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Nontrads over 28 yo.. why not PA?
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No. I'm just a fanboy. But...if you sell the rights to the movie houses make sure you get me on as an extra. I wanna be the "how-did-that-guy-get-a-job-here" gurney lackey.
And the words Goat Rodeo. Superb.
I swear. The other day when I was working with these wild @ss red headed twin boys. I came in with their shots. And one goes phoom....under the table. The other took advantage of my confusion. And shot past me. Out the door and down the hallway. And I tell you...
Somewhere in my head. A banjo started pecking furiously. And in came the harmonies "Goat Rode---ee---falsetto--eeoo." So good word-smithing there.
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I dislike "not" questions. Our biology isn't made to handle them. Instead, I believe the right question to ask is, why MD/DO? If you have a solid answer to that, you needn't ask "not" questions.
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I just turned 28 and starting my Biology B.S.
Here are my reasons for choosing M.D. over PA (or NP for that matter):
1) Passion for a depth of knowledge in the workings of the human body not addressed in the other career paths
2) A strong interest in 2 specialties (Neonatology & Pediatric Oncology/Hematology) neither PA nor NP would allow for the type of practice in these areas that I'm interested in
3) Volunteer opportunities that are available in the M.D. role that are not available to PA/NP (Doctors without Borders or opening a free clinic)
4) Research (I have several specific research topics in mind that I would like to explore in conjunction with clinical medicine)
Great question!
I thought long and hard about the practicality of leaving my current career as a teacher at an older age to take on the debt and opportunity cost (not just financially, but also in terms of sacrificing some of the prime years of my life in late 20's/early 30's and also, as a female, potentially delaying starting a family). And I kept coming back to a very simple, cliched piece of advice my mother (a former nurse who went to med school at an even later age than me) gave me: one of these days, you're going to turn 40 no matter what you do. You can wake up on your 40th birthday and realize you've spent almost 20 years stuck in careers that don't fulfill you and be exactly where you are right now, wondering how things could be different had you just gone for it... or you can wake up on that day as an attending physician having accomplished your dream. Debt and sleep deprivation and sacrifice be damned. And she's absolutely right.
From that perspective, the worries about time and debt and opportunity cost lose significance. And all that matters is what I really want to do. Most of the reasons to pursue a mid-level career have very little to do with what that role offers over that of a physician but rather with things like length of schooling, debt, lifestyle, etc. When you consider that none of those things are going to really matter in the end if you wake up on your 40th birthday and realize that you sold yourself short and compromised, the decision is easy.
I want to learn as much as I possibly can, challenge myself at the highest level of rigor and, long-long term, earn as much money as possible. Going to PA school or a direct entry NP program would be settling, and deep down I know it and don't think I could live with it.
From that perspective, the worries about time and debt and opportunity cost lose significance. And all that matters is what I really want to do. Most of the reasons to pursue a mid-level career have very little to do with what that role offers over that of a physician but rather with things like length of schooling, debt, lifestyle, etc. When you consider that none of those things are going to really matter in the end if you wake up on your 40th birthday and realize that you sold yourself short and compromised, the decision is easy.
I want to learn as much as I possibly can, challenge myself at the highest level of rigor and, long-long term, earn as much money as possible. Going to PA school or a direct entry NP program would be settling, and deep down I know it and don't think I could live with it.
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one of these days, you're going to turn 40 no matter what you do. You can wake up on your 40th birthday and realize you've spent almost 20 years stuck in careers that don't fulfill you and be exactly where you are right now, wondering how things could be different had you just gone for it... or you can wake up on that day as an attending physician having accomplished your dream. Debt and sleep deprivation and sacrifice be damned.A perfectly put perspective. Even if I'll be 41 before I'm an attending
Waking up on my 40th birthday as a fellow will feel just as good!
Those are all legitimate reasons. It would be nice to be a part of Doctors w/o Borders. Good luck to you. You seem very focused.
