New Poll: Change D.O. to M.D.O. ? - Yes or No -

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Poll: Should the D.O. degree be changed to M.D.O. degree?

  • Change the D.O. degree to M.D.O. degree

    Votes: 114 51.1%
  • Do not change the D.O. degree

    Votes: 109 48.9%

  • Total voters
    223
  • Poll closed .
How about you put in the effort to explain yourself and stop with the mini-sentences.
I mean if you think DOs are just bone medics I'm not sure I can help you. I would suggest you do some shadowing at your schools OPP clinic. And if you aren't in a DO school and plan on going - don't be that MD reject guy who trashes OPP non stop. None of your classmates will like you.

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I mean if you think DOs are just bone medics I'm not sure I can help you. I would suggest you do some shadowing at your schools OPP clinic. And if you aren't in a DO school and plan on going - don't be that MD reject guy who trashes OPP non stop. None of your classmates will like you.

Did you really get this from reading my post....? I mean I'm not sure how to exactly start explaining since you're not reading my posts with any degree of accuracy.
 
I mean if you think DOs are just bone medics I'm not sure I can help you. I would suggest you do some shadowing at your schools OPP clinic. And if you aren't in a DO school and plan on going - don't be that MD reject guy who trashes OPP non stop. None of your classmates will like you.
I think you may have missed the point of the statement... serenade was saying "bone medics" b/c osteo = bone and most people (general public) don't understand what an osteopath is or does. I don't believe there was any malfeasance going on. Also, the point of the conversation was to point out that Psy D and PhD in psy are essentially the same thing with the same practice but different titles and ways of getting there... that parallels the DO and MD... which are essentially the same thing just different titles and ways of getting there. I honestly don't think serenade meant to be overly aggressive towards anyone really, I think he was being fairly neutral.
 
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Yah, I mean like I've said before. I'm interested in OMM and I think it could be a potentially decent tool.

However I also believe that it should be cut back to just first year so that DOs can have more time to dedicate to doing better on the USMLE and second year classes.

Likewise I think all programs should award the MD degree.


I don't think I'm destroying the osteopathic field. And I don't think I'm rocking the boat. I feel that in the end the AOA owes it to their future constituents to be in the best position for free and equal practice.
 
I was comparing Psy.D to PhD and relating it to DO to MD.
My apologies, I thought you were trying to make an analogy where the Psychiatrist is the MD and the Psy.D is the DO. Carry on.
 
With the explosion of psychology prescribing, I would not be shocked if psychiatry merges with psychology and be similar to having dental or podiatry schools.

Explosion? There are only two states that permit "Medical Psychologists". I just took a look at my directory and I have 300+ Psychiatrists and 2 "medical psychologists". Their prescribing rights are severely limited as well. I wouldn't go expecting a merger anytime soon (read: ever) especially with the boom that's right around the corner with the genetics assay testing in Psychiatry.
 
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Explosion? There are only two states that permit "Medical Psychologists" and I live in one of them. I just took a look at my directory and I have 300+ Psychiatrists and 2 "medical psychologists". Their prescribing rights are severely limited as well. I wouldn't go expecting a merger anytime soon (read: ever) especially with the boom that's right around the corner with the genetics assay testing in Psychiatry.


The future of psychiatry is beautiful tbh.
 
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The future of psychiatry is beautiful tbh.

People have no idea. The patient spits in a tube and two weeks later we get a report back that says which antidepressants will work and which won't. And...they've mostly been very right thus far. Add that to the insane demand and you can about name your price in private practice.

It's too bad I find it so damn uninteresting.
 
And what would happen if tomorrow osteopathic medicine were to disappear from the world? What exactly would the effects be?

But I think the reality would be more like what would happen if all the DO schools were MD schools? And what if they respected their roots of osteopathic medicine and proceeded to simply award a degree that communicated that they were medical doctors and not bone medics?
Turning all DO schools into MD schools = eliminating the osteopathic profession.
There is no osteopathy without DO's.
 
Turning all DO schools into MD schools = eliminating the osteopathic profession.
There is no osteopathy without DO's.

1) Osteopathy wouldn't be eliminated because there are international osteopathy schools that teach it without having to go through 4 years of med school.
2) X College of Osteopathic Medicine Awarding the MD degree while either retaining the OMM & paradigm curriculum while awarding the MD degree does not eliminate the osteopathic profession. It simply standardizes the degree. Likewise even reducing the amount of OMM to just year one does not inherently eliminate the profession.
3) OMM could in the latter option be designated as a graduate medical education competence. That way we could be inclusive and allow MDs to train in OMM.


