New Poll: Change D.O. to M.D.O. ? - Yes or No -

[sleepdoc17]

Your response is important. Complete the poll: Should the D.O. degree be changed to M.D.O. degree?

(((We all know that there are many, many discussions on this forum about changing the degree. There are even a few polls here. Please read the logic below for this new poll...)))

There are a few organized movements that are considering advocating for this new degree change.


HISTORY and REASON for new poll:

Recent articles in the JAOA have explained the history of the osteopathic degree, and the debates and discussions surrounding the designation, and change in the designation, of the osteopathic degree.

The discussion of changing the degree from D.O. to M.D.O. dates back to July, 1899 (JAOA, Feb 2014 p.122).

Although the D.O. degree has a century-old history in the U.S., many believe that the designation has failed to become equal in status, understanding, and awareness as the M.D. designation. Many D.O.'s, although proud of their education, do not feel that their careers are as recognizable as their allopathic counterparts.

To complicate the significance and universality of the D.O. degree is the fact that there are several schools around the world that offer a D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathy) degree that is not a medical degree. In Spain, there are schools that offer a D.O. degree by internet distance education. These individuals with international D.O. degrees are not physicians and are limited to osteopathic manipulation only.

The heterogeneity of the 'D.O.' degree around the world has caused confusion in the general public about the degree. It may be a reason why U.S. D.O.'s are unable to practice medicine in many countries around the world. Of all of the D.O. degrees that are issued around the world, only U.S. D.O. degrees are medical degrees.

There have been a few polls about changing the D.O. to M.D. It is the opinion of many that this is not a realistic possibility. Critics of this proposal state that it detracts from the unique aspects and history of our field.

Many believe that osteopathic physicians need a new designation that is specific and unique to a medical degree; that indicates that the osteopathic physician is a physician, AND an an osteopathic physician.

Given the recent change of our diploma designation in the U.S. over the past few decades from "Doctor of Osteopathy" to "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine", many believe that the "M"-medicine should be added to our designation, and that 'Medical Doctor - Osteopathic' or 'Medical Doctor of Osteopathy' is more descriptive.

This poll is not about changing the degree to anything other than M.D.O. There are several posts on this forum about changing to M.D., M.D/D.O., MDDO, OMD, and others. This polls should be limited to D.O and M.D.O. Please only answer if you are an osteopathic student or osteopathic physician.

Complete the poll: Should the D.O. degree be changed to M.D.O. degree?

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[sleepdoc17]

Some links to review regarding this poll:

http://www.jaoa.org/content/109/7/359.long

List of international non-physician D.O. shools: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_osteopathic_colleges

Online D.O. school : http://www.numss.com/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/m-d-o.26648/

page 4: http://www.jaoa.org/content/110/4/247.1.full.pdf+html

 

[sleepdoc17]

Please note that in the wikipedia link list above that none of those international D.O. osteopathic schools, except for U.S, grant a medical degree. They grant 'Osteopathy' degrees.

 

[DocEspana]

for anal retentive people like myself, can we get a degree in latin? Pleeeeaaaaase.

Medicinae Doctor. So cool.

 

[HopefulReapp]

I think the most realistic change in the future would be something like "M.D., DO". This would be similar to additional distinctions that some physicians hold (such as FAAP, etc..) The main goal is to reduce public misconception, nothing else.

Essentially the only difference between MD and DO is the additional training in OMM. If program directors are going to discriminate against osteopathic students, they'll do it no matter what based off of the school listed from the application... It doesn't matter what the initials say.

 

[Mehd School]

Switching from two letters to three makes me itch. Moving from one relatively unknown degree to a totally unknown degree won't help our cause.

 

[sylvanthus]

Switching from two letters to three makes me itch. Moving from one relatively unknown degree to a totally unknown degree won't help our cause.

Agreed, instead of "what is a DO?" we get "what is a MDO, or MD, DO?" This is not progress people. People would be equally or more confused. It just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

 

[DO3]

Leave as is. DOs are making progress with regards to public recognition. This would take us back to square one. Not necessary.

 

[sleepdoc17]

Friends, this isn't just about pubic recognition - it is also about international distinction as physicians. There are too many schools around the world that offer a non-medical D.O. degree, and too many countries that do not allow U.S. D.O's to practice medicine.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Agreed, instead of "what is a DO?" we get "what is a MDO, or MD, DO?" This is not progress people. People would be equally or more confused. It just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

I disagree about the MD, DO. How many doctors have other letters people don't know? Does the public really know what an FAOFP or MHA is? Everyone knows what MD is.

The profession as a whole will improve if we dissociate from the euro quacks.

 

[Member10billion]

I think it may not be a bad idea. We would be a medical doctors with added osteopathic training. We could be more recognizable to the general public.

 

[VisceralFlame]

I feel that the MDO option would be a good idea in order to distinguish US DOs from international DOs. I would be in favor of this

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

My personal stance is MD, DO.