This is a great post. I think it's nice to have a mother who is a Physician; since they had been down that road. If one have dreams of opening Restaurant, should that stop me from pursuing the MD/DO? I read on this forum that if there is any other thing you like to do, don't go Medical School. How much weight should that carry? I want to be a Doc but I also have dreams of opening a restaurant. Why can't I have both? I'm 29 now and should get in Med. school by 32. I'll be 39 when I'm done. And perhaps open up a restaurant at 45 or so but still practice medicine. Am I unrealistic?
Waking up as a MS1, knowing that I got accepted is a dream come true. Less than 9% of Cambodian Americans recieve their Bachelor degree. I'm lucky enough to be in that 9%. Now to receive an MD/DO, that would put me in the less than 2% category. That has to feel great
one of these days, you're going to turn 40 no matter what you do. You can wake up on your 40th birthday and realize you've spent almost 20 years stuck in careers that don't fulfill you and be exactly where you are right now, wondering how things could be different had you just gone for it... or you can wake up on that day as an attending physician having accomplished your dream. Debt and sleep deprivation and sacrifice be damned.A perfectly put perspective. Even if I'll be 41 before I'm an attending
Waking up on my 40th birthday as a fellow will feel just as good!
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a bit cocky but I thought he was funny
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I agree with most of the posters.
1. Autonomy
2. Ambition
- Trying to achieve all you can and be the best you can in your field. I feel like if I wanted to be an NBA player and aspired to be on the bench during the playoff games that would be odd (you still travel with the team and practice, you just aren't on the field of play when everything is at stake). Also income potential is a big factor, NOT the most important but still relevant (if I can earn double doing something I enjoy and is more difficult then by all means).
3. Larger Challenge/intellectually stimulating
- It stands that you are harder to replace when you have to jump through more hoops. You also earn more. Going the easier road in life isn't as rewarding in my opinion. It is when you have to reach with all you got AND you win that you feel amazing. Becoming the master of a challenging path.
4. More expertise, being truly excellent at something worthwhile
Looking at yourself in the mirror and being able to say, "I'm really excellent at this, one of the best" is an amazing feeling. Saying it about something like being a physician is even better. I wouldn't feel great about saying, "I am a really excellent assistant". The word assistant takes all the air out of it for me.
I have to throw in:
5. Ego/pride
I think being at the highest part of the food chain is a good feeling too. NOT because you are higher than everyone else, but because you want to become the best you can be and the best you can be IS the top of that ladder in this society.
1. Autonomy
2. Ambition
- Trying to achieve all you can and be the best you can in your field. I feel like if I wanted to be an NBA player and aspired to be on the bench during the playoff games that would be odd (you still travel with the team and practice, you just aren't on the field of play when everything is at stake). Also income potential is a big factor, NOT the most important but still relevant (if I can earn double doing something I enjoy and is more difficult then by all means).
3. Larger Challenge/intellectually stimulating
- It stands that you are harder to replace when you have to jump through more hoops. You also earn more. Going the easier road in life isn't as rewarding in my opinion. It is when you have to reach with all you got AND you win that you feel amazing. Becoming the master of a challenging path.
4. More expertise, being truly excellent at something worthwhile
Looking at yourself in the mirror and being able to say, "I'm really excellent at this, one of the best" is an amazing feeling. Saying it about something like being a physician is even better. I wouldn't feel great about saying, "I am a really excellent assistant". The word assistant takes all the air out of it for me.
I have to throw in:
5. Ego/pride
I think being at the highest part of the food chain is a good feeling too. NOT because you are higher than everyone else, but because you want to become the best you can be and the best you can be IS the top of that ladder in this society.
I really appreciate your input. And thank you for sticking to the questions.
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Remeber, your dreams are your own. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it no matter what. Even if you are 10 years too old or too young, or if you don't have the education or the background. Doesn't matter. Persistance and understand achievement SURPASS all logic and probabilities.
Marc Cuban is a billionaire, at 24 he had never held a decent job and he started up a tech company. He didn't have any education and kept working at it. He became a billionaire a decade or so after this. (search marc cuban blog online and read his posts about success).
