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new special pay plan for general dentists

Discussion in 'Military Dentistry' started by trickybenny, 03.30.11.


  1. Thanks to Crack the NBDE
  1. trickybenny

    trickybenny Junior Member

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    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    I have copied an email that was sent out to a classmate of mine that is doing the Navy HPSP.

    Dear Dental Class of 2011,

    The new special pays plan for General Dentists is "expected" to be
    officially announced this summer.
    The Annual Special Pay (ASP) and the Variable Special Pay (VSP) will be
    consolidated to a new special pay
    called Incentive Pay (IP). This IP will be worth $20,000 dollars. The Key
    thing for you to know is that this
    IP is contingent upon you having a state license to practice in order to be
    eligible. Why else should you have
    a state license? A state license enables more autonomy.

    Please take the opportunity to challenge a state license Board before you
    graduate.
    This is the best time to challenge a Board as your school has the resources
    to help mitigate
    any stressors that may arise when taking a State Licensing Board.

    If you have specific questions or need additional information, contact: CAPT
    -------- USN; Career Plans Officer,
  2. Nat426

    Nat426

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    Is the amount the same as the other pay's when you combine them?
  3. jim85213

    jim85213

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    It looks to me like it's more but I keep getting conflicting information.
  4. cnoordma

    cnoordma

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    initially it will be a little more but after 3 years it will be about the same. Currently ASP and VSP increase with years of service. There are charts available if you search around. In general after 3 years of service you bonuses are around 20K
  5. jim85213

    jim85213

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    Oh I see. So for someone like me graduating in June and starting with zero years in service, it will be beneficial for the first three years but after three years it will be the same as it would have been without IP...is that correct?
  6. trickybenny

    trickybenny Junior Member

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    I think that's correct. My understanding is that we used to get 10,000 lump sum and 250 special pay each month which makes it 13K/year special pay right out of school. This new pay will bump us up to 20K special pay each year. nice increase for 1st 3 years
  7. natedizzle

    natedizzle Member

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    Just Navy or all branches?
  8. Matchstikmatt

    Matchstikmatt

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    I'm an HPSP student graduating in June. I signed up for the WREBs and have a few questions. Also, I've been commissioned in Okinawa for the end of the summer after ODS (not doing a residency):

    1. Should I definitely take boards (I do plan on practicing in CA at some point).
    2. Is the 2200$ WREB fee reimbursable?
    3. Will I be eligible for the special pay during the 3 years payback I owe?

    Thanks!
  9. jim85213

    jim85213

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    1. If you want to take advantage of the $20,000 being offered as incentive pay (IP).
    2. No WREB is not reimbursable.
    3. Since ASP and VSP are being consolidated into IP, you won't be eligible unless you pass WREB and obtain a license.
  10. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    All special pays are DoD wide
  11. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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    Even if the new pay is "announced" this summer, what will that mean? Will that mean the bonus is ready to take advantage of immediately? Will the announcement say the bonus will be ready starting fiscal year 2012? or Fiscal year 2013? I guess we wait.
  12. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    Most items would take effect at the beginning of the fiscal year (1 Oct). They usually announce them a few months early to allow everyone to gear up for the transition.
  13. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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    bump.

    Someone's gotta know more details about this. Surely this bonus will be even greater for those with higher time in service. So far, we're just hearing about those with zero years service. Anyone?
  14. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    The details haven't been released to everyone yet. I'm sure some things are being worked. The premise going in was that no one would lose money. No guarantees that the amounts will go up.

    Got more info from special pays. All deatails haven't been worked out yet. Some options may exist for those already in. It won't make a difference in $ amount, but may make a difference in how $$ is paid. I hear the details may be solid by July.
    Last edited: 05.02.11
  15. ALTOSS

    ALTOSS A Soldier Medic

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    well i understand if you take that special pay, your ADSO increases by 1 year, to be served concurrently with the HPSP obligation. since you'd get your license much later than the graduation date and subsequently first day of HPSP ADSO payback (in october or november), it seems that for 4 yr HPSP, i'd be serving definitely longer than 4 years if i take the special pay in the 4th year by 3-4 months due to overlap. is this correct, then?
  16. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    It always works this way. However, remember its a one year payback served concurrently. It won't affect your total time until you are in your last year.

    Let me give you a little run down on how it works.

    You cannot sign up for VSP or ASP at COT. You must do this at your first base. It takes between 1 and 2 months to get VSP started (You will get backpay). Once at your first base you will turn in your ASP contract and Credentials office will verify you are eligible and then it starts the routing process. If you start this in Aug, it could be Sep or Oct before you see the ASP. You do incur a 1 year ADSO for the ASP. However it is served concurrently (at the same time) as your HPSP ADSO.

