Northwestern Anesthesiology

[WhoPassedGas?]

I'm a current NU resident feel it necessary to give you a true inside look into my program, after inspiration from the Stony Brook thread. Some of the perceptions about our program have been skewed over the years, some for the worse, but mostly a lot for the better. When I was in your shoes _ years ago I took these false positive "great" things I heard about NU into account when making my rank list, and I've been regretting it since.

We are the hardest working program in Chicago bar none. We are overworked and abused to keep the revenue stream flowing in the ORs. I'm used like a pawn. The surgeons treat me like a disposable medical grade instrument. Surgery residents look down on me. And our faculty does nothing to have our backs. I barely have time to spend with my husband and family because by the time I'm home I'm in dire need of food and sleep. My relationship has been suffering - all because I'm free labor and used to relieve CRNAs.

I had excellent stats as an M4 and literally had my choice at programs, but I chose NU (my #1 at the time) due the name. I grew up in the midwest and everyone familiar with this area knows they dream of going purple. Well I pursued that dream and let me tell you it's just a fantasy. As an M4 I did an away at U Chicago and it was amazing. I ranked it #2 because I wanted a better location. NU has an amazing location, I'll give us that. But I've rarely had time to enjoy the city because I'm worked like an donkey. In retrospect had I gone to UC I would have been so happy. The faculty were allies with residents. The surgeons were friendly with the gas residents. They knew everyone's name and were so respectful. They didn't throw hissy fits if the pt moved while they were closing. They'd be so polite to ask for a few mins. The residents were treated like physicians, not disposable medical grade instruments.

The doubters that I anticipate adding to this thread will probably say "Well you probably didn't start residency with a realistic expectation." To which I say, it's not me, it's NU.

Our avg USMLE Step 1 two years ago was 244. Last year was 239. This year is 231. This is not a fluke. Don't believe anything I've said earlier, but the numbers can't lie. I think the M4s actually doing research into our program beyond our name are starting to realize that we aren't all that we are made out to be. They're talking to my co-residents and learning of our dissatisfaction here.

Speaking of my co-residents they're the type of people that drink tea with their pinkies up. They are elitist. They have entitlement issues and think their $*** smells like roses. When they go to MARC they look down on everyone. This is not my personality so I guess I've never fit in here from the beginning.

Welcome to The Real Northwestern Anesthesiology.

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[leigh83]

Thank you for sharing. I try to take everything I hear with a grain of salt, but if you are who you say you are this is pretty disturbing. I am sorry your residency experiences has been this way, and appreciate sharing your view with current applicants. Previously I thought NU > UChicago, but this is making me think UChicago ....> NU.

 

[gasthrowaway]

Thanks a ton for the info. What are your thoughts on Rush?

 

[chmd]

We work w NMH residents and I will confirm that it isn't as great as the name would suggest. This is of course only from hearing residents' complaints - specifically overworked, late exposure to cardiac (relative to ca1 experience -- essentially 6 weeks at the place I came from) and average regional experience. Also less than ideal faculty-resident relationships and lack of little niceties like free food.

Still I'd bet the name and network help tremendously with fellowship and job placement and isn't that the most important thing -- assuming at least adequate training?

 

[cognitus]

We work w NMH residents and I will confirm that it isn't as great as the name would suggest. This is of course only from hearing residents' complaints - specifically overworked, late exposure to cardiac (relative to ca1 experience -- essentially 6 weeks at the place I came from) and average regional experience. Also less than ideal faculty-resident relationships and lack of little niceties like free food.

Still I'd bet the name and network help tremendously with fellowship and job placement and isn't that the most important thing -- assuming at least adequate training?

What is "Average" regional experience and what is a normal time to get exposed to cardiac anesthesia in the CA-1 year?

 

[CodeBlu]

Wow. I thought NU was up there in terms of anesthesia programs. The name and all.

Edit: I did some digging around. Spoke to some other residents, and they agree that residency does suck at times. But, they also said they wouldn't rather be anywhere else for residency.
I know for a fact that a bunch of people in my med school class complained about one specific block and how poorly it was organized. They whined that they didn't feel ready for 3rd year etc etc etc. People love to complain. It's an unfortunate reality of life.

Different programs, different cities, different people. I am a true advocate of finding "the right fit." That's what I did for med school, and couldn't be happier.

 

[hrmm]

Have interviewed at every academic program in Chicago. My two cents: UChicago and UIC (University of Illinois Chicago) are the best. Incredible faculty representing big name programs (MGH, UCSF, Boston Children's, Hopkins, etc.), treat you with respect, great teaching, decent hours, NO pretentiousness.

 

[aneftp]

Have interviewed at every academic program in Chicago. My two cents: UChicago and UIC (University of Illinois Chicago) are the best. Incredible faculty representing big name programs (MGH, UCSF, Boston Children's, Hopkins, etc.), treat you with respect, great teaching, decent hours, NO pretentiousness.

My cuz has been or currently been recent resident and attending at one of the above "top tier" programs the past 9 years.

She says residents are working like dogs. Many young faculty recently left.

The beat goes goes on. No program is perfect.

Just my 2 cents. Just go where you will be relatively happy.

It's residency. Tough it out.

 

[WhoPassedGas?]

Thanks a ton for the info. What are your thoughts on Rush?

No fellowship tracks except pain. Anything else I say wouldn't be fact based, just what I've heard from other residents, so that's not fair to the program. I'd ask some current residents for the real inside scoop. Sorry.

We work w NMH residents and I will confirm that it isn't as great as the name would suggest. This is of course only from hearing residents' complaints - specifically overworked, late exposure to cardiac (relative to ca1 experience -- essentially 6 weeks at the place I came from) and average regional experience. Also less than ideal faculty-resident relationships and lack of little niceties like free food.

Still I'd bet the name and network help tremendously with fellowship and job placement and isn't that the most important thing -- assuming at least adequate training?

Sure it helps to be at NU if you want to do a fellowship here. But then you're buying into additional years of the most malignant, pretentious environment imaginable in the Midwest. Good luck not being divorced by then. We're evening losing respect within ASA; other top anesthesiologists are fed up with our faculty's "I'm better than Jesus Christ" attitude and we are getting shunned at the national level. I'd bet two years from now we become a Caribbean factory.

 

[The1%]

Speaking of my co-residents they're the type of people that drink tea with their pinkies up. They are elitist. They have entitlement issues and think their $*** smells like roses. When they go to MARC they look down on everyone. This is not my personality so I guess I've never fit in here from the beginning.

It sounds to me like WhoPassedGas?'s personality is just one of general misery. So she hates the program, she hates the surgeons, and she hates her co-residents. Why not do something else? Seriously, if you guys can't see the big picture that coming from a program known for hard work with loads of clinical volume will lead to better employability, you might as well be a Walmart greeter. Then you can sit on your rear all day and enjoy the "niceties like free food," just like the anesthesiologist you're striving to become.

Most of us who chose anesthesiology did so as a lifestyle decision--we like the hours and we like the pay. That's not to say it's the only consideration, but it definitely doesn't hurt. But it's a freaking residency, we're training so that in four years, we can be the type of people who get to drink tea with our pinkies up. Yes, I go home feeling sodomized sometimes, but I know in the end I'll be better trained and more marketable.

