New to the world of osteopathic medicine - guide me!

[BAS04yall]

Okay I'm going to throw out a slew of questions. Thanks for answering some/all/whichever ones you want.

1) I have an F, D, and C on my transcript. GPA is 3.4 though. Do I need grade replacement?

2) I want to be a neurosurgeon or anesthesiologist. Will I be limited for these with a DO degree? And please give me honest answers. I am ready for the brutal truth.

3) Are there certain areas of the United States that have more DO bias? I want to apply to places (and hopefully get jobs in those surrounding area) that don't have this much bias. I am from the deep south which is naturally very conservative so my inclination is that DOs would fare better in liberal places.

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[Beargryllz]

Retake the D and F, but 3.4 is already competitive

Neurosurgery and anesthesia residencies are already around for DOs, but apparently DO and MD programs are merging. Or maybe they aren't merging. I hear both claims 10 times/day on these forums.

Area is irrelevant. You apply broadly if you want to be a physician and take what you can get. I'm starting a DO program in the deep south this year.

 

[BAS04yall]

Ok thanks. If i retake those classes this summer, I'd apply by beginning of Sept. Will that be fine?

 

[DoctorKrieger]

1) Depends. What's your sGPA? What classes did you get the F and D in? The 3.4 is fine for DO but if the F/D were in a prereq, you're going to need to retake.

2) Focus on getting into school for now, it's much too early to be set on a specialty. If you still want NS, it will most assuredly have to be through an AOA residency, but with the merger who knows--either way (MD or DO) NS is very competitive so be sure you can be happy in another specialty. Gas is very doable as a DO, even in many ACGME programs.

3) Regional bias isn't much of an issue to be concerned about, DOs have full practice rights in every state. There are now several DO schools in the south.

 

[BAS04yall]

1) Depends. What's your sGPA? What classes did you get the F and D in? The 3.4 is fine for DO but if the F/D were in a prereq, you're going to need to retake.

2) Focus on getting into school for now, it's much too early to be set on a specialty. If you still want NS, it will most assuredly have to be through an AOA residency, but with the merger who knows--either way (MD or DO) NS is very competitive so be sure you can be happy in another specialty. Gas is very doable as a DO, even in many ACGME programs.

3) Regional bias isn't much of an issue to be concerned about, DOs have full practice rights in every state. There are now several DO schools in the south.

sGPA around the same. For the sake of anonymity, I'm not going to say which classes exactly but they were upper level science classes (not pre-reqs). The C was in a pre-req though.

How come people advise to not be set on a speciality too early on? I want to make plans early. I'm not trying to be rude or anything i promise, just wondering.

 

[cliquesh]

This year there will be 5153 osteopathic graduates. 16 of them matched AOA neurosurgery and 3 matched acgme neurosurgery. 30 matched AOA anesthesia and 177 matched acgme anesthesia.

Anesthesia and neurosurgery are way different and they are unlikely to attract the same types of people.

 

[BAS04yall]

This year there are 5153 osteopathic graduates. 16 of them matched AOA neurosurgery and 1 matched acgme neurosurgery. 30 matched AOA anesthesia and 177 matched acgme anesthesia.

Anesthesia and neurosurgery are way different and they are unlikely to attract the same types of people.

Okay, a couple more questions:

1) what board scores do you need to match AOA NS? Not even going to ask about acgme because I bet it is 270+

2) what board scores do you need to match AOA anesth? acgme anesth?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Only one I will comment on is #2. Definitely just worry about getting in. You will find out 3rd and 4th year what you want to do. But there are DOs in every specialty except maybe Rad Onc (that I know of).

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Okay, a couple more questions:

1) what board scores do you need to match AOA NS? Not even going to ask about acgme because I bet it is 270+

2) what board scores do you need to match AOA anesth? acgme anesth?

Woah there fella, have you even taken your MCAT? For real, cant stress it enough that you have no clue until you are actually in there. You have roughly the same chance of doing the same thing even if you go DO route. If you are lazy, you will be lazy in MD or DO. If you are hard working and good at finding connections with people, you will have luck at MD or DO, it doesnt matter.

No one knows the future competition, especially with the GME unified match that will be starting in roughly 2016.

 

[cliquesh]

The average Comlex score is a 500. According to the 2012 Osteopathic graduate medical education report the average score for anesthesia is a 520 and a 580 for neurosurgery. Keep in mind that there were 1.8 applicants for every anesthesia spot and 2.5 applicants for every AOA neurosurgery spot.