If he went onto business forums and asked people how successful he could be the responses wouldn't be amazing. YET, he is one of the most successful businessmen around. He slept on the floor in a small 3 bedroom apt with 5 guys at 24! Age doesn't mean anything, you can start at whatever you want today.
You can get an MD and start your restaurant, there are no limits. You just need to have the desire and the will. Also make sure the finances will work out for you, getting an MD then doing something else doesn't make much sense to me unless you've used your MD for a reasonable amount of time.
I really appreciate your post and guidance. There is just so much I want out of life and being a restauranteer is one of them. Mark Cuban is a great example of someone who stick to his dream and plans and is very successful. Thank you again and the best of luck to you dear friend.
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So I have to amend the Doctors w/o Borders...my husband has this crazy fear that I might die and leave him with all three kids
So definately the free clinic and many bill write offs for patients that aren't able to pay
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I'm going to be 25 this July and haven't even really started my bachelor's yet. The speed with which I could become a PA is attractive, but I think I'd be less content doing that than I would being a doctor, mostly because of the level of knowledge. I want to be an expert, to the greatest extent possible. Of course, I still have several years to decide, so we'll see.
I just finished The House of God, and I'm not sure whether it increased or decreased my enthusiasm for med school. It was an excellent read, in any case, and (perhaps not) surprisingly, as an EMS-er, I could relate to a lot of its attitudes.
I'm currently an EMT in the city. I work for a private service, which here means I take many more patients to dialysis clinics than to ERs, but maybe I'll see you around at some point.
I just finished The House of God, and I'm not sure whether it increased or decreased my enthusiasm for med school. It was an excellent read, in any case, and (perhaps not) surprisingly, as an EMS-er, I could relate to a lot of its attitudes.
I'm currently an EMT in the city. I work for a private service, which here means I take many more patients to dialysis clinics than to ERs, but maybe I'll see you around at some point.
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That is the wrong question to ask. Age has nothing to do with your goals. If you really want to be a doctor, you will want to be one whether you are 20 or 50. What you are really asking is "why medicine" and everyone has a different answer to that.
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I was a pre-med with good grades and MCAT who actually did choose PA over MD. Although I was only 23 when I made this decision, I did have a daughter and fiance to consider. Ultimately, I decided that for me, becoming a PA was the better choice for reasons such as:
-shorter time in school
-less debt
-no residency
-still an interesting career in medicine with a good salary
-ability to change specialties easily
*opportunity to be a more present/active father/husband*
Overall, I felt that to pursue the MD would have been selfish on my part, and unfair to my fiance and daughter. For me, they are top priority. Career comes second. So as it is, while i wont be a doctor, I will have a career in medicine with a nice salary, and hopefully a happy family life for years to come.
Now, if I didnt have a family to worry about.......i would definitely go to med school over PA. Age would not matter.
-shorter time in school
-less debt
-no residency
-still an interesting career in medicine with a good salary
-ability to change specialties easily
*opportunity to be a more present/active father/husband*
Overall, I felt that to pursue the MD would have been selfish on my part, and unfair to my fiance and daughter. For me, they are top priority. Career comes second. So as it is, while i wont be a doctor, I will have a career in medicine with a nice salary, and hopefully a happy family life for years to come.
Now, if I didnt have a family to worry about.......i would definitely go to med school over PA. Age would not matter.
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Those are valid reasons.
*However*
In regards to the feeling selfish because it would take time away from a child, I have thought about that in depth and have this to add:
Children watching as one of their parents works hard for a life passion and because of hard work and perseverance achieves that goal thus becoming a leader in the community helping patients in their greatest time of need is quite possibly one of the best life lessons you could teach a child.
No, you don' have to want them to be a doctor, however it shows them the fruits of that parents labor.
I know the sacrifice and that there will be things I miss because I choose to live my passion.
But living my passion in front of my children (yes I have 3) will be an invaluable lesson to all of them.
My 2 cents is this, don't deny yourself and this world your God given gifts and purpose because you are afraid you might miss a football game or bedtime. What is important is for children to know they are loved and wanted.
I agree with this!
