Nontrad med school experience

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Thanks Q! I actually asked one of the faculty who believed in me how they knew I could succeed a year ago when I wasn't even sure I could. Apparently, it isn't unusual for older students who have been out of school for awhile to struggle at first with medical school.
I knew you'd be able to do it because you were putting in the necessary effort. And lots of people struggle at the start, not just nontrads.

Side rant: I don't know why people seem to think you have to be a genius to get into (and through) med school. Not that it would hurt to be a genius, but the most important factor in success is the willingness to work hard. Medical concepts aren't particularly complex. You just have to learn a lot of them. A person of dead average intellect could get through med school (and the boards) if they were willing to work hard.

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I knew you'd be able to do it because you were putting in the necessary effort. And lots of people struggle at the start, not just nontrads.

Side rant: I don't know why people seem to think you have to be a genius to get into (and through) med school. Not that it would hurt to be a genius, but the most important factor in success is the willingness to work hard. Medical concepts aren't particularly complex. You just have to learn a lot of them. A person of dead average intellect could get through med school (and the boards) if they were willing to work hard.

Heh. Many internal medicine types will describe some internist (or medicine subspecialist) they really admire as "brilliant." Inevitably, what they turn out to mean is that the person has a vast amount of medical trivia memorized and can recite it at the drop of a hat. That's quite a stretch of the term "brilliant," which IMO should be reserved for the Einsteins, the Mozarts, the Shakespeares: people who can dream up new ideas. An idiot savant can memorize Harrison's.
 
Side rant: I don't know why people seem to think you have to be a genius to get into (and through) med school. Not that it would hurt to be a genius, but the most important factor in success is the willingness to work hard. Medical concepts aren't particularly complex. You just have to learn a lot of them. A person of dead average intellect could get through med school (and the boards) if they were willing to work hard.

Darn it, Q! Just when I had convinced myself that I must be a genius... ;)
 
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I knew you'd be able to do it because you were putting in the necessary effort. And lots of people struggle at the start, not just nontrads.

Side rant: I don't know why people seem to think you have to be a genius to get into (and through) med school. Not that it would hurt to be a genius, but the most important factor in success is the willingness to work hard. Medical concepts aren't particularly complex. You just have to learn a lot of them. A person of dead average intellect could get through med school (and the boards) if they were willing to work hard.

This is quite comforting as I am no genius
 
This is quite comforting as I am no genius

I'm not going to say there is no thinking/analysis/application involved but the overwhelming majority of medical school so far has been simply rote memorization. I did a little investigation into the literature about cognition in middle age over the summer. There hasn't been much research done on middle aged people, but what I could find indicated that us older folks have a little less ability to memorize than the traditional students. We do, however, have more ability to integrate and synthesize information. I'm still debating whether this evens the playing field or not! :)
 
I loved anatomy. Particularly the soothing detailed fat picking. It was just weirdly calming doing the detail work.
 
I loved anatomy. Particularly the soothing detailed fat picking. It was just weirdly calming doing the detail work.

I agree, anatomy has been my favorite class so far. I'd rather memorize the brachial plexus than the biochemistry of amino acids any day. And slowly dissecting out the vessels in the gut was like therapy for a week fo rme.
 
As I mentioned before, we don't have cadavers at my school so I don't know how much I would have enjoyed detailed fat or vessel work. We did have some labs this month with actual prosected brains. It was very helpful and I think now that it would have been really helpful for me to have had cadavers for anatomy because it would have helped with the dimensional relatedness.
 
Well, it's been awhile since I have been on SDN. For the record, spring semester of 2nd year is hella busy.

