Non-Caribbean International Medical School Options

[UBC2014]

I don't get it - did this just change in the last couple years??? Can't speak for NZ but I was (briefly) in allopathic school in Australia, which I chose over US DO BECAUSE I knew I wanted to be able to practice anywhere...

Clearly you messed up.

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[MissGlassSir]

Clearly you messed up.

Wow, thanks.

So you're saying that for-sure US DOs can practice anywhere and everywhere in the developed world? 'Cause I dunno if it was you or someone else who posted that link regarding regulations in the UK but it sounded unclear and/or at their discretion. I mean, I've literally been told this by a British DO who's teaching OMM in the States, who cannot practice in the US (outside of academia) and has to specify "DO (UK)" on her bio, coat, etc. I get that that doesn't mean it necessarily works the same in reverse but I've just heard that SO many times, from health professionals, and from at least one reputable website, albeit a few years ago...

 

[Mad Jack]

I don't get it - did this just change in the last couple years??? Can't speak for NZ but I was (briefly) in allopathic school in Australia, which I chose over US DO BECAUSE I knew I wanted to be able to practice anywhere...

We've been able to practice in Australia since 2013, the UK since 2005, and New Zealand since 2009.

 

[Mad Jack]

Wow, thanks.

So you're saying that for-sure US DOs can practice anywhere and everywhere in the developed world? 'Cause I dunno if it was you or someone else who posted that link regarding regulations in the UK but it sounded unclear and/or at their discretion. I mean, I've literally been told this by a British DO who's teaching OMM in the States, who cannot practice in the US (outside of academia) and has to specify "DO (UK)" on her bio, coat, etc. I get that that doesn't mean it necessarily works the same in reverse but I've just heard that SO many times, from health professionals, and from at least one reputable website, albeit a few years ago...

We aren't allowed to practice everywhere in the developed world, look at the damn map I posted twice. It shows where we can and can't. There might be changes to our ability to practice in the EU, but those same changes will bar 4 year US MD, Australian, Irish, and British grads from practicing there, not just DOs- it is about minimum length of training being 5 years of medical school per EU mandate.

As to British DOs, they are osteopaths, but osteopathic physicians. They only learn manual medicine and nothing more. In the US, they're equivalent would be the chiropractor. That is why they are not allowed to practice here outside of the capacity of OMM- they do not have a complete medical education.

Finally, as to your discussion about being able to practice "anywhere in the developed world," that is an ability held by no physician, DO or MD, as most countries will not allow you to practice without completing their local GME, due to the wide variations in clinical practice, languages, and health systems present from country to country. There are some exceptions- US physicians, MD and DO, can use their GME to work in Canada because we largely utilize the same GME system, plus certain specialties like FM and EM have recognition that allows them to work freely in Australia and NZ (and vice versa). We used to have a mutual recognition deal with the UK for a couple of specialties, but that fell through a few years back- nowadays any US physician that wants to relocate has to repeat GME to work in Britain as a consultant. Many Scandinavian countries will take US MDs and DOs, but the difficulty is that you have to pass a language proficiency test in one of the most difficult languages in the world. Every other European country requires that you complete the medical licensing exam in their native language, in addition to completing GME all over again, if you want to practice with a non-EU qualification. EU qualifications offer some limited interoperability between credentials, but not with GME, so depending on the country, even if you obtain your credentials in the EU, you're still repeating residency if you want to do anything longer than a locum in the backwoods of Finland.

 

[Mad Jack]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine

The Wikipedia page for DOs under "International Variations" explains the difference between US DOs and all other DOs. The international practice rights section under international variations summarizes a licensure survey we do every couple of years, as our international practice rights tend to grow by two or three countries per year. The linked source can only be looked at by AOA members, but, as an AOA member, I can assure you the link is 100% legit.