I'm a single mom who will be 28 as an MS1. I seriously considered a mid-level career as an AA as an alternative to becoming a physician, but ultimately realized that short term benefits don't outweigh long term satisfaction.
It was very tempting to envision a decent salary in a few years, more time at home in the next few years, and less responsibility at work. But if I went the mid-level route at some point I would have had to confront my regret of not working to my full potential and settling for something easier. At that point I would only be older and more settled and either have to carry the burden of regret to the grave or fight even harder to go back and get where I wanted to be.
Deep down I knew I wanted the autonomy, expertise, responsibility and hard work being a physician provides. Evenso, when considering the substantial sacrifices I and my family will make in the short term, I definitely had moments of doubt. I had heard the SDN warning "If there is anything besides medicine you could see yourself doing, do that instead". On more than one occasion I tried to picture my life as a mid-level, a lawyer, a public health advocate, a bed and breakfast owner or even a cupcake entreprenuer. In the end I knew my path to a mentally and spiritually satisfying career/life would lead through adversity and challenges not around them. As for the other things I pictured myself doing... I'll nuture those interests as hobbies, eventually.
As for my daughter, I hope my example of determination and hard work lends credibility to the "You can be anything you want to be. You can accomplish anything you set your mind to" encouragement I'll be doling out. I hope she'll do something she believes in, something she loves, not just something that pays the bills or is easy. Lead by example; that's my motto.
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See, i feel like the lesson would be.........
children, your going to live in near poverty for the next 7 or so years so that i can become a doctor. additionally, i wont be around much, so make sure to make some good friends and spend lots of time with them. but, dont become too good of friends because we will probably have to move in 4 years once i start residency. i know these years will probably suck for you and u will wish i were around more, but becoming a doctor was my top priority-lesson learned.
its great for those of you who dont see it this way, its just my view on the matter. and i wish everyone on such a path the best of luck.
children, your going to live in near poverty for the next 7 or so years so that i can become a doctor. additionally, i wont be around much, so make sure to make some good friends and spend lots of time with them. but, dont become too good of friends because we will probably have to move in 4 years once i start residency. i know these years will probably suck for you and u will wish i were around more, but becoming a doctor was my top priority-lesson learned.
its great for those of you who dont see it this way, its just my view on the matter. and i wish everyone on such a path the best of luck.
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I seriously considered PA for awhile, decided to go MD b/c:
1) I have very little clinical experience. MD training is more geared towards inept *****s like myself.
2) While it is true that PAs can change specialties, the reality is that if you're nosing around for work, if you can say you have 10 yrs experience in, say, cardiology, you'll be able to draw a better salary there than elsewhere.
3) geographic limitations. PAs aren't everywhere...but maybe someday they will be.
4) possibility of a PA backlash in your location. By way of an example, a very large big brother style practice in my neck of the woods was recently bought out, and all the mid-levels were told "we're a physician based model" and were all but booted out as quickly as possible.
5) I'm a neurotic control freak and a workaholic. I have that mental illness specific to people stupid enough to want to go through medical re-education.
I am only one year in, so not really prepared to say whether my decision was wise or not.
1) I have very little clinical experience. MD training is more geared towards inept *****s like myself.
2) While it is true that PAs can change specialties, the reality is that if you're nosing around for work, if you can say you have 10 yrs experience in, say, cardiology, you'll be able to draw a better salary there than elsewhere.
3) geographic limitations. PAs aren't everywhere...but maybe someday they will be.
4) possibility of a PA backlash in your location. By way of an example, a very large big brother style practice in my neck of the woods was recently bought out, and all the mid-levels were told "we're a physician based model" and were all but booted out as quickly as possible.
5) I'm a neurotic control freak and a workaholic. I have that mental illness specific to people stupid enough to want to go through medical re-education.
I am only one year in, so not really prepared to say whether my decision was wise or not.
What about those who live in "near poverty" now? We're not all leaving lucrative jobs to start medical school. For some living on a student budget won't be much different than before. Do you know what the maxium earning potential of someone with a biology degree is?
