New Pharm School in Southern California :(

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While browsing for jobs, I stumbled upon faculty jobs for KGI.

http://www.kgi.edu/news-and-events/...unding-dean-of-kgi-school-of-biopharmacy.html

"The philosophy behind the development of the PharmD program at the School of BioPharmacy is to provide the traditional PharmD curriculum in a more efficient manner through the integration of subjects and the extensive use of technology, Webster explained."

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While browsing for jobs, I stumbled upon faculty jobs for KGI.

http://www.kgi.edu/news-and-events/...unding-dean-of-kgi-school-of-biopharmacy.html

"The philosophy behind the development of the PharmD program at the School of BioPharmacy is to provide the traditional PharmD curriculum in a more efficient manner through the integration of subjects and the extensive use of technology, Webster explained."


Are they seriously planning to open a new pharmacy school that is 15 minute drive (4 miles) from another pharmacy school (Western University, Pomona,CA)?
 
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is this Keck in any relation to the USC Keck School of Medicine?

i guess they need more pharmacists in the IE to handle the Sudafed sales and meth production out there :laugh:
 
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This is just one. I know three other pharmacy schools are planning to open in California. It is already hard for new grads to find a job in California and these new schools will only make it even harder.
 
back when i graduated the hard to hire areas were antelope valley, riverside county, ventura county, and san diego county.....they were PAYING you extra to move there

what are the hard to hire areas now? 29 palms? stockton? eureka? haha
 
Getting accepted to a pharmacy school used to mean something. Now it's a joke. Ten years ago, there were just 4 pharmacy schools in California. Now, there are 8 and with 4 more opening up.

New graduates are coming out with 200-300 k in student loans and they are desperate to take whatever that is given to them. Things are going to get a lot worse for us.
 
is this Keck in any relation to the USC Keck School of Medicine?

No. The KGI should be fairly reputable though as they are part of the Claremont College System and yes Western U is only 15 minutes away :lame:

Plus Chapman University is planning on opening another one. :( 30 minutes away

The SoCal market is going to suck in the near future.
 
Rest assured, my friends. Those of us who are already in practice have long anticipated the forthcoming supersaturation of pharmacist job market and the future fierce competition for jobs. Thus, many of us have safe-cushioned our career by grabbing on to multiple pharmacist jobs simultaneously. This not only provide backups in case one job does not last long, but also make the job prospect of graduating student pharmacists abysmal. And for those who are in their retirement ages do their part by holding on to their current jobs so that new desperate grads cannot take open their spots. So, there is no need to worry for us practicing pharmacists.
 
Thus, many of us have safe-cushioned our career by grabbing on to multiple pharmacist jobs simultaneously. This not only provide backups in case one job does not last long, but also make the job prospect of graduating student pharmacists abysmal. So, please do not worry for us practicing pharmacists.

are you getting benefits though? The bad thing about working part time is that if the company decides to cut back, they will cut the part-timers first.
 
Getting accepted to a pharmacy school used to mean something. Now it's a joke. Ten years ago, there were just 4 pharmacy schools in California. Now, there are 8 and with 4 more opening up.

New graduates are coming out with 200-300 k in student loans and they are desperate to take whatever that is given to them. Things are going to get a lot worse for us.

Back then I thought my school was a joke, but everyone still had 3.0+ gpas and none of my buddies could get in. Now I hear all these pre-pharmers telling each other as long as you have a 2.0 or higher you'll get in somewhere. Wow 2.0! Itt tech and devry might as well start their own pharmacy program. What a joke.
 
No. The KGI should be fairly reputable though as they are part of the Claremont College System and yes Western U is only 15 minutes away :lame:

Plus Chapman University is planning on opening another one. :( 30 minutes away

The SoCal market is going to suck in the near future.

Chapman + KGI are one and the same school (joint-venture). The plan is to move the campus to Orange once facilities are done.
 