 

[DO3]

Friends, this isn't just about pubic recognition - it is also about international distinction as physicians. There are too many schools around the world that offer a non-medical D.O. degree, and too many countries that do not allow U.S. D.O's to practice medicine.

There are countries that do not let US MDs practice medicine. No reason to change it. Just leaves us with more explaining to do.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

MDO looks a lot to me like DMD and VMD. Might as well switch to NMD for non medical doctor.

 

[Starry]

Is this a serious discussion that is really up for change? I'd be very very very surprised if anything changed since there is a vocal minority who are passionate about the distinctness of DOs. Anyways, I prefer MD, DO.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I add my vote to Serenade's and Starry's. I support the MD, DO. It has the "indisputable" MD initials, but also gives us credit for all the OMM training we receive in med school.

 

[user3]

I add my vote to Serenade's and Starry's. I support the MD, DO. It has the "indisputable" MD initials, but also gives us credit for all the OMM training we receive in med school.

but then every premed would apply to these, competition would skyrocket to current MD levels (~3.7/32 average), and most of us on here would be unable get into these "MD, DO" schools. That is the catch.

 

[ReeseC]

For people in favor of MD, DO. Do you think an allopathic grad should be able to get a DO added if they completed OMM training? For those who maybe are not aware - MDs are able to take courses and learn OMM.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

For people in favor of MD, DO. Do you think an allopathic grad should be able to get a DO added if they completed OMM training? For those who maybe are not aware - MDs are able to take courses and learn OMM.

Sure why not. If you complete a OMM residency or an AOA program with high competency in OMM/OPP then sure.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

but then every premed would apply to these, competition would skyrocket to current MD levels (~3.7/32 average), and most of us on here would be unable get into these "MD, DO" schools. That is the catch.

It'd go up for sure.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

but then every premed would apply to these, competition would skyrocket to current MD levels (~3.7/32 average), and most of us on here would be unable get into these "MD, DO" schools. That is the catch.

I'm in already, so I don't care

 

[SnowDoggy44]

Hypothetically, if there was to be a MDO or some other designation, would a person holding both an allopathic and osteopathic medicine degree have MD, MDO? Instead of MD, DO as it is now?

 

[sleepdoc17]

Friends, this about MDO - not MD, DO. Based on recent events and statements by higher powers, it appears unlikely that M.D. would be added to the D.O. degree. This poll is about a new designation - M.D.O.

 

[NontradCA]

This is the worst thread ever.

 

[cbtk18]

My personal stance is MD, DO.

Friends, this about MDO - not MD, DO. Based on recent events and statements by higher powers, it appears unlikely that M.D. would be added to the D.O. degree. This poll is about a new designation - M.D.O.

And MD, DO is not a new designation?

Don't get you panties in a way when your dumb thread goes to places you don't want it to.

 

[Starry]

For people in favor of MD, DO. Do you think an allopathic grad should be able to get a DO added if they completed OMM training? For those who maybe are not aware - MDs are able to take courses and learn OMM.

Of course they should!
If OP is only arguing for MDO, then same thing can apply.
I still prefer MD, DO though since both sets of initials already have ideas attached to them. Although DO's can supposedly already get a MD, DO.... http://web.unthsc.edu/info/200285/office_of_the_president/235/meet_dr_williams

 

[SurgeDO]

i vote we switch it to MD.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

but then every premed would apply to these, competition would skyrocket to current MD levels (~3.7/32 average), and most of us on here would be unable get into these "MD, DO" schools. That is the catch.

It's true most of us would be SOL, but if you transport all of us 25 years back and we'd be MD competitive. Times move forward and the best candidates are the ones to make it. We'd be the lucky ones that squeezed in.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

For people in favor of MD, DO. Do you think an allopathic grad should be able to get a DO added if they completed OMM training? For those who maybe are not aware - MDs are able to take courses and learn OMM.

I don't mind. I have yet to meet a modern osteopathic physician that isn't inclusive.

 

[eimaise]

I too would prefer MD, DO over DO simply for the recognition and accuracy of that title. MDO is not a terrible alternative though.

OP - do you feel like the MDO designation would truly help our practice rights globally to increase? Wouldn't foreign governments ask the same question they do now ... "what's that degree mean?" I am not sure I understand how it helps our cause to create a new degree that is not MD or MD, DO.

 

[Nissan GTR]

How about OMD?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

How about OMD?

Doctor of Oriental Medicine has it. No joke.

 

[Member10billion]

Is anything really going to change? Why are we discussing this?

 

[HopefulReapp]

Looks like I should have trademarked MD, DO before posting

 

[TeamZissou]

Why are those who have yet to set foot inside medical school or clinical rotations some of the main voices on here?

You know not of what you speak. Until you actually have the designation behind your name it is not yours to change.

Too much hubris here...

