No research...but want to do clinical psych

[annieb727]

I have no research experience, though I would have liked to have gotten some, I just didn't know to look for it or do it.

There are three schools I am interested in right now -- my area of passion is Trauma. Northern Illinois University, University of Missouri - St. Louis, and Nova Southeastern University as they have trauma focus that I like.

I would like to do clinical psychology program. I presently have an MA in Clinical Mental Health Counseling, graduated in 2015 with a 3.98 GPA. Certificate in Trauma Studies. I did spend a year as a graduate student assistant in the program, helped teach basic counseling skills class, and lots of grading papers.
I am in the process of completing training in EMDR. Working toward certification.
I did a 1000 hour internship for my MA. I have been working in Community Mental Health for the past year and am at about 2000 hours - should be able to get licensed as therapist by June/July.

BA - in Intercultural studies (just a few classes short of psych minor) 3.90 GPA (graduated 2001).

I took my GRE in 2014, but didn't do that well - V - 153, Q - 156. AW - 4.5.

So is it even worth applying to any of these schools yet? How does one get research experience? I live in the middle of no where - so there is nothing locally. I am also a single mom (finished my MA as a single mom).

My end goal - I would love to live somewhere where clinical psychologists can get prescriptive privileges - so Illinois, New Mexico, or Louisiana as well as studying some psychopharmacology after becoming a psychologist. There's such a shortage of psychiatrists now, and I would love to be able to fill some of that need.

Thanks for your time and suggestions!

Annie

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[erg923]

I have no research experience, though I would have liked to have gotten some, I just didn't know to look for it or do it.

There are three schools I am interested in right now -- my area of passion is Trauma. Northern Illinois University, University of Missouri - St. Louis, and Nova Southeastern University as they have trauma focus that I like.

I would like to do clinical psychology program. I presently have an MA in Clinical Mental Health Counseling, graduated in 2015 with a 3.98 GPA. Certificate in Trauma Studies. I did spend a year as a graduate student assistant in the program, helped teach basic counseling skills class, and lots of grading papers.
I am in the process of completing training in EMDR. Working toward certification.
I did a 1000 hour internship for my MA. I have been working in Community Mental Health for the past year and am at about 2000 hours - should be able to get licensed as therapist by June/July.

BA - in Intercultural studies (just a few classes short of psych minor) 3.90 GPA (graduated 2001).

I took my GRE in 2014, but didn't do that well - V - 153, Q - 156. AW - 4.5.

So is it even worth applying to any of these schools yet? How does one get research experience? I live in the middle of no where - so there is nothing locally. I am also a single mom (finished my MA as a single mom).

My end goal - I would love to live somewhere where clinical psychologists can get prescriptive privileges - so Illinois, New Mexico, or Louisiana as well as studying some psychopharmacology after becoming a psychologist. There's such a shortage of psychiatrists now, and I would love to be able to fill some of that need.

Thanks for your time and suggestions!

Annie

Probably not.

 

[annieb727]

Any suggestions on how to improve my chances?

 

[WisNeuro]

The lack of research, and relatively low GRE scores are gonna be a killer. The clinical experience is nice, but after a minimal amount of clinical experience, it's diminishing returns after that.

As for improving your chances for a funded, reputable program? You need some research experience, plain and simple. If you can get some paid experience, great. But, those opportunities are fairly limited in most places. Also, regarding the EMDR stuff, I'd be careful on how much I parlay that into relate-able clinical experience. Many in the trauma field view it is an exposure based therapy with neurosciency words and distracting lights thrown on that don't add anything in an incremental way.

 

[LM02]

What is your end goal here? Sounds like you are passionate about clinical work, based on your initial post. If that's the case, it may make more sense to combine your MA with a nurse practitioner degree, and focus on clinical work with some med management.

You would have much more flexibility with that combo, as well.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Agreed with above.