Though there are differences between PA and MD/DO, I don't believe they are so great as to determine a happy childhood or an unhappy one. Parents work full time jobs, people move, this is life.
In the end the best parent is a happy one. The quality of time you spend with your children is far more valuable than the quantity.
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So, your meta-message to your kids seems to be "I sacrificed my life dream and my potential for you." I have parents who felt that way, too... it sucks. If that isn't your meta-message, then I'm led to wonder if there was another reason that you went the PA route, but it's easier to point to your kids needs. I'm a mom to 2 boys. My sister and I grew up dirt poor or in foster care, with no support and with no stability. My kids have 2 parents who love the heck out of them, 3 square meals / day, a clean house, a running car, toys, clean clothes, excellent schools and childcare and no fear of being hurt or abandoned. Their childhoods are blessed, even with the moving, or the periodic times we are gone for conferences or rotations. And it's not like I'm trying to be a rock star or a world class poker player. I'm going to school to be a doctor, so I can afford my retirement.
Just another perspective,
S.
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well, thats another thing. going to medical school and becoming a doctor was never my "life dream". i had a bio degree and high grades, so med school was a consideration. but i still dont understand all the fantasizing that goes on here about going to med school and becoming a physician. sure its a fine career. but its also a really lengthy, costly pathway and a difficult job afterwards with alot of BS to deal with. why dream about something like that?
o yes, because you will be saving the lives of others and really making a difference in the world. please.....
o yes, because you will be saving the lives of others and really making a difference in the world. please.....
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I think what this comes down to is a difference in aspiration, then, but the undertone that those who pursue medicine are naive, neglectful parents, etc., isn't fair or accurate in every case.
Just getting to where I am has been a lengthy, costly pathway full of unexpected difficulties and frustrations, but would you say that dreaming about building a solid family, owning a home, building a career or getting my undergrad degree isn't worth dreaming about? I don't chose to look at life that way.
I'm looking forward to having the autonomy to make a lot of my own decisions about my career and my life, having the ability and knowledge base to do the research I want to do, and getting paid to think about the things I want to think about. Certainly worth dreaming about, but that's me.
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In many cases the role model you become when you complete your goals, and the happier person you are when you are doing what you like offsets being around a few hours more. There are crummy parents out there who are around the child 24/7. Those kids don't come out of it any better.
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i would say building a solid family, owning a home, and earning your degree while overcoming many obstacles is admirable and something you should be proud of...as is pursuing a medical degree.
I just wanted to share my experience as an alternative to all those who are going for the MD/DO
I have an acceptance at an excellent, established PA school in my home state, and also a new private DO school (not Rocky Vista) which is OOS for this summer/fall. I'm ancient (42), with no kids, have a fantastic and supportive husband, and I have to say this decision is one of the toughest ones I've had to make. I've worked as an electrical engineer/software person for many years and had to pursue a career in medicine before it was too late. PA school starts in 3 weeks, and I need to **** or get off the pot. I'm SO concerned about the money invested for DO school (33K/year for tuition alone), and will I EVER get a return on my investment? I have some savings, but still will have to borrow around ~100k if that's the route I choose to take. PA school would be SO much cheaper, but I'd probably be kicking myself until the end of my days if I don't bite the bullet and go to DO school. I don't know what the job market is like for PAs; the schools sell the idea that you won't ever be without a great job, but I wonder if thats really true.
All that being said, this thread has been extremely helpful to me, and I think I'm going to decline my spot at the PA school.
All that being said, this thread has been extremely helpful to me, and I think I'm going to decline my spot at the PA school.
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PAs are relatively very cheap labor. I would tend to believe those schools.
I thought that I have a hard decision to make until I read your post about DO vs PA decision. There are just so many things to consider for you; this is a rediculously hard decision to make. This really comes down to motivation. If the motivation is greater than the obstacles, then you will choose DO.
This is a very succinct and accurate representation of the choice between the two. It's all about the person though. For some people being a PA is their summit and that is a commendable dream.