A usmle score of 230 is good enough to match acgme anesthesia somewhere decent.

 

[orangeman25]

Okay, a couple more questions:

1) what board scores do you need to match AOA NS? Not even going to ask about acgme because I bet it is 270+

2) what board scores do you need to match AOA anesth? acgme anesth?

Calm down.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

sGPA around the same. For the sake of anonymity, I'm not going to say which classes exactly but they were upper level science classes (not pre-reqs). The C was in a pre-req though.

How come people advise to not be set on a speciality too early on? I want to make plans early. I'm not trying to be rude or anything i promise, just wondering.

The C is nothing to worry about with a 3.4. You may still consider retaking the F and D, but since they're not prereqs and your gpa is still competitive I don't know how much it would affect your app.

Med school is a long process and each specialty is different, with varying competitive stats (step 1 score), lifestyles, and personality types. It's alright to have an idea what you want to go into as you enter school, but if you're not flexible in that you may be setting yourself up for disappointment. You get the best idea of what specialty is a good match for you during rotations (which come after step 1 so you also have an idea what you're competitive for).

 

[BAS04yall]

Calm down.

Wow dont be rude. I'm just wondering because it helps knowing these things in advance.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Only one I will comment on is #2. Definitely just worry about getting in. You will find out 3rd and 4th year what you want to do. But there are DOs in every specialty except maybe Rad Onc (that I know of).

Scratch that...
http://www.ariahealth.org/Programs-and-Services/Radiation-Oncology-Radiosurgery/Scot-Fisher-DO

 

[orangeman25]

Wow dont be rude. I'm just wondering because it helps knowing these things in advance.

I wasn't trying to be rude. Simply making the point that you should not worry about these things. I understand you are trying to "plan" ahead, but that's not how it works. Plan on getting into medical school, and if anything more, on doing well in your pre-clinical years.

I am only giving this advice as a fellow pre-med because neuroticism and paranoia about matching into your desired speciality will tear you apart. Play it cool, enjoy life, and you will succeed in whatever you want. Good luck.

 

[cliquesh]

Scratch that...
http://www.ariahealth.org/Programs-and-Services/Radiation-Oncology-Radiosurgery/Scot-Fisher-DO

4 DOs matched rad/onc this year.

 

[Goro]

Since you say these were in "upper level" science courses, my answer is yes, retake them. You do not want AdComs worrying about whether you can handle medical school. Do you have a downward trend in your GPA? Ups and downs?
1) I have an F, D, and C on my transcript. GPA is 3.4 though. Do I need grade replacement?

No and no. But worry about getting into medical school before worrying about specialties.

2) I want to be a neurosurgeon or anesthesiologist. Will I be limited for these with a DO degree? And please give me honest answers. I am ready for the brutal truth.

No, but there are areas that are more DO friendly, especially the midwest and the east coast. There are DO schools in every state of the old Confederacy except AR, but NYCOM is building a branch campus there, so I can't forsee bias as an issue. Most patients won't know the differnence anyway...they certianly won't care what med school you went to.

3) Are there certain areas of the United States that have more DO bias? I want to apply to places (and hopefully get jobs in those surrounding area) that don't have this much bias. I am from the deep south which is naturally very conservative so my inclination is that DOs would fare better in liberal places.[/QUOTE]

 

[BAS04yall]

Woah there fella, have you even taken your MCAT? For real, cant stress it enough that you have no clue until you are actually in there. You have roughly the same chance of doing the same thing even if you go DO route. If you are lazy, you will be lazy in MD or DO. If you are hard working and good at finding connections with people, you will have luck at MD or DO, it doesnt matter.

No one knows the future competition, especially with the GME unified match that will be starting in roughly 2016.

I heard MCAT isn't even like the boards. MCAT sucked.

But yeah, maybe it isn't worth worrying about

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

4 DOs matched rad/onc this year.

ballers, the whole lot of them

lets just throw this guy in here too... he fly fishes on the side... #ballerstatus
http://www.atlantaradiationoncology.com/dr-fred-schwaibold.php

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I heard MCAT isn't even like the boards. MCAT sucked.

But yeah, maybe it isn't worth worrying about

what I am getting at is do you even have the stats and requirements to get into medical school? Take it one step at a time. If you want it bad enough you will be able to get any specialty you want. But first you must get in...

 

[BAS04yall]

what I am getting at is do you even have the stats and requirements to get into medical school? Take it one step at a time. If you want it bad enough you will be able to get any specialty you want. But first you must get in...