It says you're in Lynchburg...what colleges/universities are near you? Liberty? Lynchburg College? I would start there: Look into the psychology departments and see if anyone is doing research that fits with your interests, then contact them and ask if you can volunteer if though you are not a student (but if your alma mater is closeby...start there first). You'll 100% need research experience to be considered at the programs you mentioned. If you can get a few (2-3) publications or even research presentations at conferences, it will help you better develop your application.

All the clinical stuff you're doing is great, but it is not entirely necessary because any doctoral program will train you clinically. Being able to intelligible understand and discuss research (and it's limitations) is where a doctoral program needs you. Most programs (FSPS excluded, but you don't want to go that route) need you to be well-versed in research BEFORE you begin. They want to teach you the clinical aspect and fine tune your research skills so you may be a strong consumer of scientific knowledge, NOT the other way around (e.g. teach you research methodology and fine tune your clinical skills).

I agree...I'd also consider taking the GRE again too.

Good luck!

 

[annieb727]

Thanks for your input everyone

 

[annieb727]

Oh I'm actually in small town, rural Indiana now...just didn't update that recently. I did my MA at Liberty though.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Oh I'm actually in small town, rural Indiana now...just didn't update that recently. I did my MA at Liberty though.

So start looking at the universities around you in IN to see what research volunteering you can do. Send out cover letters that state your goal, what you can offer (even data entry will get your foot in the door), and be honest about the fact that if you trade your time, you'd like to benefit by being on a paper or perhaps present data findings at conferences. You only need one lab to say yes...to get you on your way. One lab I worked for (but it was paid clinical research) had me on about 6-8 conferences presentations and one paper going into the second year (It was a highly productive lab). Oh, perhaps ...see if you can do that too...combine your clinical work with research and get paid to be involved as someone who delivers a research intervention. That would be ideal because you'd have income and pick up the research involvement along the way.

Again, you may not be able to follow others' paths, and may have to carve one out as your own trailblazer.

Yeah, and I now share the same sentiment about EMDR that WisNeuro suggested - In fact, several years ago I got into an online battle here trying to defend it b/c I had a supervisor that attested to it, but alas it does not have the widespread support that other trauma-focused therapies have. So I jumped off the EMDR bandwagon. But, no matter...as long as you're open to others' opinions and not rigid, you'll be fine to discuss your experiences.

 

[PsychPsyance]

People here are often good at stifling dreams, so I'll offer a different side to this. When I applied, I had zero research experience, but I wrote some compelling research statements. I knew I wanted to do research (despite having never done research) and made this known in my statement and interviews. I got into a funded PhD program and am now a faculty member at a clinical PhD program. Neither of my current students had any previous research experience, but both now have multiple publications (some in the top journals in the field) and one recently submitted an F31. Now, the "traditional" route is definitely to have some research experience, but I don't think this is a necessity. In fact, some of the best students I've seen have had no research experience as undergrads. You can get into funded clinical PhD programs, but you will likely need to cast a wide net. Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions.

 

[CheetahGirl]

People here are often good at stifling dreams, so I'll offer a different side to this. When I applied, I had zero research experience, but I wrote some compelling research statements. I knew I wanted to do research (despite having never done research) and made this known in my statement and interviews. I got into a funded PhD program and am now a faculty member at a clinical PhD program. Neither of my current students had any previous research experience, but both now have multiple publications (some in the top journals in the field) and one recently submitted an F31. Now, the "traditional" route is definitely to have some research experience, but I don't think this is a necessity. In fact, some of the best students I've seen have had no research experience as undergrads. You can get into funded clinical PhD programs, but you will likely need to cast a wide net. Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions.

You (and your students) are certainly the exception to the rule, @PsychPsyance, but it is good that you are here (SDN) to offer that different side.

I hope I didn't come across as a 'stifler,' but there's also a healthy dose of realism, which most deliver here. No point wasting anyone's time and money, right?