Back then I thought my school was a joke, but everyone still had 3.0+ gpas and none of my buddies could get in. Now I hear all these pre-pharmers telling each other as long as you have a 2.0 or higher you'll get in somewhere. Wow 2.0! Itt tech and devry might as well start their own pharmacy program. What a joke.

Exactly, just look at the pre-pharm forum. Here's one. I am glad this person got accepted but 13 Ds and 6 Fs? Seriously? This just makes me sad for our profession.

...At this point, I already had 13 Ds and 6 Fs on my transcript. I failed and retook a lot of classes. I went to my advisor one day and he told me I should switch my major to something easier. I was very discouraged at the time and those I used to call friends stopped talking to me....

My day came on a Wednesday morning when I got a voicemail from a top choice school that I was only applying for fun. I thought I absolutely had no chance so when I saw the call, I jumped about 5 feet. WAS THIS AN INTERVIEW? Why would a school call to reject me. It took me 3 tries to finally reach someone when I called back….INTERVIEW INVITE! My hopes went up. After this one, I ended up getting FIVE, YES 5 more interview invites. And remember, My Cum GPA was a 2.33, science 2.65, Pre req 2.77. Long story short, I've so far received 4 acceptances. After this cycle I will post my Pharmcas personal statement, which has helped me out tremendously.

So to all my friends out there who are still doubting themselves, STOP. Do an self evaluation, figure out the weaknesses on your app, and really take steps to correct them. I understand that a pharmacy tech job is hard to come by. But with a little bit of luck and bugging, I know anyone can find one with hard work. I am terrible at story telling and I left out a lot of other details. I felt like I needed to share this story because I am really surprised and grateful that I was given these opportunities.

http://mobile.sdn.net/showthread.php?p=13541033#post13541033
 
Hey schools gotta make money...what better than admitting someone who'll fail a few times, remediate, pay more tuition, and churn some butter while getting hammered academically?
 
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Exactly, just look at the pre-pharm forum. Here's one. I am glad this person got accepted but 13 Ds and 6 Fs? Seriously? This just makes me sad for our profession.



http://mobile.sdn.net/showthread.php?p=13541033#post13541033

That's unbelievable! Good for him but bad for everyone else. If this person can not even do adequate in undergrad, what makes him/her do well in pharmacy and become a COMPETENT pharmacist. Would you go to a doctor that did poorly? This plus CVS/Wags working conditions = SCARY for the public...medication error waiting to happen.
 
^^ Nothing against him but when he graduates, there will be thousands of new grads like him. Heavily in debt and will take whatever that is given to him. It's a race to the bottom. Think salary is not going to drop further? Just wait.
 
Doesn't matter. Some places won't even look at grads from new schools. Sad but true.

Ha ha, you reckon?

If they can do it for cheaper they sure will.

All employers want is cheap, no one cares about quality. Arms and legs with a licence is all that is required.
 
^^ like where? Certainly not cvs, Walgreens or rite aid.
 
Ha ha, you reckon?

If they can do it for cheaper they sure will.

All employers want is cheap, no one cares about quality. Arms and legs with a licence is all that is required.

Plenty of institutions care about quality and residencies certainly do.
 
Plenty of institutions care about quality and residencies certainly do.

be specific

Not retail

too bad 70% of the jobs are in retail.

I would say at least 90% of the places do not care where you graduated from as long as you are licensed.

Who's more desperate and willing to accept a lower paying job? The 32 year old guy who went to a for profit school and owe 300 k or the 27 year old guy who went to a state school and owe 75 k?
 
Even retail cares about quality of pharmacists to som degree. Thats partly why retail companies have internship programs to help decide whether their interns will be a good fit for the company after being licensed. Retail pharmacists not only have to be fast, but also demonstrate some degree of personal and professional maturity when itcomes to handling customer service and dealing with ever increasing daily stress. Even though we all like to describe retail pharmacy as "monkey see monkey do" kind of job, there are many situations wheree a pharmacist's professional knowledge is essential to answer difficult questions from customers and prescribers. An incompetent pharmacists who constantly make mustakes, cannot win the trust if customers, and cannot think quick enough while multitasking wont be a valuable assest to a retail pharmacy. Retail companies welcomes the oversupply of pharmacists, but they will probably not want someone from schools that consistently hire applicants with a constellations of F's and D's on their transcripts.
 
