New york medical college to affiliate with touro college

[donkeykong1]

Will touro and nymc still offer their respective DO and MD degrees or will there be a merger? Anyone have additional info.

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

they say that there's no merger..
however..
touro gets what they want, they get a MD school and a affiliated hospital which is happy to accept and create clinical rotations which will make the touro college in nyc easier to get clinical's without leaving the state.
basically.. tourocom just jumped from being probably one of the worst DO schools to one of the better ones.

sigh.. they need to get more DO medical schools to affliate with hospitals already.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I don't know how much this will affect Touro-NY. My guess is that Touro College's focus/baby is now going to be NYMC.

 

[Doctor Bob]

basically.. tourocom just jumped from being probably one of the worst DO schools to one of the better ones.

Well... maybe that campus will be. But it makes me wonder for the other campuses. It's part of the problem I have with branch campuses... there eventually becomes an allocation of resources issue.

Besides... the idea of chain medical schools sits as well with me as for-profit schools.

 

[donkeykong1]

to what extent are osteopathic schools affiliated with hospitals. i've been wondering about this for a long time. take nycom for example, they say they rotate at North Shore LIJ and they do. but so do einstein students and NYU students yet the latter schools actually have their names inscribed outside the university hospital and have faculty from their own schools as preceptors. is this true for nycom--i dont know. schools like umdnj-som, msu-com, unt-com, and now touro-com harlem appear to have the advantage in this crucial area at this point being that they are all part of schools with their own university/clinical hospitals

 

[AgDoc84]

Ok, I hate to be the naive one, and the late bloomer in the conversation, but I dont really understand what is happening here... These two institutions are now affiliated (or not) and all of a sudden this makes Touro New York much better... or somehow the DO will disappear all together?

 

[donkeykong1]

personally i think that the DO school would not be overshadowed by the MD school. Its quite similar to umdnj yet touro is a private institution.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Ok, I hate to be the naive one, and the late bloomer in the conversation, but I dont really understand what is happening here... These two institutions are now affiliated (or not) and all of a sudden this makes Touro New York much better... or somehow the DO will disappear all together?

Touro College = the big institution. It owns tons of undergrad stuff, graduate schools, etc, and under this umbrella lies Touro-CA, NV, and NY. They planned to open an allopathic school in NJ in like 2010 or 11, but instead they bought NYMC and it now falls under their umbrella. However, this doesn't really change anything about NYMC except that they now have more money. They will still be an MD school, they will still have all the same rotation sites (plus a few more that were meant for NJ), etc. I really, really don't think this is going to change anything concerning Touro-NY's sites. I really don't, at all. My guess is that TU-NY students can apply and rotate at the NYMC sites (maybe) the same way they could have before the merger. The whole situation is kind of irritating in my opinion. Touro's expansion is nuts, and the attitudes of those at NYMC has been weird to me. They seem borderline grossed out to be associated with a school that also had DO schools under it's wing. Maybe it's just because it's Touro, maybe it's because it's DO, but the things I read from students, admin, etc, while this whole buy out was happening were awkward.

 

[AgDoc84]

Thanks JP

 

[MossPoh]

What makes that disgust kind of funny is that NYMC used to be a holistic medical school. It is a win-win in my opinion. NYMC was hurting for money and they got it. In return, Touro gets an established instituition that can integrate residency programs in New York.

While NYMC isn't really known as a top tier school now, it used to be up there at one time. (Its fifth and flowers days) It is difficult to maintain that status when you don't have an undergrad affiliation.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Most of the DO schools are affiliated with hospitals. You aren't doing clinicals in the barber shop (anymore).

i mean like MD schools have a teaching hospital
PCOM used to have one too
but PCOM is in a big city so its got tons of places to rotate..
however touro students and some other newer schools rotate across the country... like AZCOM rotates most at il and ohio.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Does "chain schools" only apply to private institutions? I would assume but am not sure.

Well, by chain schools I mean branch campuses a la Touro, LECOM, etc...

State schools are a different beast because they're geographically limited and funded differently, so yes, it would be different for them.

Besides... the name makes things weird. Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine at Bradenton Florida.... Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine at Atlanta... reminds me of the University of Phoenix "campus" in the mall here in Illinois.

 

[MossPoh]

i mean like MD schools have a teaching hospital
PCOM used to have one too
but PCOM is in a big city so its got tons of places to rotate..
however touro students and some other newer schools rotate across the country... like AZCOM rotates most at il and ohio.

Not all allopathic schools have their own hospital either. It depends on the financial structure of the instituition as well. My school isn't really designed like that and we have a similar rotation design as a lot of osteopathic schools.

