Next Steps?

[amonamarth]

Hello friends,

I've recently completed 2 years of a hard science post bac at my local state university. I managed a 3.81 in 50 credit hours, and the courses were all upper div bio, biochem, pchem, ochem and math courses along with an MCAT prep course that helped me get a 32Q.

As I look at my record, I'm wondering if maybe an SMP would have been the better option to begin with.

My cGPA for the last 2.5 years of coursework is 3.86 and my sGPA is 4.0.

Here's the catch: My GPA going into the postbacc program was 2.83 (got decimated in a very competitive engineering program).

If I were to look at all of my years of coursework combined, I'd be sitting at a cGPA of 3.27 and a sGPA of 3.39.

We all know these GPA numbers aren't competitive for allopathic schools, however on the GPA-MCAT grid from AMCAS, there was ~40% acceptance rate for people in my GPA bracket. My ECs have been solid for the past 3 years and include hundreds of hours in volunteer work, clinical work, shadowing and mentoring. LoRs are stellar and I have faculty support/sponsorship from my postbacc program.

I know 40% isn't the best, however it's not exactly terrible either.

At this point, I'm really depending on my recent grades and MCAT to get me into an allopathic program but I fear that my grades from 10 years ago will still be obsessed over by the Adcoms.

Should I do an SMP or just go all out, apply, and pray I land the 40% pool? I really don't want to drop another 20-30 grand when I have a decent chance of getting in as it stands now (or do I?).

Sorry for the long post, and thank you for any input provided.

-Chris

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[wanderer]

I don't have anything to add, but nice username!



(BTW, I do think your odds are better because of the upward trend, but I think there are others more qualified to make that statement than I.)

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

my impression is that SMP's are thought of as a last-ditch effort for applicants with low GPAs. given that your early coursework is from quite a few years ago, and you've demonstrated a marked improvement more recently, i would recommend applying (broadly) and seeing what happens. your postbacc sciGPA is 4, your MCAT is respectable, and you seem confident in your LORs; just be very careful about school selection.

anyone else weighing in here?

 

[Catalystik]

Should I do an SMP or just go all out, apply, and pray I land the 40% pool? I really don't want to drop another 20-30 grand when I have a decent chance of getting in as it stands now (or do I?).

You don't give us a lot of basis for "getting to know you" in your brief first post, but from what we know, you are a nontraditional applicant, which causes a number of med schools to give less weight to the earlier coursework, and you have a steep upward grade trend, which is very helpful.

Your path from here depends on how much of a hurry you're in. If you apply next summer, I'd say your odds are better than you think they are. They could be better yet if there are other modifying aspects to your application that adcomms like to see.

To enhance your odds, there should be a backup plan. I'd suggest either 1) applying to DO med schools, too, which are more forgiving of past academic problems and have a built-in grade forgiveness policy, or
2) apply to an SMP if MD is essential to your happiness. You could either a) wait until you have a likely-to-have-failed application season to apply next spring 2012, intending to start the program in fall 2012 if you don't get an acceptance. Or
b) you can think about applying to an SMP now, still start your AMCAS application season next June 2011, start the SMP in fall 2011, and potentially
i) drop the second term of the SMP if you get an acceptance on the basis of fall SMP grades (saw this happen once),
ii) get an acceptance off a waitlist in the spring on the basis of the second term of SMP grades, or
iii) reapply the spring you finish the SMP with a full year of grades on your Primary.

 

[amonamarth]

my impression is that SMP's are thought of as a last-ditch effort for applicants with low GPAs. given that your early coursework is from quite a few years ago, and you've demonstrated a marked improvement more recently, i would recommend applying (broadly) and seeing what happens. your postbacc sciGPA is 4, your MCAT is respectable, and you seem confident in your LORs; just be very careful about school selection.

anyone else weighing in here?

This is the impression I also had of SMPs. I heard from many peers that undergraduate performance from any type of applicant is where the med schools want to see the academic performance, not from a masters program.

