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New G.I. Bill and HSCP

Discussion in 'Military Dentistry' started by Lodo, 08.01.08.


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  1. Lodo

    Lodo

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    I swore in for a Navy HSCP scholarship just today and begin dental school this fall. In HSCP, they pay you E-6/E-7 salary and you pay for dental school out of pocket. In going over some of the paperwork a recruiter told me that the new G.I. Bill (going into affect Aug 2009) could cover my school costs in addition to the HSCP salary that I will be recieving. He said that he doesn't know all the details yet, but that is how it appears to be. He said be sure to look into it before Aug 2009 so that I can benefit if possible.

    Does anyone have any further insight on this? I have no prior service, so would this still really apply to me? I am not familiar with the terms of the G.I. Bill whatsoever so any info or recommendations would help. Thanks!
  2. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    I'm doing HSCP too, and I asked this question multiple times earlier in the year. Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure you can't you the GI BILL in conjunction with the HSCP. That'd be sweet if you could though.
  3. KDBuff

    KDBuff Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure the new GI Bill can only be used to cover undergrad tuition and expenses. If you read the info, I believe it states something to the extent of those persuing graduate degrees still using the old GI Bill because they aren't eligible. In addition, you can't use the new GI Bill until after you have already served, so you wouldn't be able to use it for school in that instance either. In addition, not sure about HSCP, but for HPSP your payback time does not count toward acruing benefits under the new plan. You would have to finish your committment, then the years following would grant you benefits
  4. KDBuff

    KDBuff Senior Member

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  5. DDS Nuke

    DDS Nuke

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    Sorry, but I had to quote you :laugh:

    At the very least someone in my position (multiple years active duty and qualified under the "old" GI bill Chap. 30) can use the GI Bill in conjunction with HSCP. However, I am pretty sure Tuition Assistance (TA) is not allowed when in the HSCP. Someone should quote me on that :rolleyes:
  6. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    Forgive my ingnorance, what exactly does this mean for someone like me just starting the HSCP with the Navy? Is their any benefit for me there at all?
  7. DDS Nuke

    DDS Nuke

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    I'm too lazy to pull out my HSCP paperwork but I'm pretty sure you sign a GI Bill form when you sign up that says something (Now YOU don't quote me:) to the tune of you're eligible to start using your benefits after 24 months (way over $1000/month)...start doing the math on that and you'll see it gets VERY beneficial to at least start asking the right people on this matter (your recruiter probably won't know the real answer). If no one else pipes in here to say, "yeah, I was a 4 yr HSCP student with no prior active duty experience and I started using my benefits in X amount of months" then I would highly recommend you call the VA about your education benefits sooner rather than later...afterall, you're "active duty" now :cool:
  8. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    I hope you're right...I'll look into it.
  9. Electronuclear

    Electronuclear

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    I've been looking into this for a while too. You will be able to use the new GI bill but since you are on "active duty" as an E6/E7 you will have limited availability to the GI bill. I still have some further research, but currently active duty members are eligible for 36 months of the GI bill. Keep in mind that that is 36 months continous and the new GI bill for 2009 will cover all tuition cost for any in state school. Active duty members will not be able to get the allowance for housing under the new GI bill or the $1,000 per year for books.
  10. DDS Nuke

    DDS Nuke

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    Two things:

    "limited availability" is pretty vague...as is the case with most dental schools out there besides the super cheap texas ones, the tuition is more than enough to max out the GI Bill for active duty so it comes to $1321/month ($1471/month if the $600 buy up is used)

    "cover the cost for any in state school" is misleading...it's any UNDERGRADUATE in state school which we are not attending again ;)
  11. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    Where did you get your numbers from? Also, since the post 9/11 GI Bill doesn't take affect until summer of 2009, do we have to wait until then to apply for it and if so will they retropay the tuition for the start up of that current semester that you're in?

    Also another question since you get 60% of the cost of tuition after 12 months and before 18 months would you still get the full maxed out amount since d-school tuition is astronomically high the the max out point for the GI Bill falls short of the cost of attendance?

    Basically I am asking if in that first semester you could get $1321 from July 2009 - December of 2009, or if it's 60% of $1321, equaling $792.6?

    Also, what is the standard procedure to doing the 'buy-up' of $600? Obviously if we're able to take part of the GI Bill while currently enrolled in d-school it's a no-brainer to get that extra $150 dollars every month.