 

[chmd]

You're right. Why would anyone want to go to a program that created an atmosphere of collegiality by providing bagels to the department breakroom on Tuesdays? I'd much rather go someplace that didn't bother.

Even better if I could relieve a CRNA doing cataracts at 6pm as a CA3. That makes us much more employable.

 

[Mman]

We are the hardest working program in Chicago bar none. We are overworked and abused to keep the revenue stream flowing in the ORs. I'm used like a pawn. The surgeons treat me like a disposable medical grade instrument. Surgery residents look down on me. And our faculty does nothing to have our backs. I barely have time to spend with my husband and family because by the time I'm home I'm in dire need of food and sleep. My relationship has been suffering - all because I'm free labor and used to relieve CRNAs.

How many hours a week on average are you in the hospital? And I'm not talking about ICU months, but average OR rotation. 50 hours a week? 60? Unless you are working > 65-70 hours a week in the OR, you aren't working that much harder than many other elite programs. My program averaged about 60 hours per week in the OR not including call weeks (night shift). I thought it was tough, but reasonable and doable.

 

[crnasuccs]

It sounds to me like WhoPassedGas?'s personality is just one of general misery. So she hates the program, she hates the surgeons, and she hates her co-residents. Why not do something else? Seriously, if you guys can't see the big picture that coming from a program known for hard work with loads of clinical volume will lead to better employability, you might as well be a Walmart greeter. Then you can sit on your rear all day and enjoy the "niceties like free food," just like the anesthesiologist you're striving to become.

Most of us who chose anesthesiology did so as a lifestyle decision--we like the hours and we like the pay. That's not to say it's the only consideration, but it definitely doesn't hurt. But it's a freaking residency, we're training so that in four years, we can be the type of people who get to drink tea with our pinkies up. Yes, I go home feeling sodomized sometimes, but I know in the end I'll be better trained and more marketable.

No offense, but you sound like the uber douche that the OP was referring to. I mean, judging by your screenname and all. I guarantee you popped your collars in college. Yeah - you're that guy.

 

[Philosiraptor]

No offense, but you sound like the uber douche that the OP was referring to. I mean, judging by your screenname and all. I guarantee you popped your collars in college. Yeah - you're that guy.

I dunno crnasuccs, judging by the kind of stuff you're posting at the U of C thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php?threads/university-of-chicago-anesthesia.1040437/ that's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

Quit the name calling and please share objective, helpful information if you can. Not hearsay.

Yes, I've heard some of the same things the OP of this thread said about NU. I've heard them about Rush, and U of C. Every single large, busy program is bound to have its problems and detractors. Do an away there if you can, go by your gut feeling when you interview. All three of the above mentioned programs have phenomenal fellowship and job placement, and you will be competent coming out of any single one. Whether your personality jives with the personalities there or not...well that's the whole point of the interview process.

At the end of the day, anesthesia residents are going to be working less on avg than our colleagues in medicine and surgery. You'll see that when you get to intern year, unless you're in some cush TY program.

Good luck.

 

[GaseousClay]

very surprising no one has come to the defense of the northwestern program. when i was applying i heard a lot of good things and i have some med school classmates who went there for residency. sucks to hear that its just good in name only..

 

[Anes23]

I am currently a senior resident at NU and I feel that I have to respond to the post by WhoPassedGas because I have a different opinion of our residency program. Yes it is true that we work very hard, likely harder than the other residency programs in Chicago. However, we also finish residency completely prepared to be Attendings and able to find great jobs and fellowships. I have worked with residents from most of the other programs in the city, and our hours are not drastically different from any of theirs. Also, NU recently started paying us extra if we work past 5pm. I haven't heard of any other Chicago programs offering this benefit. We work 55-65 hours/week on most rotations and I don't feel that is unreasonable. Yes, there are times when we get stuck in the OR late. And yes there are times when I am sick of residency. But it is not true that NU treats us like slaves. This is residency, not preschool. Obviously we are going to have to work hard. I chose NU because I wanted good training and a good education. I wasn't looking for an easy ride, and if you are, NU is not the place for you.

Like WhoPassedGas, I am married and I understand how difficult it can be to make time for family during residency. However, my schedule now is much better than it was during my intern year. I have at least 2 weekends off per month. My call requests are taken seriously and I usually get the days off I request. I make it home in time to have dinner with my spouse almost every night. And the statement that our Attendings don't have our backs is a complete lie. Many of our Attendings work tirelessly on resident education and dedicate their time to trying to make NU a better place to train. Of course there will always be a few Attendings who are unpleasant to work with, but you will find that at every program. Just like every hospital, some of the surgeons are jerks. But if you learn to stick up for yourself and take ownership of your patients, they treat you with respect. I have never been treated like a "disposable medical grade instrument."

The thing I find most laughable is the way WhoPassedGas characterizes her co-residents. I'm not sure who she's been working with, but my co-residents are certainly not elitist and pretentious. I work with awesome people. My co-residents are willing to switch calls at the last minute or cover for someone if necessary. We all have each other's backs. I can honestly say I am friends with every single person in my class and we all enjoy hanging out together outside of work. Hands-down the best thing about this program is the residents.

Residency is going to be hard, no matter where you go. You should never pick a place just for its name. Pick a program where you fit in with the other residents and think you'll be happy. And never judge a program based on one person's opinion. Do an away rotation or at least talk to as many current and former residents as possible. Do your research and know what you're getting into before you make your rank list. You are responsible for your own happiness in life, including during residency.

 

[GaseousClay]

I am currently a senior resident at NU and I feel that I have to respond to the post by WhoPassedGas because I have a different opinion of our residency program. Yes it is true that we work very hard, likely harder than the other residency programs in Chicago. However, we also finish residency completely prepared to be Attendings and able to find great jobs and fellowships. I have worked with residents from most of the other programs in the city, and our hours are not drastically different from any of theirs. Also, NU recently started paying us extra if we work past 5pm. I haven't heard of any other Chicago programs offering this benefit. We work 55-65 hours/week on most rotations and I don't feel that is unreasonable. Yes, there are times when we get stuck in the OR late. And yes there are times when I am sick of residency. But it is not true that NU treats us like slaves. This is residency, not preschool. Obviously we are going to have to work hard. I chose NU because I wanted good training and a good education. I wasn't looking for an easy ride, and if you are, NU is not the place for you.

Like WhoPassedGas, I am married and I understand how difficult it can be to make time for family during residency. However, my schedule now is much better than it was during my intern year. I have at least 2 weekends off per month. My call requests are taken seriously and I usually get the days off I request. I make it home in time to have dinner with my spouse almost every night. And the statement that our Attendings don't have our backs is a complete lie. Many of our Attendings work tirelessly on resident education and dedicate their time to trying to make NU a better place to train. Of course there will always be a few Attendings who are unpleasant to work with, but you will find that at every program. Just like every hospital, some of the surgeons are jerks. But if you learn to stick up for yourself and take ownership of your patients, they treat you with respect. I have never been treated like a "disposable medical grade instrument."