I was ten years old when my mom started medical school. I never realized that she was doing anything extraordinary. She was gone during the day from about 8:00-5:00 just like any other working parent. In fact I think I saw her more during the four years she was in school than I did before when she was working night shifts as a nurse and going to college during the day. As for living in poverty... um, no. We didn't. She maxed out on borrowing living expenses and my step-dad worked. We were a normal middle class family. And no, we didn't move once. I lived in the same house from infancy to college. Mom commuted to medical school and worked her butt off academically to ensure that she'd be accepted for residency at the hospital of her choice near our home.
During residency there were times when my mom was away more frequently but not all residencies are created equally- fields like psychiatry and family practice often more closely approximate a normal 50-60 hour workweek than specialties like surgery. And it's not as if there aren't a whole lot of other kids who deal with parents going away for business trips, military deployment, etc. I often spent time after school or some nights with my grandparents which was awesome. I'm actually really grateful I had the chance to become so close to them.
I harbor no resentment at all toward my mother for pursuing her dream. I'm so grateful to have had her as a role model. But I was a really independent child who didn't need (or often want) my parents holding my hand and showing up at every school or sporting event. Not every kid needs a helicopter parent "being there" for every single moment of their lives. It goes without saying that parenting time is about quality, not quantity. And frustrated, unhappy adults rarely make good parents. I'm far better off today for my mother having done what she did. I've grown up with a work ethic and independent spirit, and the knowledge that I can and should be anything I want to be.
During residency there were times when my mom was away more frequently but not all residencies are created equally- fields like psychiatry and family practice often more closely approximate a normal 50-60 hour workweek than specialties like surgery. And it's not as if there aren't a whole lot of other kids who deal with parents going away for business trips, military deployment, etc. I often spent time after school or some nights with my grandparents which was awesome. I'm actually really grateful I had the chance to become so close to them.
I harbor no resentment at all toward my mother for pursuing her dream. I'm so grateful to have had her as a role model. But I was a really independent child who didn't need (or often want) my parents holding my hand and showing up at every school or sporting event. Not every kid needs a helicopter parent "being there" for every single moment of their lives. It goes without saying that parenting time is about quality, not quantity. And frustrated, unhappy adults rarely make good parents. I'm far better off today for my mother having done what she did. I've grown up with a work ethic and independent spirit, and the knowledge that I can and should be anything I want to be.
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1)I never said we would be living near the poverty line (although, children have survived that too) I'm very fortunate to have a very supportive husband who financially supports our family. My choice to pursue medicine doesn't take food off our table or move us down in house size, it means I can't buy Coach bags anymore. So...there goes that piece to your argument.
2)In *most* families in this country BOTH parents work full time. So my children will not be the only ones on the block whose Mom isn't baking homemade cookies and watching soaps (btw I have been and still am a stay-at-home Mom and right now I bake LOTS of cookies, soaps aren't my thing but Dr. Phil is)
There goes point number 23)Several of my good friends who stay-at-home full time with their kids have had to move 2 or more times since their young kids were born because of their husband's job- no matter what you do for work or which parent is working, somebody has to pay the bills and sometimes that means moving! Your third point is now irrelevant
I get that maybe those are things that are popular with *some* the mid-level providers as reasons why they don't want to pursue medicine, but they don't hold water.
Given your reasons, no doctor anywhere should ever have kids!
That's absurd, we need doctors who are also people, married, divorced, whatever- with kids.
Or all doctors should wait until they are practicing to have kids- again- ridiculous since that would be around 35 or later!
Everyone should choose their path based on what they feel they are best suited for and what their own priorities in life are, and not judge other people.
Just my 2 cents
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If you believe in God, this *might* reach you.
I believe every person born into this world is so with a purpose to fulfill. When you have found that reason for your existence, and that is a reason many pursue medicine, you have little choice other then to live your purpose.
Of course, some go into medicine b/c they are seeking $, stupid reason, or validation, stupid reason- BUT you will read on these posts over and over that people are pursuing medicine because they have been called to do so.
If you don't believe that you were born to fulfill a purpose, I feel sad for you and you should speak to the Man that allowed you to live on this planet and ask Him what He wants with your life.
