Newly accepted doctoral candidate needing advice about post-doc job outl

[Amber0318]

Hey all,

I was just accepted to my first choice Counseling psych PhD program, and while I'm really excited, I am hesitant to accept right away for a few reasons, but my main reason is my concern about the kinds of jobs I'll be able to find post-doc.

Ideally, I imagine myself working at a clinic, working towards licensure and possibly teaching a class or two part time in my hometown of Oregon. I have a husband and kids so, yes, I'm one of "those people" who hopes to not have to move around my entire life.

So my question is, is this completely unrealistic? Will I be able to find jobs after graduating that will pay the bills?

Salary.com says the starting pay should be about $50,000 a year, which is perfectly fine. Would you all say that this is accurate?

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[erg923]

You are ok with making 5ok after 6-7 years of post Bach training (in that area)? It's only accurate if you accept that salary offer. I would attempt to negotiate, as I really woudn't find that figure acceptable.

I think not moving is realistic but not particularly likely. I work in my hometown but moved for grad school and internship.

 

[docma]

Hey all,

I was just accepted to my first choice Counseling psych PhD program, and while I'm really excited, I am hesitant to accept right away for a few reasons, but my main reason is my concern about the kinds of jobs I'll be able to find post-doc.

Ideally, I imagine myself working at a clinic, working towards licensure and possibly teaching a class or two part time in my hometown of Oregon. I have a husband and kids so, yes, I'm one of "those people" who hopes to not have to move around my entire life.

So my question is, is this completely unrealistic? Will I be able to find jobs after graduating that will pay the bills?

Salary.com says the starting pay should be about $50,000 a year, which is perfectly fine. Would you all say that this is accurate?

Starting pay prior to licensure is more likely to be in the $40,000 range but will bump up after licensure. Counseling psych degrees often have good internship and post-doc access to higher education positions, as well as clinical/medical options so if your program is well established you should have local possibilities.

 

[Amber0318]

You are ok with making 5ok after 6-7 years of post Bach training (in that area)? It's only accurate if you accept that salary offer. I would attempt to negotiate, as I really woudn't find that figure acceptable.

I think not moving is realistic but not particularly likely. I work in my hometown but moved for grad school and internship.

I will be moving for grad school, too, but I am hoping to return for my internship. There are a lot of APA and APPIC accredited internships in the Pacific Northwest. I'm glad to hear that you were able to make it work for you!

I'm glad to hear that you think starting pay should be higher. Compared to the $30,000 I'm currently making, $50,000 seems like a lot. But obviously, I would love to be paid more, but none of us get into psych to make crazy money, right? What would you think would be acceptable? It sounds like 40-50 k while working towards licensure is acceptable, but afterwards would would the typical pay be?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I will be moving for grad school, too, but I am hoping to return for my internship. There are a lot of APA and APPIC accredited internships in the Pacific Northwest. I'm glad to hear that you were able to make it work for you!

I'm glad to hear that you think starting pay should be higher. Compared to the $30,000 I'm currently making, $50,000 seems like a lot. But obviously, I would love to be paid more, but none of us get into psych to make crazy money, right? What would you think would be acceptable? It sounds like 40-50 k while working towards licensure is acceptable, but afterwards would would the typical pay be?

$40-50k for an unlicensed position isn't unusual, no. But if I were licensed and looking for a job, I'd want something more in the $75k-ish range. I feel that being willing to accept something much lower than that unfortunately ends up devaluing the field as a whole in the eyes of others.

 

[calimich]

I'm a 5th year counseling psych phd student going out on internship in the fall. As the years have gone by and more people I know well have graduated from our program I've been encouraged that everyone has found meaningful work within the field. Several have returned to their hometowns; I will be returning to my home state for internship. The types of jobs folks are landing are reflective of their interests and specializations, and counseling psych in general. The modal career is as a staff psychologist in a university counseling center. These people seem to love the benefits of working in an academic setting without the tenure track pressure. They supervise, provide campus outreach, perform learning assessments, and of course practice individual and group therapy -- some also lecture and research. Others have gone the private practice route, often taking an adjunct position on the side. Less common are a couple friends who have found positions with a VA, one with the Air Force, and one who is in a tenure track assistant prof position. Seems kind of strange to me right now, but I can't think of anyone who works for a community clinic

I only talk money with two of these recent grads. The counseling center person started around 45K, pre-licensure, and one of the private practice folks, three years out now, fully licensed is close to 80K. These salaries are in the Midwest.