 

[Gold 5]

Ok, I hate to be the naive one, and the late bloomer in the conversation, but I dont really understand what is happening here... These two institutions are now affiliated (or not) and all of a sudden this makes Touro New York much better... or somehow the DO will disappear all together?

Per the deans from the last time they came to speak to us, no NYMC will stay separate from TOUROCOM. I am not sure about what is going to happen with rotation slots in the long term but for the short term everything will be seperate.

All of the Touro's (Touro-NV, Touro-CA, TOUROCOM & NYMC) I think are indepedent institutions under the Touro university umbrella.

 

[Laryngophed]

Per the deans from the last time they came to speak to us, no NYMC will stay separate from TOUROCOM. I am not sure about what is going to happen with rotation slots in the long term but for the short term everything will be seperate.

All of the Touro's (Touro-NV, Touro-CA, TOUROCOM & NYMC) I think are indepedent institutions under the Touro university umbrella.

 

[donkeykong1]

i know i started this thread a while back, but i wanted to bring it back from the dead to see if any current students had any updates on the situation.

does anyone know if tourocom-ny picked up any additional rotation sites as a result of the merger. specifically though did they add any UNIVERSITY hospitals into the mix?

 

[LesBois88]

TouroCOM has not specifically done any sort of trading/swapping with NYMC at all.

We have the rotation spots we need, and are still adding more (including a large VA hospital). Also, all of our core rotations are local.

 

[christina30]

to what extent are osteopathic schools affiliated with hospitals. i've been wondering about this for a long time. take nycom for example, they say they rotate at North Shore LIJ and they do. but so do einstein students and NYU students yet the latter schools actually have their names inscribed outside the university hospital and have faculty from their own schools as preceptors. is this true for nycom--i dont know. schools like umdnj-som, msu-com, unt-com, and now touro-com harlem appear to have the advantage in this crucial area at this point being that they are all part of schools with their own university/clinical hospitals

North Shore's hospital system is now going to be the "university hospital" of Hofstra's medical school once it opens this fall. It is still affiliated, as of right now, with NYCOM as part of NYCOMEC, which is what NYCOM calls their network of hospitals. That being said, these affiliations don't make them off-limits to other schools, especially in an area like New York with such a large number of medical schools in a relatively small area, geographically-speaking. Plus, with the state of healthcare here in NY (hospitals are closing left and right), the schools have to take what they can get.

DO school aren't the only ones that lack university hospitals, plenty of allopathic hospitals lack them - including NYMC.

 

[DocEspana]

i know i started this thread a while back, but i wanted to bring it back from the dead to see if any current students had any updates on the situation.

does anyone know if tourocom-ny picked up any additional rotation sites as a result of the merger. specifically though did they add any UNIVERSITY hospitals into the mix?

At the current moment TouroCOM is just sort of paying the bills that need to be paid to keep NYMC running. The contract was supposed to be closed and settled in late september of last year but big touro has been sort of holding back because they didnt realize how big of a debt NYMC had accrued. The best of my understanding is they will run entirely differently and Touro (big company) will just collect the profits.... though at the moment they still dont collect the profits as they are still trying to nail down a way to properly cover the debt in 'enough' years and then turn a profit and NYMC and Touro are disagreeing on how much cash per year that would require.

as a side note: touroCOM is technically not a branch school. Its 90% independent of the TU system (CA and NV). Which is why they are TUCOM and TUNVCOM but we are TouroCOM. Technically we are affiliated with the Touro liberal arts college and they are solely affiliated with the big mamma touro. The obvious 'well duh' is that big mamma Touro owns the liberal arts school, but for the sake of how we run and how autonomous we are, we are treated (and should be respected as) an independent school which happens to have the same president. As that's really whats going on. We share 1 rotation site with NV and CA, even though they share many of their sites, and we're run wholly independent of them.

Back on topic. We dont get any real advantage from it all. Actually, and this is anecdotal, the only feedback we've gotten is that mamma touro is tired of bargaining with NYMC and is purposely funnelling funds into our school over their contract negotiations because they have been incredibly happy with our progress and early success and somewhat tired of how much of a money drain NYMC has been.

We've been told that one day the school will benefit more directly from NYMC, but as the class of 2013, i'll never see that benefit. So at least their honest about it and how long a true meshing will take. In other news, we're officially back in manhattan having reclaimed spots at Harlem hospital for core rotations.

 

[LesBois88]

In other news, we're officially back in manhattan having reclaimed spots at Harlem hospital for core rotations.

My head just exploded. Details? PM if you prefer.