    So, your ASP will be backdated to the date you sign the contract. So Let's say you sign the contract on 31 Aug. Your ADSO for the ASP will start 31 Aug and run through 30 Aug of the next year. If you entered active duty on 1 May, it will not add any time to your service until your last year (since it is signed year to year). You see, you will be paying off the extra 3 months of the contract along with the 2nd year of HPSP time. In the end if you take the ASP each year, it will maybe add 3-4 months to your ADSO overall. If you take the ASP your last year, it will extend your sepaeration date from may to Aug. If you don't take it, you can still get out in May. Big thing to ask yourself is the $$ worth the extra month or two in your last year.
  17. Hedgy

    Hedgy

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    Here is a link for current special pays: http://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/special-pay/special-military-pay-for-medical-officers for you to compare.

    Or just go to military.com and look up military pay and work your way to the medical officer special pays.

    At $20k to start, this is good, but after 8 years you lose money unless they increase the amount.

    They've been saying they'd increase pays for years and have only made minor changes to ASP. I wouldn't count on this with the economy where it is. It may be approved, but if not appropriated, you will not get it.
  18. ALTOSS

    ALTOSS A Soldier Medic

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    thanks for the rundown AFDDS. you're correct. i just wanted to point out that previously you'd lose out only on the ASP portion of the bonus by a few months, but now that the military has the combined pay coincided with the license date, you'd miss out more (i'd say around 5k) if you are definitely certain you'd get out asap and not take the bonus in the beginning of the 4th yr. however, for someone who's determined to get out, a few k in exchange for getting out months early may sound like a fair trade.

    also, 1 more Q: does the ADSO start upon graduation or active duty, or worse yet, active duty as a dentist? i finished my basic b/f dental school, so technically i could start working in june. others, however, would start their basic in mid-jun, start working in aug. would our ADSO up on the same date?

    thank you in advance!
    Last edited: 05.03.11
  19. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    You will start your payback as soon as you EAD (Enter Active Duty). If you come on board in June, you will start your payback then. Someone that has to go to COT, won't EAD until they get to COT.
  20. Roto Picante

    Roto Picante Roto

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    How does pay work from the day you graduate from Dental School until you EAD?

    I am guessing there generally is some sort of gap for most people. For example I graduate some time in mid May and am assuming I wont report for duty at my first base until June or July sometime.

    Also, how would pay work for someone who goes from Dental School to an AEGD assuming they have already attended COT?

    AEGD programs don't start until later in the summer so is the time in between a vacation or do you have to report earlier than the start of the AEGD?
  21. krmower

    krmower

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    Your pay begins on the first day you report for duty. So if you have already done your OBLC or COT and you don't have to report until September - you have the choice of reporting right away following graduation, or playing around during the summer before reporting - your orders will give you the date you have to report by - you can always report earlier.

    Your DASP doesn't kick in until you have a license, so if you wait until May to take your boards and you apply with a state that takes a long time to issue a license, you can't get your DASP to kick in until your license has been received.
  22. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    In the AF, you cannot enter active duty (EAD) until just before your AEGD begins. However, if you graduate in May and do not need to go to COT, you have choices. You can wait to report until your report no later than date (RNLTD) or you can petition AFPC to EAD early.

    As krmower noted above, you will not start getting paid until you EAD. Several people each year want to have 3 months off, but realize they don't have any $$ to fund the vacation. It's no guarantee you can EAD early, but you can ask. (As far as I know, no one has ever been denied their request to EAD early)
  23. ALTOSS

    ALTOSS A Soldier Medic

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    a quick q: how early can you show up? i thought it was 60 days b/f the scheduled date. could it be earlier than that? and also, if you do 1 or 2 yr aegd, would you report to the training location? thank you!
  24. Roto Picante

    Roto Picante Roto

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    Thanks for your responses. Couple other quick questions. Is it looked down upon to wait up until your EAD date to start work when there is a couple months break? Would colleagues and superiors judge someone as slothful to wait that long? Would it be beneficial to one's career in the military, other than the income earned during that extra time, to start earlier than their EAD date?
  25. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    No negatives from our view point. Main thing it does is allow you to start receiving a check.
  26. krmower

    krmower

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    Usually at least 60 days - you could probably call HRC and request an earlier date - remember that the sooner you start - the sooner you can get out.

    You would go to the location where you were going to do your AEGD or other program if you come in early and don't have to do OBLC. If you have to do OBLC you can not report early.