Is someone like that even going to be able to pass the NAPLEX?

Unfortunately the naplex is pretty easy. Many schools have 95-100% pass rate. In addition, there are programs that help new grads prepare for the naplex. I know people who study for a few days and still passed with a good score.
 
Even retail cares about quality of pharmacists to som degree. Thats partly why retail companies have internship programs to help decide whether their interns will be a good fit for the company after being licensed. Retail pharmacists not only have to be fast, but also demonstrate some degree of personal and professional maturity when itcomes to handling customer service and dealing with ever increasing daily stress. Even though we all like to describe retail pharmacy as "monkey see monkey do" kind of job, there are many situations wheree a pharmacist's professional knowledge is essential to answer difficult questions from customers and prescribers. An incompetent pharmacists who constantly make mustakes, cannot win the trust if customers, and cannot think quick enough while multitasking wont be a valuable assest to a retail pharmacy. Retail companies welcomes the oversupply of pharmacists, but they will probably not want someone from schools that consistently hire applicants with a constellations of F's and D's on their transcripts.

What you are saying is true but unfortunately, being a good retail pharmacist doesn't mean you are a good clinical pharmacist. It is about pleasing your customers and following the company's line. You don't need to come from a good school to do that.
 
Chapman + KGI are one and the same school (joint-venture). The plan is to move the campus to Orange once facilities are done.

I thought so too...and then I saw the last line in KGI's press release:
KGI had previously signed a memorandum of understanding with Chapman University to establish a joint School of BioPharmacy based on KGI's concept for the school. However, last month the leadership of both institutions reached the mutual decision to pursue independent schools.

Why open just one school when you can open two? :oops:
 
I thought so too...and then I saw the last line in KGI's press release:
KGI had previously signed a memorandum of understanding with Chapman University to establish a joint School of BioPharmacy based on KGI's concept for the school. However, last month the leadership of both institutions reached the mutual decision to pursue independent schools.

Why open just one school when you can open two? :oops:

Are you freaking serious? It's like the hydra...you cut one head off, it grows back two!!
 
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5 pharm schools within a one hour radius. Will AACP not doing anything about this?
 
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There is a school opening in Oakland in the next few years as well. The Accreditation board really needs to stop allowing schools to open, its bad for the profession but unfortunately great for all the employers.
 
be specific



too bad 70% of the jobs are in retail.

I would say at least 90% of the places do not care where you graduated from as long as you are licensed.

Who's more desperate and willing to accept a lower paying job? The 32 year old guy who went to a for profit school and owe 300 k or the 27 year old guy who went to a state school and owe 75 k?

I will not reveal my sources :D

Grads from new schools will have an uphill climb when it comes to residencies and some employers.
 
I will not reveal my sources :D

Grads from new schools will have an uphill climb when it comes to residencies and some employers.

That maybe, but when will these new schools be considered as established? sooner or later, the new schools now will be considered as established... either way this sucks
 
Exactly, just look at the pre-pharm forum. Here's one. I am glad this person got accepted but 13 Ds and 6 Fs? Seriously? This just makes me sad for our profession.




This attitude makes me a little sad. Why is it that everyone thinks the 3.0+ GPA is some measure of the accuracy for which an individual will be successful in pharmacy school or in the workforce afterward? Pharmacists are healthcare professionals and are supposed to exhibit empathy and non-judgmental acceptance of all types of patients. Why would it be any different for potential fellow classmates?
 
BM - I just loath reading your posts. I think the real reason why you are bitter is due to the fact that no one likes you both in real life and in online forums.

You can attack me all you want but I dont think you can dispute the fact that pharmacy schools have gotten a lot easier to get in.

I know you will be starting pharmacy school next year. I hope things will work out for you.
 
