New York Times article on Caribbean medical schools

[deleted436726]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/education/edlife/second-chance-med-school.html?_r=0

Thoughts?

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[Goro]

Note this:

The only schools for which statistical comparisons can be easily made are those participating in financial aid programs with the Department of Education, which posts debt burden, exam passage rates and completion rates of American students. The statistics show that about half of Ross’s 2012 graduates failed to graduate on time; at American University it was almost a third, and at St. George’s just under a fifth. But the federal methodology doesn’t follow a cohort, or take into account those who leave a program. If it did, results would look much different. Of students who entered St. George’s program in fall 2009, 10 percent dropped out, 1 percent transferred and 65 percent made it to graduation in four years. Twenty percent more took five years and an additional 4 percent took six or more years.

NOT encouraging! Both COCA and LCME would be all over DO and MD schools (and not in a good way) that had these types of numbers.

 

[blackkrim]

Note this:

The only schools for which statistical comparisons can be easily made are those participating in financial aid programs with the Department of Education, which posts debt burden, exam passage rates and completion rates of American students. The statistics show that about half of Ross’s 2012 graduates failed to graduate on time; at American University it was almost a third, and at St. George’s just under a fifth. But the federal methodology doesn’t follow a cohort, or take into account those who leave a program. If it did, results would look much different. Of students who entered St. George’s program in fall 2009, 10 percent dropped out, 1 percent transferred and 65 percent made it to graduation in four years. Twenty percent more took five years and an additional 4 percent took six or more years.

NOT encouraging! Both COCA and LCME would be all over DO and MD schools (and not in a good way) that had these types of numbers.

What do you think is behind these numbers? Does it have to do with accepting underqualified students (not saying that Caribbean students necessarily are underqualified, by the way) or can be it explained more by institutional problems like bad curricula, support systems, etc?

 

[CrimsonKing]

What do you think is behind these numbers? Does it have to do with accepting underqualified students (not saying that Caribbean students necessarily are underqualified, by the way) or can be it explained more by institutional problems like bad curricula, support systems, etc?

C. Both

 

[aklark]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/e...athic-branch-of-medicine-is-booming.html?_r=0

Also recently had a send up of DO schools. Are they really that different?

 

[FutureOncologist]

This article sounds like it's trying to give IMGs the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time slandering it in ways that you'd have to read carefully. IMGs are, IMO, a huge waste and need to be phased out by the merger of the AOA(?) and the ACGME.

What I gained from this article is:

1. Undergrads don't do any research into what they're getting into, even if they go into an MD school.
2. (Not all) Premeds are self-entitled dinguses that think they should go to a top program just because it's in his/her state
3. Even if you've earned the title of "Valedictorian" in your degree, it doesn't guarantee you a spot into medical school.
4. If you're serious about medical school, then your backup, if you don't get in, should be calling the medical schools you got rejected from and ask "Why?" and work on what was weak for a year while working.
5. If you are even considering throwing up your hands after being rejected and consider becoming a nurse, you should just become a nurse.
6. IMGs, even though they can throw numbers at you, will never be worth it unless you somehow transfer to an American MD/DO school.

 

[Goro]

Yes.

What do you think is behind these numbers? Does it have to do with accepting underqualified students (not saying that Caribbean students necessarily are underqualified, by the way) or can be it explained more by institutional problems like bad curricula, support systems, etc?

 

[darkjedi]

I wonder what's with NYTs recent obsession with medical schools...

 

[gyngyn]

I wonder what's with NYTs recent obsession with medical schools...

Everybody loves a good medical drama.

 

[blackkrim]

C. Both

Fair enough, I didn't mean to pose a dichotomy.

Why doesn't the Department of Education crack down on this more? With the recent attacks on for-profit colleges due to their poor graduation rates, you'd think that Caribbean med schools with similar problems might feel some heat from the DoE.

 

[gyngyn]

Fair enough, I didn't mean to pose a dichotomy.

Why doesn't the Department of Education crack down on this more? With the recent attacks on for-profit colleges due to their poor graduation rates, you'd think that Caribbean med schools with similar problems might feel some heat from the DoE.

Yes. A complicating factor is that an MD degree (unlike others) is essentially useless without a residency. Unless residency match rates are used as a measure of value, all they have to do is increase graduation rate to avoid sanction.

 

[LeenoRocks]

1. IMGs, even though they can throw numbers at you, will never be worth it unless you somehow transfer to an American MD/DO school.