Second year was very trying. For the most part I got the hang of the studying thing and academically I was okay, not at the top of the class, more mid pack, but Gfliptastic said it best, "Live on in the mean of the bell curve and enjoy it!" Most of the stress was from school policies. Briefly, at the start of second year, my school started a new policy where everyone below a certain GPA was put in special "group." If you are in this group you are considered at high risk for failing. It is basically a permanent problem student label until you graduate - the school has stated clearly that you can never be removed from this group. Being in this group has several ramifications - differences in your choices of rotation assignments and required monthly meetings with an advisor until graduation. I was also held back this month. While the rest of my class started rotations I was mandated to stay and study for boards an extra month with the rest of this special group and give up my OMS-3 vacation month. Apparently, I have to come back to campus next year to study for Step 2 for a month, also. Anyway, I will live through this, I try to keep telling myself it isn't a big deal, but I am furious about this "label."

All of you know about my struggles last year. I did fail two classes in first semester of first year but I remediated both successfully on the first attempts. The PBL curriculum at my school means that all the science is lumped together in one 27-30 credit course each semester so if you get a C it really damages your GPA. In first year I had a 78% in PBL each semester - Cs but nowhere near failing. I think I had one other C but everything else in first year was an A or a B. First year wasn't great but it isn't as if I kept failing. This year, I am proud to say that my transcript has nothing on it but As and Bs for the entire year. But yet, I will retain this problem student label until I graduate. Though I shouldn't care what others think, it's a small school and it's pretty clear to everyone who is in this "special group." I try not to think about it, because it makes me so angry after how hard I have worked. :mad: I keep telling myself it is just for 22 more months.

I try very hard not to speak ill of my medical school because they were the only school that accepted me after many, many other schools turned me away. Sometimes, though, the school admin here makes it so they are very hard to like.

In five days I take COMLEX Step 1. I am confident I will pass but I am not happy with my practice scores - I think I will likely end up with a below national average score which makes me sad. :( I worked hard and did two question banks with 4,500+ questions. I am registered for USMLE but I am delaying that for now. I want to see my COMLEX score and I need more time to study biochem. For those of you that may not know, I am a DO student so I have to take the COMLEX board exams. I can opt to take the MD exams, which are the USMLE exams. Doing so can allow more flexibility in applying to MD residencies, some of which may not accept COMLEX, but it isn't strictly necessary.

Well, that's it, for now. I hope to do a better job of staying connected on SDN as I start third year rotations on July 1st! :scared: :soexcited:
 
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Sheesh Helen, that sucks. I can see monitoring people and giving them some more mentoring/advisinig/one on one time, but it seems like they are punishing you a bit with delaying rotations. I mean, maybe that's something they should offer if you're in the high risk group, but singling you guys out and absolutely requiring it and you not being able to get out of that group seems a bit much. Especially if you're riding the mean right now.

Does that special group "membership" get mentioned in a dean's letter or anything when you apply to residency?
 
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Does that special group "membership" get mentioned in a dean's letter or anything when you apply to residency?

Thankfully, no. It would make the school look bad if they noted that they had a special group for low GPA students. Interestingly, there are about 19 of us in my class of 90. Yep, 20% of my class.
 
good to hear from you. I subscribed to this thread last year and followed your progress while I was working on my applications. I am sorry to hear that you were placed in the remediation group. I don't think it is fair that once you get placed in it that you can't get out. Showing all As and Bs this year should count for something.

It is good to hear more of your story. I like to hear about what others are experiencing before me so I can know a little about what to expect.

I hope you do better than you expect for COMLEX step I!

dsoz
 
this year, i am proud to say that my transcript has nothing on it but as and bs for the entire year.

:D

Anyway, I will live through this, I try to keep telling myself it isn't a big deal, but I am furious about this "label."

Helen, for what it is worth I am cheering for you. I hope this label is doing the effect of pushing you forward rather than debilitating you. From what I can see, it seems to be (pushing you forward). Best of luck. :thumbup:


edit: clarification
 
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I would argue that you are looking at being in the "special group" totally wrong. It's not a bad thing at all; in fact, it's a *great* thing that you have the opportunity to be in this group.