As you can see there are a multitude of ways we can change the career for the better without 'eliminating osteopathy'.
 
Turning all DO schools into MD schools = eliminating the osteopathic profession.
There is no osteopathy without DO's.

I don't know if that's entirely accurate. I'm sure you could still have the tenets and OMT even without the degree per se. It'll just be more the responsibility of the school, professors, organizations, etc. to promote it.

That said, I'm not sure this conversation is really going anywhere since they have been talking about doing this in the DO profession for about a century, and they keep coming to the same conclusion (i.e. keep the DO degree).

I'm personally just happy to be student doctor.
 
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Did you really get this from reading my post....? I mean I'm not sure how to exactly start explaining since you're not reading my posts with any degree of accuracy.

Which is why I asked about sarcasm clarification. Refer to my previous post.

Yah, I mean like I've said before. I'm interested in OMM and I think it could be a potentially decent tool.

However I also believe that it should be cut back to just first year so that DOs can have more time to dedicate to doing better on the USMLE and second year classes.

Likewise I think all programs should award the MD degree.


I don't think I'm destroying the osteopathic field. And I don't think I'm rocking the boat. I feel that in the end the AOA owes it to their future constituents to be in the best position for free and equal practice.

Cut back on opp to take an optional test? lol just go to MD school please.
 
Which is why I asked about sarcasm clarification. Refer to my previous post.



Cut back on opp to take an optional test? lol just go to MD school please.

Optional? You do realize that there aren't enough DO residencies for every DO right? And that the ratio isn't getting any better?
And you do also realize that with the standardized match in the future it becomes in the best interest of every DO to take the usmle as many PDs don't know what a comlex is let alone care?

If these are characteristics of something optional in your mind, then you're probably also driving around without car insurance or something...


Also what is with this 5th grade attitude of dissents needing to go to MD?
 
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Optional? ... in the best interest of every DO to take the usmle

There are many people who would argue this - nevertheless if it isn't required to graduate - it's optional. No 2 ways around it.

PDs don't know what a comlex is let alone care?

There's a conversion. Nothing in the merger said that DOs be required to take step 1.

Also what is with this 5th grade attitude of dissents needing to go to MD?

I was just merely suggesting you to go an alternative route since it seemed to match up with your goals more. Cutting OPP to 1 year is ludicrous. Ask any student the difference between their palpatory skills in year 1 vs year 2. It takes time and practice. It cannot be learned overnight. Like I said earlier. You should put in time in an OPP clinic. I'd think then you'd realized why many of us disagree with what you're saying.

P.S. - no need for sour grapes. Keep this professional.
 
Again, your being silly here. With the merger the rate of DOs taking the usmle will only go up and I won't be surprised if it will eventually become a true requirement replacing the COMLEX ( You'll say I'm silly, but I think eventually it'll happen).
What exactly are my goals lol. Like I said, I think OMM is interesting and I like manipulatory medicine and have benefited from it.

That being said the only one agreeing is GUH. Everyone else seems to agree that it would be a fair concession to reduce OMM for the sake of adding more time for board prep. Likewise, I believe that OMM competency could be a graduate medical education competence.

Regarding professionalism, I think you may wish to read my posts and stop claiming that my dissent attitude implies that I should go MD. That's like saying that the entire SOMA should have been sent to MD school because they petitioned the AOA to remove cranial.
 
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Again, your being silly here. With the merger the rate of DOs taking the usmle will only go up and I won't be surprised if it will eventually become a true requirement replacing the COMLEX ( You'll say I'm silly, but I think eventually it'll happen).
What exactly are my goals lol. Like I said, I think OMM is interesting and I like manipulatory medicine and have benefited from it.

That being said the only one agreeing is GUH. Everyone else seems to agree that it would be a fair concession to reduce OMM for the sake of adding more time for board prep. Likewise, I believe that OMM competency could be a graduate medical education competence.

Regarding professionalism, I think you may wish to read my posts and stop claiming that my dissent attitude implies that I should go MD. That's like saying that the entire SOMA should have been sent to MD school because they petitioned the AOA to remove cranial.
You're saying that you want all DO's to get MD's instead, but at the same time you want to get a DO degree rather than an MD degree... there is a disconnect here.
Do you want an MD after your name or a DO?
 