Yea ive done volunteering, research, have had clinical jobs. My GPA is 3.4 which is not great but definitely competitive

 

[KyleV]

sGPA around the same. For the sake of anonymity, I'm not going to say which classes exactly but they were upper level science classes (not pre-reqs). The C was in a pre-req though.

How come people advise to not be set on a speciality too early on? I want to make plans early. I'm not trying to be rude or anything i promise, just wondering.

A quick anecdote. Before I switched my major, I was a nursing major who wanted to go into a very specific area of nursing, got into a program, and soon realized it wasn't what I wanted to do with my life. Why? My focus was way too centered on one type of nursing. This applies to medicine too, even more so considering the education path to become a doctor. There are so many factors that are going to change your direction in medicine. It's good to plan ahead and have an idea, but don't set it in stone, it's likely to change.

 

[BAS04yall]

Since you say these were in "upper level" science courses, my answer is yes, retake them. You do not want AdComs worrying about whether you can handle medical school. Do you have a downward trend in your GPA? Ups and downs?
1) I have an F, D, and C on my transcript. GPA is 3.4 though. Do I need grade replacement?

No and no. But worry about getting into medical school before worrying about specialties.

2) I want to be a neurosurgeon or anesthesiologist. Will I be limited for these with a DO degree? And please give me honest answers. I am ready for the brutal truth.

No, but there are areas that are more DO friendly, especially the midwest and the east coast. There are DO schools in every state of the old Confederacy except AR, but NYCOM is building a branch campus there, so I can't forsee bias as an issue. Most patients won't know the differnence anyway...they certianly won't care what med school you went to.

3) Are there certain areas of the United States that have more DO bias? I want to apply to places (and hopefully get jobs in those surrounding area) that don't have this much bias. I am from the deep south which is naturally very conservative so my inclination is that DOs would fare better in liberal places.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah I have UPS and DOWNs in my GPA. First year was 3.0, second year was 3.6, third year was 2.9, fourth year was 3.9. No real trend.
And unfortunately the F, D, and C all came in my third year.

 

[BAS04yall]

The average Comlex score is a 500. According to the 2012 Osteopathic graduate medical education report the average score for anesthesia is a 520 and a 580 for neurosurgery. Keep in mind that there were 1.8 applicants for every anesthesia spot and 2.5 applicants for every AOA neurosurgery spot.

A usmle score of 230 is good enough to match acgme anesthesia somewhere decent.

Thank you. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get a 580 on the COMPLEX and a 230 on usmle? Is it comparable to getting a 30 on the MCAT?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Yea ive done volunteering, research, have had clinical jobs. My GPA is 3.4 which is not great but definitely competitive

so how bout that MCAT?....
It goes like this:
40% of your app is gpa
40% of your app is MCAT
20% of your app is everything else

This is roughly the gauge - for both MD and DO. Unless you have some ridiculous life experience or something and/or you have connections or a big checkbook.

 

[NontradCA]

I think if you want to be a Neurosurgeon, then you shouldn't go to DO school. I think the odds are stacked against you in this instance, because you will have to be a top performer to match *anywhere*, and even then it's a stretch. You can be above average and match ACGME Neurosurgery coming from an MD school. Most programs won't look at you for the simple fact that you're a DO student. So yea, I'd say that limits you. If you only have a C, D, and F, then you can raise your GPA some more and or retake some courses to raise it. You should study your ass off for the MCAT and apply to both MD and DO schools.

 

[BAS04yall]

so how bout that MCAT?....
It goes like this:
40% of your app is gpa
40% of your app is MCAT
20% of your app is everything else

This is roughly the gauge - for both MD and DO. Unless you have some ridiculous life experience or something and/or you have connections or a big checkbook.

MCAT is 30+

 

[cliquesh]

Thank you. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get a 580 on the COMPLEX and a 230 on usmle? Is it comparable to getting a 30 on the MCAT?

A 580 is around the 80th percentile and a 230 is around the 60-65th percentile. Keep in mind that you are competition is tougher. You are competing against people in medical school, not people hoping the get into medical school.

 

[BAS04yall]

I think if you want to be a Neurosurgeon, then you shouldn't go to DO school. I think the odds are stacked against you in this instance, because you will have to be a top performer to match *anywhere*, and even then it's a stretch. You can be above average and match ACGME Neurosurgery coming from an MD school, as most programs won't look at you for the simple fact that it's a DO. So yea, I'd say that limits you. If you only have a C, D, and F, then you can raise your GPA some more and or retake some courses to raise it. You should study your ass off for the MCAT and apply to both MD and DO schools.