 

[donkeykong1]

At the current moment TouroCOM is just sort of paying the bills that need to be paid to keep NYMC running. The contract was supposed to be closed and settled in late september of last year but big touro has been sort of holding back because they didnt realize how big of a debt NYMC had accrued. The best of my understanding is they will run entirely differently and Touro (big company) will just collect the profits.... though at the moment they still dont collect the profits as they are still trying to nail down a way to properly cover the debt in 'enough' years and then turn a profit and NYMC and Touro are disagreeing on how much cash per year that would require.

as a side note: touroCOM is technically not a branch school. Its 90% independent of the TU system (CA and NV). Which is why they are TUCOM and TUNVCOM but we are TouroCOM. Technically we are affiliated with the Touro liberal arts college and they are solely affiliated with the big mamma touro. The obvious 'well duh' is that big mamma Touro owns the liberal arts school, but for the sake of how we run and how autonomous we are, we are treated (and should be respected as) an independent school which happens to have the same president. As that's really whats going on. We share 1 rotation site with NV and CA, even though they share many of their sites, and we're run wholly independent of them.

Back on topic. We dont get any real advantage from it all. Actually, and this is anecdotal, the only feedback we've gotten is that mamma touro is tired of bargaining with NYMC and is purposely funnelling funds into our school over their contract negotiations because they have been incredibly happy with our progress and early success and somewhat tired of how much of a money drain NYMC has been.

We've been told that one day the school will benefit more directly from NYMC, but as the class of 2013, i'll never see that benefit. So at least their honest about it and how long a true meshing will take. In other news, we're officially back in manhattan having reclaimed spots at Harlem hospital for core rotations.

thanks docespana this was exactly what i was looking for. btw would you know if tourocm-ny is planning to establish any new residency positions outside of the few primary care ones it has currently? if i'm not mistaken the only AOA accredited residencies close to the city are at st.barnabas right?

 

[NYEMMED]

thanks docespana this was exactly what i was looking for. btw would you know if tourocm-ny is planning to establish any new residency positions outside of the few primary care ones it has currently? if i'm not mistaken the only AOA accredited residencies close to the city are at st.barnabas right?

Look up NYCOMEC, there are lots of AOA approved residencies. They have St.Barnabas in the Bronx and the NJ system which is a system of 6 hospitals I believe, along with something like 26 facilities affiliated with NYCOMEC aka NYCOM that have residencies and 46 facilities to rotate through, the rest of these facilities have allopathic residencies but are very open to students who rotate through...

 

[donkeykong1]

Look up NYCOMEC, there are lots of AOA approved residencies. They have St.Barnabas in the Bronx and the NJ system which is a system of 6 hospitals I believe, along with something like 26 facilities affiliated with NYCOMEC aka NYCOM that have residencies and 46 facilities to rotate through, the rest of these facilities have allopathic residencies but are very open to students who rotate through...

i know this about nycom. just wanted to hear more about touro-ny. just want to keep my options open you know.

 

[NYEMMED]

i know this about nycom. just wanted to hear more about touro-ny. just want to keep my options open you know.

Yup I meant it more as for core rotations you need to go wherever touro-ny is affiliated, for electives you can go to one of NYCOMs hospitals, and as far as residency although NYCOM grads are given priority at NYCOMEC hospitals, there are plenty to go around, and anyone can apply, so I should have said you can apply to NYCOMEC if Touro-ny dosent have a place that interests you. But definitely keep every option open

 

[DocEspana]

My head just exploded. Details? PM if you prefer.

Super sparknotes (pm me if you want the full story, since its a bit more interesting/funny than this): our clinical dean (or recent ex-clinical dean rather) walked into our final weekly class last week and more or less dropped the bombshell out of the blue. Really, thank columbia for it. apparently they chewed out harlem hospital on both of our behalves. its only a few spots right now but theyre working to expand it before 2013 ships off to clinicals.

 

[donkeykong1]

wth why are most [if not all] of the IM residents at harlem hospital FMG?

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/HarlemMedicine/residents.html

 

[DocEspana]

thanks docespana this was exactly what i was looking for. btw would you know if tourocm-ny is planning to establish any new residency positions outside of the few primary care ones it has currently? if i'm not mistaken the only AOA accredited residencies close to the city are at st.barnabas right?

I figure i'll go through our clerkship-affiliated spots and we'll which ones have TouroCOM-affiliated or AOA-in-general residencies (and i'll answer your question too, in the process). These are all our clerkship affiliations.

Staten Island University Hospital: Lots of residencies, but all ACGME. A real crapton here, its surprising there are no AOA ones because its been very close with our school and has a number of DOs on staff.

St. John's in Queens: Touro Affiliate Residencies in: Internship, Derm, Family Med, General Surg (categorical), OBGYN, Optho, OMM. Additional ACGME residencies in: IM, Physical Medicine & Rehab, Psych.