Do US schools accept Caribbean transfers?

 

[RTC19]

Do US schools accept Caribbean transfers?

In my limited experience, I have found that the majority of US medical schools do not accept transfers, period.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Do US schools accept Caribbean transfers?

Don't think so. Saw in the article that some transfer. That could be from IMG to IMG or to some DO school.

 

[Fedxup]

Do US schools accept Caribbean transfers?

Drexel does.

 

[deanthedream17]

Drexel does.

I think they were known as one of the few schools that have accepted caribbean transfers in the past, but recently have not accepted any (recent years). I believe they have not accepted transfers in general period.

 

[516662]

A lot of defense for Carib schools in the NYT comments. A bit sad, since they are giving false hope to future students. Better to reapply or choose another career in than take this risky "second" way. If all the schools you applied to in the US did not take you, what does that say about your ability to become a doc? Not everyone out is cut out for it. Like trying to become a pro NBA player, when you aren't good enough.

 

[deleted436726]

A lot of defense for Carib schools in the NYT comments. A bit sad, since they are giving false hope to future students. Better to reapply or choose another career in than take this risky "second" way. If all the schools you applied to in the US did not take you, what does that say about your ability to become a doc? Not everyone out is cut out for it. Like trying to become a pro NBA player, when you aren't good enough.

Yes, but that defense has some merit to it. Sure, it's risky. But a 60% or even 50% residency match rate is still far better than the 0% chance you have if you don't go to med school, and for some, that significantly-above-0% shot at becoming a physician is worth it. And I would argue that not being accepted by any US med school correlates very little with how good of a physician you would be. Unlike being a pro NBA player, there's not really any requirement for exceptional talent or skill required to become a physician. If you can memorize facts and do the work then you're more than capable of passing licensing exams and becoming board-certified. It's not like pursuing a science PhD where you could definitely argue that some people aren't cut out for it because they simply don't have the intellectual capacity required to do original research.

 

[DarknightX]

Yes, but that defense has some merit to it. Sure, it's risky. But a 60% or even 50% residency match rate is still far better than the 0% chance you have if you don't go to med school, and for some, that significantly-above-0% shot at becoming a physician is worth it. And I would argue that not being accepted by any US med school correlates very little with how good of a physician you would be. Unlike being a pro NBA player, there's not really any requirement for exceptional talent or skill required to become a physician. If you can memorize facts and do the work then you're more than capable of passing licensing exams and becoming board-certified. It's not like pursuing a science PhD where you could definitely argue that some people aren't cut out for it because they simply don't have the intellectual capacity required to do original research.

Those match rate statistics are extremely misleading. Many of the people who go to Caribbean schools match into preliminary surgery or medicine years, which are only 1 year spots that guarantee you absolutely nothing. Many prelims do one year of residency, then try to find a categorical position. They are usually dead ends.

The above 0% spot chance comes with a huge price tag, over 200K worth of tuition. If you only have a 50% of landing a residency spot, and probably significantly less for a spot that will actually enable you to practice, is that really worth it?

 

[smpbound]

Great article. Some cool facts I discovered:

Caribbean avg stats are 3.4 and 26: comparable to DO schools.

Residency Matches are low: around 50%. But grads do "eventually" get a residency outside of the Match Placement. I think the number was 90%.

If your parent has preexisting practice and you want to take it over, going Caribbean might not be a bad idea.

Rum and cigarettes are cheaper than tomatoes and cereal in Grenada? pffff. Reminds me of South Dakota.

 

[DarknightX]

Great article. Some cool facts I discovered:

Caribbean avg stats are 3.4 and 26: comparable to DO schools.

Residency Matches are low: around 50%. But grads do "eventually" get a residency outside of the Match Placement. I think the number was 90%.

If your parent has preexisting practice and you want to take it over, going Caribbean might not be a bad idea.

Rum and cigarettes are cheaper than tomatoes and cereal in Grenada? pffff. Reminds me of South Dakota.

Yeah but how many of those residency spots are prelim spots? I would guess that most, if not all were if they get a residency spot outside of the match.

 

[smpbound]

Yeah but how many of those residency spots are prelim spots? I would guess that most, if not all were if they get a residency spot outside of the match.

Can you explain what a preliminary spot is?