You're saying that you want all DO's to get MD's instead, but at the same time you want to get a DO degree rather than an MD degree... there is a disconnect here.

Not at all, I'm saying that medical schools irrespective of their philosophical orientation and hours spent on OMM education should award the MD degree.


Regarding myself, I looked for schools that were right for me and based on fit. I honestly will however say that I am interested in OMM and I have seen it work in providing relief in pain ( albeit with a lecture on how MDs would just have given you pills and let you go instead of helping you know... because PTs don't exist).

But again, I'm aiming to be a doctor. Not a representative for the AOA or AMA nor a defender of A.T. Still.
 
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Not at all, I'm saying that medical schools irrespective of their philosophical orientation and hours spent on OMM education should award the MD degree.


Regarding myself, I looked for schools that were right for me and based on fit.
So what degree do you want after your name?
 
So what degree do you want after your name?

The one that will let me practice medicine. To which I would be proud to be a DO and have had the chance to become a doctor.

But again, I don't think there needs to be two degrees. I think we could all be happy graduates of osteopathic medical schools, know OMM, etc and still have MDs.
 
The one that will let me practice medicine. To which I would be proud to be a DO and have had the chance to become a doctor.

But again, I don't think there needs to be two degrees. I think we could all be happy graduates of osteopathic medical schools, know OMM, etc and still have MDs.
What about those of us who actually want to be DO's? It's not like the degree is a new thing that just came up out of nowhere.
 
What about those of us who actually want to be DO's?

You'll be graduates of osteopathic medical school with all the same educational capabilities. You'll be a medical doctor who trained at a osteopathic medical school.
 
You'll be graduates of osteopathic medical school with all the same educational capabilities. You'll be a medical doctor who trained at a osteopathic medical school.
It's not entirely fair to deny a DO to those of us who went to DO school to become DO's.
 
It's not entirely fair to deny a DO to those of us who went to DO school to become DO's.

You went to DO school because you want to practice medicine... not because you want to practice the art of writing or typing D.O. And again, in a world where only the MD degree is awarded but osteopathic curriculum is retained you are in practice still a DO.


Alright, lets postulate the alternative of MD, DO? What is your opinion of that?
 
You went to DO school because you want to practice medicine... not because you want to practice the art of writing or typing D.O. And again, in a world where only the MD degree is awarded but osteopathic curriculum is retained you are in practice still a DO.


Alright, lets postulate the alternative of MD, DO? What is your opinion of that?
It's unnecessary - the DO is already a medical degree. It's like awarding a BS, BA for the completion of one 4-year undergraduate program.
 
It's unnecessary - the DO is already a medical degree. It's like awarding a BS, BA for the completion of one 4-year undergraduate program.

How do you wish to create distinction from DOs who are medical doctors i.e US DOs v.s Foreign DOs who only practice OMM?
 
How do you wish to create distinction from DOs who are medical doctors i.e US DOs v.s Foreign DOs who only practice OMM?
Foreign-trained DO's are not allowed to practice in the United States, so it's not an issue for the vast, vast majority of DO's here in the United States.
 
Explosion? There are only two states that permit "Medical Psychologists" and I live in one of them. I just took a look at my directory and I have 300+ Psychiatrists and 2 "medical psychologists". Their prescribing rights are severely limited as well. I wouldn't go expecting a merger anytime soon (read: ever) especially with the boom that's right around the corner with the genetics assay testing in Psychiatry.
Can you elaborate on that?
 
I can't believe this garbage is still getting any traction. There are two separate dental degrees... DDS and DMD. We have a different degree and full licensure and ability to match to any specialty. What do you need the "MD" for except pride? Be honest with yourselves.
 
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I can't believe this garbage is still getting any traction. There are two separate dental degrees... DDS and DMD. We have a different degree and full licensure and ability to match to any specialty. What do you need the "MD" for except pride? Be honest with yourselves.

My issue is that the degree communicates an incorrect specialization/ designation of function.
Ex. Doctor of Dental Surgery vs Doctor of Dental Medicinae communicates similar things

Medicinae Doctor vs Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine
Ends up sounding less like someone who studied medicine and more like studies bones and bone health. And with degrees like Doctor of Oriental Medicine or Doctor of Etc medicine around the field draws unnecessary distinction.

I mean in the end you advertise as your specialty and most patients will not care about your degree. But most patients will also probably not automatically assume that it is a physician's degree. I know that prior to SDN I didn't know that DO existed whatsoever.