Trinitas/St. Michaels in Elizabeth NJ: Technically we only go to Trinitas but the two work as one entity for their residency programs. Its a Dual Accredited ACGME/AOA program in Internal Med that is technically NYCOM affiliated though we rotate there with them and UNECOM.

Christ Hospital in Jersey City: UMDNJ-SOM affiliated Family Med and Internship AOA residency. They also added a new residency and it appears NYCOM and us are in disagreement as to who has the OPTI on it (who has the OPTI is not very relevant, but they do get to say its 'their' affiliate then). This is especially silly since OPTIs are run by the state, not the school.

Palisades/Holy Name/Englewood Hospitals: Three hospitals run by one DME along the hudson river in Jersey. They are getting a very large influx of residencies in 2012 under Touro's OPTI. I wish I could tell you which ones they will end up with, but i dont know. They were approved for a butt load (up to 200) of spots between the three hospitals. But how many will be made ready by 2012 or ever? Not clear. Not being pessimistic, mind you, this is just how it works. Those approved numbers get pared down quickly because the 'limiting step of the reaction' in making a residency is getting enough staff to train that many residents in each field. But this is the site of the AOA's biggest currently approved expansion of residencies.

Wilson Hospital: Dual accredited AOA/ACGME residency under Touro-affiliation and SUNY Upstate in family medicine and internal medicine. They also have ACGME transitional years and AOA internship years.

St. Elizabeth Hospital: AOA residency in FM and internship years. Not sure who's affiliate it is.

There are other hospitals.... but im forgetting them. so they prob dont have important residency programs in the area. Of note: there are quite a few AOA residencies around the city due to UMDNJ-SOM moving north and NYCOM moving west. We're doing our part by adding a bunch in north jersey and queens.

 

[DocEspana]

wth why are most [if not all] of the IM residents at harlem hospital FMG?

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/HarlemMedicine/residents.html

hahaha this is why harlem hospital got yelled at by columbia. You'd actually find the same thing if you looked at Bronx Lebanons residency program. Both of these hospitals were strong supporters of american training though they attracted a good number of foreign students. Then 2008 rolled by and St. George (Harlem Hospital) and Ross (Bronx-Leb) kicked out all the american students with large cash-per-student contracts that neither Touro nor Columbia could compete with.

So for 3 years we all bitched and moped. and 3 years of no american students rotating there for core rotations led to no americans wanting to go there for residency this last year since no one had trained there. I'm sure if american students wanted to go there they would definitely get in, but these two hospitals which have amazing resources have sort of gotten blacklisted by american students (Harlem Hospital much more than Bronx-Leb, which keeps two or three einstein and columbia students for a month here and there).

As i said above, and ill keep a long story condensed, columbia came in with our dean and clinical dean in tow and bitched out harlem hospital that they're an american affiliated hospital and have no americans in the hospital training nor in the post-graduate education. Spots have just 'magically' opened up.

 

[LesBois88]

DocE- Thank you. That is very exciting news. I'm sad that Z.T. is leaving.

 

[NYDOC112]

I figure i'll go through our clerkship-affiliated spots and we'll which ones have TouroCOM-affiliated or AOA-in-general residencies (and i'll answer your question too, in the process). These are all our clerkship affiliations.

Staten Island University Hospital: Lots of residencies, but all ACGME. A real crapton here, its surprising there are no AOA ones because its been very close with our school and has a number of DOs on staff.

St. John's in Queens: Touro Affiliate Residencies in: Internship, Derm, Family Med, General Surg (categorical), OBGYN, Optho, OMM. Additional ACGME residencies in: IM, Physical Medicine & Rehab, Psych.

Trinitas/St. Michaels in Elizabeth NJ: Technically we only go to Trinitas but the two work as one entity for their residency programs. Its a Dual Accredited ACGME/AOA program in Internal Med that is technically NYCOM affiliated though we rotate there with them and UNECOM.
NOt technically, it is NYCOM affiliated

Christ Hospital in Jersey City: UMDNJ-SOM affiliated Family Med and Internship AOA residency. They also added a new residency and it appears NYCOM and us are in disagreement as to who has the OPTI on it (who has the OPTI is not very relevant, but they do get to say its 'their' affiliate then). This is especially silly since OPTIs are run by the state, not the school.
NYCOM OPTI

Palisades/Holy Name/Englewood Hospitals: Three hospitals run by one DME along the hudson river in Jersey. They are getting a very large influx of residencies in 2012 under Touro's OPTI. I wish I could tell you which ones they will end up with, but i dont know. They were approved for a butt load (up to 200) of spots between the three hospitals. But how many will be made ready by 2012 or ever? Not clear. Not being pessimistic, mind you, this is just how it works. Those approved numbers get pared down quickly because the 'limiting step of the reaction' in making a residency is getting enough staff to train that many residents in each field. But this is the site of the AOA's biggest currently approved expansion of residencies.