Yeah unfortunately I already took my MCAT like a dummy after my sophomore year in college. Who does that?!

Yeah, thank you for being honest about my odds at being a neurosurgeon. But I'm still going to try.

 

[NontradCA]

Yeah unfortunately I already took my MCAT like a dummy after my sophomore year in college. Who does that?!

Yeah, thank you for being honest about my odds at being a neurosurgeon. But I'm still going to try.

If you're MCAT is 30+ like you said, then you have a chance at MD schools.

 

[Goro]

This is not a good sign. Re-take any F/D/C science courses. You need to apply with the best possible app. We have >10 years of data showing there is NO correlation between our students' MCAT scores and COMLEX score. Do well in medical school and that will insure good Boards performance.

Yeah I have UPS and DOWNs in my GPA. First year was 3.0, second year was 3.6, third year was 2.9, fourth year was 3.9. No real trend. And unfortunately the F, D, and C all came in my third year.

With an extremely uneven grade trend, a well-below avg GPA (even for schools like,s ay U AL) and a well below avg MCAT, I worry that OP might snag an interview, but then be terminally waitlisted.
If you're MCAT is 30+ like you said, then you have a chance at MD schools.

 

[BAS04yall]

This is not a good sign. Re-take any F/D/C science courses. You need to apply with the best possible app. We have >10 years of data showing there is NO correlation between our students' MCAT scores and COMLEX score. Do well in medical school and that will insure good Boards performance.

Yeah I have UPS and DOWNs in my GPA. First year was 3.0, second year was 3.6, third year was 2.9, fourth year was 3.9. No real trend. And unfortunately the F, D, and C all came in my third year.

Yeah I've heard MCAT doesnt correlate to crap. It's all GPA. Good to know. Thank you

 

[NontradCA]

Yeah I've heard MCAT doesnt correlate to crap. It's all GPA. Good to know. Thank you

Troll.

 

[BAS04yall]

Troll.

Not trollin, but it makes sense you know. GPA shows worth ethic and dedication, which is more indicative of a physician's day to day.
Also, no point trolling on these threads. If you want feedback, you be honest.

 

[orangeman25]

Yeah I've heard MCAT doesnt correlate to crap. It's all GPA. Good to know. Thank you

What? No.

 

[chocposit]

Ok thanks. If i retake those classes this summer, I'd apply by beginning of Sept. Will that be fine?

Same - curious if applying for D.O. schools (let's say... in Sept or... oh heck, October) would be pushing it?

 

[hallowmann]

Only one I will comment on is #2. Definitely just worry about getting in. You will find out 3rd and 4th year what you want to do. But there are DOs in every specialty except maybe Rad Onc (that I know of).

Woah, woah there buddy. I happen to know a DO who just matched RadOnc at a competitive ACGME program. I think only ~2-4 DOs match it every year though.

 

[graden]

Not trollin, but it makes sense you know. GPA shows worth ethic and dedication, which is more indicative of a physician's day to day.
Also, no point trolling on these threads. If you want feedback, you be honest.

I understand your rationalization, but that's not how it works. A high MCAT will invariably save a low GPA.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Woah, woah there buddy. I happen to know a DO who just matched RadOnc at a competitive ACGME program. I think only ~2-4 DOs match it every year though.

yea if you look further up the thread, I realized after some googling that there are definitely DO rad oncs out there (and posted several links to some). My bad.

I do wonder what it is about them that made them able to match (except obviously ridiculously hard work).

 

[Fedaykin]

Neurosurgery and anesthesia residencies are already around for DOs, but apparently DO and MD programs are merging. Or maybe they aren't merging. I hear both claims 10 times/day on these forums.

They're currently in a superposition of both merged and unmerged.

Don't look. Looking will cause total protonic reversal.

 

[TeethLikeGodsShoeshine]

Yeah I've heard MCAT doesnt correlate to crap. It's all GPA. Good to know. Thank you

Lol. No you're right. My 4.0 from Mcwherever Community college should carry me all the way to PCOM where I'm specializing in plastics.

 

[hallowmann]

yea if you look further up the thread, I realized after some googling that there are definitely DO rad oncs out there (and posted several links to some). My bad.

I do wonder what it is about them that made them able to match (except obviously ridiculously hard work).

For the person I know, it was ridiculously hard work and networking. Like tons of research (with people affiliated with the program) and studying. Its worth it if you know that's what you want to do.