 

[erg923]

[quote="Amber0318, post: 15019045, member: 544204" It sounds like 40-50 k while working towards licensure is acceptable, but afterwards would would the typical pay be?[/quote]

50K-150K. Its a wide range range due to variablities in location, work setting, and reimbursement streams.

 

[psychrat]

I wouldn't necessarily count on finding an internship in your hometown. I am from the NE and went to school out west with the hopes of matching somewhere close to home for internship, but unfortunately that did not happed. Being very geographically restricted for internship could hurt you. I learned that the hard way and am now going through phase ii and applying all over the usa. And I go to a university based PhD program with excellent match rates.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Counseling Centers, Community Mental Health Centers, and some private practice jobs are frequently on the lower end.

Jobs with the VA are often higher earlier, but then salaries top out by early/mid-career.

AMCs and some private practice opportunities tend to be on the higher side.

Geography, speciality, and personal factors can all be moderating factors.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

First of all congratulations Amber, seems like you were accepted to a program that is near home. This is a big accomplishment. Your next potential geographical difficulty is not post doc but predoctoral internship. Being on this forum you are probably familiar with the internship imbalance and the tremendously stressful situation that currently exists. I recommend you check out the APPIC website and see how many viable internship placements are within your geographical restrictions. Note that less and less applicants receive their top matches and one's chance to match improve significantly with 5-6 interviews. I would be concerned at that hurdle before post doc.

Its not an ideal situation and a lot of people on this board (including myself) consider it a rite of passage to consistently have to pack up an move for our careers. Its a bit of a cognitive dissonance; "if I did, so should everyone else." But no matter what we think this is the current state of things. While none of us possess the ability to see into the future, I think the problem will only grow worse. The currently statistics indicate a plateauing of the problem but a lot of other factors indicate that the situation will become worse in the future. One of the biggest indicators is that applicant's matching to their first and second place choices has been decreasing.

The post doc situation is a bit less restrictive than the predoctoral internship from my point of view. I know a lot of the people around me have become more geographically restrictive for their post doc and have been successful. Of course, the trade off is that their positions may not be ideal. If you are serious about staying home for post doc ask your DCT about what post docs are around and how often trainees from your program get those positions.

As far as salary, it will range. Generally speaking, the VAs are the best paying post docs in an area (salaries are based on cost of living). The NIH sets a template for salaries in research positions. UCCs seem to pay the same across the country and usually in the mid-lower end of the range. CMHC are usually in the mid-lower range as well. For post doc (in reality you are still an unlicensed trainee) in your region 50K is extremely unlikely. 50k on the lower end of a starting salary for licensed position at a UCC or CMHC. Teaching class during post doc is also uncommon, unless you mean trying to get a job as an adjunct at some community college near you. That would depend on opportunities and outside of your regular working hours. As I understand, those positions usually do not pay too much, not to mention you would probably be teaching 4 nights a week after your primary job. There are some post docs that have a teaching component (e.g., a great looking post doc at Texas Tech) but they are usually research positions at liberal arts institutions. Again, your DCT will have better knowledge of likely post docs in your area.

 

[Amber0318]

Thank you all for your responses, this has been extremely helpful. I went through hell when I first started my master's level classes when I found out that my starting pay upon graduation would be very, very low - at which point I withdrew from the program and began working towards my PhD. Now that I've been accepted I began worrying that there was something I didn't know about the job market and I would be going into a similar situation where the degree wouldn't be worth the time and effort.

You all have assuaged my fears, it's clear that won't be the case with a PhD, and I'll make a concerted effort to work towards several different internships and not put my eggs all in one basket.

I will be accepting admittance tomorrow morning. Thank you all for your thoughtful responses!