    Thanks
  12. DDS Nuke

    DDS Nuke

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    Those numbers are from my award letters for the CHAPTER 30 GI BILL (ie. the "old" one that the new Post 9/11 one replaces)...it should be noted that these numbers are a result of the recent 20% increase that just came through. I have no clue how the old/new one works in terms of percentages-of-full-benefits based on time in service.

    All HSCP'ers out there, first call the VA to verify your eligibility and the specifics on when you can start using the benefits. Then, to get the $600 buy up started, look for DD Form 2558 which is the authorization to start, stop, or change an allotment. Again, this is for the current Chap. 30 GI Bill that requires the $1200 initial buy-in (so, doing the math, an $1800 investment is necessary to get $1471/month at an "expensive" school in order to max it out). The 9/11 bill doesn't require a buy in at all.
  13. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    Well I called the VA last week and I'm about 90% sure we'll be able to use the post 9/11 GI Bill starting next year in conjunction with the HSCP. The one thing she kept saying is it's a work in progress, but I explained to her my situation and she was very optimistic that I could use the HSCP in my situation at the %'s of the state's lowest tuition for my type of education. The breakdown would look like this:

    Aug 2009 - 1st sem, sophomore year --- 60% tuition and fees paid
    Jan 2010 - 2nd sem, sophomore year --- 70% tuition and fees paid
    Aug 2010 - 1st sem, junior year --- 80% tuition and fees paid
    Jan 2011 - 2nd sem, junior year --- 90% tuition and fees paid
    Aug 2011 - 1st sem, senior year --- 100% tuition and fees paid
    Jan 2012 - 2nd sem, senior year --- 100% tuition and fees paid

    This is one sweet deal using the post 9/11 GI Bill in conjuntion with the HSCP.

    She said that my last year the GI BILL would cover ALL my tution and fees for my senior year after I had 3 full year of 'active duty' service time.
  14. Lodo

    Lodo

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    So the New GI Bill would cover the % tuition coverage for the state's lowest tuition "dental school" and not just the amount for "undergraduate"? There is a big difference in the cost of dental school and ugrad, so that would make a considerable difference in how much the New GI Bill would give us. Would you clarify for me? Thanks!
  15. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    Lowest cost of dental education in your state is the percentage they go off of is how it was explained to me over the phone from the VA.
  16. Lodo

    Lodo

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    Wow! That's huge, if so!
  17. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    Feel free to call the VA about it and get your take on it.
  18. Lodo

    Lodo

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    I called and they didn't offer me much other than that if I have post-9/10 active duty that I should be able to use it in some way. The guy told me that the details of the some thousand scenarios are currently being worked out and any updates will first become available at http://www.gibill.va.gov/. This is from where KDBuff posted the facts sheet in this thread. So as we've all been saying, it appears that no one knows anything conclusive yet. While I think we will get funds as dental school students, I am skeptical that the amount we get will exceed "undergradute" tuition (and not dental school tuition)...just b/c of how it is stated in this facts sheet. Hopefully I'm wrong or they re-word that though. That would be a pretty sweet deal to get that much more cost coverage.
  19. voryue

    voryue

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  20. soswank

    soswank

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    I've been following this thread for a while now. I've been contemplating doing Army National Guard, it's active duty like the Navy HSCP. Can anyone clarify if the guard qualifies for the new GI bill?
  21. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    Call the VA. I haven't seen any National guard people on these boards so far.
  22. ClickityClack

    ClickityClack

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    Hi kids!

    Lucky, lucky, lucky. Two tours in Iraq, and the new GI bill gets passed just as I'm about to use up my Chapter 30 benefits. Way to go, Congress.
  23. makushin

    makushin Member

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    This needs a definative answer. I have to choose between HPSP and HSCP very quickly, and this would put HSCP over the top. :confused:
  24. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    If it's THAT close, I'd go with HSCP. That's what I'm doing. I just talked with an Army National Guard recruiter who has a similar program as the HSCP(active duty while in school) and they advertised the Montgomery GI Bill(post 9/11 after August 1st 2009). as one of the benefits. So between that and having actually called the VA and talked to them about it, if you're "Active Duty" I don't see how they could deny you your GI Bill benefits since they're there for all Active Duty personnel, which you would be under the HSCP.
  25. sunliners

    sunliners

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    HSCP student here. I had 5 yrs AD service prior to starting school, but I never contributed to the GI bill when I was in the service. I applied for GI bill benefits recently and they haven't said "No" yet, but they are still processing my application. This week they wanted to see the award letter from my school. From what I read: if I want "old GI Bill" benefits now then I need to pony up $1800 now, and if I don't want to do that, then I have to wait until AUG 09 to start receiving benefits. The downside would be that I would probably lose 1 or 2 months of benefits as I am c/o 2012.