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This attitude makes me a little sad. Why is it that everyone thinks the 3.0+ GPA is some measure of the accuracy for which an individual will be successful in pharmacy school or in the workforce afterward? Pharmacists are healthcare professionals and are supposed to exhibit empathy and non-judgmental acceptance of all types of patients. Why would it be any different for potential fellow classmates?

That's not the point. The point is there should be some standard in attending pharmacy school. I mean if a person with all Ds and Fs can get into pharmacy school, then why even bother trying in undergrad. anymore? Should I still be accepted into Yale or Harvard even tho I didn't have a perfect GPA back in high school? By your argument, everybody should complain about their 2.0 GPA not getting them into Yale?!?!?! I mean they can still succeed once they get accepted right?!?!?! I could write more, but I think you get my point.

Pharmacy school shouldn't be like this, I mean it's a medical professional school for crying out loud.
 
I don't have a problem with individuals in the C-range GPA getting into pharmacy school. Anyone can be trained to look at labs, a medication profile, retrieve treatment guidelines, and analyze all that data in order to make recommendations to medical interns and residents.

As long as medical schools aren't lowering their requirements to that degree, I won't be worried. Nobody wants to go to a doctor who is scrolling through his phone or looking in a book while he is trying to make your diagnosis. Critical thinking is a lot more crucial in diagnosticians.
 
That's not the point. The point is there should be some standard in attending pharmacy school. I mean if a person with all Ds and Fs can get into pharmacy school, then why even bother trying in undergrad. anymore? Should I still be accepted into Yale or Harvard even tho I didn't have a perfect GPA back in high school? By your argument, everybody should complain about their 2.0 GPA not getting them into Yale?!?!?! I mean they can still succeed once they get accepted right?!?!?! I could write more, but I think you get my point.

Pharmacy school shouldn't be like this, I mean it's a medical professional school for crying out loud.

Well friend, I've worked in pharmacy for a very long time and I can tell you that some of the highest academic achievers make the WORST pharmacists. If you think for one second that fancy Latin on your degree magically gives you appropriate bedside manners then you are sadly mistaken. You don't know what the circumstances surrounding this person's academic career are. Perhaps there was a medical condition or personal problems or a death in the family? We can't possibly know every individual's situation. I am fully aware of the academically elitist attitude that many professional students possess. Food for thought...if the adcoms think a person is good enough then why on earth would you assume that you have the right to judge their worthiness? I bet you're one of those people that just assumes that every patient requesting a controlled substance early is a drug seeker too.:rolleyes:
 
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Well friend, I've worked in pharmacy for a very long time and I can tell you that some of the highest academic achievers make the WORST pharmacists. If you think for one second that fancy Latin on your degree magically gives you appropriate bedside manners then you are sadly mistaken. You don't know what the circumstances surrounding this person's academic career are. Perhaps there was a medical condition or personal problems or a death in the family? We can't possibly know every individual's situation. I am fully aware of the academically elitist attitude that many professional students possess. Food for thought...if the adcoms think a person is good enough then why on earth would you assume that you have the right to judge their worthiness? I bet you're one of those people that just assumes that every patient requesting a controlled substance early is a drug seeker too.:rolleyes:

I don't give a chit what your reasons are. If you have Ds & Fs, you don't know about the materials and you won't be my provider. Do you want to have a surgeon who failed anatomy twice, and passed with a D?
 
Well friend, I've worked in pharmacy for a very long time and I can tell you that some of the highest academic achievers make the WORST pharmacists. If you think for one second that fancy Latin on your degree magically gives you appropriate bedside manners then you are sadly mistaken. You don't know what the circumstances surrounding this person's academic career are. Perhaps there was a medical condition or personal problems or a death in the family? We can't possibly know every individual's situation. I am fully aware of the academically elitist attitude that many professional students possess. Food for thought...if the adcoms think a person is good enough then why on earth would you assume that you have the right to judge their worthiness? I bet you're one of those people that just assumes that every patient requesting a controlled substance early is a drug seeker too.:rolleyes:

lol... what about clinical pharmacists? ;)
Im high academic achiever, in my pharmacy I worked with those who have a full ride scholarship through school, and another one who was placed top 5% in grades during his pharmacy school career. They are very knowledgeable and arent the worst pharmacists ever like you said, as patients come in just to see them specifically.