    So when you finally decide to get out it can be at the beginning of summer rather than at the end.
  27. ARguy

    ARguy Member

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    So does this mean the pay will not increase to $20k as the original email stated?
  28. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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    It's here! Kind of... Details below

    http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/DTM-11-005.pdf

    The below note was also given with the announcement.

    "Recently, the Implementation of Special Pays for General Dentistry DTM was signed by Health Affairs. That is GREAT news for general dentists. HOWEVER, A NAVADMIN MUST BE APPROVED BY NAVY BEFORE IMPLEMENTATION. PLEASE DO NOT HAVE YOUR OFFICERS CALL SPECIAL PAYS OR ATTEMPT TO ASK FOR SPECIAL PAYS UNTIL THE NAVADMIN IS RELEASED!!! The timeline for implementation is likely another 6 weeks away. For those beginning a residency on July 1st it is critical they watch the timeline as they must sign a contract before the start of the residency."
    Last edited: 05.07.11
  29. Nat426

    Nat426

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    "Subject to acceptance by the Secretary of the Military Department concerned, a General Dentist must be currently credentialed and privileged at a military treatment facility as a General Dentist."

    Does this paragraph mean you would be required to complete your credentialing tour before you could receive the IP?
  30. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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    Page 4, Paragraph 2 b, states that IP contracts can begin 60 days from the date of the DTM, meaning this should be able to start by 28JUN2011.

    I'm told the IP is supposed to replace the ASP and VSP, but I can't find anywhere that it says this. Page 1, Reference b refers us to the US Code Title 37, Section 335. It has some clauses on "Consolidation of Special Pay" but I can't find any details.

    Why would the consolidation of ASP/VSP to the IP only occur for general dentists? If the IP is indeed a consolidation of the ASP/VSP only for GP's, the result will be a $7K increase for the first three years, but just $1K for years 3-8 and then a loss for years beyond 8. Essentially this change would provide an incentive to recruit new general dentists by loading more $ up front but then provide incentive for them to specialize by year eight.

    Could the IP actually be in addition to the ASP and VSP?
    Last edited: 05.08.11
  31. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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    Page 5, paragraph 2 e, states that the effective date of the IP will be 3 months from completion of the qualified training. I didn't do a credentialing tour because I did the AEGD, but my experience was that credentialing occurred very rapidly, certainly in less than three months. But this instruction stipulates that you have to wait at least three months before you can get it.

    If this interpretation is correct, it means that new GP's wanting to get out after their ADO ends will have to make a decision their last year if they want to forfeit their IP to get out on time or extend their service by three months to be able to complete the full year service contract required with each IP.
    Last edited: 05.06.12
  32. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    With the way (SOME OF) the government is trying to slash spending. I think it's doubtful.
  33. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    I think it's important to note that none of this is in stone yet. I've talked to our special pays office and it just so happens our Corps Director handles all special pays for the AFMS. The details have not been completley worked out, and not everything has been discussed yet.

    The driving force behind all this was to come up with fewer catagories of special pays, but no one would lose money. The memo mentioned above doesn't have all the details in it. Because as it stands, many would lose money. IP is set to replace ASP and VSP, but no mention of board certification pay or different tiers for RB was noted, but it will happen.

    Until all the details are released, and I'm being told that may be in July now, no one can say for sure what the pays will look like.
  34. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    Yes
  35. jim85213

    jim85213

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    I'm still confused. I know the complete details aren't out yet but based on what we know so far, does this mean that you cannot get the bonus until the completion of your GPR/AEGD? I would assume you are not "credentialed" until after your program is complete.
  36. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    No. This is the info for anyone that has not had any additional training or has only had a PGY-1 program. The qualifying training for this portion is dental school. Even though you aren't credentialed in an AEGD, in the traditional sense, you will fill out some forms for them.
  37. Smills91

    Smills91 Defeat Obamunism!

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    What is the VSP and ASP usually set at annually?
  38. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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  39. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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    -
    Last edited: 05.11.11
  40. ARguy

    ARguy Member

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    Tooth, why'd you take that info down?
  41. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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    I felt uncomfortable paraphrasing an Admiral. I'll just post her info again.

    Attached Files:

  42. ARguy

    ARguy Member

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    I understand.

