Non psych months during intern year?

[shojimoji]

during the days that are off on non psych months like pediatrics or medicine for instance, do you take call during those weekend/off days for psychiatry? i am just trying to gather what the general expectations are from program to program. if you are doing an off-service rotation, your clinical duties should be limited to that specialty in my opinion.

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[Shikima]

More than likely.

 

[Armadillos]

In general as an intern you will just be doing whatever the other services interns do on whatever service your currently rotating on. A couple programs do a lot of there neuro/IM in outpatient clinics so you may cover a little bit of psych call on those outpatient months,But seems rare.

 

[hamstergang]

Varies by program, so you'll have to ask each one. At mine, when on IM we did not do psych calls (there's no way to do so without breaking rules since the IM floor months are so busy), but we did do psych didactics. On neuro, we did psych calls.

 

[NickNaylor]

At most (all?) of the programs that I interviewed at you didn't take any psych call while on off-service rotations.

 

[wolfvgang22]

It varies by program. I did psych call, but never had to do call for other services like IM.

 

[notdeadyet]

Opposite of wolfvgang22. Psych call only when on psych, off-service-specific call when off-service.

It's going to vary by program. One likely not-too-generalizable-trend seems to be that programs that talk about psych interns full part of the the training/team of their off-service teams tend to do off-service-specific call.

 

[Armadillos]

Opposite of wolfvgang22. Psych call only when on psych, off-service-specific call when off-service.

It's going to vary by program. One likely not-too-generalizable-trend seems to be that programs that talk about psych interns full part of the the training/team of their off-service teams tend to do off-service-specific call.

Granted in general IM/Neuro interns don't do much traditional call regardless bc of night float. Also generally an upper level resident is seeing majority of new consults and interns are doing mostly cross coverage stuff or admissions. So in general your not going to have some psych pgy1 carrying the neuro stroke pager or whatever

 

[shojimoji]

Opposite of wolfvgang22. Psych call only when on psych, off-service-specific call when off-service.

It's going to vary by program. One likely not-too-generalizable-trend seems to be that programs that talk about psych interns full part of the the training/team of their off-service teams tend to do off-service-specific call.

Yes, i should clarify in my program we do 1 month of medicine and 2 months of primary care (choice of FM, peds, or IM), during FM, you have weekends off, during that time, you are required to do psych call. I don't know how it would work with the work hour limit of 80 hours/ week? should I not try and report any hours over the limit? my program is known for being malignant, but being FMG, I am glad to have had a spot this match cycle and I want to keep my program running afloat.

 

[Armadillos]

Yes, i should clarify in my program we do 1 month of medicine and 2 months of primary care (choice of FM, peds, or IM), during FM, you have weekends off, during that time, you are required to do psych call. I don't know how it would work with the work hour limit of 80 hours/ week? should I not try and report any hours over the limit? my program is known for being malignant, but being FMG, I am glad to have had a spot this match cycle and I want to keep my program running afloat.

If its outpatient FM/IM then even if you had 2 twelve hr weekend shifts a week your probably still not that close to 80 hrs. But that would really suck and would be a lame move by the program

 

[splik]

they need to give you 4 days off a month so you shouldnt be working every single day. it is not uncommon at smaller programs to have you cover psych call on off-service rotations as this balances the call a little more throughout the year.

also the 80 hours is averaged out over 4 weeks. so if you work 100 hours one week, and 60 hours the next that is still allowed.

 

[shojimoji]

If its outpatient FM/IM then even if you had 2 twelve hr weekend shifts a week your probably still not that close to 80 hrs. But that would really suck and would be a lame move by the program

Well one of the FP months is outpatient and one of them is in-patient. Since we get the weekends off for these months, we have to cover psych call during the weekends.

Also, we received email from the pc asking us to choose our vacation time now before having our service schedule fixed, Is this typical?

 

[Mass Effect]

during the days that are off on non psych months like pediatrics or medicine for instance, do you take call during those weekend/off days for psychiatry? i am just trying to gather what the general expectations are from program to program. if you are doing an off-service rotation, your clinical duties should be limited to that specialty in my opinion.

As others have said, it depends on your program. At some, you do and at some, you don't. As for ACGME rules, there will be months when you record your duty hours specifically for ACGME purposes. Don't lie. If your program goes over the work-hour limits, this needs to be reported. If you're not getting your one day off in seven when averaged over 4 weeks, this should be reported as well.