Just be hard working, if you know your stuff, you will do well at work and at school.
 
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Well friend, I've worked in pharmacy for a very long time and I can tell you that some of the highest academic achievers make the WORST pharmacists. If you think for one second that fancy Latin on your degree magically gives you appropriate bedside manners then you are sadly mistaken. You don't know what the circumstances surrounding this person's academic career are. Perhaps there was a medical condition or personal problems or a death in the family? We can't possibly know every individual's situation. I am fully aware of the academically elitist attitude that many professional students possess. Food for thought...if the adcoms think a person is good enough then why on earth would you assume that you have the right to judge their worthiness? I bet you're one of those people that just assumes that every patient requesting a controlled substance early is a drug seeker too.:rolleyes:

Undergrad is not hard. If you can't even bother to try hard enough to get a B (which is pretty minimal effort) you have shown you're lazy and not prepared for graduate work. There is not extenuating circumstance that excuses a less than 3.0 GPA. Even if someone dies, that doesn't excuse you from life for a year. If the person had a medical condition that caused him to miss so much time he failed all of his classes for several semesters, then he probably is going to have that come back and isn't fit to be in a graduate program. Adcoms will admit anyone because people=money and that's what these schools are about.

There really is no excuse for multiple F's and D's. It's sad that person is admitted to pharm school.
 
My understanding is that regardless of GPA, you must pass all prerequisite courses with a C or better? I don't understand why you would assume that folks are gaining acceptances with anything less? An A in Physics when attending a community college is not necessarily the same as an A in Physics at a four year university. I also wasn't aware of any pharmacy program that prints a copy of your transcript on your Pharm.D when you graduate so how would you know what your provider's GPA was in grad school? I will say that academically superior students can sometimes be more successful as clinical pharmacists because it requires a variation in skill set, but I've also worked with some outstanding clinical staff members who happened to be mediocre students. I just hope that the majority of you don't really believe that your 3.99 GPA makes you more attractive as an employment candidate because most employers don't give a fig as long as you pass the NAPLEX.
 
I don't give a chit what your reasons are. If you have Ds & Fs, you don't know about the materials and you won't be my provider. Do you want to have a surgeon who failed anatomy twice, and passed with a D?

Actually, I don't care if the surgeon failed anatomy, I'm going to look at his mortality and infection rate.
 
Of course they will. They will continue to approve schools that meet the minimum standards, which they are required by law to do.

Time for my Sherman Antitrust law lecture? :smuggrin:

Nah I'll make the n00bs search for it.
 
My understanding is that regardless of GPA, you must pass all prerequisite courses with a C or better? I don't understand why you would assume that folks are gaining acceptances with anything less? An A in Physics when attending a community college is not necessarily the same as an A in Physics at a four year university. I also wasn't aware of any pharmacy program that prints a copy of your transcript on your Pharm.D when you graduate so how would you know what your provider's GPA was in grad school? I will say that academically superior students can sometimes be more successful as clinical pharmacists because it requires a variation in skill set, but I've also worked with some outstanding clinical staff members who happened to be mediocre students. I just hope that the majority of you don't really believe that your 3.99 GPA makes you more attractive as an employment candidate because most employers don't give a fig as long as you pass the NAPLEX.

Mediocre is one thing. Horrible (less than 3.0) is completely different.
 
My understanding is that regardless of GPA, you must pass all prerequisite courses with a C or better? I don't understand why you would assume that folks are gaining acceptances with anything less? An A in Physics when attending a community college is not necessarily the same as an A in Physics at a four year university. I also wasn't aware of any pharmacy program that prints a copy of your transcript on your Pharm.D when you graduate so how would you know what your provider's GPA was in grad school? I will say that academically superior students can sometimes be more successful as clinical pharmacists because it requires a variation in skill set, but I've also worked with some outstanding clinical staff members who happened to be mediocre students. I just hope that the majority of you don't really believe that your 3.99 GPA makes you more attractive as an employment candidate because most employers don't give a fig as long as you pass the NAPLEX.