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I've seen a lot of delusional posters here on SDN, but hell....you take the cake.
Let me lay it out for you...you are going into medicine because you ARE selfish. You're not doing this because you want to have a great family life. And if you think you will, you're very very dumb.
My dad was an executive who was NEVER around until about my senior year in high school. So I can speak from personal experience. Your kids will resent you, they'll hate moving (I went to 14 different schools), and they'll realize that it's all for you because you're a selfish person.
Medicine is a job, it's a good one, and it can be rewarding, but.....it's still a job. So spare me this BS that you were "called" to do this. I wish I was there to see you give a rectal exam for the first time so I could ask you if God told you to stick your finger up another person's butt.
Oh yeah, and this line:
So in short - get down off your horse, throw away your copy of a Purpose Driven Life, and try to find reality.
To the original poster...
My first post ever on SDN was considering the choice between DO and PA.
I chose DO because...
1. Depth of Knowledge
2. Autonomy
3. Being a team lead
Let me lay it out for you...you are going into medicine because you ARE selfish. You're not doing this because you want to have a great family life. And if you think you will, you're very very dumb.
My dad was an executive who was NEVER around until about my senior year in high school. So I can speak from personal experience. Your kids will resent you, they'll hate moving (I went to 14 different schools), and they'll realize that it's all for you because you're a selfish person.
Medicine is a job, it's a good one, and it can be rewarding, but.....it's still a job. So spare me this BS that you were "called" to do this. I wish I was there to see you give a rectal exam for the first time so I could ask you if God told you to stick your finger up another person's butt.
Oh yeah, and this line:
Is about as self righteous and judgmental as you can get. This is like me telling you that I feel envious of your philosophical naivete because life was simpler when I believed in Santa.
So in short - get down off your horse, throw away your copy of a Purpose Driven Life, and try to find reality.
To the original poster...
My first post ever on SDN was considering the choice between DO and PA.
I chose DO because...
1. Depth of Knowledge
2. Autonomy
3. Being a team lead
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What's delusional about choosing a career that you are suited for, that could be DO, PA, MD or 1st grade teacher?
And, I know just what it feels like to be moved all around (I went to 8 different schools b/w 6th grade and 12th) and I would never wish that on another person nor would I choose that for my children.
I don't believe that being a doctor is anything special, but I do believe that each person should persue what they believe to be their purpose.
And, I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't read self-help books
Don't take posts so personally, it's one person's opinion, and a very short version of the whole story.
btw- I would never judge you for judging me
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I feel sad for you that you believe a man up in the sky created you, and further, for the purpose of being a doctor. lol. i would have to agree with the idea of you being delusional. but then again, only your opinion is valid, as you have already stated how mine are all irrelevant. man....i wish "the Man" had a better plan for me......
i give people who complete med school and residency a ton of credit. especially those with a family. thats quite an accomplishment. i also feel that the process requires many sacrifices. i feel like your underestimating those sacrifices.
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Wow. What a backwards world we live in when the people who believe in God are the delsional ones.
I won't participate. Good luck to all in whatever path you choose for yourselves.
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Please, guys, let's get this back on track quickly. We're here to help each other.
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My 2 cents
1. I believe in God and am not delusional.
It is ok to study science and believe in God. I don't know exactly how all this started, but it started somehow. Evolution/Creation how did it all go down? I don't know, but even the evolutionists have to agree with the first law of thermodynamics which says, "energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but it can neither be created nor destroyed." So even if you do believe a big bang happened, where did that come from? a meteor? ok, where did that come from? At some point energy had to be created! It had to start somewhere!!!!
Just the complexity of the world is enough proof for me, from one million atoms fitting across this period (.) to the estimated 350,000,000,000 galaxies out there. Our Milky Way galaxy is 1 out of 350,000,000,000 galaxies!