 

[type12]

I think the stories and examples in the article show two things that are not pointed out well: some of the people in the caribbean are doctor material; US medical schools' admissions system is broken, or, at the very least, very imperfect. I imagine the some well-deserved seats were stolen by their corrupt cronyism. Bronx now has a psychiatrist whose files on female patients have a hotness rating system at the top, and last visit date, so he can morally date or reach out to his patients when the time is right. In the same place, you have a family med doctor from the caribbean who actually discounts (i.e., pays for) his patients' meds when he knows they cannot pay for them, upwards of $800+.

This article actually paints a rosier picture of the caribbean, in my opinion, but I think it does a good job of showing that caribbean is not a death sentence, and something one can do when all other options are exhausted. Over osteopathic medicine? In some cases, yes. For most? No.

I'm actually very impressed with their average stats. Looks like Caribbean will be competitive in the future.

 

[smpbound]

I think the stories and examples in the article show two things that are not pointed out well: some of the people in the caribbean are doctor material; US medical schools' admissions system is broken, or, at the very least, very imperfect. I imagine the some well-deserved seats were stolen by their corrupt cronyism. Bronx now has a psychiatrist whose files on female patients have a hotness rating system at the top, and last visit date, so he can morally date or reach out to his patients when the time is right. In the same place, you have a family med doctor from the caribbean who actually discounts (i.e., pays for) his patients' meds when he knows they cannot pay for them, upwards of $800+.

This article actually paints a rosier picture of the caribbean, in my opinion, but I think it does a good job of showing that caribbean is not a death sentence, and something one can do when all other options are exhausted. Over osteopathic medicine? In some cases, yes. For most? No.

I'm actually very impressed with their average stats. Looks like Caribbean will be competitive in the future.

Look, if you want to train in New York and can't get accepted to a school there, it might behoove one to go to St. George rather than a rural DO school.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Great article. Some cool facts I discovered:

Caribbean avg stats are 3.4 and 26: comparable to DO schools.

Residency Matches are low: around 50%. But grads do "eventually" get a residency outside of the Match Placement. I think the number was 90%.

If your parent has preexisting practice and you want to take it over, going Caribbean might not be a bad idea.

Rum and cigarettes are cheaper than tomatoes and cereal in Grenada? pffff. Reminds me of South Dakota.

Its didn't say that was the carribean average. That was the average at the best carribean school. Most of the other better ones are low twenties (nothing close to do). And at the best one there is still a 20 dropout rate and 50 percent that don't drop out match. The 90 percent figure isn't supported by anything other then what that guy said. This article puts carribean in way too positive if a light but even still it kinda shows how bad of an idea it is.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Look, if you want to train in New York and can't get accepted to a school there, it might behoove one to go to St. George rather than a rural DO school.

False go to nyit not carribean. Also any do school is better then any carribean carribean school. Opportunities and education are far superior.

 

[smpbound]

False go to nyit not carribean. Also any do school is better then any carribean carribean school. Opportunities and education are far superior.

I said 'if you don't get accepted to school there." c'mon get off my ass.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I said 'if you don't get accepted to school there." c'mon get off my ass.

No I won't get off.

Even if you didn't get into a NY school it still pays to go do. I have personally seen many people training in NY allo residencies from do schools around the nation.

I have seen none from the carribean (there are some but they are the expections).

Carribean is a horrible horrible idea and to encourage it is reckless. I have family members that went there and they turned out just fine. But that was a different time and even they wouldn't recommend it now.

 

[DarknightX]

.

 

[DarknightX]

Can you explain what a preliminary spot is?

There are two types of positions, a categorical position and a preliminary position.
Categorical residents are basically have a spot for the duration of the number of years it takes to complete a residency. A prelim resident gets 1 year with no further guarantees. There are preliminary spots for General Surgery and Internal Medicine.

For example in General Surgery there are categorical positions and preliminary positions. A categorical General Surgery resident is basically guaranteed a spot for 5 years which is the time it takes to finish the program. As long as they meet their program minimum requirements each year and don't do anything stupid, they are assured of completing their 5 year residency and can sit for their General Surgery Boards.

