Does graduating from newer GS programs (and thus less established) hurt one's chances of getting GS jobs in more desirable locations or hurt one's chances of getting into fellowships? I'm sure it doesn't help, but I was just curious if anyone had idea of the long-term impact. Thanks so much.
New GS programs and jobs afterwards
- Thread starter Colle05
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I think it depends on your long-term goals. New programs usually have less big named surgeons and less academic connections, which may affect your ability to obtain jobs in academics or high-prestige fellowships (Peds, Surg Onc). Most fellowship types, however, are obtainable from any US allopathic program (Breast, Vascular, CT, Transplant, MIS, Trauma/CC, Burn).
"Desirable locations" are different for everybody. I've been dying to get back to Omaha for the last 14 years, but others think of it as a podunk, one-horse town in a forgettable fly-over state.
Newer programs are unproven, so my biggest concern would be the quality of the surgical education. Since there is no end-product available for you to see, you really have no idea what sort of surgeons the new program will create. Operative numbers, board pass rates, lifestyle, curriculum, etc are all unknown.
I think that it will hurt you to some degree for competitive fellowship training, and/or competitive general surgery jobs.
Established programs have the advantage of turning out a known product. For example, if a fellowship has trained graduates of X general surgery residency for years and they have always been high quality people, then they are going to be ranked ahead of you.
There is a similar dynamic for getting hired as an attending. If a lot of the guys already there are products of a handful of training programs then they are likely to give preference to those applicants from their own programs.
I would also add that as patients get savvy and use the internet to google you and compare you to other general surgeons, they will form an opinion based on the perceived strength of your credentials.
That said, there is nothing to stop you from hanging out a shingle and starting a practice wherever you'd like. If you are well-trained, have good results, and are available/affable, then you will succeed wherever you choose to be.
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As a MS4, I cant tell you about jobs or fellowships. But I interviewed at a new program where I would have been first PGY1 with no seniors. It seemed like I would get lots of one on one experience with the attendings and get my pick of cases. Never have to worry about not doing enough cases. But in the end I didnt want the program cause there I would have no seniors to teach me. As a PGY1, I dont need to get cases a PGY5 gets, but I do need a lot of teaching. Also I know people make mistakes in intern yr. I didnt want attendings knowing every little mistake I make.
It sounds like you made the right decision. Let someone else be the guinea pig for the new programs. Once 10 years have passed, and one can review the case numbers and board pass rates, these programs can compete for the higher quality applicants.
I also believe that a great deal of your patient management skills (floor and ICU work) come from your senior resident.
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I have to agree. Especially as an intern, it's wonderful to have an experienced senior resident to run things by. If you're looking for a lot of one on one time with your attendings, there are a number of smaller community programs with a good track record that give you lots of one on one time. You still also have the shield of protection that comes with having senior residents.
Also, its unclear what degree of autonomy you would have as a resident in a new program anyway to make decisions. If its a hospital that didn't have surgical residents before, you may be faced with a lot of staff that don't know what to do with you, who to call about what, etc...