    Regarding the talk about "paying full tuition in yr 4" I am having a hard time following all of this talk about state schools and am not sure what the implications are in my situation...as I go to a private school. From reading the VA webpage, I thought I was only eligible to receive $1321/month and didn't realize they would pay "full tuition". I'm pretty sure they won't pay my full tuition, but please let me know if I am wrong.

    Curious to know what you guys think I should do in my situation though. Should I pony up $1800 and start receiving benefits in January 09 or should I wait until August and use 34-35 months of benefits under the new plan?

    Thanks.
  26. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    I thought the benefits were only for 36 months, therefore wait for the post 9-11 GI Bill since you're class of 2012. Use it for your final 3 years of Dental School.
  27. Lodo

    Lodo

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    Anyone have any updates on this as of lately? Know if we HSCPers could actually use the New GI Bill in addition to our salary beginning this upcoming August?
  28. krmower

    krmower

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    I believe the latest GI Bill legislation that passed Congress this last year didn't go into effect until Oct 09. Not sure how the new or the old affect dental school.
  29. Lodo

    Lodo

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    From the resouce I'm looking at, it looks like it'll go into effect this upcoming August 09...but, yes, I'm just not sure what the application (if any) to dental school could be. Anyone hear of any new insight? Thanks!
  30. sunliners

    sunliners

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    You can see my previous post on this topic above. My application for GI Bill benefits was recently denied by the VA. The reason was because I received ROTC scholarship funds for my undergraduate study. This was interesting because the VA webpage indicates "if you serve in OEF or OIF, you are eligible for the GI Bill, even if you received funds through ROTC".

    When I spoke to the VA they said this was a true statement, but if you received more than $12,000 in total assistance throughout ROTC (approximately) then you are not eleigible for GI Bill funds. The reason why I say this is interesting is because I think the minority of students can get a 4 yr education for less than $12,000, not that I know how much all universities cost these days. But basically, it seems the majority of people who received ROTC scholarships will not be eligible for the new GI Bill, despite the information listed on the VA webpage.

    Sad to say, but it sounds all too familiar of government programs that advertise to many yet qualify few. I hope it can still work out for others here, and if someone finds I am wrong, I will be happy to hear of it.

    If you are HSCP and didn't previously receive funds for school, there is still hope. Send an application for the GI Bill to the VA and see what happens.
  31. KDBuff

    KDBuff Senior Member

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    The idea that you say that this sounds all to familiar as a govt program is ridiculous. You are receiving a substantial amount of money towards your dental education, and most of those in this thread have never served a day in the military. The GI Bill is designed to help those who served, not to be taken advantage of by people who have never done jack for the military. The idea that people here think they should be receiving this money pisses me off. Thanks for your time, rant over.
  32. KOM

    KOM Senior Member

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    I completely agree, but money is money and people want to cash in on every dime...deserving or not.
  33. KDBuff

    KDBuff Senior Member

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    Yes, "technically" they are active duty, and that's all it is... technically. They are in absolutely no way active duty in actuality. These resources aren't meant to be availble to them... they are trying to find bs loopholes to make a quick buck. Maybe you should look into law school instead of dentistry, there's lots of room for slime ball technicalities there.
  34. jwin74

    jwin74

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    for those who have been through it:

    how long does it take upon being board-approved for HSCP, to being sworn-in, signed up, or whatever you call the day they start paying you?

    what hurdles remain? another physical? more security stuff?

    thanks!
  35. Lodo

    Lodo

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    In theory it's supposed to be able to happen pretty quickly. In my situation, which likely was a little more complicated (but not necessarily) it took months. I would not be suprised about mistakes holding things up. I think that it might have to do with the fact that HSCP isn't that well known so it can get mishandled. Regardless, the HSCP is limited to 48 months, so they will not start paying you ahead of school beginning anyway (though from what I here they used to do that). Also, mine got held up so long that they didn't start paying me until after the date stated on my orders, BUT they backpay you. So the main point is, no matter how quick or long it takes, they'll pay you beginning on the date that your orders state (which is the beginning of your first month of school...assuming that you are beginning the HSCP fresh into school). PM me if you have more specific questions.
  36. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    It took about 6 months for me personally. Although, everything was ready to go on my end after 3-4 months. Those last couple of months were really dragged out.
  37. JaySea

    JaySea

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    You have to have time as an active duty service member to get 'post 9/11 gi bill benefits' Therefore since you don't then you will not qualify. I just ran out of my chp 30 benefits (~$1500 a month) at the end of my third year of dental school (I had 5 years of active duty service as a dental tech) and I thought my last year of dental school wasn;t going to have GI Bill benefits... little did I know that this recent post 9/11 GI Bill was going to turn out to be like winning the lottery. The new GI Bill states that if you run out of Chapter 30 (the original gi bill) then you can still get 1 additional year of post 9/11 gi bill benefits... this was F-ing amazing since I only have 1 year of dental school left anyways and the time I had as an active duty service member gave me 90% of my tuition paid for and IT DOES cover graduate/professional schools. It just has a cap according to your state.