    I can see where signing up for this plan would be a bad move. Even if you never plan to specialize it doesn't make sense. For example: If you take the ASP and VSP option, you may initially only net 13k instead of 20k but your ceiling is higher. Why would I limit myself to 20k per year in special pay when I will eventually be making as much as 27k? Also, by taking the RB (25k) instead of training to "B" status and getting the ACP DOMRB of 35k causes you to lose 10k more per year! None of this makes any sense to me. Especially since we were told nobody would lose money. It sounds to me like if you switch to this plan you're guaranteed to lose money.
  43. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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    Exactly, this is a bureaucratic plan designed to make military budget cuts. It is a carrot on a stick to swindle you out of your current pay schedule for a measly $7K for just three years.

    It reminds me of the REDUX bonus where they try to SUCKER us into loosing our COLA in retirement for a $30,000 one time bonus.

    I really hope we have the option to keep the current pay schedule. I thought, at first, that we wouldn't get a choice.


    Additionally, many people are thinking they'll get out in a few years anyway, so why not take the money? Well, let me remind everyone that the IP is not payable until 3 months after you graduate dental school. Since each IP bonus requires a new concurrent year of AD upon signing, new docs will be forced to extend their ADO by three months if they want to get an IP bonus their last year. If they want to get out on time, they'll have to pay back the $20K. That takes away nearly all gains. Think of how many people will want to specialize the summer they get out. Many will be forced to give up the IP in order to start their programs on time.

    Then, a good portion of people who thought they "knew" they were getting out will change their minds. They will like the military or have a family member get sick and will be obligated to stay in for the healthcare. These people will be stuck with this new pay system for 20 to 30 years. They will have no incentive to specialize because they will never see a pay increase. They would actually loose their RB for the time they have to pay back for specializing and then return to the general dentist RB system they signed up for when they had zero years service.

    Booooo!
    Last edited: 05.12.11
  44. xhamburgersamx

    xhamburgersamx

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    can you just not accept the 20k your last year of payback? 3 more months of working is probably worth 20K however.
  45. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    The information that has been released is for General Dentists with no additional training and/or those with an AEGD-1 only. The specialist plans have not been released, so there is no way of knowing how we will be affected. I do know this...Historically 65-85% of young military dentists separate at their first decision point (year 4). The numbers have gotten better lately. I also know the majority of those that do stay in complete some sort of training that will get them more $$ in the form of a RB. Now, General Dentists that never could get a RB will be able to get one and will end up making $12K more if they do.

    Bottom line, the military isn't for everyone. Pay plans aren't meant to please everyone. The bonus system has a purpose. Retention bonsues are for retaining you.
    Last edited: 05.16.11
  46. Krollmi

    Krollmi

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    Any word on if this will affect the Army, and if so, when? I know these things are usually DoD wide but my recruiter has not even heard of this new plan. Any insight someone could provide me would be greatly appreciated.
  47. Tooth

    Tooth Ortho Gonnabe

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    Here is a quote from the Chief of the Naval Dental Corps. I posted this info a few posts up with an attachment. Read it over. I've highlighted a point I believe you may have missed.

    Once a member converts to the new consolidated special pays program they cannot go back to the old special pays program. However, by 2014 we are hoping that the consolidated pay program for specialists will be in effect so it should not be an issue for new specialists. If there was no new consolidated pay program for specialists in effect, say in 2015, a General Dentist who took an RB this summer, began and completed a residency, could not revert back to the old pay system to take a DOMRB under the old system. However, the shortest residency is 2 years with a 2 year payback so no general dentist currently entering training (if the NAVADMIN comes out before JULY/AUG and they sign up) should want to take a specialty RB before July 2015 in any case. We are hoping 4 years from now the consolidated pay program for specialists is done with new RB rates that equal or exceed that of the present DORMB but of course, that timeline is not guaranteed (but very likely).
  48. krmower

    krmower

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    All pay is the same tri-service. All services must agree on the same funding before it goes out and is implemented.
  49. ARguy

    ARguy Member

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    "The information that has been released is for General Dentists with no additional training or with and AEGD-1."

    AFDDS, this statement is a little unclear to me. Are you saying that this new info does NOT apply to those who have completed an AEGD-1?
  50. AFDDS

    AFDDS

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    Air Force SDN 5+ Year Member
    It applies only to those with an AEGD-1 and/or those without any additional training beyond dental school.

    I should expand on this just a little as well. In this post the AEGD-1 is referring to a PGY-1 (1st post graduate year) program whether it be an AEGD or GPR. The ACP program, that no longer exists in the AF is a 1-year program for dentists that have been practicing and therefore have more experience. The C-B preceptorship requires some extra training and some experience in order to complete. The ACP may make a comeback in the AF. Not sure if the Navy still has their ACP programs or not.
    Last edited: 05.16.11

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