Wilson Hospital: Dual accredited AOA/ACGME residency under Touro-affiliation and SUNY Upstate in family medicine and internal medicine. They also have ACGME transitional years and AOA internship years.
NYCOM Affiliation and OPTI

St. Elizabeth Hospital: AOA residency in FM and internship years. Not sure who's affiliate it is.

There are other hospitals.... but im forgetting them. so they prob dont have important residency programs in the area. Of note: there are quite a few AOA residencies around the city due to UMDNJ-SOM moving north and NYCOM moving west. We're doing our part by adding a bunch in north jersey and queens.

Just to clear up confusion here are the accurate affiliations of these hospitals http://www.opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm

Jersey City Medical Center - Internal Medicine Residency
Program Number: 196159
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)

Program
NYCOM/Trinitas Regional MC - Internal Medicine Residency
Program Number: 189602
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)

Program
Wilson Memorial Reg Med Ctr - Family Practice Residency
Program Number: 130094
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)


Wilson Memorial Reg Med Ctr - Internal Medicine Residency
Program Number: 173192
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)

Wilson Memorial Reg Med Ctr - Endocrinology Fellowship
Program Number: 182497
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)

 

[DocEspana]

Just to clear up confusion here are the accurate affiliations of these hospitals http://www.opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm

Jersey City Medical Center - Internal Medicine Residency
Program Number: 196159
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)

Program
NYCOM/Trinitas Regional MC - Internal Medicine Residency
Program Number: 189602
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)

Program
Wilson Memorial Reg Med Ctr - Family Practice Residency
Program Number: 130094
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)


Wilson Memorial Reg Med Ctr - Internal Medicine Residency
Program Number: 173192
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)

Wilson Memorial Reg Med Ctr - Endocrinology Fellowship
Program Number: 182497
Program Type: Residency
OPTI Affiliation(s):
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Educational Consortium (NYCOMEC)

You are aware that unless a school literally builds the program themselves (as LECOM did with a few places in buffalo) that every single NY AOA residency is NYCOM OPTI automatically, right? TouroCOM technically cannot technically claim OPTI anywhere until they have residents there and even though Wilson is a truly touro affiliated hospital, CA and NV didnt *build* the program there, so it has to default to NYCOM OPTI. But since its touro affiliated, the OPTI switches over (and St. John's officially becomes TouroCOM not 'touro medical consortium') when we get full accreditation in May. This is already a done deal.

I only said *technically* for Trinitas because I didnt want the title of NYCOM on the program to scare people off since all the north east schools use this hospital since its so huge and DO friendly. Just trying to show that we all share this hospital nicely. But yea, as i said, there can be only one school that collects the graduate research credit through the OPTI system as the state lays it out. Thats a minor point. As are all these OPTIs.

As for Jersey City, I have to disagree with you. We were told this is a NYCOM hospital, but that we funded the newest residency program there and as such that the OPTI would be switching over to us in May. Someone form NYCOM already disagreed with me on that happening though. The only thing I have to say about that is.... "IDK. You're prob right. I was just told otherwise." OPTIs dont really matter anyway and IDK what the OPTI rules are for NJ. Doesn't really effect anything from a student's point of view, its just a matter of who keeps record of the resident research, at least under the NY system

side note: I realize i put them in the same grouping, cause thats how we treat them, but if you were saying Christ Hospital is NYCOM OPTI, thats not right. But its not clear if you said that or not.

 

[NYDOC112]

You are aware that unless a school literally builds the program themselves (as LECOM did with a few places in buffalo) that every single NY AOA residency is NYCOM OPTI automatically, right? TouroCOM technically cannot technically claim OPTI anywhere until they have residents there and even though Wilson is a truly touro affiliated hospital, CA and NV didnt *build* the program there, so it has to default to NYCOM OPTI. But since its touro affiliated, the OPTI switches over (and St. John's officially becomes TouroCOM not 'touro medical consortium') when we get full accreditation in May. This is already a done deal.

You realize that hospitals can have affiliations with more than one medical school right? Wilson is in NYCOMEC, It was affiliated with NYCOM for years, this year it was announced as a major regional clinical campus for NYCOM, and is one of NYCOMs newer regional rotation programs. Other schools are affiliated there as well such as Bing, and SUNY, and Touro if you are correct, but not its exclusively Touros, and the AOA approved residencies were started by NYCOM, the programs were created by NYCOM before Touro-ny even existed.

http://iris.nyit.edu/~NYCOMEC/Index.htm
http://iris.nyit.edu/~NYCOMEC/NYCOMEC_News.htm

I only said *technically* for Trinitas because I didnt want the title of NYCOM on the program to scare people off since all the north east schools use this hospital since its so huge and DO friendly. Just trying to show that we all share this hospital nicely. But yea, as i said, there can be only one school that collects the graduate research credit through the OPTI system as the state lays it out. Thats a minor point. As are all these OPTIs.