    I got all of my info from here: http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/CH33/Post-911.htm

  38. Tenbusu

    Tenbusu

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    JaySea-What benefits do you receive under the post 9/11 GI Bill? Is it just the BAH, or do you get some form of tuition as well?
  39. krmower

    krmower

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    The tuition paid varies by state. It is based on in-state tuition rates.

    The main benefit in my opinion is the ability to transfer to spouse or kids.
  40. krmower

    krmower

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    The tuition paid varies by state. It is based on in-state tuition rates.

    The main benefit in my opinion is the ability to transfer to spouse or kids.
  41. Tenbusu

    Tenbusu

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    More specifically, I'd like to know about Post 9/11 GI Bill in conjunction with HPSP. The GI Bill pays tuition, a book stipend, and BAH. HPSP pays tuition. The old GI Bill paid the student directly, and the new one pays the school. My question is whether people currently (using post 9/11 GI Bill) receiving both are only getting the BAH portion of their GI Bill, or getting a book and/or tuition payment as well.
  42. krmower

    krmower

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    I don't know that you are going to get an answer since very few people in this column would be eligible for the post 9/11 GI bill, and even fewer would have any experience with your scenario since it went into effect last month and they are still trying to process applicants.

    Typically when the school receives 2 payments - they will cut you a refund check.

    Again, that is my guess since I have not heard of anyone doing both.
  43. ajaxkid

    ajaxkid

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    I'm in a similar situation. I will be eligible for the new GI Bill. I'm currious to see if I will be able to get the new GI Bill in conjunction with the HPSP. Even if its just the housing allowance.
  44. milfamily

    milfamily

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    Yes, I have received payments from both the Post 9/11 GI BILL and the HPSP. I am eligible for the Post 9/11 GI BILL due to previous service on active duty and the HPSP based on the separate application. Yes, I have a certificate of eligibility for the Post 9/11 GI BILL from the VA; and yes, I also have an award certificate. The VA has made the partial BAH payment
    (for August 09) and the books and supplies for the Fall 09 semester. (both directly to me) They even made the tuition and fees payment to the school for the tuition. However, the school decided that since I was already receiving the HPSP (and the student account balance was zero) that they should return the tuition and fees payment made by the VA back to the VA, instead of refunding it to me! I am in the process of fighting this and waiting on an official letter from the VA on the reason why the money wasn't refunded to me. The school's veteran certifying official is going on guidance from the education liason representative from the VA on this issue. In looking at the actual law which is on the United States Code, there are no exclusions between the HPSP and the Post 9/11 GI BILL. They are paid under separate titles. There are exclusions to the Post 9/11 GI BILL (actually 8 exclusions, listed on Title 38, section 21.9690 of the Code of Federal Regulations); and the HPSP, which is paid under Title 10, sections 2120-2127 is NOT listed. The way I read the regulations, a person should be eligible for both programs if the Post 9/11 GIBILL active duty eligibility is not based on active duty time spent repaying another Federal scholarship, such as ROTC and HPSP.

    Has anyone else run into this type of specific situation? Any news from their school or the VA? Thanks.
  45. sunliners

    sunliners

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    Similar but different situation since I am HSCP vice HPSP. I'm not sure how things are going to play out yet though, and am happy to hear advice from anyone.

    As I mentioned in a previous post I had several yeard AD prior to dental school, and I started my dialogue with the VA last year. There was some miscommunitcation on my behalf as I didn't realize the application for the Post 9/11 GI bill wasn't even out yet. So if you see my previous post in this forum, please disregard.

    I have since applied for post 9/11 GI bill and received certificate of eligibility. The school certified my enrollment and the VA contacted me stating they were ready to issue funds to the school, but they wanted a copy of my AD orders to verify I am serving under Title 10. Contacting my recruiter looking for some kind of orders, they don't know what to do because I guess we don't technically have orders on HSCP. They requested I wait until this next week for the fiscal year to turnover since they are pretty busy wrapping up FY09 in their office.