The thing I find most laughable is the way WhoPassedGas characterizes her co-residents. I'm not sure who she's been working with, but my co-residents are certainly not elitist and pretentious. I work with awesome people. My co-residents are willing to switch calls at the last minute or cover for someone if necessary. We all have each other's backs. I can honestly say I am friends with every single person in my class and we all enjoy hanging out together outside of work. Hands-down the best thing about this program is the residents.

Residency is going to be hard, no matter where you go. You should never pick a place just for its name. Pick a program where you fit in with the other residents and think you'll be happy. And never judge a program based on one person's opinion. Do an away rotation or at least talk to as many current and former residents as possible. Do your research and know what you're getting into before you make your rank list. You are responsible for your own happiness in life, including during residency.

if this is the case then CMON MAN! 55-65 hrs/week and complaining?? My program works easily more than that on OR/ICU months hands down. suck it up and get to the finish line

 

[NotoriousG.A.S.]

As a recent graduate of Northwestern Anesthesiology, I also felt compelled to respond to the above post with a couple of thoughts. First of all, the original poster is clearly and unfortunately a marginalized individual, as evidenced by the fact that he/she seems to hate everyone at NU, particularly his/her co-residents. Regardless of what you think about our training program (and I'll share my opinion of it in a second), the residents at Northwestern are by and large friendly, fun, hard-working team-players, with few-and-far-between exceptions. By the time we graduate, we have become a pretty tight-knit group of friends and colleagues (this was particularly true for my class, but was also the case with the two previous classes and is already true of the current CA-3s). For current/future applicants, I would hesitate to place significant stock in the opinion of someone (I am guessing a junior resident) who just insulted 60 of his/her peers, as this hostility places them outside the mainstream culture of comaraderie that I believe exists at Northwestern. I wish that he/she would use their colleagues as a source of support during what is obviously a difficult time rather than resorting to bizarre name-calling.

We do work hard at Northwestern. The workload, however, is not even close to unreasonable, and, as has already been alluded to, is definitely a means-to-an-end. Things have even improved from my time as a resident, with the department now paying residents that stay late and allowing on-call OB residents to come in at 5pm. Was staying up all night on busy OB calls painful? Yeah, it was. But will my experience placing 500-some-odd epidurals serve me well in my career? Definitely. Morale tends to sag a bit CA-1 year, and I think that this is at least partially due to the program frontloading our experience with general-OR rotations. Although this causes something of a knowledge plateau about halfway through that year, this is temporary, and the learning curve steepens again the following spring/summer, when residents move on to Children's, to the 7th floor for cardiothoracic, or to neuro, regional, etc. The upside is that our 2nd and 3rd years are loaded with subspecialty rotations, electives, and research. And as a 1st year you can continue to challenge yourself by mastering the general OR, pushing the envelope from an efficiency standpoint, and making yourself an asset.

As for the attendings, some are more enjoyable to work with than others, like at any other large program I'm sure, but for the most part they are smart and friendly and treat you with respect. Some of them have their "quirks", but honestly, finding the humor in those "quirks" can make the day-to-day at NU fun enjoyable. Many of the attendings are truly excellent teachers, with some being among the finest educators I've ever been exposed to. And the comment that "many young faculty recently left" is not, to the best of my knowledge, true.

If you're planning to base your residency choice on a need for constant fluffing with positive feedback, on whether or not free food is served, or "early start cardiac" (???), then Northwestern may not be for you. If, on the other hand, you are interested in working hard to acquire skills and experience necessary to succeed at a fast-paced private practice; if you're interested in being a team player and in working with colleagues who will become lifelong friends; if you're interested in training in a beautiful hospital that's steps from the lake and Michigan Avenue, then I suggest you give us a look.

 

[drbribri]

My name is Brian and I am a CA2 at Northwestern. Although residency is a shared experience, it is also a personal experience that affects us all in different ways. When looking for a residency program, my only suggestion is to find a program where you position yourself for success. Find a place where you feel comfortable with the work environment (i.e.. hospital, residents, attendings, city), where you have a strong support network of family/friends outside of the hospital, and where the training is balanced and fully prepares you for life as an attending. For me, I love (thats right, LOVE) my co-residents, love living in downtown Chicago, love our hospital campus (Lurie Childrens, Prentice Womens, and NMH), love indulging in the foodie scene, love running along Lakeshore Drive in the summer and appreciate the quality of training in our residency program. That's me. Even discounting the fact that I am an overwhelmingly positive person at baseline, I remain happy here and would not change any of my experiences hence far. Our program is by no means perfect, but Dr Sullivan (residency director) et al are attentive to our suggestions and continue to make meaningful strides in improving our residency experience. Most recently acknowledging our late stays and finding a way for us to get paid $75/hour after 5pm.

As you read various posts and comments about Northwestern and other programs on SDN, I entreat you to find a program that is right for you. Take full advantage on interview day. Meet with as many residents as you can. Ask pointed questions about work hours, resident satisfaction, CRNA involvement, call schedules, collegiality among attending staff, etc. Spend time walking through the hospital. Explore the surrounding area/city. Find the program that it well suited to your needs and best positions you going forward. I wish you the best in your search! Feel free to message me with specific questions

Life is Beautiful.

 

[WhoPassedGas?]

I'm the OP and I continue to maintain what I've said in my original post. The others who have come to the defense of NU are only doing so to "save face" of their home institution. I can't go into further detail on why exactly they all came rushing to the defense, but you're applying for anesthesiology - you're smart - figure it out yourself.

I respect everyone's opinion regarding my institution but I am steadfast in knowing I'm the only resident at NU with the balls to stand up and potentially and regrettably tarnish my program's reputation in order to save some current M4s the misfortune of matching here. And yes, I'm a female

I'm also one of the nicest and non-judgemental people you'll ever meet. Which is why I find laughable when people were saying you seem to hate everything and everyone. It's my co-residents that look down on everyone, not me. I put my scrubs on one leg at a time: just like the OR housekeepers, just like our Chairwoman. Some of you forget that.

I will now cease posting to this thread out of fear of retribution, but you are most welcome to PM me. Good luck.

 

[Ipassgastoo]

Whopassedgas?, I am sorry about your experience with our program. I am a CA2 at NU. I heard from another resident about this post and I felt compelled to give my honest opinion. I am not trying to save face and I didn't even have to reply. I am always 100% honest with all of our med students as I feel that they should see if the program is truly a good fit for them or not.

I feel that your description of our program is, to put it nicely, grossly inaccurate. My experience has been the opposite. I interviewed with Sullivan, Nava, and Nathan and felt very welcomed and that I would be a good fit. I cancelled the rest of my interviews (I applied outside the match a couple of years ago). I have not regretted that choice. As most residents would agree Sullivan is a terrific resident advocate. He was very instrumental in implementing the late pay program that just went into effect,among other things. The vast majority of our attendings are very talented and personable and very pleasant to work with. They are resident advocates and will stand up to anyone who is abusing residents, in my experience. Yes, we have lost a few talented attendings who I miss working with. I can not speculate as to why, but I can say that our program has hired some excellent attendings as well. There are very accomplished, well known attendings in every department, OB, Cardiac, ICU, Neuro, Pain, Regional, etc. Working under them not only is an awesome opportunity to learn and publish but also to match well in fellowship spots.