I guess you are a D student too huh? lol and if you really think a D/F student should get in to any professional school, then I feel sorry for you
 
Well friend, I've worked in pharmacy for a very long time and I can tell you that some of the highest academic achievers make the WORST pharmacists. If you think for one second that fancy Latin on your degree magically gives you appropriate bedside manners then you are sadly mistaken. You don't know what the circumstances surrounding this person's academic career are. Perhaps there was a medical condition or personal problems or a death in the family? We can't possibly know every individual's situation. I am fully aware of the academically elitist attitude that many professional students possess. Food for thought...if the adcoms think a person is good enough then why on earth would you assume that you have the right to judge their worthiness? I bet you're one of those people that just assumes that every patient requesting a controlled substance early is a drug seeker too.:rolleyes:

Why are you so clueless? What you just said has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about having a set of STANDARDS in attending pharmacy school. You know, just like everything else in life. If you want to work on Wall Street, you better be better than everyone else in your field. If you want to go to an Ivy League school, then you better meet their standards too.

If a D/F student can get into pharmacy school right now, then that just shows me there are currently no standards for getting accepted. This does not reflect well for the profession. What you said about high academic achievers make the worst pharmacist is completely irrelevant to the current discussion. Again, this has nothing to do with having an elitist attitude, it's all about having a SET OF STANDARDS!

You seriously sound like one of those people that say "Don't judge, they are overweight because they have a medical condition!!!" If your personal situation was so bad that you can't put up any effort in school... then you know what? There's something called taking times off!!! Why would a person stay in class and waste their time to get Ds and Fs, when they could be taking care of their "personal problems?"
 
Why are you so clueless? What you just said has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about having a set of STANDARDS in attending pharmacy school. You know, just like everything else in life. If you want to work on Wall Street, you better be better than everyone else in your field. If you want to go to an Ivy League school, then you better meet their standards too.

If a D/F student can get into pharmacy school right now, then that just shows me there are currently no standards for getting accepted. This does not reflect well for the profession. What you said about high academic achievers make the worst pharmacist is completely irrelevant to the current discussion. Again, this has nothing to do with having an elitist attitude, it's all about having a SET OF STANDARDS!

You seriously sound like one of those people that say "Don't judge, they are overweight because they have a medical condition!!!" If your personal situation was so bad that you can't put up any effort in school... then you know what? There's something called taking times off!!! Why would a person stay in class and waste their time to get Ds and Fs, when they could be taking care of their "personal problems?"

Ok, first of all you need to cool that attitude. Secondly, standards are subjective. Are you a member of an adcom? If not, then your ideas about standards don't mean jack. Also, for the person who decided that I was a D/F student...sorry but no, my GPA is not in the gutter. Finally, my deepest sympathies are extended to you all because someday you will come across another individual just like yourself and you will most certainly not meet their "standards." Good luck in your endeavors.
 
Ok, first of all you need to cool that attitude. Secondly, standards are subjective. Are you a member of an adcom? If not, then your ideas about standards don't mean jack. Also, for the person who decided that I was a D/F student...sorry but no, my GPA is not in the gutter. Finally, my deepest sympathies are extended to you all because someday you will come across another individual just like yourself and you will most certainly not meet their "standards." Good luck in your endeavors.

wtf? lol what attitude? Now I'm getting a little attitude because I can't believe you are this dense. No sht I won't meet some other people's standards. That's why I didn't go to MIT or didn't get accepted by every job I applied for and I'm completely fine with that. And you need to accept the fact that having standards is a good thing. That's why not everyone can be the president or a CEO or whatever.

I'm saying having all Ds and Fs on your transcript should NOT be the standard for getting admitted into a pharmacy school. I mean I seriously can't believe we are even having this argument. Your GPA might not be in the gutter, but your mind obviously is...
 
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