 

[Istilldontknow]

I would still try for it, especially nova. My gre scores were WAY worse than yours and i only had a year of research experience. I was accepted to nova (though i went elsewhere) and several other reputuable psyd programs. I dont think youll get into a phd program though

 

[deleted343839]

What is your end goal here? Sounds like you are passionate about clinical work, based on your initial post. If that's the case, it may make more sense to combine your MA with a nurse practitioner degree, and focus on clinical work with some med management.

You would have much more flexibility with that combo, as well.

+1, this is excellent advice. I'm not saying don't become a psychologist, but considering your interests and goals, psychiatric nurse practitioner is an alternative career that is worth considering. The return on investment (less time in school, higher average earning potential) is very good.

 

[Central_Perk]

The NP degree still requires a fair bit of schooling. I looked into it, and if you don't have an undergrad RN degree, it can still take 5+ years. First you need to get another bachelor's degree (BSN), for which the quickest route is an accelerate BSN program. Those programs have several pre-reqs. Even though I was a science major in undergrad, I was looking at a year's worth of pre-req courses (and the accompanying charge) before I could apply. Then, the BSN takes 1-2 years, depending on the program. After this, you're an RN. The field is changing toward requiring a Doctorate of Nursing Practice to be a nurse practitioner (DNP). This is probably at least 2-3 years beyond the BSN (it's different at every school). Additionally, unlike PhD programs, all of this is tuition coming out of your own pocket. Many people work part time as an RN while completing the DNP, which makes the time to completion even longer. All told, by the time I did my pre-reqs, BSN, and DNP, I was looking at being done around the same time I would be for a PhD in clinical psych, without the benefit of tuition remission or a stipend. The median earnings for a psychiatric NP are around 90-100k. After you factor in the debt, I'm not sure how much more you actually earn overall. You also have to consider that during a large part of your training, you're in fields not related to psych. It's definitely a viable degree alternative, and I'm sure a rewarding field, but the time and effort is not significantly less than a PhD program.

 

[deleted760483]

I'm surprised at how important many of you see undergrad research experience to be. Unless you go to a major university those opportunities aren't particularly easy to come by. I went to a relatively small liberal arts college for undergrad and only one of the 4 psych professors there was actively doing research. I got really lucky that he was my advisor and strongly encouraged me to be involved in his research otherwise I wouldn't have had any.

 

[deleted343839]

The NP degree still requires a fair bit of schooling. I looked into it, and if you don't have an undergrad RN degree, it can still take 5+ years. First you need to get another bachelor's degree (BSN), for which the quickest route is an accelerate BSN program. Those programs have several pre-reqs. Even though I was a science major in undergrad, I was looking at a year's worth of pre-req courses (and the accompanying charge) before I could apply. Then, the BSN takes 1-2 years, depending on the program. After this, you're an RN. The field is changing toward requiring a Doctorate of Nursing Practice to be a nurse practitioner (DNP). This is probably at least 2-3 years beyond the BSN (it's different at every school). Additionally, unlike PhD programs, all of this is tuition coming out of your own pocket. Many people work part time as an RN while completing the DNP, which makes the time to completion even longer. All told, by the time I did my pre-reqs, BSN, and DNP, I was looking at being done around the same time I would be for a PhD in clinical psych, without the benefit of tuition remission or a stipend. The median earnings for a psychiatric NP are around 90-100k. After you factor in the debt, I'm not sure how much more you actually earn overall. You also have to consider that during a large part of your training, you're in fields not related to psych. It's definitely a viable degree alternative, and I'm sure a rewarding field, but the time and effort is not significantly less than a PhD program.

Yes, the field keeps making noise about transitioning to a doctoral standard but meanwhile, "alternate entry" graduate nursing programs allow people with non-nursing degrees to do an accelerated course of study and graduate with an MSN in 3 years. Many of these programs have at least 1 nurse practitioner track. A lot of traditionally trained nurses dislike these programs and I think they have some valid criticisms, but even so, it's an option. At the university I attended for grad school a non-nursing degree holder could become a psych NP in 3 years. It's not the route I'd go, personally, but it's an undervalued career alternative IMO.