 

[shojimoji]

i understand that this is program dependent, i just wanted to get a sense of what happens in most programs, and i think mine tends to gravitate away from the general trend.

 

[hamstergang]

Also, we received email from the pc asking us to choose our vacation time now before having our service schedule fixed, Is this typical?

It varies.

 

[splik]

im not sure it is all that helpful for you to think about what is or isn't typical. sometimes ignorance is bliss. you have already said you matched into a program that isn't ideal, but are grateful that you have matched. Whatever they are telling you is the way things are done where you are. 4 years will fly by and at the end of it you will be a psychiatrist and will be free to do what you want (assuming you dont have any visa restrictions). you can always fasttrack and escape if it really is that awful (though if it is truly malignant then they won't allow you to fasttrack!)

 

[shojimoji]

regarding reporting hours, i don't think i will be going over 80 hours, and as another poster said, its an average over a monthy anyhow.

 

[shojimoji]

im not sure it is all that helpful for you to think about what is or isn't typical. sometimes ignorance is bliss. you have already said you matched into a program that isn't ideal, but are grateful that you have matched. Whatever they are telling you is the way things are done where you are. 4 years will fly by and at the end of it you will be a psychiatrist and will be free to do what you want (assuming you dont have any visa restrictions). you can always fasttrack and escape if it really is that awful (though if it is truly malignant then they won't allow you to fasttrack!)

you are 100% correct. i think the grass always seems more green on the other side, but in reality it is individual perception of situation that makes it livable at the end of the day.

 

[Mass Effect]

Also, we received email from the pc asking us to choose our vacation time now before having our service schedule fixed, Is this typical?

This is a good thing. There will be certain rotations during which you can't take vacation. So if you have any specific weeks that you need for vacation, telling them before they set the schedule will allow you to take it.

 

[shojimoji]

This is a good thing. There will be certain rotations during which you can't take vacation. So if you have any specific weeks that you need for vacation, telling them before they set the schedule will allow you to take it.

i know in theory it seems like a good thing, but i was actually hoping that they would give me the scheduled rotations for me first so i can take off during the non-psych months which are quite busy. i also know that it is permitted to take vacation during those months as well

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Well one of the FP months is outpatient and one of them is in-patient. Since we get the weekends off for these months, we have to cover psych call during the weekends.

Also, we received email from the pc asking us to choose our vacation time now before having our service schedule fixed, Is this typical?

Maybe that's not all bad, especially at a smaller program because it makes the on call schedule on psych rotations less onerous. We never did that at my program, which I think resulted in some more call inequity because in-service people were stuck with extra burdens when another in-service person was out of the call schedule.

I think picking your vacation now is typical, too.

Welcome to not having a lot of control over your life for the next few years, but as you mentioned, it's time-limited and better to have a program than not.

 

[shojimoji]

Maybe that's not all bad, especially at a smaller program because it makes the on call schedule on psych rotations less onerous. We never did that at my program, which I think resulted in some more call inequity because in-service people were stuck with extra burdens when another in-service person was out of the call schedule.

I think picking your vacation now is typical, too.

Welcome to not having a lot of control over your life for the next few years, but as you mentioned, it's time-limited and better to have a program than not.

you bring up a very good advantage, plus it will give me the train of though of psychiatry even during the medicine months as well.

 

[Psychobabbling]

It depends. We didn't do call in neuro. Some didn't do call in medicine, others did call in medicine (within the same class). Just depends on how your program sets things up

 

[milesed]

We did exactly as those in the IM, Neurology, or peds residents did- usually every 3-4 nights. I had zero days off during this rotations.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Yes, I remember six months without a day off, but now there is one day in 7 averaged over a month.
Then again, I remember what I was doing when Kennedy was shot....

 

[psych72]

I think my program is similar in its duty requirements. However, during non psych months, we are expected to pay extra attention to clearing someone from a psych standpoint.

 

[keifernny2]

As an intern,
My program had night float on psych, medicine, AND neuro.

Weekend psych call was taken on psych & elective. Weekend medicine call was taken on medicine.

Trying to mix psych/medicine call on your days off would be VERY hard to schedule based on medicine requirements and require a level of coordination between chief residents that is almost impossible to prevent duty hours violations.

As for scheduling vacation, we were only allowed on psych months, and generally it was frowned upon to do it on anything but an elective month.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think my program is similar in its duty requirements. However, during non psych months, we are expected to pay extra attention to clearing someone from a psych standpoint.

What?