We can probably all agree that based on your premed and initial med school performance, you are a high risk student. But as you said, your school still took a chance on accepting you when none of the others would. And when you failed those classes last year, they didn't give up on you. They gave you another chance, and you were able to make it to (and through) second year. Now your next challenge is Step 1, which is not an easy test for anyone, but especially for those who aren't naturally good at standardized exams. Again though, your school isn't giving up on you. In fact, they are investing extra resources and effort into ensuring that you do make it through Step 1 and Step 2 on your first try.

Even if you do score below the national average, passing each Step of the boards on your first try is important. This isn't the MCAT, where you can keep retaking the test as often as you want until you get your goal score. If you don't pass all three Steps within a certain number of tries, a lot of states won't license you. Think about that. You could spend four years and $250,000+ on med school and not be able to get a license in the state where you want to practice. Plus, having a fail on Step 1 is a huge red flag to residency program directors, even if you pass it on your retake. As hard as Step 1 is, the specialty boards are harder. And just as the MCAT is used to screen premeds for med school admission, Step 1 scores are used to screen med students for residency interview offers. Almost nothing will get you into the "do not interview" pile as surely as a failed Step 1.

So ok, your school has "labelled" you, and it stings your pride a little for everyone to know that you need a little extra help. But again, it's a good thing that your school is giving you that extra help. It tells you that they believe you can succeed. It tells you that they want to do everything possible to make sure you do succeed. And two years from now when you match into a good residency program on your first try, you will be glad that they made this investment in you.
 
Side rant: I don't know why people seem to think you have to be a genius to get into (and through) med school. Not that it would hurt to be a genius, but the most important factor in success is the willingness to work hard. Medical concepts aren't particularly complex. You just have to learn a lot of them. A person of dead average intellect could get through med school (and the boards) if they were willing to work hard.

:thumbup:

Going to college teaches you this much about people and success, hah. It's all in the hours of work you put in, no matter how lightning fast your processing speed is, or your ability to hold info in your working memory.

Internalize this message if you're just starting as a premed in college. It's seriously important. :)
 
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This year, I am proud to say that my transcript has nothing on it but As and Bs for the entire year.

Don't let the label distract you. From what I've been able to gather about my classmates and Board scores, classroom grades correlate to Board scores for the most part.

The fact that you've been pulling A's and B's should give you momentum going into it. Not the past slowing you down.

Alluding to what Q wrote, no genius is required to be good at med school. Determination and hard work IS!

Using my first 2 years as an example, when I did poorly on an exam, and needed the subsequent exam to be far better, did I activate some sort of genius brain protein?? NOPE, as much as it pained me at the time, all I did was study even more diligently. More efficiently. Spent far less time on Facebook. More time in my books. Would you believe my grade improved!?!?! ;)

You obviously learned something in the beginning and made the appropriate changes to succeed. So never be bogged down by the past. I'd even say admire where you were back then, not doing well, and REVEL in where you are now, thriving. Helen you honestly need to feel good about yourself!!! :thumbup:

If I was latched to some label, all it would do to me is make me strive so much harder to invalidate it! Even if you do listen to my "be happy in the middle of the bell curve" you do understand you, who were deemed to be a deficient student actually managed to be amongst the average. And w/ A's and B's, I'd say you were BEATING THEM. That's amazing, don't you think??

Scoff at the label Helen! I absolutely would. Take it as a personal challenge, and win...like you have been!

Good luck!!!

P.S. - Clinicals are great!!! :)
 
Yes, I decided early on to use the "label" to motivate me. I have to put that anger somewhere so I direct it toward proving "them" how wrong they were about me.

I didn't feel quite ready to take the COMLEX in June and wanted to go off schedule for a month to have an extra study month but my school wouldn't let me! You would have thought that such a vulnerable problem student as myself would have been allowed to do this. However, the problem student label comes from administration at the main campus. The actual approval about taking the COMLEX rested on admin at my campus who knew me and told me it was ridiculous for me to delay the test. The faculty at my school thought I was just having normal pre-board jitters. So, I took it. I did pass it. Yay! :D

In the meantime, I pushed back the USMLE Step 1. My school, since it is a DO school, does not care if or when I take the USMLE. I pushed it back until after I got my score on the COMLEX. I am taking the USMLE Step 1 on 8/27. I am doing well on my practice question bank and feeling pretty good about it. :nod: Wish me luck!