When it comes to our co-residents your comments are completely off. I was at MARC. I can tell you from firsthand experience that there was no "elitist" attitudes from anyone of us. I had never heard anyone refer to our residents as elitists until today. It's laughable. Like bribri (I love you brother), I enjoy working with the vast majority of the residents who I call friends. We work hard and play hard. We are team players for sure. I have not had a single request turned down by the chiefs (shout out to my girl AN - I like pillows) when it came to scheduling. Every single time I needed to rearrange my schedule I have always had co-residents volunteer to cover. They have gone above and beyond to help.The attendings who are responsible for the final schedule have replied to my emails in the middle of the night to help me move things around when my kid was born.

And finally, about working "like a donkey", honestly, what did you think residency was going to be like? We work 55-65 hours/week, which is probably close to or even less than most private practice anesthesiologists work. We have two weekends off a month and the other two we are either on call Sat or Sun. On most days, I can fit in a workout, pick my kid up from day care, go home and still have dinner by 6. It's no different than having a real job. And for people who complain about OB call and no perks, the attendings on OB buy dinner with their own money for every resident on call, every night. Now, you get paid $75/hr if you stay in house after 5 pm. Ask a surgery resident what they think about that? Those poor chaps live in the hospital.

Our program might not be perfect or even Man's Greatest Hospital, but I think we do pretty well. There is a good balance of cases, learning experiences and lifestyle. Our board preparation is excellent and our fellowship match is just as good. I feel strongly this institution is preparing me well for the future, while enjoying my tme here, in the company of my co-residents and living in Chicago.

These are only my reflections. I have no ill feelings about you and your comments, I just feel that someone should give both sides of the story.

 

[jeffblue]

Whopassedgas?, I am sorry about your experience with our program. I am a CA2 at NU. I heard from another resident about this post and I felt compelled to give my honest opinion. I am not trying to save face and I didn't even have to reply. I am always 100% honest with all of our med students as I feel that they should see if the program is truly a good fit for them or not.

I feel that your description of our program is, to put it nicely, grossly inaccurate. My experience has been the opposite. I interviewed with Sullivan, Nava, and Nathan and felt very welcomed and that I would be a good fit. I cancelled the rest of my interviews (I applied outside the match a couple of years ago). I have not regretted that choice. As most residents would agree Sullivan is a terrific resident advocate. He was very instrumental in implementing the late pay program that just went into effect,among other things. The vast majority of our attendings are very talented and personable and very pleasant to work with. They are resident advocates and will stand up to anyone who is abusing residents, in my experience. Yes, we have lost a few talented attendings who I miss working with. I can not speculate as to why, but I can say that our program has hired some excellent attendings as well. There are very accomplished, well known attendings in every department, OB, Cardiac, ICU, Neuro, Pain, Regional, etc. Working under them not only is an awesome opportunity to learn and publish but also to match well in fellowship spots.

When it comes to our co-residents your comments are completely off. I was at MARC. I can tell you from firsthand experience that there was no "elitist" attitudes from anyone of us. I had never heard anyone refer to our residents as elitists until today. It's laughable. Like bribri (I love you brother), I enjoy working with the vast majority of the residents who I call friends. We work hard and play hard. We are team players for sure. I have not had a single request turned down by the chiefs (shout out to my girl AN - I like pillows) when it came to scheduling. Every single time I needed to rearrange my schedule I have always had co-residents volunteer to cover. They have gone above and beyond to help.The attendings who are responsible for the final schedule have replied to my emails in the middle of the night to help me move things around when my kid was born.

And finally, about working "like a donkey", honestly, what did you think residency was going to be like? We work 55-65 hours/week, which is probably close to or even less than most private practice anesthesiologists work. We have two weekends off a month and the other two we are either on call Sat or Sun. On most days, I can fit in a workout, pick my kid up from day care, go home and still have dinner by 6. It's no different than having a real job. And for people who complain about OB call and no perks, the attendings on OB buy dinner with their own money for every resident on call, every night. Now, you get paid $75/hr if you stay in house after 5 pm. Ask a surgery resident what they think about that? Those poor chaps live in the hospital.

Our program might not be perfect or even Man's Greatest Hospital, but I think we do pretty well. There is a good balance of cases, learning experiences and lifestyle. Our board preparation is excellent and our fellowship match is just as good. I feel strongly this institution is preparing me well for the future, while enjoying my tme here, in the company of my co-residents and living in Chicago.

These are only my reflections. I have no ill feelings about you and your comments, I just feel that someone should give both sides of the story.

How about the allegations of cant wear undershirts? specific jewelry, rumors ? These are serious allegations and can make the life of a resident miserable. This does not sound like a supportive environment at all

 

[beerog2003]

OP,

The bright side is that you have chosen a great career. Hopefully you have shared your frustrations with the chief residents, PD and department chairwoman. What was their response? By the prompt responses of your fellow residents it seems as though people do care about the program's reputation. Maybe you can be the spark that can make the program better. NU is a great institution, no one program or class will take that away.

I have a couple of former classmates that are at NU, one in anesthesiology and one in surgery and they work hard but they enjoy that. Maybe they take solace in the fact that having NU on the resume will definitely not limit your career aspirations.

By the way surgeons give us a hard time sometimes because they are jealous lol. Good luck with the rest of residency. I know it's not the easiest thing to do but if it is that bad they do offer options to transfer to different programs.

 

[GasHappens]

I am also a CA2 at Northwestern (holla to my boys DrBriBri and LD). I heard about this post the other day and also feel the need to contribute my opinion. To WhoPasssedGas, i would just say that I'm really sorry you are having that experience here. The first few months of CA1 year were really rough for me too because of the learning curve and because I had to get to know everybody, but I promise it gets better. Part of the challenge of CA1 year and becoming an anesthesiologist in general is learning how to not let yourself be treated like a surgical grade instrument - it's a professional hazard (ie we obviously aren't just airway, bagel, coffee). Urologists may think our sole functions are to adjust the table height and to provide absolute paralysis during any and all MACs, but we know better, Just calmly and professionallycommunicate with them and they will respond to you in kind. If they don't, calmly and professionally tell your attending what happened and your attendings will almost always stick up for you. I literally had one of our attendings (one of our pain medicine people) tell me that if any surgeons ever disrespect me to let him know, because he will not let them f#ck with me. And I hadn't even worked with him before, that's just how he feels about his residents at baseline. I think the urologist that day was afraid that my attending was going to cut him after the surgeon decided to throw a fit about my decision to put in a central line. In the end, I put in that central line, the surgeon grumbled under his breath in the corner, the patient was better served, and I highly enjoyed the entire experience.

As for the elitist remark, I don't even know where that is coming from since my coresidents/CA3s/CA1s are essentially universally approachable and awesome. And I simply don't have the hand-eye coordination required to drink anything with my pinkies pointed up. Also, I was at MARC too, but the reason I barely talked to anyone is because I attended only a smidgeon of the conference to present and was enjoying a free trip to KC to hang out with my family (thanks NU!). Sorry if it seemed rude to my anesthesia colleagues, but you guys just can't compare to my mother. If that makes me an elitist, guilty as charged I guess.