A preliminary resident gets one year and that is it; absolutely nothing is guaranteed after that. One year of residency and then you have to go out and interview and find a new spot. You have to pray a categorical spot opens up, and you already have the stigma of being a prelim (whether it's fair or not). Some people do a prelim year because they go into a specialty that doesn't have an intern year (anesthesia, radiology, radiation oncology) and they need to complete an intern year before starting their residency in their specialty. These people are fine, they already have something lined up for their R2 year. Most Caribbean grads aren't in this position, and IMG's in general often take these positions, do a year of residency, and then find themselves in the same position the next year - hustling to find something. Prelim Surgery spots are extremely easy to find because nobody wants to do them. You are basically cheap labor, even more so than regular interns. You'll work your a** off, and if you're lucky you'll get some good letters of rec. To sum it up, in most cases, it's a dead end. The only silver lining is that after one year of residency you can get a medical license, but without board certification in a specialty the best you can do is work at an urgent care.

Premeds don't understand this and think they're gonna be doctors because Caribbean school X has a 90% match rate. What they fail to understand is that many Caribbean grads who do match end up in dead end prelim spots.

That's why the statistics about Match Rates are extremely misleading. I'd much rather see their statistics on their graduates board certification. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 15%. If you're considering a Caribbean school, I'd want to see their actual match list and see how many of those "90% matched" ended up in prelim spots.

 

[smpbound]

There are two types of positions, a categorical position and a preliminary position.
Categorical residents are basically have a spot for the duration of the number of years it takes to complete a residency. A prelim resident gets 1 year with no further guarantees. There are preliminary spots for General Surgery and Internal Medicine.

For example in General Surgery there are categorical positions and preliminary positions. A categorical General Surgery resident is basically guaranteed a spot for 5 years which is the time it takes to finish the program. As long as they meet their program minimum requirements each year and don't do anything stupid, they are assured of completing their 5 year residency and can sit for their General Surgery Boards.

A preliminary resident gets one year and that is it; absolutely nothing is guaranteed after that. One year of residency and then you have to go out and interview and find a new spot. You have to pray a categorical spot opens up, and you already have the stigma of being a prelim (whether it's fair or not). Some people do a prelim year because they go into a specialty that doesn't have an intern year (anesthesia, radiology, radiation oncology) and they need to complete an intern year before starting their residency in their specialty. These people are fine, they already have something lined up for their R2 year. Most Caribbean grads aren't in this position, and IMG's in general often take these positions, do a year of residency, and then find themselves in the same position the next year - hustling to find something. Prelim Surgery spots are extremely easy to find because nobody wants to do them. You are basically cheap labor, even more so than regular interns. You'll work your a** off, and if you're lucky you'll get some good letters of rec. To sum it up, in most cases, it's a dead end. The only silver lining is that after one year of residency you can get a medical license, but without board certification in a specialty the best you can do is work at an urgent care.

Premeds don't understand this and think they're gonna be doctors because Caribbean school X has a 90% match rate. What they fail to understand is that many Caribbean grads who do match end up in dead end prelim spots.

That's why the statistics about Match Rates are extremely misleading. I'd much rather see their statistics on their graduates board certification. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 30%. If you're considering a Caribbean school, I'd want to see their actual match list and see how many of those "90% matched" ended up in prelim spots.

Great post!

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

There are two types of positions, a categorical position and a preliminary position.
Categorical residents are basically have a spot for the duration of the number of years it takes to complete a residency. A prelim resident gets 1 year with no further guarantees. There are preliminary spots for General Surgery and Internal Medicine.

For example in General Surgery there are categorical positions and preliminary positions. A categorical General Surgery resident is basically guaranteed a spot for 5 years which is the time it takes to finish the program. As long as they meet their program minimum requirements each year and don't do anything stupid, they are assured of completing their 5 year residency and can sit for their General Surgery Boards.

A preliminary resident gets one year and that is it; absolutely nothing is guaranteed after that. One year of residency and then you have to go out and interview and find a new spot. You have to pray a categorical spot opens up, and you already have the stigma of being a prelim (whether it's fair or not). Some people do a prelim year because they go into a specialty that doesn't have an intern year (anesthesia, radiology, radiation oncology) and they need to complete an intern year before starting their residency in their specialty. These people are fine, they already have something lined up for their R2 year. Most Caribbean grads aren't in this position, and IMG's in general often take these positions, do a year of residency, and then find themselves in the same position the next year - hustling to find something. Prelim Surgery spots are extremely easy to find because nobody wants to do them. You are basically cheap labor, even more so than regular interns. You'll work your a** off, and if you're lucky you'll get some good letters of rec. To sum it up, in most cases, it's a dead end. The only silver lining is that after one year of residency you can get a medical license, but without board certification in a specialty the best you can do is work at an urgent care.