    If anyone has any idea of what I should send to the VA in lieu of AD orders to prove I am Title 10, I would be interested. I asked someone at the VA why they would want me to prove I am AD, since my understanding is you get less money for Post 9/11 GI bill if you are AD because you aren't eligible for the book stipend or the BAH.

    In reply to milfamily, I think it is too bad you are getting the run around. You earned GI bill benefits through your previous service, and you will pay your debt to the government for HPSP money through future service. I think you deserve to choose how to use your benefits to best suit you and your family's needs. If in the end you are told you can't get the money under no uncertian terms, I would be careful not to lose those benfits so you could at least transfer them to someone else in the future, which would be better than nothing. In other words, it will be important to know who is getting refunded how much money. If HPSP gets refunded, they probably won't cut you any slack on your future service and the GI Bill benefits would then be gone.

    Please let us know how it turns out.
  46. milfamily

    milfamily

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    Status:
    Veterinarian
    Sunliner, As far as notifying the VA you are on Title 10 Active Duty orders, well, you have to. Title 10 is the main chapter in the US Code (The LAW) which governs all of the armed forces. Every person on active duty, inactive or active reserves, or any type of military service is on title 10, even ROTC'ers. Having spent about 15 hours this past weeks researching the actual laws, I do not think you will be eligible for the tuition and fees nor the BAH portions of the Post 9/11 GIBILL while you are on any type of active duty, orders in hand or not. HSCP is considered active duty for pay reasons, and as far as I know it is excluded with the other VA education programs and ROTC. Of course, I wasn't really checking the HCSP items, since I am in the HPSP. The only thing I think you would be eligible for is the books and supplies stipend. Yes, I know, it seems unfair completely, but the VA won't pay for most anything with the Post 9/11 GIBILL during the same period a person is on active duty. However, since you are on active duty on August 1,2009, (In order to transfer the Post 9/11 GIBILL to a family member-child or spouse, you have to actually be on active duty on Aug 1 ,2009) you could transfer it to one of them so as to not waste it; or just tell the VA you wish to not receive it for now and hold onto it. You will have lots of time, it expires 15 years after the date you get off active duty, which has not started yet. They (your family) will only get your remaining entitlement in the number of months, not a dollar amount. However, the VA has thrown another wrench in transferring the Post 9/11 GIBILL benefits: this has to be done through your active unit, the VA cannot do it without a letter from them. Hope you are able to find a way to get the full Post 9/11 GIBILL while on the HSCP. Check the Library of Congress, find the actual bill, which is now federal law; to find the information you might need. There are two places in the Federal Register where you can find information, The Unites States Code (its the LAW) and the Code of Federal Regulations (how to implement the LAW). Go to title 38 (the VA title) and then title 10 (the Armed Forces title). Spend some time getting together a case for yourself with specific references from the actual laws, and then appeal the VA's decision. You might be able to find something that allows you to get the full benefits of both programs you deserve. Good luck.
  47. Tenbusu

    Tenbusu

    Joined:
    11.21.08
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    Florida
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    milfamily, I learned more in your two posts than in months of back-and-forth with the VA. I'm not in your situation yet (I'm still applying), but I hope to be next year. Thanks for doing the research and sharing your results. Keep us posted on if you ever receive that tuition money. I don't know your family situation, but I have a wife and two kids support. That tuition money is one of the deciding factors for me of whether I go to USUHS or a civilian school. Your research provides a great starting point for those of us AD that are considering a health career.
  48. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

    Joined:
    03.27.07
    Messages:
    660
    Location:
    One
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    I'm on the HSCP and I received orders to basically 'be a dental student' and 'assist the recruitment office whenever necessary'. Maybe you have it somewhere misplaced?
  49. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

    Joined:
    03.27.07
    Messages:
    660
    Location:
    One
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 5+ Year Member

    +1 Thanks Milfamily and sunliner.
  50. shinedown87

    shinedown87

    Joined:
    11.30.07
    Messages:
    27
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 5+ Year Member

    I am wondering if anyone has any more info about this? How does the backpay work? When do my orders start? In a hypothetical situation, if I started dental school in August, and were accepted into the 4-year HSCP the following February, would they backpay my salary back to when I started school, since it is a 4-year deal?

    Will my orders always be dated back to my first month of dental school as you say, or was this a special case because of your situation?

    Or, would I just miss out on the first 6-7 months of pay because I started late?

    Thanks!

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