The reason so many ofthe current/past residents are "rushing" to respond to this post is not because we have some weird shady agenda that you alluded to in your last post. It's because while I do respect your opinion, I just don't think it's accurate and I think it's downright unfair to misrepresent some of the excellent people that are at Northwestern who do strongly advocate for residents (Sullivan, Nathan, Deleon, Carabini, Gould (!)and Yaghmour to name just a few). I absolutely love (LOVE! my co-residents and would do anything for them, and I think if you reached out to a few of us you might find that we can help provide you some of the support that you deserve. I do think you have some balls that should be lauded for posting in this forum (they are just as big as mine since I'm a girl too !) and I think maybe if you are this unhappy then you could use those figurative balls to say something directly to one of our chiefs or to our PD, because they will really listen to your concerns. No one wants "retribution" here. We all know life is short, and no one wants you to waste it on being unhappy.

To everyone else reading these posts, I would say that yes, we work hard at Northwestern, and we do not in any way try to hide that. U of C may work less than we do, but I do not necessarily consider that to be an advantage. You need to see all kinds of **** happen in residency, because you don't want to see that **** for the first time as an attending and have no idea what to do when the malpractice is going to fall on you. I am not training to be a CRNA that works 7-3, I'm training to be an anesthesiologist. That said, I agree with the 2 weekends/month off and the 55-65 hr work week average that was cited earlier, which I think is pretty reasonable for residencies overall. I also think it's pretty awesome we get paid $75/hr after 5PM, because I've got bills, ya'll.

In short (sorry for the overly long), I also had excellent stats and could have theoretically chosen to go somewhere else. I however am having a great experience here and would not choose to go anywhere else if I had a do-over.

Anyway, good luck to everybody! Whatever happens, you've chosen a great field, and I hope you all find a place that you'll be happy at and that is a good fit for you!

 

[Ipassgastoo]

How about the allegations of cant wear undershirts? specific jewelry, rumors ? These are serious allegations and can make the life of a resident miserable. This does not sound like a supportive environment at all

Jeff, if I read correctly, these were allegations regarding U of C. I can't speak for women but as a dude I always wear an undershirt and a wedding ring. I have never heard of this rule. Maybe our female residents can clarify.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

I'm glad to see some Northwestern residents chime in. I respect the university as a whole and would be excited to interview an NU grad if we were hiring. I personally get irritated to see people complain about hours and med students trying to find the cushest hours. We are physicians and this is what we are doing for the rest of our lives. Also, there will be personalities to deal with and no, we are not "captain of the ship" nor do I want to be. If a surgeon or someone else wants to act bigger than me, so be it. You gotta move past that and ultimately do what's best for the patient. I have a feeling the OP would complain no matter where they are or what they are doing. Good luck though and hopefully I never work with you.

 

[aneftp]

Jeff, if I read correctly, these were allegations regarding U of C. I can't speak for women but as a dude I always wear an undershirt and a wedding ring. I have never heard of this rule. Maybe our female residents can clarify.

Usually standards allow for undershirts.

But long sleeve under shirts are not allowed in OR. That a subtle but big distinction.

Also they maybe going to start prohibiting nail polish very soon in the OR.

 

[crnasuccs]

Yes, we believe you. Classic XX hysteria--complain and complain but not do anything about it. If you're really so miserable, why not get the hell outta there? Come join us at UIC, where we get bagels, no one's in a hurry, and all your FMG coresidents are humble!

Tell your poor husband things'll be rosier in a couple days. Though I suspect we'll be hearing from you again in just about four weeks....

wow, that was rude. sounds exactly like the negative attitude the OP was referring to.

just fyi, my home institution PD (i'm at a top 3 med school in the country whose PD is very high up in ASA) frankly advised me not to do an away at northwestern. he said these guys arent respected on the national level (ASA) like they used to be due to their piss poor attitude. i can 100% corroborate that part of the OPs story.

 

[GaseousClay]

I'm glad to see some Northwestern residents chime in. I respect the university as a whole and would be excited to interview an NU grad if we were hiring. I personally get irritated to see people complain about hours and med students trying to find the cushest hours. We are physicians and this is what we are doing for the rest of our lives. Also, there will be personalities to deal with and no, we are not "captain of the ship" nor do I want to be. If a surgeon or someone else wants to act bigger than me, so be it. You gotta move past that and ultimately do what's best for the patient. I have a feeling the OP would complain no matter where they are or what they are doing. Good luck though and hopefully I never work with you.

what the....i thought i was pretty original with my username much respect to you for your name choice...any way for me to modify my name without having to make a new account mods??

 

[Arch Guillotti]

what the....i thought i was pretty original with my username much respect to you for your name choice...any way for me to modify my name without having to make a new account mods??

You can submit a request to the help desk.

Since your account is so new, the other option would be just to create a new one.

 

[Gaseous Clay]

what the....i thought i was pretty original with my username much respect to you for your name choice...any way for me to modify my name without having to make a new account mods??

Yea I noticed you last week. There's another user with the same name but spelled slightly different. I really don't care either way.

 

[LeetleDoctor]

The OPs words truly break my heart. I will not parry her joust by revealing her identity – but I feel quite hurt by her allegations that NW faculty and her co-residents have not been supportive of her clinical struggles. She is receiving support from her advisor, other administrative faculty, and call schedulers in an attempt to accommodate her to the best of our ability. Apparently we are not doing well enough, given that she felt the need to lash out on an anonymous blog. I just wish we could have had this discussion in a less public forum, as this has now descended into posts back and forth between her and others of us in the residency.

Personally I experienced sagging morale during November/December of my CA-1 year– this is due to the heavy case load as the year comes to a close and the frontloading of main OR rotations at our program. However, I was able to observe the contented demeanor of the CA-2s and 3s above me and I realized that this was simply one of the growing pains of being a CA-1. Additionally – I had friends from medical school that matched at Brigham, MGH and UCLA anesthesia programs and they all reported similar woes. After January of my CA-1 year, however, my satisfaction improved to the point that I am now ecstatic that I ranked NW #1. One of the best things about our training is you are not lulled into a false sense of academic security – the ORs run nearly as efficiently as in a private hospital. This prepares us well for attending positions and is likely why we are highly sought after by competitive anesthesia departments in the area and across the nation. As you will see when you begin applying for jobs – your employers want to see considerable substance in the record of your case logs. More procedures and more surgeries = improved experience and competence. We do have many residents stay on at NW for fellowship, which speaks to our satisfaction with this hospital overall, but many graduates also go away for fellowship (one of my co-CA3s matched at Brigham, another at Duke, and just today(!) a CA-3 got her dream job in Seattle – congrats lady

Also, anyone who has completed more than five months of anesthesia at NW (which the OP has not) realizes that at least a year of general OR experience is essential prior to beginning in the Cardiac/Transplant ORs. In that call pool, we are responsible not only for cardiac cases (including heart transplants) but also liver transplants, which are among the most tenuous of patients, hemodynamically labile, coagulopathic and thrombophilic , and are definitely not reasonable cases for someone who has only completed six weeks of anesthesia residency.