Premeds don't understand this and think they're gonna be doctors because Caribbean school X has a 90% match rate. What they fail to understand is that many Caribbean grads who do match end up in dead end prelim spots.

That's why the statistics about Match Rates are extremely misleading. I'd much rather see their statistics on their graduates board certification. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 30%. If you're considering a Caribbean school, I'd want to see their actual match list and see how many of those "90% matched" ended up in prelim spots.

.

Just an FYI for those arguing against do go look at their match list. Very few prelim. I think the last one I looked at had one of those.

 

[DarknightX]

False go to nyit not carribean. Also any do school is better then any carribean carribean school. Opportunities and education are far superior.

Agreed. What people fail to realize is that coming out of a Caribbean school you are considered an IMG. Every program would MUCH rather have an MD or DO than an IMG. It's just the way it is, and with the increase of medical schools and residency spots not increasing, it's only going to get more competitive.

Basically, MD's and DO's have first dibs. IMG's get all the leftovers.

 

[DarknightX]

Just an FYI for those arguing against do go look at their match list. Very few prelim. I think the last one I looked at had one of those.

I'd like to see that match list.

I've seen it for 2011 and 2012 and a vast majority were prelim medicine and prelim surgery. Didn't see any advanced specialties either.

 

[smpbound]

Agreed. What people fail to realize is that coming out of a Caribbean school you are considered an IMG. Every program would MUCH rather have an MD or DO than an IMG. It's just the way it is, and with the increase of medical schools and residency spots not increasing, it's only going to get more competitive.

Basically, MD's and DO's have first dibs. IMG's get all the leftovers.

But I do like "The Leftovers" on HBO. I think I'm the only one.

 

[FutureOncologist]

In my honest opinion, the merger of the AOA and the ACGME will make it near-impossible for an IMG to practice by 2025, especially how DO schools are being brought up left and right in the country.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I'd like to see that match list.

I've seen it for 2011 and 2012 and a vast majority were prelim medicine and prelim surgery. Didn't see any advanced specialties either.

I'm talking do match not carribean. I looked backed and there was 3 prelims.

 

[DarknightX]

I'm talking do match not carribean. I looked backed and there was 3 prelims.

Just caught that, sorry, ya I agree.

Anytime I talk to premeds I tell them DO >>>>>>>>> Caribbean.

It's not even close and I don't even know why it's debatable. It's not. The numbers don't lie.

 

[DarknightX]

The mentality of some of these kids absolutely kills me.

"Ya, I know I only got a 25 on my MCAT, and my GPA is crappy, but I KNOW I'm gonna be a great doctor. I'll just go to a Caribbean school and I'll be a doctor."

So you're telling me that you couldn't really muster a competitive application against the average pre-med in the US, but you're gonna go take Step 1 and compete against the best of those premeds who actually got into medical school? What makes people think they'll get a good score on Step 1 (which is the exam that plays a major role in determining if and where you match) if they can't even hack the MCAT?

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Just caught that, sorry, ya I agree.

Anytime I talk to premeds I tell them DO >>>>>>>>> Caribbean.

It's not even close and I don't even know why it's debatable. It's not. The numbers don't lie.

Its not debatable.

Carribean advantages: you get an MD (I don't consider that an advantage but some do)
Do advantage: you get a job

 

[type12]

Its not debatable.

Carribean advantages: you get an MD (I don't consider that an advantage but some do)
Do advantage: you get a job

This makes a difference when you try to do doctors without borders, though. With an MD, you get what you signup for; with DO, well, there's borders.

Again, for the vast majority, DO and MD don't make a difference. However, there are cases where if someone wants funding or practice occasionally elsewhere, the DO becomes a cripple rather than a crutch.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

The mentality of some of these kids absolutely kills me.

"Ya, I know I only got a 25 on my MCAT, and my GPA is crappy, but I KNOW I'm gonna be a great doctor. I'll just go to a Caribbean school and I'll be a doctor."

So you're telling me that you couldn't really muster a competitive application against the average pre-med in the US, but you're gonna go take Step 1 and compete against the best of those premeds who actually got into medical school? What makes people think they'll get a good score on Step 1 (which is the exam that plays a major role in determining if and where you match) if they can't even hack the MCAT?

25 might even be too high. A representitive from auc came to my school and said you needed a 20. This guy interviews for them!!!

 

[DarknightX]

This makes a difference when you try to do doctors without borders, though. With an MD, you get what you signup for; with DO, well, there's borders.