As for Jersey City, I have to disagree with you. We were told this is a NYCOM hospital, but that we funded the newest residency program there and as such that the OPTI would be switching over to us in May. Someone form NYCOM already disagreed with me on that happening though. The only thing I have to say about that is.... "IDK. You're prob right. I was just told otherwise." OPTIs dont really matter anyway and IDK what the OPTI rules are for NJ. Doesn't really effect anything from a student's point of view, its just a matter of who keeps record of the resident research, at least under the NY system

I think somebody didnt give you accurate information...
Directly from the NYCOMEC website:
"The American Osteopathic Association has approved a new NYCOM-sponsored dually accredited Internal Medicine Residency at Jersey City Medical Center. The program is approved for twelve residents. Douglas Ratner, M.D. will serve as the Interim Program Director. He also serves as the Program Director for their ACGME Internal Medicine Residency. Their Director of Medical Education is Martin Levine, D.O., who is a member of the American Osteopathic Association's Board of Trustees."

side note: I realize i put them in the same grouping, cause thats how we treat them, but if you were saying Christ Hospital is NYCOM OPTI, thats not right. But its not clear if you said that or not.

I believe christ hospital is UMDNJ territory? I may be wrong on that, but the program comes up UMDNJ/christ hospital

I recently heard that NYCOM is close to having SIUH become a major clinical campus affiliation something along the tune of 25 rotation spots, and they are currently negotiating to sponsor AOA approved dually accredited residencies through NYCOMEC as well.

NYCOMEC residencies BTW are more than open to anyone, esp. touro-ny because you are our fellow NY school. Esp since NYCOM is getting ready to announce their plans to open their branch campus near NYMC (the investors are all on board etc, now its all about land acquisition, and NYCOM already has the facilities and rotations to support it, so approval will be quick. Some have speculated it was part of the discussion when the AOA president visited NYCOM on Thursday, guess we will see)

 

[DocEspana]

Oh I'm aware of all that but you were missing one key point. OPTI is for osteopathic PTI. There can only be 1 school linked to a hospital at a time. So while there can be more than one school with a affiliation at a hospital at once (2 to be exact, if one is allopathic) there can only be 1 osteopathic school with an affiliation at once. Thus why every single AOA residency in NY except for the one or two in buffalo LECOM created themselves is NYCOMEC. There was simply no other option and every program needs a school to carry its OPTI within the state.

Im aware i could have been misled by Jersey City cause Levine told us himself that we had the OPTI on the new residency, but its one person who is involved at a high level versus the organization proper. The latter has more credibility, though it wasn't foolish to believe the former initially

The Wilson thing I go back to because there can be only one osteopathic school per opti. They're technically switching it over because although NYCOM predates the TouroCOM campus in NY at Wilson, the program is basically a TouroCA and TouroNV training ground that NYCOM got assigned the opti to and has been using. Once TouroCOM can carry OPTI's in May we're supposed to pick up wilson and St Johns as there is finally a Touro in NY which is accredited. It wont change who trains at Wilson. It will just change who files the paperwork on the residents.

And i also know Christ is UMDNJ as well, it just wasnt clear if you were saying otherwise or not. Clear now.

and the NYMC thing cracked me up. Didnt know that.... thats amusing.

big NOTE here: Hospitals and schools should, and do, share and share alike. The opportunities offered dont vary based on who has the opti, its just awarded in a 'who has the most influence on what residents end up here.' As you said very clearly all these affiliations do not mean exclusions and tons of people train at each other's OPTI affiliations all the time. The only place an affiliation even means any sort of bias towards the students are when the hospital is within a few miles of the school and shares its name. Outside of that, there is no 'reason' to enjoy having the OPTI, as t's just a paperwork affiliation, not some 'our hospital' affiliation. Its not the same as an allopathic affiliation. (it really isnt, thats not just an opinion. Our systems are intrinsically different as to what an 'affiliation' means)

okay this has veered off topic more than enough. Your welcome to make the last comment, but i'm going back on topic from here now.

 

[ejay1518]

http://tumec.org/postdoc_programs.html

These are all of the residencies currently affiliated with the touros. We share the list the other touros though the residency is technically affiliated with the nearest touro (when TouroCOM gets accredited)

This list will greatly expand (hopefully) by 2012 as tourocom is trying to open up a boatload of residencies in one of our affiliated hospitals in NJ.