Regarding our respect on the national level – the research here is much more extensive than I had imagined it would be! Our functional MRI study is going to re-define management of chronic pain, the OB department continues to churn out original investigations, the neuroanesthesia department is full of experienced leaders in the field and bright young talent… I could go on. Many of our faculty are board examiners or co-authors of the leading textbooks in their fields (even junior faculty do this – Carabini wrote a chapter for Barash, Naveen illustrates Chestnut and the A&A cover and these are recent graduates). I suppose we aren't as prolific as the Harvard Programs in our publication output… but I do feel like we hold our own. I presented at the ASA meeting this year and was pleased with the representation of our department as a whole.

Anyway. Sigh. Obviously this post has created quite a stir in our department, and although the OP did very little to conceal her identity given all the personal information contained in her original post, rest assured that there will be no repercussions for her at our institution. That too, speaks volumes about the character of Northwestern. I hope those of you reading her post, incidentally just prior to interview season, will take into account that this is one person’s opinion and will judge from the surge of other positive posts that this is not a sentiment shared by even a minority of her colleagues.

 

[jeffblue]

The OPs words truly break my heart. I will not parry her joust by revealing her identity – but I feel quite hurt by her allegations that NW faculty and her co-residents have not been supportive of her clinical struggles. She is receiving support from her advisor, other administrative faculty, and call schedulers in an attempt to accommodate her to the best of our ability. Apparently we are not doing well enough, given that she felt the need to lash out on an anonymous blog. I just wish we could have had this discussion in a less public forum, as this has now descended into posts back and forth between her and others of us in the residency.

Personally I experienced sagging morale during November/December of my CA-1 year– this is due to the heavy case load as the year comes to a close and the frontloading of main OR rotations at our program. However, I was able to observe the contented demeanor of the CA-2s and 3s above me and I realized that this was simply one of the growing pains of being a CA-1. Additionally – I had friends from medical school that matched at Brigham, MGH and UCLA anesthesia programs and they all reported similar woes. After January of my CA-1 year, however, my satisfaction improved to the point that I am now ecstatic that I ranked NW #1. One of the best things about our training is you are not lulled into a false sense of academic security – the ORs run nearly as efficiently as in a private hospital. This prepares us well for attending positions and is likely why we are highly sought after by competitive anesthesia departments in the area and across the nation. As you will see when you begin applying for jobs – your employers want to see considerable substance in the record of your case logs. More procedures and more surgeries = improved experience and competence. We do have many residents stay on at NW for fellowship, which speaks to our satisfaction with this hospital overall, but many graduates also go away for fellowship (one of my co-CA3s matched at Brigham, another at Duke, and just today(!) a CA-3 got her dream job in Seattle – congrats lady

Also, anyone who has completed more than five months of anesthesia at NW (which the OP has not) realizes that at least a year of general OR experience is essential prior to beginning in the Cardiac/Transplant ORs. In that call pool, we are responsible not only for cardiac cases (including heart transplants) but also liver transplants, which are among the most tenuous of patients, hemodynamically labile, coagulopathic and thrombophilic , and are definitely not reasonable cases for someone who has only completed six weeks of anesthesia residency.

Regarding our respect on the national level – the research here is much more extensive than I had imagined it would be! Our functional MRI study is going to re-define management of chronic pain, the OB department continues to churn out original investigations, the neuroanesthesia department is full of experienced leaders in the field and bright young talent… I could go on. Many of our faculty are board examiners or co-authors of the leading textbooks in their fields (even junior faculty do this – Carabini wrote a chapter for Barash, Naveen illustrates Chestnut and the A&A cover and these are recent graduates). I suppose we aren't as prolific as the Harvard Programs in our publication output… but I do feel like we hold our own. I presented at the ASA meeting this year and was pleased with the representation of our department as a whole.

Anyway. Sigh. Obviously this post has created quite a stir in our department, and although the OP did very little to conceal her identity given all the personal information contained in her original post, rest assured that there will be no repercussions for her at our institution. That too, speaks volumes about the character of Northwestern. I hope those of you reading her post, incidentally just prior to interview season, will take into account that this is one person’s opinion and will judge from the surge of other positive posts that this is not a sentiment shared by even a minority of her colleagues.

I have as should you a lot of respect for the op who came on here only to help other people NOT match at NW. She feels it is malignant and I'm almost certain it is since there are plenty of oneposters who came on here to defend the place. Moreover, each of these one posters kind of corroborated the op experiences.
Anesthesia is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. You dont need to feel like your life is going to end everyday just to please faculty, And you most certainly don't need to live in fear of faculty. There should be a supportive environment. IF the OP suffers any demise or harm from this this thread it strengthens her argument to be a program to be avoided..

 

[LeetleDoctor]

I have as should you a lot of respect for the op who came on here only to help other people NOT match at NW. She feels it is malignant and I'm almost certain it is since there are plenty of oneposters who came on here to defend the place. Moreover, each of these one posters kind of corroborated the op experiences.
Anesthesia is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. You dont need to feel like your life is going to end everyday just to please faculty, And you most certainly don't need to live in fear of faculty. There should be a supportive environment. IF the OP suffers any demise or harm from this this thread it strengthens her argument to be a program to be avoided..

Did you read my last paragraph? I specifically state she has not and will not suffer any retribution, despite her harsh words about her co-residents. The fact that so many of us have taken the time to make new accounts to talk about our own positive experiences at NW demonstrates our loyalty to the program. I have not perused this website since medical school but if her post had gone unchallenged it would have been taken as a tacit agreement with her stance by our residency as a whole. You are free to agree with her as you see fit - but those of us who have actually had the NW training experience and took the time to be "oneposters" believe that her comments about our program are unfounded.

 

[cchoukal]

How about the allegations of cant wear undershirts? specific jewelry, rumors ? These are serious allegations and can make the life of a resident miserable. This does not sound like a supportive environment at all

Serious allegations? Take a breath. The undershirt/jewelry thing is IL department of public health thing, not an individual hospital thing. No undershirts, no earrings, a watch only if it has a second hand, and no cloth bonnets or hats; paper bonnets only. If some of the Chicago places don't enforce this, it's because they haven't been audited for it yet.

 

[GasHappens]

wow, that was rude. sounds exactly like the negative attitude the OP was referring to.

just fyi, my home institution PD (i'm at a top 3 med school in the country whose PD is very high up in ASA) frankly advised me not to do an away at northwestern. he said these guys arent respected on the national level (ASA) like they used to be due to their piss poor attitude. i can 100% corroborate that part of the OPs story.