Personally my favoring for MD, DO or even an alternative degree if we want to play a comparison to the non-Latin to Latin MD. Say D.M, D.O/ doctor of Medicine, Diplomat of osteopathy.
 
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Does the MBBS degree receive this much attention? I'm being facetious...

Anyways, there are a lot of good points here. I think the biggest differentiation between DO and MD (on a professional level) is the regulatory board exams and licensure. I think a big step that has been taken recently is the melding of the residency programs. This a very good thing, again on a professional level.
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/ACGME-single-accreditation-system.aspx

From the patient and general public stand point... I really think that there needs to be more educating the public on the DO practices and what we are. Honestly, I think that should come from the medical schools themselves. Maybe a community project for 1st years. One of the big reasons why I applied so heavily to DO schools and accepted a DO school was the fact that I respect the philosophy of the DO. Meaning that I think that MD's can be overly eager to prescribe chemistry and treat things aggressively with interventions (disclaimer: In most cases, that is the correct path). Yet, I do feel that MD's don't try to utilize less invasive and less chemically oriented approaches to care of more minor things. "Oh, you have a cold... let's put you on this, this, and this... even though it's a virus and really I'm only treating your symptoms. You have high blood pressure, well let's see what kind of medicine we can dig up for you instead of me telling you to go out and exercise and decrease your salt intake. Your you have headaches... well maybe we should stent that 2 mmHg gradient lesion of your IJ..." True story.

I get what serenade is saying, but I don't think we should give up the DO. You are going to find it very confusing when you get into a hospital setting and trying to figure out the differences btw all the specialties and what they do differently from one another and how similar some of them practice, but their patients know. For example: critical care intensivist, critical care surg, critical care pulmonology, and critical care anesthesiology... in the CCU, ICU, MICU, SICU, etc... there is no distinction. Maybe that's not the best way to describe it, but I hope you can follow.
 
I'm pretty sure a MBBS is converted to MD in this country. I know plenty of English doctors who got MBBS and market themselves as MD.

In practice that's not inherent to being a DO or MD. No one prescribes mess for a cold or even the usually. And when it's a bacterial infection they're all going to bleed anti-biotics.

But again, this takes me back to my first OMM presentation. They shat upon MDs so hard that I assumed they were molested by one or something. My personal doctor is a MD and he is wonderful. And as such I do find offense when people start to push this crap of MDs being all about chemistry.

And furthermore many specialities require pharma to accomplish anything. A psychotic patient needs meds and a patient with dangerously high cholesterol needs medication probably even if they start to exercise. That's why the meds are constantly checked up on.

Regarding your identity crisis. Think of PhDs. A mathematician and a Philosopher have the same degree. But what matters is their skill base, research interest, and personality. The same can just as easily be applied to DO. And personally a decease in the amount of degrees is for the best. And some good outlawing.of degrees such as with reducing Naturopathic and Oriental to not hold the words medicine or be non-doctorate degrees would be even more amazing.

But that's just my two cents. I'll go to school where ever they can place me into a residency and award me a license to practice. That to me is the most important thing.
 
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I'm pretty sure a MBBS is converted to MD in this country. I know plenty of English doctors who got MBBS and market themselves as MD.
I was merely joking as to whether they were concerned about their title as bachelors of medicine and surgery... seeing as that is undergraduate education here in the states... they have MBBS on their coats and badges (at least at the places I've been, this is true). They operate as MD's though and do allopathic residencies, fellowships, and USMLEs.
 
For the ease of it, I wish I didn't have to explain the difference to people. Once they hear the word "osteo", they assume I'm going to be a bone doctor or a physical therapist.

I LIKE that I'm going to be a DO vs MD. I'm one of the odd ones who really wants that training in OMM and hope to use it.

It's more just a nuisance to me, as in practice, pay, quality and every other aspect I'll be for all intents and purposes, a medical doctor. As in MD. Which everyone patient = medical doctor.

Change it or push through it? I don't know how long it will take for the rest of the world to know or care there are two kinds of physicians. I'd be up for something that was Medical Doctor of Osteopathy
or MD, O. Just for the ease of having the MD in the title and still maintaining the (slight) difference.
 
Every single time this comes up on SDN its the same. 33% for any change 66% against the change. Its been brought up at least every 6 months for the last 3 years. The results are identical.