I wish I knew the difference between a traditional masters and an SMP BEFORE spending 2 years and 23k in a state program!

At any rate, I agree with your line of thinking. I think it's more than just hard numbers. Sure, the med schools for the sake of expediency and efficiency like to simply see a 3.6+ and a 31+ MCAT to decide if an applicant warrants further review, but I think this approach is probably the standard at the most competitive schools that are known for their unwillingness to deviate from tradition.

I think many times they forget that there is an actual human being with a story to tell behind every application, and good numbers don't necessarily yield great physicians.

I read somewhere not too long ago that a few reputable medical schools award extra application points to applicants for each year over the age of 24 up to age 30.

Anyway, thanks for your post

You don't give us a lot of basis for "getting to know you" in your brief first post, but from what we know, you are a nontraditional applicant, which causes a number of med schools to give less weight to the earlier coursework, and you have a steep upward grade trend, which is very helpful.

Hi Catalystik,

Thanks for taking the time to post. Yes, I am a nontrad. I'm currently 36 and looking go into primary care, so I will be aiming to practice at ~44.

My background consists of many setbacks. They are the kinds of setbacks that happen to anyone over the course of their lives, but the majority of mine happened during my 3 years at UCI as an engineering undergrad. The hyper-competitive nature of the program and the break-neck pace of the quarter system in combination with the increased frequency of "life issues" ultimately led to a recipe for disaster that I simply couldn't recover from.

My extracurricular activities consist of several years of volunteer math and science private and group tutoring, 2 years working as an EMT in an ambulance, 100 hours of MD shadowing, physician interviews about the frustrations of primary care and where they think primary care is headed, and weekly work at the local Ronald MacDonald House charities.

Your path from here depends on how much of a hurry you're in. If you apply next summer, I'd say your odds are better than you think they are. They could be better yet if there are other modifying aspects to your application that adcomms like to see.

To enhance your odds, there should be a backup plan. I'd suggest either 1) applying to DO med schools, too, which are more forgiving of past academic problems and have a built-in grade forgiveness policy, or
2) apply to an SMP if MD is essential to your happiness. You could either a) wait until you have a likely-to-have-failed application season to apply next spring 2012, intending to start the program in fall 2012 if you don't get an acceptance. Or
b) you can think about applying to an SMP now, still start your AMCAS application season next June 2011, start the SMP in fall 2011, and potentially
i) drop the second term of the SMP if you get an acceptance on the basis of fall SMP grades (saw this happen one),
ii) get an acceptance off a waitlit in the spring on the basis of the second term of SMP grade, or
iii) reapply the spring you finish the SMP with a full year of grades on your Primary.

This is really good information that I need to look over and consider the possible outcomes.

Going to a DO school is definitely still in the cards. One of the things that turns me off about the DO route is the complexity toward the end with regard to residencies and the COMLEX/USMLE.

The fact that DO residency programs aren't funded nearly as well as MD residency programs leads me to want to pursue an allopathic residency.

Historically, osteopathic students that apply to MD residencies don't seem to perform nearly as well as their allopathic counterparts on the USMLE although I'm sure this is easily remedied by extra studying and preparation.

Also, the thought of having to put in an extra year to complete an osteopathic internship (unless I find a dually accredited program) is one extra logistic I'd rather avoid if i can.

I'm not going to lie...the "DOs are people that couldn't get into medical school and they're not real doctors" stigma bothers me. It's a stigma that is sure to be amplified in an allopathic residency and probably more so post-residency when it comes to research and peer respect.

Being a product of Corporate America, I understand the great lengths some people will go through to belittle and demean colleagues they deem as "undeserving" and "inferior" if it means elevating one's personal status or providing some self-preservation. I'd imagine it's not very different in a residency or hospital setting either.

At any rate, I really appreciate your input. You made a few suggestions that I completely overlooked and am seriously going to consider as I venture forward.

Thank you.

 

[Catalystik]

You might consider checking out SDN's NonTrad Forum and reading about the experiences of other folks in your shoes.