 

[EmotRegulation]

We see research as important because most of the people posting on this thread are people who have gone through schooling and have the terminal degree. There are at least 2 current faculty members on this thread, myself included. Getting into a clinical PhD program is extremely competitive, and research experience is one of the things that demonstrates a commitment to one of the major activities of the degree. Like PsychPsyance, I didn't have a ton of research experience before I applied to graduate school because I was several years out of undergrad and working multiple jobs to stay afloat. I got a little experience, and it was enough to get good letters and to be able to demonstrate (to my letter writers, mostly) that I had the skills needed to succeed in research.

 

[PsychScience]

People here are often good at stifling dreams, so I'll offer a different side to this. When I applied, I had zero research experience, but I wrote some compelling research statements. I knew I wanted to do research (despite having never done research) and made this known in my statement and interviews. I got into a funded PhD program and am now a faculty member at a clinical PhD program. Neither of my current students had any previous research experience, but both now have multiple publications (some in the top journals in the field) and one recently submitted an F31. Now, the "traditional" route is definitely to have some research experience, but I don't think this is a necessity. In fact, some of the best students I've seen have had no research experience as undergrads. You can get into funded clinical PhD programs, but you will likely need to cast a wide net. Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions.

I highly doubt that any of the people who regularly post do so with the intent of "stifling dreams". Rather, the intent is to give people a realistic picture of what the application process looks like. Clinical psychology programs are competitive, PhD programs even more so, and funded PhD programs may only admit between 3-5% of applicants. Your point is well stated, it is not a hard and fast rule that you must have extensive research to get into these programs.

However, the OP actually posted two things that are going to be hurdles for admission. (1) No research (2) Low GRE scores. With both of those issues admission to a reputable program is ridiculously unlikely unless there is some crazy compelling background story that we are not getting. You are correct, there are phenomenal applicants with little to no research experience that do get accepted. But honestly, how probable is this when combined with low GRE scores?

In the situation described, the most helpful advice to the OP is to (1) Consider an alternative route to achieving your goal which may not require you to change anything on your application OR (2) Improve your application.

To encourage the person to apply with both low scores and no research to reputable funded PhD programs is setting them up for failure.

 

[EmotRegulation]

Since when is a 309 combined a "bad" GRE score? Those are absolutely consistent with GRE scores from people who get into my program, and in a couple of other places I looked. On the lower side, yes, but within the typical ranges that I see.

 

[LM02]

We see research as important because most of the people posting on this thread are people who have gone through schooling and have the terminal degree. There are at least 2 current faculty members on this thread, myself included. Getting into a clinical PhD program is extremely competitive, and research experience is one of the things that demonstrates a commitment to one of the major activities of the degree. Like PsychPsyance, I didn't have a ton of research experience before I applied to graduate school because I was several years out of undergrad and working multiple jobs to stay afloat. I got a little experience, and it was enough to get good letters and to be able to demonstrate (to my letter writers, mostly) that I had the skills needed to succeed in research.

To add to this, graduate students in clinical psychology are expected to do research - which forms the basis of the master's degree and the doctorate, at a minimum, and also may be the primary focus of many faculty members in their mentorship model. So as EmotRegulation said, getting some experience prior to graduate school is more than just "checking a box," but rather demonstrates that an applicant understands what it is like to conduct psychological research, and is in a position to make a commitment to pursue some as a graduate student (even if you do not go on to become a professor down the road). Further, the experience of graduate school will be really unpleasant if you are merely "tolerating" the research component of a clinical psychology PhD.

If the original poster is not invested in research, and is otherwise passionate about clinical work (and has eyes toward obtaining some kind of Rx privilege), it seems like there might be alternative pathways to achieve the end goal. Given what sound like geographical limitations as well, an alternative path may indeed be a realistic option.