Supposedly polling of students at large has turned up 25% for change and 75% against. And polling resident at large gets somewhere between 25 and 33% for change. This issue is dead as a doornail, but whenever it comes up someone on the losing side fights as if their testimony will change the status quo that has been overwhelmingly opposed to them for years over multiple surveys. And the people in the majority fight back in such a way that you would assume they werent in the overwhelming majority of people. Would you be happier if it was 10% vs 90%, cause its closer to that then it is 50-50.

original
 
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I actually think you can shorten the OPP curriculum without much loss. 1 yr is a bit extreme, but I could easily see it dropping from 2yrs to 1.5yrs. Heck, the second years here take the OPP shelf near the end of fall OMS2 anyways, so they've learned all the techniques by then anyways. Palpatory skills do take a lot of time though. Last semester I couldn't feel or find anything, and never thought I'd ever be able to. Now its completely different.

I'm not a huge fan of there being 2 degrees, simply because people aren't familiar enough with the DO degree to know that DO = physician. If the AOA and COMs spent more time and money getting the degree out there, there really wouldn't be much of an issue.

I know in my undergrad there were a total of 0 presentations from COMs about the DO degree, with the only mention of it being "more holistic" and "dealing with bones" in a presentation about medical professions from my pre-health advisor. The same was true at the school where I did my post-bac. Both were within 2 hrs of a DO school and in one of the most DO populous states. I had to go out of my way to learn about the DO degree. I think that could be fixed. Heck, my pre-health office had magazines/brochures from 30+ MD schools and a whopping 2 from DO schools (LECOM and Touro-NY).
 
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Again, your being silly here. With the merger the rate of DOs taking the usmle will only go up and I won't be surprised if it will eventually become a true requirement replacing the COMLEX ( You'll say I'm silly, but I think eventually it'll happen).
What exactly are my goals lol. Like I said, I think OMM is interesting and I like manipulatory medicine and have benefited from it.

That being said the only one agreeing is GUH. Everyone else seems to agree that it would be a fair concession to reduce OMM for the sake of adding more time for board prep. Likewise, I believe that OMM competency could be a graduate medical education competence.

Regarding professionalism, I think you may wish to read my posts and stop claiming that my dissent attitude implies that I should go MD. That's like saying that the entire SOMA should have been sent to MD school because they petitioned the AOA to remove cranial.

Like I said previously - before the merger many ACGME residencies accepted COMLEX scores - with the merger I only see more acceptances of this. I find it odd that someone who is interested in OMM wants to condense it down to one year. That's just absurd, especially for someone who has not yet in medical school to say. And for what? More board prep time? That's even more absurd. Palpatroy skills are for life. Knowing which virus is has a -ssRNA genome off the top of your head is for boards. You give yourself far too much credit. I'd say your a radical not a dissent.

I can't believe this garbage is still getting any traction. There are two separate dental degrees... DDS and DMD. We have a different degree and full licensure and ability to match to any specialty. What do you need the "MD" for except pride? Be honest with yourselves.
Bingo
 
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I actually think you can shorten the OPP curriculum without much loss. 1 yr is a bit extreme, but I could easily see it dropping from 2yrs to 1.5yrs. Heck, the second years here take the OPP shelf near the end of fall OMS2 anyways, so they've learned all the techniques by then anyways. Palpatory skills do take a lot of time though. Last semester I couldn't feel or find anything, and never thought I'd ever be able to. Now its completely different.

I'm not a huge fan of there being 2 degrees, simply because people aren't familiar enough with the DO degree to know that DO = physician. If the AOA and COMs spent more time and money getting the degree out there, there really wouldn't be much of an issue.

I know in my undergrad there were a total of 0 presentations from COMs about the DO degree, with the only mention of it being "more holistic" and "dealing with bones" in a presentation about medical professions from my pre-health advisor. The same was true at the school where I did my post-bac. Both were within 2 hrs of a DO school and in one of the most DO populous states. I had to go out of my way to learn about the DO degree. I think that could be fixed. Heck, my pre-health office had magazines/brochures from 30+ MD schools and a whopping 2 from DO schools (LECOM and Touro-NY).

Even if you think this is an issue (which I don't) - it takes less than 5 minutes to explain to patient what a DO is. In my experience no doctor says "Hello I'm Jwalker MD." Rather they say "Hello I'm Jwalker the cardiologist".
 
