Doctor. Until then, I am either a Practicum student, intern, post-doc/fellow, or licensed therapist.

Just wanted to put in my two cents. This thread is very entertaining, however the issues do come up everyday within my workplaces, that I felt like I had to address it.


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SpacePsych said:
I'm going to feed the troll. I apologize in advance!

DBH unfortunately contributes to the misperception of behavioral health. A person who is a licensed master's level therapist has no business calling themselves a doctor within a medical setting even if they hold a doctorate in BH, education, English, etc.
If you are not licensed at that level, you cannot consider yourself a doctor. Some places even restrict licensed psychologists from using Doctor as it confuses patients with who are MDs. I am currently a master's level therapist working on my clinical psychology degree. Once I obtain my doctorate and subsequent licensure, I will feel comfortable calling myself a Doctor. Until then, I am either a Practicum student, intern, post-doc/fellow, or licensed therapist.

Just wanted to put in my two cents. This thread is very entertaining, however the issues do come up everyday within my workplaces, that I felt like I had to address it.


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Hmmm.....So you're saying that a lcsw with a phd in say social work can't be called dr? interesting. In my humble opinion if you have a doctorate have a party calling yourself doctor. Most people do in understand that dr. doesn't need to mean physician..and for those who don't it can be cleared up in a second.
 
ikibah said:
Most people do in understand that dr. doesn't need to mean physician..and for those who don't it can be cleared up in a second.
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1. Do they? Is this based on some kind of published research, or perhaps you are just assuming based on your experience/impression?

2. Whose (emotional) need are you fulfilling if you have quickly go back and clarify/correct?
 
erg923 said:
1. Do they? Is this based on some kind of published research, or perhaps you are just assuming based on your experience/impression?

2. Whose need are you fulfilling if you have quickly go back and clarify/correct?
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1. That was my assumption based off of my experience. Is there published research saying the other way?
2. I'm not talking about the "whys" of why somebody would want to do this...I mean I'm sure some people feel like they've worked on their PhD's and feel like they should be allowed to state as much...I'm sure others get a kick out of being called "doctor". I'm just saying IN MY OPINION, I don't think that when a social worker with a PhD puts their PhD after their name that they have to worry that people will think they are a physician....my point was even if they DID it would be an easy fix.
 
A person's sense of what the should or "deserve" to be called, is irrelevant.. This is a question of ethics in the context of practice, and in some jurisdictions, a legal question, right?

ikibah said:
my point was even if they DID it would be an easy fix.
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to you...

to your patient, it could mean...?
 
erg923 said:
A person's sense of what the should or "deserve" to be called, is irrelevant.. This is a question of ethics in the context of practice, and in some jurisdictions, a legal question, right?

.
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Yes. agreed. I wasn't talking about why somebody would want to do it, that's what I just said in #2. (see above). You brought that up.
 
WisNeuro said:
Guys. Guys. I think we all need to take some perspective and get back to the important issue here. The issue of this degree being a worthless waste of 6 figures.
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haha agreed. I was just going off spacepsyh's comment about masters level clinicians with doctorates in general. I think we can all agree this degree is doodoo
 
I found the quote. It's from Carl Jung.

"The study of medicine consists on the one hand in storing up in the mind an enormous number of facts, which are simply memorized without any real knowledge of their foundations, and on the other hand in learning practical skills, which have to be acquired on the principle, "Don't think, act!". Thus it is that, of all the professionals, the medical man has the least opportunity of developing the function of thinking".
 
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fairly simple, this is................................degree creep. Lol.
 
Maybe the degree would be more beneficial to BCBAs who have no interest in clinical psychology?
TIA!
 
maricar said:
Maybe the degree would be more beneficial to BCBAs who have no interest in clinical psychology?
TIA!
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Not sure why A BCBA would do this. It likely wouldn't qualify them for the BCBA-D (my clinical Ph.D would no longer count- I got credentialed under older standards). Even if it did, the BCBA-D doesn't really offer more clinical opportunities, as the vast majority of BCBA services are billed at the masters level credential. You may get a slightly higher salary, but the cost of the this doctorate might cancel that out. If you want to teach/research ABA at the doctoral level, it's most prudent to do a PhD in an ABA doctoral program.
 
Thank you for your reply ClinicalABA. I am a BCBA but feel very limited in what I can do as I work for a state facility and unfortunately, the surrounding area is saturated with BCBAs making working in another capacity/moonlighting unlikely. As a result, I'm exploring other options. I suppose getting my LPC is still an option...
 
maricar said:
Thank you for your reply ClinicalABA. I am a BCBA but feel very limited in what I can do as I work for a state facility and unfortunately, the surrounding area is saturated with BCBAs making working in another capacity/moonlighting unlikely. As a result, I'm exploring other options. I suppose getting my LPC is still an option...
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Going for your LPC would probably make much more sense than getting a doctor in behavioral health degree. The first means you are licensed and can work as a therapist in a variety of capacities and the second is a degree designed to make money for the school that provides little to no benefit to the student.
 
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smalltownpsych said:
Going for your LPC would probably make much more sense than getting a doctor in behavioral health degree. The first means you are licensed and can work as a therapist in a variety of capacities and the second is a degree designed to make money for the school that provides little to no benefit to the student.
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100% agree.
 
maricar said:
Thank you for your reply ClinicalABA. I am a BCBA but feel very limited in what I can do as I work for a state facility and unfortunately, the surrounding area is saturated with BCBAs making working in another capacity/moonlighting unlikely. As a result, I'm exploring other options. I suppose getting my LPC is still an option...
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I don't know- in my area the BCBA is much more marketable than the LPC (LMHC here). BCBA salaries run 20-50% higher. This is in Mass., where there is the highest per capita ammount of BCBAs in the country, so it's not a supply side thing. There are also a lot of LMHCs, as well. I taught in both LMHC and ABA graduate programs at the same state university, and ABA students did much better after graduation.
 
This was an entertaining thread. I'm glad everyone is on board that this is a worthless degree (with the exception of several "people" who likely work or go to that program). I cannot see any benefit of going to that program that could not have been obtained otherwise from a clinical degree. The fact that they are stating it is novel is funny when many programs have been giving this training for decades.
 
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