Also, after taking the COMLEX in June I started third year rotations. So far I have completed 1.5 rotations and they are going well so far. My only complaint is that this month I am commuting 70 miles each way to my psych rotation. But at least I get to come home to my house and pets every night. And it is only for two more weeks.
 
Yes, I decided early on to use the "label" to motivate me. I have to put that anger somewhere so I direct it toward proving "them" how wrong they were about me.
:D
The faculty at my school thought I was just having normal pre-board jitters. So, I took it. I did pass it. Yay! :D
:thumbup:

. I am taking the USMLE Step 1 on 8/27. I am doing well on my practice question bank and feeling pretty good about it. :nod: Wish me luck!
:luck:

Overall, Nice work! :)
 
Well, I thought it was time for an update. I finished third year three weeks ago. :soexcited:

This month is board study month and in two weeks I am taking COMLEX and USMLE exams. Third year went pretty well. I had all As and (high) Bs on rotations. I scored at or above national average on every shelf exam, too. So, overall I am proud of how things went. Some rotations like surgery and OB Gyn that have longer hours on your feet took a toll on me - I am finding that middle age is hitting me hard, but I made it through everything and did well.
 
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Helen, thank you for the update and, once again, thank you for this honest and encouraging thread. Best of luck on the tests!
 
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May 2015 Update

Here I am, at the very tail end of fourth year. All the requirements are completed, I am just waiting one week until the graduation ceremony when I will officially become Dr. Helen Wheels.

I did well in medical school after my initial struggles in first year. I never had a grade less than a B for a course or rotation after first year. I passed all my board exams on the first attempt. I do wish I could have been more of a superstar in terms of grades and board scores but I did okay and have nothing to be ashamed of. I was diagnosed with an autoimmune rheumatic disease in third year which made some of the more intense rotations where I was on my feet for 11-14 hour days (surgery and ob gyn) very painful at times. I never mentioned my health issues and never asked for special treatment, instead choosing to be tough and prove I could keep up with those much younger and healthier than myself. And, for all of this, I am proud of my accomplishments and perseverance.

The match process did not treat me kindly. For this I partly blame my medical school that gave us essentially no guidance on applying for the match. I thought I knew what I was doing, I thought my older age and experience with job applications and interviews would be enough to get what I wanted - a residency in IM in the city that I have called home for my entire life. Where, in fact, I live in and own the house where I have lived my entire life since birth. I did as many rotations as possible at my first choice program, worked hard, did a sub-internship there where I enthusiastically put in 72 hour weeks. In the end, the hospital I most wanted to do my residency at, that seemed perfect for my career goals of a competitive fellowship down the road, and for being a 20 minute drive from my home, did not rank me high enough to match. It was yet another episode of heartbreak in this lengthy, tumultuous saga. Unfortunately, my focus on getting a position close to home along with no outside guidance meant that I had too few programs to rank in the matches (I did both the DO and MD matches) and I had no residency after the dust of the 2015 match season settled.

For three week after the match I had nothing. I cannot convey the emotions of that time. Fear and panic of what would happen when I had no paycheck in July. Worry that I would not be able to find a job, any job, to pay the bills while I sat out a year and regrouped. Feelings of inadequacy, feelings that I might never find a residency and be forever saddled with $200,000 + of debt with no ability to pay it back.

I was eventually able to find an IM residency in April at a small community program. It is smaller than I wanted, not really a program geared to prepare people for competitive fellowships. I worry about my future still. I have to move also from my cherished house, my last tangible tie to my deceased parents. My new residency program is over 100 miles away. Thus, another chapter in this amazing and frustrating and crazy journey unfolds. Very little of it has worked out quite the way I expected. But I will continue the journey and see where it takes me.
 
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Thanks for sharing Helen. I'm so glad you were able to secure a position despite the frustration that entailed.

Can you rent out your home for the time being?
 
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