Like I said previously - before the merger many ACGME residencies accepted COMLEX scores - with the merger I only see more acceptances of this. I find it odd that someone who is interested in OMM wants to condense it down to one year. That's just absurd, especially for someone who has not yet in medical school to say. And for what? More board prep time? That's even more absurd. Palpatroy skills are for life. Knowing which virus is has a -ssRNA genome off the top of your head is for boards. You give yourself far too much credit. I'd say your a radical not a dissent.


Bingo


And what residency you can get into is also for life. Checkmate.


Btw I legit feel like Benson right now.
 
Even if you think this is an issue (which I don't) - it takes less than 5 minutes to explain to patient what a DO is. In my experience no doctor says "Hello I'm Jwalker MD." Rather they say "Hello I'm Jwalker the cardiologist".

I imagine its less of an issue in/after residency. Everytime I mention College of Osteopathic Medicine or DO, I have to explain it to anyone I'm talking to. Again, this is strange considering I live in one of the most DO populous states. I'm just surprised I got more presentations from NP and Pharmacy schools (and even Carib MD schools) at my undergrad than DO schools. Maybe its something that will change with more DOs being around.

Also, don't get me wrong, its not some huge deal to me, but it sure would be convenient if I didn't hear "oh you're going to be a bone doctor" or "what's that" everytime I say the name of my school. It probably doesn't help that its built into the name of my school, and I can't say, Oh I go to med school at X University.

Anyways, if increased advertising/PR or simply more graduates make it clear that DO & MD = physicians the way DDS & DMD = dentists, that might solve the issue of people constantly wanting to change the degree.
 
And what residency you can get into is also for life. Checkmate.

Which is why you plan ahead. If you're going for a competitive residency, then study hard and kill boards. Plenty of DOs kill the step 1 in the current format/study time. I guess you're trying to get extra help because you think you'll need it?
 
Which is why you plan ahead. If you're going for a competitive residency, then study hard and kill boards. Plenty of DOs kill the step 1 in the current format/study time. I guess you're trying to get extra help because you think you'll need it?

No because the average DO who takes it scores below the average which includes Caribbean students...

Personally my interests are in IM, PM&R, and Psych. I legit just need a passing score to get where I want. But I believe in progressing the profession and moving forward.

You're complacent and that's all there is too it. Id rather we change the curriculum raise the scores, get more DOs into better residencies and more specialties and let them do what they want instead of forcing them into FM. I'm simply advocating for the betterment of options for the student which is much more important than the upholding of the white hairs on At. Still's head.
 
No because the average DO who takes it scores below the average which includes Caribbean students...

Personally my interests are in IM, PM&R, and Psych. I legit just need a passing score to get where I want. But I believe in progressing the profession and moving forward.

You're complacent and that's all there is too it. Id rather we change the curriculum raise the scores, get more DOs into better residencies and more specialties and let them do what they want instead of forcing them into FM. I'm simply advocating for the betterment of options for the student which is much more important than the upholding of the white hairs on At. Still's head.

I know people who failed the comlex and matched into mid tier ACGME psych programs. Regardless, I believe you have an aberrant point of view regarding the whole residency process. What exactly is a "better" residency? Not everyone wants to be a neurosurgeon. More specialty matches does NOT mean a school is better. And certainly no one is forced into any practice of medicine without their own say. Your definition of progression does not equal everyone's definition of progression, especially not DO schools. Osteopathic schools place an emphasis on primary care. That does not mean they aren't progressed/are stuck in the stone ages. It's a vital position that many DO schools state in their mission statements is their sole purpose. Every student knows this before matriculating. There should be no surprises. As for raising scores? It's not really any DO schools job to make sure a student does well on an optional test. Their focus is on their own boards. I don't really know how you can fault the school for that. I honestly doubt you would have problems matching most places if you ace the comlex.
 
Not at all my point, I simply believe that many people end up in their 3rd year in a position that relegates them to FM or low tier IM. It's simply the truth of the matter, and I would rather want people who truly love FM doing that than people who feel like it's their only option. As such I want to see board scores go up so that people have both the opportunity to train in the field of their choosing and in good programs.
SOME DO schools place emphasis. CCOM & KCUMB for example do not. And even those who do have well over 50% specializing, but again, better board scores also means matching at higher ranked programs as well. SO obviously IM @ X University hospital > IM @ Community Clinc of Y.
Again, a happy well adjusted doctor is better than a grouchy one that doesn't like seeing people.