I'd just like to point out The1% is not a northwestern resident, he clearly said he was a uic resident, so he does not have anything to do with the attitudes at northwestern the OP was referencing. As for your "top 3" PD advising you not to do an away at northwestern because we aren't "respected on a national level," congrats! it sounds to me like your current program will well prepare you to be an entitled elitist somewhere else. Hearing a rumor of a rumor does not 100% corroborate anything, even in a field as gossipy as anesthesia, and it's just silly to suggest otherwise. Our grads get the jobs and fellowships they are happy with, and at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

 

[DrComfortablyNumb]

Hello All.
I will be the first one to admit that I have never posted to one of these threads before, I therefore embrace that I am a 'oneposter'. I have completed my residency at NU and have close friends in other 'top tier' programs. While I freely admit that I have truly hated being a resident at times, I can honestly say that this is not a uniquely Northwestern phenomenon. I can also say that I am proud to have graduated from Northwestern and that I look back at my residency years fondly. I can also say that my education at NU was excellent and that I enter into job market confident in my training.
The first topic I would like to comment on is the workload at Northwestern. I want to emphasize the importance of some advice to the applicants that has already been addressed in the previous posts. You HAVE to look for a good fit. I ranked NU number 1 and have never regretted it. Your options for workload are as follows: you can choose a high volume program that will lead to you having more work hours than some of your colleagues but you will graduate with a very broad and thorough experience in almost everything, or you can choose a lower volume program and have a better resident lifestyle but run the risk of seeing a case for the first time as an attending without backup. Either of these are valid options, but you have to choose which you are more comfortable with. Some people will argue that you can still get adequate experience at low volume institutions, and I agree. However, certain events that we must be prepared for are very rare (local anesthetic toxicity, amniotic fluid embolus, etc) and you will only see them if you are exposed to a large number of cases. Perhaps you may 'get lucky' and see it anyway, but you could just as easily not see it at all if you are not exposed to a large number of cases.
The next topic I would like to comment on is the elitist attitude of the residents. I don't even know where to start. First of all, this is clearly the opinion of one person, and it is obviously not shared by the subsequent posters. I would argue that if the motives of the OP were to be truthful and informative, they should have left this portion of the post out. I would urge all future applicants to get in touch with current and former residents (or come interview) and arrive at your own conclusions. I can only say that I wholeheartedly disagree. I have formed strong and long-lasting friendships with my co-residents and could not imagine working with a better group of people.
Finally, regarding the way anesthesia residents are treated. Again, this is a subjective observation. I can only say that I was almost always treated with respect and that my attendings were always there for me when this was not the case. I do not know if the OP's experience has been affected by a couple bad experiences or if there are particular problems with interpersonal skills. Despite what many people think, anesthesiologists have to be able to talk to people. You will find that, no matter where you go, if you treat others with respect and act like a professional, you will get respect in return.
As one last comment, I would like to point out that airing these strong and offensive opinions on an anonymous blog does not mean that the OP has 'balls.' If the OP was truly so courageous these conversations would have been had face to face with co-residents, department leadership, and residency applicants.

 

[jeffblue]

This is eerily similar to the Medical College of Georgia thread.. Noone on this board is stupid enough to believe that the follow up 1 posters are residents at the institution. They are all probably junior senior faculty members trying to poke holes in the original posters opinion. The stuff that she brings up I believe. All residents feel over worked but they shouldnt live in fear as i said over and over. and it seems northwestern is a malignant program.Plain and simple. I trained at a community based program where there were a total of 7 residents. WE DID EVERYTHING. And the attendings treated us like gold. I got so much experience from this program it wasnt even funny. I got minimal to none didactics. I studied for everything on my own. SO it an be done. I would hate to get up early in the morning to listen to some faculty drone on and on about local enesthetic toxicity when i can read it on my own. Moreover I would hate for a program to put me on double secret probation for missing a few lectures. Because i can tell you if that was the case there would be no way i would graduate. I had robust discussions with my attendings in the room and thats all i needed. I studied for the boards on my own and I am more than competent. I would hate to go to a program like Northwestern harvard and the like because i truly dont believe you get better training at these institutions. Its a myth. pick your programs carefully. DOnt get caught up in the Name. CIAO

 

[DrComfortablyNumb]

This is eerily similar to the Medical College of Georgia thread.. Noone on this board is stupid enough to believe that the follow up 1 posters are residents at the institution. They are all probably junior senior faculty members trying to poke holes in the original posters opinion. The stuff that she brings up I believe. All residents feel over worked but they shouldnt live in fear as i said over and over. and it seems northwestern is a malignant program.Plain and simple. I trained at a community based program where there were a total of 7 residents. WE DID EVERYTHING. And the attendings treated us like gold. I got so much experience from this program it wasnt even funny. I got minimal to none didactics. I studied for everything on my own. SO it an be done. I would hate to get up early in the morning to listen to some faculty drone on and on about local enesthetic toxicity when i can read it on my own. Moreover I would hate for a program to put me on double secret probation for missing a few lectures. Because i can tell you if that was the case there would be no way i would graduate. I had robust discussions with my attendings in the room and thats all i needed. I studied for the boards on my own and I am more than competent. I would hate to go to a program like Northwestern harvard and the like because i truly dont believe you get better training at these institutions. Its a myth. pick your programs carefully. DOnt get caught up in the Name. CIAO

True, I am not a current resident. I am a former resident, thus the 'recent graduate' part. I can also honestly say that knowing my co-residents so well, those who have claimed to be current residents are indeed current residents. If you do not believe me that is fine, but no need to insult people who do.

 

[nimbus]

This is eerily similar to the Medical College of Georgia thread.. Noone on this board is stupid enough to believe that the follow up 1 posters are residents at the institution. They are all probably junior senior faculty members trying to poke holes in the original posters opinion. The stuff that she brings up I believe. All residents feel over worked but they shouldnt live in fear as i said over and over. and it seems northwestern is a malignant program.Plain and simple. I trained at a community based program where there were a total of 7 residents. WE DID EVERYTHING. And the attendings treated us like gold. I got so much experience from this program it wasnt even funny. I got minimal to none didactics. I studied for everything on my own. SO it an be done. I would hate to get up early in the morning to listen to some faculty drone on and on about local enesthetic toxicity when i can read it on my own. Moreover I would hate for a program to put me on double secret probation for missing a few lectures. Because i can tell you if that was the case there would be no way i would graduate. I had robust discussions with my attendings in the room and thats all i needed. I studied for the boards on my own and I am more than competent. I would hate to go to a program like Northwestern harvard and the like because i truly dont believe you get better training at these institutions. Its a myth. pick your programs carefully. DOnt get caught up in the Name. CIAO

It is ironic to see an 18 poster who joined 10 days ago and posts mainly to malign programs make comments about 1 posters. You seem to have an axe to grind.

 

[Azipropofol]

I would hate to go to a program like Northwestern harvard and the like

Sure Jeff, I'm sure you would pick community program xyz over MGH or NW if you could do it all over again.

 

[jeffblue]

Sure Jeff, I'm sure you would pick community program xyz over MGH or NW if you could do it all over again.

Yes I would. I will put my training against anyones training in my community program. I hate having mommy telling me to read and show up to lectures. My program used me as cheap labor. Absolutely. BUt they left me alone. THey couldnt care less if i ever read, but i did because i wanted to know a lot and i wanted to succeed. We had robust arguments and discussions all the time. i have no time for nit picking about underwear and jewelry and gossip. Thats a rough environment to be in. DOes not foster growth or leadership and this is why i say anyone reading this should do what i would do if i were in your situation. STAY AWAY!!!! at all costs. (unless you are a glutton for pain) I have no axe to grind. I am NOT affiliated with ANY academic program whatsoever. Im just telling it like it is...