 

[deleted158872]

I did a VERY brief stint at University of Queensland (after turning down MSIH) and was horrified... I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. 600-or-so peeps in a class, crazy class schedule, hot/humid like you've (hopefully) never imagined, and the somewhat underqualified (and awesome unpersonable - no interview or recs required!) North Americans are supplementing top-performing Aussie students with their outrageous tuition checks. The admin in Australia was good but the admin in the US (in New York) knows nothinggg and they're
like "Here's where you show up, here's when you show up - see ya then!" No help whatsoever. And while I'd certainly be more "proud" of a UQ degree than one from a stigmatized Caribbean school ('cause not all are anymore!), their residency placements have been atrocious, unless you wanna stay at Ochsner hospital in New Orleans. Two other points about UQ... (1) Because the Ochsner program is very new, the Australian Medical Counsel keeps changing the rules for just how many clinical hours Americans have to put in on Aussie soil... Initially promised lengthy holidays at home, by the time I got there the Council had made it so that my first two summers and winters would have to be spent in Australia in order to complete their requirements... Not UQ's fault in the slightest, but it was scary to know I wouldn't see my family (or have a break, really) for two years; (2) The outrageously high Step 1 scores they advertise are the result of this oneee guy getting an absolutely off-the-charts score (he has a website in which he outlines the 644795338 hours he spent studying, and, since he was only one of a few kids to sit for the exam, he majorly threw off the mean... And I've heard that, like most (all?) Caribbean schools, they only let students take Step 1 once they've passed a practice Step, so they don't let the underperformers take it and screw up their stats. Some things I will say in favor of UQ, however... Their clinical coaching is REALLY good (right off the bat) and their American (and maybe Canadian?) grads have a huuuge leg up for obtaining residencies at Ochsner, if you're cool with that; i.e., if you're willing to stay in NOLA you're more-or-less guaranteed a match.

some things you said are not true.
UQ doesn't administer any test to deter anyone from taking Step 1.
there's an 8-week elective to do in summer after 1st year (which sucks, I know).
average USMLE score for this year (50+ sample) is 224.
does anyone think a match list like this is "atrocious"? i don't. http://www.mededpath.org/residency_match.html (note there is no NY match yet because the program is not approved in NY yet, but it will be soon).

 

[Wonwander]

Does anybody have any information or experience with how the St. George's London school in Nicosia, Cyprus ranks up against Caribbean schools?
It's hard to find experiential information on their students returning to the US.

 

[greysanatomy1234]

Recent Prague graduate. Haven't taken my steps yet. Will apply to next years match. Around June I'll be able to tell you all how I did.

There are a few Charles faculties of medicine in and around Prague. Tuition is about 15k usd at all of them. You can apply for student loans through FAFSA.

Here is the quick breakdown. These schools primarily exist to produce Czech doctors. The English parallels are tiny compared to the Czech programs. We aren't an important revenue stream for them either. We're taught in English, and most of the instructors speak English quite well. The doctors in Prague are the best doctors in the country, and the medical faculties are also the best in the country. The Czech students are literally their best and brightest. The foreign students are mostly those who couldn't get accepted in their own countries, and ones who come from countries with inferior education systems. I know a Polish girl who declined a free spot in Poland, because her parents felt the education was better in Prague. We're held to the same standards as the Czechs, and the standard is very high.

Expect to be treated very harshly, and receive no support or accommodation for the first three years. As you enter your clinical years you're treated a little better, and by the final year you're treated as a fellow physician.

My incoming class was 90 students. By second year we were less than 30. At graduation there were less than 20 of us left. The Czechs don't fail quite as much as we do, but their attrition rate is also well over 50%. If you don't have the goods, you're out. All examinations are oral, you'll be given a list of questions beforehand. You pick a few at random and are then orally examined by one or more doctors for 10 minutes to an hour or so. You have three attempts over the course of the year, if you fail all three you're out. Even our best students fail exams from time to time. I've been on my third attempt twice, it is incredibly stressful. I've seen several people expelled in their fifth year.

You'll receive an incredibly sound theoretical education. I feel perfectly comfortable talking with UK, American, and German graduates. In particular I find we're sharper than the UK graduates. I feel that we're a lot more emotionally resilient too, it's an environment that toughens you up very quickly.

You also get to live in Prague. It's really an amazing city. You'll make friends from all over the world. We have an incredible sense of camaraderie, medical students in the city really stick together. After graduation we go out of our way to help each other too. I know graduates working all over europe, and some in the states. I highly recommend studying in Prague, as long as you know what you're getting into.

Hi, do you know anything about Charles graduates that went on to do US residencies?