How big is our solar system (earth, sun, all the planets) compared to the Milky Way galaxy? As a guide to the relative physical scale of the Milky Way, if it were reduced to 100 m in diameter, the Solar System would be no more than 1 mm in width. And remember, there are approximately 350,000,000,000 galaxies. (this is a conservative estimate also).
sorry for all the faces but they just belong
2. Man's purpose is to bring glory to God.
Not to have some job or make money or anything else. And this is done by loving God and then the people on this planet.
1 thing (2 ways): Glory to God -- 1. Loving God 2. Loving people
3. We only are required to play our own part.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and ideas. I don't have to tell Bob, "hey Bob you are doing this all wrong." or tell Bob, "Hey, you're completely wrong and what I'm doing is right."
4. This is all ok.
It is ok for me to believe this and for everyone else to believe what they believe.
If I am wrong, boy will I be foolish for living as I do. If I am right then some people will be foolish for living how they do. Only time will tell! (I guess that's why they call it faith, because no one will EVER be able to definitely prove their explanation of how it all began or how it all ends).
1. I believe in God and am not delusional.
It is ok to study science and believe in God. I don't know exactly how all this started, but it started somehow. Evolution/Creation how did it all go down? I don't know, but even the evolutionists have to agree with the first law of thermodynamics which says, "energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but it can neither be created nor destroyed." So even if you do believe a big bang happened, where did that come from? a meteor? ok, where did that come from? At some point energy had to be created! It had to start somewhere!!!!
Just the complexity of the world is enough proof for me, from one million atoms fitting across this period (.) to the estimated 350,000,000,000 galaxies out there.
Our Milky Way galaxy is 1 out of 350,000,000,000 galaxies!How big is our solar system (earth, sun, all the planets) compared to the Milky Way galaxy? As a guide to the relative physical scale of the Milky Way, if it were reduced to 100 m in diameter, the Solar System would be no more than 1 mm in width.
And remember, there are approximately 350,000,000,000 galaxies. (this is a conservative estimate also).sorry for all the faces but they just belong
2. Man's purpose is to bring glory to God.
Not to have some job or make money or anything else. And this is done by loving God and then the people on this planet.
1 thing (2 ways): Glory to God -- 1. Loving God 2. Loving people
3. We only are required to play our own part.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and ideas. I don't have to tell Bob, "hey Bob you are doing this all wrong." or tell Bob, "Hey, you're completely wrong and what I'm doing is right."
4. This is all ok.
It is ok for me to believe this and for everyone else to believe what they believe.
If I am wrong, boy will I be foolish for living as I do. If I am right then some people will be foolish for living how they do. Only time will tell! (I guess that's why they call it faith, because no one will EVER be able to definitely prove their explanation of how it all began or how it all ends).
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back on subject. I hope everyone accomplishes their goals and finds satisfaction!
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Really!? You like yourself a lot huh?
Sorry. I've gotta agree on some points. Giving solid advice to pre-meds is one thing, but trying to sell your neo-con drivel via your "blog?" Poor show; poor show!
Anywho, Sam Weir, Colin Powell, and Don Draper walk into a bar. There sits Jon Voight still spewing over that darn Marxist Obama...
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Agreed. It's usually very civil around here.
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Well, yes, I do say that.
You're a resident. Are you saying that a PA with a 27 month masters degree is as well trained and competent as you will be with your 7+ years of training?
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I really am sorry, I know I shouldn't be doing this.
All you have done is push the question one step backwards.
Your logic could just as easily be applied to your god. What created him? And what created the thing that created your god? You stop the chain of logic at a convenient spot for the theology as it was given to you.
A nonbeliever might even try to answer the question rather than punting to god and calling it unknowable.
My 2 cents
even the evolutionists have to agree with the first law of thermodynamics which says, "energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but it can neither be created nor destroyed." So even if you do believe a big bang happened, where did that come from? a meteor? ok, where did that come from? At some point energy had to be created! It had to start somewhere!!!!
All you have done is push the question one step backwards.
Your logic could just as easily be applied to your god. What created him? And what created the thing that created your god? You stop the chain of logic at a convenient spot for the theology as it was given to you.
A nonbeliever might even try to answer the question rather than punting to god and calling it unknowable.
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