 

[friedcalamari]

I'm interested in staying in chicago for residency being from Illinois and have looked into both NW and UofC. Both programs seem to be pretty polarizing in terms of if people like them or not. Seems like people either love them or hate them with few, if any, in between. The comments on here are troubling and seem to echo a lot of the more recent posts on Scutwork about NW. I know I'll have to wait until my interview at NW to really formulate my opinion, but having numerous bad experiences reported, be it on SDN or scutwork, is certainly a red flag.

 

[thinkorswim]

I would hate to go to a program like Northwestern harvard and the like because i truly dont believe you get better training at these institutions.

Sure Jeff, I'm sure you would pick community program xyz over MGH or NW if you could do it all over again.

There are far too many whiners on this thread.

People need to understand that while not all programs are created equally, they (mostly) all serve their purpose in creating a competent anesthesiologist. While larger "big name" programs may prepare you more for a career in academics, smaller community programs may in fact prepare you better for a career in private practice. Different strokes for different folks.

As for Northwestern, it's a shame that the OP is not currently happy with her program. But she needs to realize the difference between residency and true malignancy. Too many trainees coming through these days have a sense of entitlement that will cripple our field going forward. It's only temporary. Suck it up then move on.

At the same time, all these residents defending Northwestern need to realize that there is a difference between working long hours and working efficiently. I trained at a program that is at the higher end of the duty hours spectrum for anesthesiology (more than what is described in this thread), but the extra hours were more a result of system inefficiencies rather than educational experience. I knew it going in just as well as I knew it wouldn't make me a better anesthesiologist simply spending more hours in the hospital, but it was the price I was willing to pay to be at that program. Excuses are for the weak.

 

[hrmm]

There was a post on an NU thread a few years back about an NU resident who felt overworked/stressed at the environment at NU and transferred to UIC.

And for all you "oneposters," stop bullying OP lol. It comes off very elitist

 

[crnasuccs]

I'd just like to point out The1% is not a northwestern resident, he clearly said he was a uic resident, so he does not have anything to do with the attitudes at northwestern the OP was referencing. As for your "top 3" PD advising you not to do an away at northwestern because we aren't "respected on a national level," congrats! it sounds to me like your current program will well prepare you to be an entitled elitist somewhere else. Hearing a rumor of a rumor does not 100% corroborate anything, even in a field as gossipy as anesthesia, and it's just silly to suggest otherwise. Our grads get the jobs and fellowships they are happy with, and at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

my home PD wrote chapters in anesthesia books you've based your whole career on. so i'm pretty sure his word is definitive. if hes telling me to stay away from a place, thats a HUGE deal. hes not going to risk his reputation (albeit to some random M4) to put down a program unless he feels like it's completely necessary. and speaking of "gossip" this is a direct quote from scutwork: Some attendings will gossip about each other and other residents, even as far as talking about ranking who is better than who as in a NCAA draft. no offense, but dude thats messed up.

 

[HollATme]

I don't have a bone in the matter.

Given all these programs being called-out on an open forum, I'm certain there's many more programs (elite and community alike) out there that probably run a similar ship.

Good luck to those applying to anesthesiology residencies. Those who have a chance to look elsewhere should. In light of the changes in the healthcare and political climate, the inability for anesthesiologists to "have balls" against the CRNAs, and the ASA running a sinking ship campaign that is too little too late, it ain't worth it. In addition to all that, it's certainly not worth dealing with passive aggressive, gossipy, a-hole attendings common to anesthesia residencies either.

If you wish to still pursue anesthesiology, go to a program that traditionally is resident-friendly. I'm not saying go to a program that works you only 40 hrs. I'm saying go to a program where leadership and faculty are known to be resident advocates. Don't consider a program that is "righting the wrongs of their past" - no program will successfully be able to change their culture entirely, if at all.

 

[GasHappens]

my home PD wrote chapters in anesthesia books you've based your whole career on. so i'm pretty sure his word is definitive. if hes telling me to stay away from a place, thats a HUGE deal. hes not going to risk his reputation (albeit to some random M4) to put down a program unless he feels like it's completely necessary. and speaking of "gossip" this is a direct quote from scutwork: Some attendings will gossip about each other and other residents, even as far as talking about ranking who is better than who as in a NCAA draft. no offense, but dude thats messed up.

Dude, that would be messed up, especially if If that ever actually happened! And unless you are at Man's Greatest Hospital and your PD is the Lord Jesus Christ himself, or even if it is Dr. Miller who may be one and the same, he certainly hasn't written any chapters on northwestern anesthesia and I think it's just plain ridiculous to say his word on our program is "definitive." It's never "completely necessary" to put down another program, except apparently on anonymous internet forums. And lots of people write anesthesia book chapters that we base our careers on, sweetheart, including those chapters written by attendings i get to work with everyday. That however does not mean we should accept everything they say as the gospel truth.

The "gossip" I was referring to had more to do with the people on this thread who have had no real interaction with our program and yet are "100÷ corroborating" rumors about northwestern because they heard the rumor somewhere else from a friend of a friend. Rumors are not definitive facts, they are in fact just gossip. Yes, the OP had an opinion. So did all of the subsequent resident posters. Discern for yourselves who you believe.

Another poster said it best. Red flag us if you must, but keep an open mind on interview day. My coresidents can then speak for themselves, including hopefully the OP who is free to be at those interviews, and you can all make up your own minds using real information, real experiences, and legitimate sources.

 

[Azipropofol]

Some attendings will gossip about each other and other residents, even as far as talking about ranking who is better than who as in a NCAA draft. no offense, but dude thats messed up.

This happens in any job though. You will be benchmarked in comparison to your peers and the laggers and the leaders will be talked about behind closed doors.

 

[Philosiraptor]

Boy, that escalated quickly!

If you want to stay around Chicago, I wouldn't overlook Rush Univ and to a lesser extent, Loyola Univ. People get caught up in the name recognition of Northwestern and U of Chicago, but often forget that their names are nationally known on the strength of their undergrad, other grad programs, and heck even sports teams (ok, maybe not sports for U of C). Try to step away from what a lay person (i.e., your family, friends not in medicine) think...its tough, but important.

For example, in NYC Mt. Sinai is a very popular and sought after anesthesia program but many people in the midwest haven't heard much about it or mistake it for Mt. Sinai hospital on the south side...but they have heard of Cornell, Columbia, NYU etc. Likewise, in the Northeast, people haven't heard much about Rush and surprisingly even Northwestern or U of C ("Northwestern...that's in Boston right?"--referring to Northeastern).

The folks that matter (i.e., the anesthesiology world) know better and know full well that Rush, Northwestern, U of C put out solid residents. Beyond that, it comes down to what you want after residency. All three will get you great fellowships. But, for PP jobs, Rush grads have an edge when it comes to being hired in the Chicagoland area. If you want to go into academia, U of C and Northwestern would be the best choices.

My own experience on the interview trail was that people will say one thing, and then do exactly the opposite when it comes to rank list time. To boost their own chances of matching at a particular place perhaps? Take everything you "hear" with a grain of salt, but let it guide you to ask more probing questions when you go interview.

For some, name is everything. For others, there are a host of other factors to consider.

Good luck!