 

[darktooth]

I like DO...my aunt used to tell me "don't just talk, get out there and do!" .... well im not just out there and doing now, that is going to be my title. I DO. D.O. love it. You should too.

 

[DocVapor]

I agree with others about changing the degree not really fixing anything. It seems like a couple times a week someone tells me they just recently learned about D.O.'s. Why waste the recognition the degree already has by switching it to a new one And I don't feel like what other countries are doing with the DO degree is much reason at all to change what is going on here.


Also,

I like DO...my aunt used to tell me "don't just talk, get out there and do!" .... well im not just out there and doing now, that is going to be my title. I DO. D.O. love it. You should too.

I hope you can admit that this is more than a little cheesy. But I will give you a like anyway.

 

[Elevencents]

I can't take credit for it, but I remember someone bringing it up in another thread. If you have issue with your initials, just rock D.O.O.M. Doesn't get much more bad ass than that.

 

[docnotsopc]

Oh look, its this thread again. Not bad, SDN made it a few months without one.

Believe me, im very anti DO letters despite being a DO student. I think it causes confusion for some patients and an automatic unfair discrimination at certain ACGME programs. However, changing it to anything but MD is pointless. Also this will NEVER happen because the AOA is too proud

 

[croak]

Oh look, its this thread again. Not bad, SDN made it a few months without one.

Believe me, im very anti DO letters despite being a DO student. I think it causes confusion for some patients and an automatic unfair discrimination at certain ACGME programs. However, changing it to anything but MD is pointless. Also this will NEVER happen because the AOA is too proud

 

[croak]

 

[RonArtest]

you guys aren't MD's... period. Half your education is wasted on learning OMM. You also take a much easier version of the USMLE. If you want to be called MD, go to an MD school and take the Steps.

 

[farhan583]

you guys aren't MD's... period. Half your education is wasted on learning OMM. You also take a much easier version of the USMLE. If you want to be called MD, go to an MD school and take the Steps.

Please go back to whatever IMG forum you came from.

 

[EMDO2018]

Lot of insecurity and prestige envy in this thread.

 

[bajastapler]

D.O. is an antiquated term. We as physicians - whether osteopathically or allopathically trained - should present a united front and use the more commonly presented: M.D. degree. Why? Not because I don't support the D.O. cause. Hell i firmly believe in it, BUT we're so busy trying to explain to a patient what a D.O. is that we lose potential opportunities to market ourselves and - at the same time - we lose that instant level of trust with a patient (we have "prove" our credibility). It's a sad day when patients are more familiar with what an N.P. and P.A. is than what a D.O. is.

My two cents: AOA needs to ramp up it's marketing of D.O.s or fall in line and adopt the M.D. degree name. Also, we really should change the name because we - as physicians - should be united and working towards fighting off mid-level practitioner rights instead of bickering over historical terms.

edit: and honestly? What's the big issue with changing our degree name to MDO? It still holds onto the ideologies introduced by Dr. Stills AND it makes it a term more recognizable to our patients, which should be our number one concern. The two letters at the end of our name should NOT define us. D.O. is no more relevant than if my degree title was "A.A. or Z.Z." Just like my friends on the allopathic side are not M.D.s I am not a D.O. I'm a f*cking physician. period. (student physician if we're being technical ).

 

[Lost Vagus]

you guys aren't MD's... period. Half your education is wasted on learning OMM. You also take a much easier version of the USMLE. If you want to be called MD, go to an MD school and take the Steps.

Most D.O. grads take the USMLE. OMM is additional training, so DO students actually take more class hours than MD students. If you really think all of that, then I feel sorry for you.

Also, I don't really care about changing the degree to M.D.O. I'm fine with being a DO. Just as an FYI, the whole debate about making it MD, DO would be the least likely to happen. A comma is used to separate degrees. In order to be MD, DO... you would need two degrees. Anyways, it's stupid to argue about this. It's not ever going to happen, and if it did I don't think it would do our profession any good. The only people it would benefit is insecure pre-meds. Nobody asks you where you went to medical school. The D.O. degree has been around for a long time, get used to it.

 

[jaguar33]

This thread is stupid. If you do not want to be a D.O then why did you apply to D.O schools? The profession is not a back-up MD degree. Hopefully most admission committees are able to weed out the people who are trying to use it as such.

 

[bionerd89]

you guys aren't MD's... period. Half your education is wasted on learning OMM. You also take a much easier version of the USMLE. If you want to be called MD, go to an MD school and take the Steps.

If there was a cure for ignorance, you need to be first in line.

 

[bionerd89]

Oh look, its this thread again. Not bad, SDN made it a few months without one.

Believe me, im very anti DO letters despite being a DO student. I think it causes confusion for some patients and an automatic unfair discrimination at certain ACGME programs. However, changing it to anything but MD is pointless. Also this will NEVER happen because the AOA is too proud

If you enter a room and introduce yourself as Dr___ , will the patient still ask about your degree?