Again, for the vast majority, DO and MD don't make a difference. However, there are cases where if someone wants funding or practice occasionally elsewhere, the DO becomes a cripple rather than a crutch.

Pretty sure doctors without borders would rather have someone who finished residency and is board certified.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

This makes a difference when you try to do doctors without borders, though. With an MD, you get what you signup for; with DO, well, there's borders.

Again, for the vast majority, DO and MD don't make a difference. However, there are cases where if someone wants funding or practice occasionally elsewhere, the DO becomes a cripple rather than a crutch.

This is honestly laughable. Thanks for that I needed a good chuckle.

Check this out: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a.../Pages/international-practice-rights-map.aspx

Pretty much anywhere you would want to practice as a do you can. Some less devolped countries (Grey ones) have more pressing issues then to make legislation on this. I guess you were getting at that you couldn't go to some random African country and help them out? Well if you really wanted to do that I'm sure you could figure out a way.

 

[type12]

This is honestly laughable. Thanks for that I needed a good chuckle.

Check this out: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a.../Pages/international-practice-rights-map.aspx

Pretty much anywhere you would want to practice as a do you can. Some less devolped countries (Grey ones) have more pressing issues then to make legislation on this. I guess you were getting at that you couldn't go to some random African country and help them out? Well if you really wanted to do that I'm sure you could figure out a way.

So, basically, you say it's laughable, then prove my point? What's laughable is you referring to European countries as "less developed" just for not recognizing DO.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

So, basically, you say it's laughable, then prove my point? What's laughable is you referring to European countries as "less developed" just for not recognizing DO.

I'm honestly dying. You're a funny guy.

When did I ever even mention Europe??? I mentioned African countries as less devolped. Dos don't have any problem in most European countries.

I mentioned African countries because even though there is no official legislation saying dos can practice I severely doubt they would care. So things like doctors without borders really wouldn't be a problem

 

[Apollo1]

I imagine the some well-deserved seats were stolen by their corrupt cronyism. Bronx now has a psychiatrist whose files on female patients have a hotness rating system at the top, and last visit date, so he can morally date or reach out to his patients when the time is right. In the same place, you have a family med doctor from the caribbean who actually discounts (i.e., pays for) his patients' meds when he knows they cannot pay for them, upwards of $800+.

Good to know that you enjoy red herring; as for myself, I've found the flavor to be somewhat distracting.

 

[type12]

I'm honestly dying. You're a funny guy.

When did I ever even mention Europe??? I mentioned African countries as less devolped. Dos don't have any problem in most European countries.

I mentioned African countries even those there is no official legislation saying dos can practice I severely doubt they would care.

You didn't specify, but implied any country that is grey is less developed: "Some less devolped countries (Grey ones) have more pressing issues then to make legislation on this."

I challenge you to find a PRACTICING osteopathic doctor in Spain. I've had DO friends who have had trouble practicing there and India (which is orange on that map), so I wouldn't say there's "no problem."

Good to know that you enjoy red herring; as for myself, I've found the flavor to be somewhat distracting.

Brush up on logical fallacies. This is an example, not the core of the point, and doesn't detract from the topic whatsoever. My point was, some well-deserving people end up in the Caribbean, and can be seen by the end product. The other point was (as I stated), US med schools accept some atrocious applicants.

 

[DarknightX]

I think the stories and examples in the article show two things that are not pointed out well: some of the people in the caribbean are doctor material; US medical schools' admissions system is broken, or, at the very least, very imperfect. I imagine the some well-deserved seats were stolen by their corrupt cronyism. Bronx now has a psychiatrist whose files on female patients have a hotness rating system at the top, and last visit date, so he can morally date or reach out to his patients when the time is right. In the same place, you have a family med doctor from the caribbean who actually discounts (i.e., pays for) his patients' meds when he knows they cannot pay for them, upwards of $800+.

This article actually paints a rosier picture of the caribbean, in my opinion, but I think it does a good job of showing that caribbean is not a death sentence, and something one can do when all other options are exhausted. Over osteopathic medicine? In some cases, yes. For most? No.

I'm actually very impressed with their average stats. Looks like Caribbean will be competitive in the future.

I just saw this post and you couldn't be more wrong.

You absolutely have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[type12]

I just saw this post and you couldn't be more wrong.

You absolutely have no idea what you're talking about.

Which part? Can you be specific? I could just say you're wrong vaguely too, but I think the NYT has a lot of stuff that could be discussed.