The list is small but so far we've done okay considering with have 2 ophtho residencies and 2 derm residencies (1 of each which is in NY).

all of the AOA residencies at St. John's in Queens, NY say they are affiliated with Touro University Medical Education Consortium on the opportunities.osteopathic.org site.

 

[Razmatazz]

Sharing rotation spots and hospital affiliations would definitely be a huge plus. Any updates on this issue?

 

[DocEspana]

Sharing rotation spots and hospital affiliations would definitely be a huge plus. Any updates on this issue?

met with some students from NYMC about 2.5 weeks ago. Same as always. Touro is writing checks to NYMC on a regular basis to keep their debt under control. They are still the "sponsors" of NYMC but the negotiations to "own" it are still ongoing. My understanding is that this means Touro continues to pay to keep the school open while NYMC and them try to negotiate how much of a restructuring touro is allowed to do of their leadership (business/university leadership, not educational leadership.)

Nothing seems to have come from it yet. Every NYMCer I meet asks me if their diploma will say "NYMC brought to you by Touro College" as if we were Mt. Dew sponsoring the Dew Tour But it just seems like one of those things where everyone know NYMC was fatally flawed from a business point of view and it will take a long time for Touro to convince a set in its ways institution that it needs to change big aspects of how they function economically to stay afloat. I image people who used to run the show need to be fired and replaced by Touro people and NYMC is not okay with that, but they have very little choice in the matter except to stall.

any benefits seen? Not yet. Some day. as I noted two months ago: the only real benefit is that NYMC's squabbling has made mamma touro like TouroCOM more and, from what my docs told me, there is an extra funnelling of money to us to try to make NYMC jealous. I know that not *literally* how it works with institutions getting jealous like two brothers would of mom's attention, but you get the point.

 

[DocEspana]

I should add that NYMC has some issues with losing rotation spots between St. Vincent's closing and offshore students sniping various hospitals they used to send some students to, and would have loved to increase (not decrease) their numbers to in the wake of St. Vincent's. Because of this there are no extra spots in NYMC's repertoire to be shared. Though I would be really excited for the future of both schools if NYMC shared westchester and we shared north jersey. I think the students at NYMC would like that since a decent amount of them are being sent to CT, and anecdotally they seem to be interested in NJ over CT. Obviously thats a personal opinion of the few I've talked to, but jersey is pretty cool so it might be a pervasive opinion.

 

[lovelovelove]

met with some students from NYMC about 2.5 weeks ago. Same as always. Touro is writing checks to NYMC on a regular basis to keep their debt under control. They are still the "sponsors" of NYMC but the negotiations to "own" it are still ongoing. My understanding is that this means Touro continues to pay to keep the school open while NYMC and them try to negotiate how much of a restructuring touro is allowed to do of their leadership (business/university leadership, not educational leadership.)

Nothing seems to have come from it yet. Every NYMCer I meet asks me if their diploma will say "NYMC brought to you by Touro College" as if we were Mt. Dew sponsoring the Dew Tour But it just seems like one of those things where everyone know NYMC was fatally flawed from a business point of view and it will take a long time for Touro to convince a set in its ways institution that it needs to change big aspects of how they function economically to stay afloat. I image people who used to run the show need to be fired and replaced by Touro people and NYMC is not okay with that, but they have very little choice in the matter except to stall.

any benefits seen? Not yet. Some day. as I noted two months ago: the only real benefit is that NYMC's squabbling has made mamma touro like TouroCOM more and, from what my docs told me, there is an extra funnelling of money to us to try to make NYMC jealous. I know that not *literally* how it works with institutions getting jealous like two brothers would of mom's attention, but you get the point.

I really hope NYMC does not let Touro to take over completely. No offence, but Touro has such a bad reputation, and it is actually shame that NYMC came down to the point where they are doing this thing.

 

[DocEspana]

I really hope NYMC does not let Touro to take over completely. No offence, but Touro has such a bad reputation, and it is actually shame that NYMC came down to the point where they are doing this thing.

<shrug> I realize what you're talking about, and NYMC is definitely a good brand for medicine while Touro is a good brand for "educational conglomerates". Its a huge distinction hahaha. But NYMC is colloquially called the zombie med school because it "doesnt know when to die." Sure its a joke, but it has a grain of truth. So many organizations have lost gigantic amounts of money trying to keep it from ceasing to exist. It nearly bankrupted Westchester medical center and the NY Archdiocese all by itself just in the last 10 years.

No, I dont know *how* it can manage to be that much of a money sink, but it is. Just saying, NYMC's reputation is not much better.