And again, it's optional but everyone here who wants anything relatively competitively ranked recommends taking the USMLE. Why put yourself at a disadvantage when you may be able to aim high in your field. And personally I think the COMLEX will eventually be phased out for standardized USMLE ( And judging off of the DO students who bemoan it for asking questions like when did ATSTILL throw the banner of osteopathy to the wind and poorly structure questions it may be for the best).

The curriculum is arguably important in training them for the boards. I know my MD friends spend all of second year with the mindset of board prep where as the DO students spend more time in school on OMM and less on board prep. Personally it's kinda one of the reasons I kinda liked the curriculum at MUCOM they have a focus on board prep the second year.
 
Not at all my point, I simply believe that many people end up in their 3rd year in a position that relegates them to FM or low tier IM. It's simply the truth of the matter, and I would rather want people who truly love FM doing that than people who feel like it's their only option. As such I want to see board scores go up so that people have both the opportunity to train in the field of their choosing and in good programs.
SOME DO schools place emphasis. CCOM & KCUMB for example do not. And even those who do have well over 50% specializing, but again, better board scores also means matching at higher ranked programs as well. SO obviously IM @ X University hospital > IM @ Community Clinc of Y.
Again, a happy well adjusted doctor is better than a grouchy one that doesn't like seeing people.

And again, it's optional but everyone here who wants anything relatively competitively ranked recommends taking the USMLE. Why put yourself at a disadvantage when you may be able to aim high in your field. And personally I think the COMLEX will eventually be phased out for standardized USMLE ( And judging off of the DO students who bemoan it for asking questions like when did ATSTILL throw the banner of osteopathy to the wind and poorly structure questions it may be for the best).

The curriculum is arguably important in training them for the boards. I know my MD friends spend all of second year with the mindset of board prep where as the DO students spend more time in school on OMM and less on board prep. Personally it's kinda one of the reasons I kinda liked the curriculum at MUCOM they have a focus on board prep the second year.


1. Why do you believe that many people end up in their 3rd year in a position that relegates them to FM or low tier IM?

2. Your statement "better board scores also means matching at higher ranked programs as well." I mean true, better board scores mean that students have more options. But keep in mind that location is also an important factor in where students pick their rankings. For example, if a Chicago program is #3 in XYZ and New Jersey it is #15 in ranking, and the student wants to stay in NJ and likes the resources of the NJ program, even though Chicago is ranked higher, chances are the student will end up in NJ where he/she feels its a better fit. Of course, if you look at the match list, you'll see he/she matched in NJ which is a mid-tier program and only look at the fact that its mid-tier, NOT considering WHY that person matched there. So it'll be quick to judge the person (and maybe even the program) as being fostered to be a not-so-great applicant.

3. I do agree that taking the USMLE is highly encouraged but many students either don't want to be bothered, fear the exam, or are only attempting DO residencies. There are many factors why they choose not to take the USMLE, some reasons are poor, but some are logical.

4. Out of all the DO students I've spoken to, not one person has told me that OMM has taken over their board prep time. True, OMM is like what? 3 hours a week not including at-home study time? I do not believe that OMM, a 3 credit course could possibly mean the be-all/end-all for board prep time.
- I'd like to add that there are various types of students in DO school but the ratio tends to favor a higher proportion of mid-to-low competitive students (generally)--of course based on their admissions stats as we all see with most schools. Those who are great students will manage their time effectively and include board prep as necessary without letting OMM overwhelm them. Others will simply take it as it comes and hope for the best. It's just the way things are. But I do not believe most students spend the majority of time on OMM vs board prep. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to dwell on a 3 credit course when they have tons of other basic science to master. (and if they let OMM affect their board score, they shouldn't have been in osteopathic medical schools to begin with).
 
Personally my interests are in IM, PM&R, and Psych. I legit just need a passing score to get where I want. But I believe in progressing the profession and moving forward.
I wouldn't bank on a passing score getting you where you want to be. I know several ppl who had better than average and still didn't match IM or PM&R. Even Family Medicine, which people are "relegated to" was a lot more competitive this match.
 
MD, DO degree I would advocate for. But WTH is MDO?
 
...(And judging off of the DO students who bemoan it for asking questions like when did ATSTILL throw the banner of osteopathy to the wind and poorly structure questions it may be for the best)...

Serenade, get it right before matriculation: Its "flung to the breeze the banner of osteopathy" - 1874 (June 22nd).
 
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