But touro has no intention of taking over completely either. They want to do what they've done with every other school they've bought: they want to put themselves in charge of all the spending decisions and give everyone off from friday at noon til sunday morning. Everything else they leave as is. They just want to control the money flow and budget, they let the educational people run the entire educational end. They probably got into this because they have made a big name for themself being able to buy failed/failing schools of all kinds (NYMC is eerily close to one, but definitely not one yet) and getting their accounting books back in the black.

 

[DocEspana]

Touro just bought NYMC today. Here is the party line newsbit from Touro.

Dear Students, Faculty, Staff, Administration, and Friends,

Today is an auspicious day for Touro College. At a reception at the Bryant Park Grill, President Alan Kadish, MD, announced that the New York Medical College will be joining the Touro College and Touro University family of institutions. With this new school, Touro College now educates over 2,500 medical students. These medical students are steeped within rich traditions of osteopathic and allopathic medicine.

This is particularly important because this acquisition allowed Touro College to be true to its mission. New York Medical College needed to affiliate with a major college and university system in order to continue into the future. Recognizing the value to medical education and service, allied health education, and medical research, Touro stepped in so that a valuable asset to society can continue. Through this action, Touro College will be able to help New York Medical College continue to meet society's needs while expanding the scope and depth of the already rich offerings of our colleges.

Please join me in welcoming our newest member.

 

[drctother]

Touro just bought NYMC today. Here is the party line newsbit from Touro.

Dear Students, Faculty, Staff, Administration, and Friends,

Today is an auspicious day for Touro College. At a reception at the Bryant Park Grill, President Alan Kadish, MD, announced that the New York Medical College will be joining the Touro College and Touro University family of institutions. With this new school, Touro College now educates over 2,500 medical students. These medical students are steeped within rich traditions of osteopathic and allopathic medicine.

This is particularly important because this acquisition allowed Touro College to be true to its mission. New York Medical College needed to affiliate with a major college and university system in order to continue into the future. Recognizing the value to medical education and service, allied health education, and medical research, Touro stepped in so that a valuable asset to society can continue. Through this action, Touro College will be able to help New York Medical College continue to meet society’s needs while expanding the scope and depth of the already rich offerings of our colleges.

Please join me in welcoming our newest member.

 

[donkeykong1]

mazal tov to Pres. Kadish and touro on the acquisition. toda rabah to docespana for the update.

i'm sure many of my nymc friends will be pissed after i tell them about this but uh its good for touro.

http://www.nymc.edu/Touro-NYMC.html

 

[lilypod]

Touro just bought NYMC today. Here is the party line newsbit from Touro.

Dear Students, Faculty, Staff, Administration, and Friends,

Today is an auspicious day for Touro College. At a reception at the Bryant Park Grill, President Alan Kadish, MD, announced that the New York Medical College will be joining the Touro College and Touro University family of institutions. With this new school, Touro College now educates over 2,500 medical students. These medical students are steeped within rich traditions of osteopathic and allopathic medicine.

This is particularly important because this acquisition allowed Touro College to be true to its mission. New York Medical College needed to affiliate with a major college and university system in order to continue into the future. Recognizing the value to medical education and service, allied health education, and medical research, Touro stepped in so that a valuable asset to society can continue. Through this action, Touro College will be able to help New York Medical College continue to meet society

 

[DocEspana]

I assume there used to me more to that last post than there currently is?

 

[gplex86]

So many organizations have lost gigantic amounts of money trying to keep it from ceasing to exist. It nearly bankrupted Westchester medical center and the NY Archdiocese all by itself just in the last 10 years.

I'm sorry but this is completely incorrect.

Westchester Medical Center's financial problems were due to a disastrous attempt to privatize the hospital in the late 1990's, which came to a head in the early 2000's. You can read all about that in the New York Times. It had nothing to do with NYMC. NYMC supplies the academic appointments. It is not involved with hospital finances. (WMC is now semi-private and stable).

The NY Archdiocese never provided money to NYMC. When Flower Hospital closed in the 70's, the Archdiocese guaranteed NYMC's loans in exchange for the Manhattan property (a city block) that the hospital occupied, as well as ownership of the school. Not a bad deal. The Archdiocese is only responsible for NYMC financially if it actually goes under. Hence why they wanted to offload it. Why did the Archdiocese lose money the past 10 years? That's a story all in itself.

I'd also like to point out that, if you care the read NYMC's audited financial statements, they are no longer losing money. They WERE losing about 5 million a year, which was eating up the $50 million endowment. Again, that didn't touch the Archdiocese. After restructuring (the School of Public Health was a big money pit), the school is now breaking even. But it has no room to grow without outside financing. Hence, Touro.

Thank you and goodnight.

 

[DocEspana]

Change of heart. I'm gonna play nice. There are a few problems with the simplicity you provided... but its not worth starting an argument over. Both schools will benefit and thats the good thing.