Northwestern Anesthesiology

[crnasuccs]

Cancelled or will cancel +/- 3 days (trying to stay anonymous)

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[Consigliere]

I graduated from Rush over 10 years ago. I spent 3 months at what was then Children's Memorial in Chicago with Northwestern residents; some of the coolest cats I've ever had the pleasure of working with. I have no clue what the OP is talking about, nor do I care. Things must have changed radically or she's an idiot and I STRONGLY think it's the latter.

 

[friedcalamari]

I don't want to rehash the NW mudslinging, but I didn't know where else to post this. I haven't had my NW interview yet, but I wanted to get some questions answered before I go up there so I can keep the other programs I have, or will have, interviewed with in perspective...and plus I'm not going to be able to make the recruit event.
1) Who does room turnover/setup?
2) Do you ever relieve CRNAs?
3) Breakdown of single/married/kids?
4) Percent entering pp/academics/fellowship?
5) How smooth is the transition from PGY1 to CA1 from both a cat and adv tract?
6) Any disconnect between those who were in cat vs. adv tracts?

Any insight from former or current residents is welcomed as well as from people who interviewed there and still remember these answers.
Thanks so much!

 

[generalhospital32]

I'm a current NU resident feel it necessary to give you a true inside look into my program, after inspiration from the Stony Brook thread. Some of the perceptions about our program have been skewed over the years, some for the worse, but mostly a lot for the better. When I was in your shoes _ years ago I took these false positive "great" things I heard about NU into account when making my rank list, and I've been regretting it since.

We are the hardest working program in Chicago bar none. We are overworked and abused to keep the revenue stream flowing in the ORs. I'm used like a pawn. The surgeons treat me like a disposable medical grade instrument. Surgery residents look down on me. And our faculty does nothing to have our backs. I barely have time to spend with my husband and family because by the time I'm home I'm in dire need of food and sleep. My relationship has been suffering - all because I'm free labor and used to relieve CRNAs.

I had excellent stats as an M4 and literally had my choice at programs, but I chose NU (my #1 at the time) due the name. I grew up in the midwest and everyone familiar with this area knows they dream of going purple. Well I pursued that dream and let me tell you it's just a fantasy. As an M4 I did an away at U Chicago and it was amazing. I ranked it #2 because I wanted a better location. NU has an amazing location, I'll give us that. But I've rarely had time to enjoy the city because I'm worked like an donkey. In retrospect had I gone to UC I would have been so happy. The faculty were allies with residents. The surgeons were friendly with the gas residents. They knew everyone's name and were so respectful. They didn't throw hissy fits if the pt moved while they were closing. They'd be so polite to ask for a few mins. The residents were treated like physicians, not disposable medical grade instruments.

The doubters that I anticipate adding to this thread will probably say "Well you probably didn't start residency with a realistic expectation." To which I say, it's not me, it's NU.

Our avg USMLE Step 1 two years ago was 244. Last year was 239. This year is 231. This is not a fluke. Don't believe anything I've said earlier, but the numbers can't lie. I think the M4s actually doing research into our program beyond our name are starting to realize that we aren't all that we are made out to be. They're talking to my co-residents and learning of our dissatisfaction here.

Speaking of my co-residents they're the type of people that drink tea with their pinkies up. They are elitist. They have entitlement issues and think their $*** smells like roses. When they go to MARC they look down on everyone. This is not my personality so I guess I've never fit in here from the beginning.

Welcome to The Real Northwestern Anesthesiology.

 

[generalhospital32]

can anyone compare this vs UAB? aside from location.

 

[generalhospital32]

Anyone? Please

 

[Biochemist21]

can anyone compare this vs UAB? aside from location.

I think most people would agree that your workload is going to be significantly less at UAB and their moonlighting program is second to none. Your patient populations would be very different too. Birmingham isn't tiny, but it also doesn't have millions of people either. The advantage to this is that UAB is "the only game in town" for a rather huge swath of the South whereas NW is competing with several other hospitals in Chicago (I realize that this could be extrapolated to any other comparison of a major metropolitan hospital and a smaller city hospital). NW's facilities seemed a little newer than UAB's and food options were better, but that's really nitpicking. NW also seemed to emphasize research more strongly than UAB (whether that's a plus or minus is up to you). More people from UAB go straight into PP than NW.

I think you'd get good clinical exposure at both, and in many ways they are equivalent. Picking one over the other is going to have to do with prioritizing what aspects of either program are most important to you. More free time vs. more didactics. Big city vs. small city. I know you said "aside from location", but in talking to the residents it seems like location was a significant factor for most of them. One UAB resident said he picked UAB because he wanted to do residency somewhere that he could easily go hiking after work. That's what was important to him and he seemed very happy with his decision.

 

[generalhospital32]

I think most people would agree that your workload is going to be significantly less at UAB and their moonlighting program is second to none. Your patient populations would be very different too. Birmingham isn't tiny, but it also doesn't have millions of people either. The advantage to this is that UAB is "the only game in town" for a rather huge swath of the South whereas NW is competing with several other hospitals in Chicago (I realize that this could be extrapolated to any other comparison of a major metropolitan hospital and a smaller city hospital). NW's facilities seemed a little newer than UAB's and food options were better, but that's really nitpicking. NW also seemed to emphasize research more strongly than UAB (whether that's a plus or minus is up to you). More people from UAB go straight into PP than NW.

I think you'd get good clinical exposure at both, and in many ways they are equivalent. Picking one over the other is going to have to do with prioritizing what aspects of either program are most important to you. More free time vs. more didactics. Big city vs. small city. I know you said "aside from location", but in talking to the residents it seems like location was a significant factor for most of them. One UAB resident said he picked UAB because he wanted to do residency somewhere that he could easily go hiking after work. That's what was important to him and he seemed very happy with his decision.

Thank you very much for this excellent post. I really appreciate it. Best of luck to you!

 

[leaverus]

it's residency - why in god's name do you expect to be happy? i'm not saying you shouldn't be happy, but if you're getting great training at the expense of your happiness, that's far better than the other way around; especially because residency is temporary, you know?

 

[buccsmf1]

it's residency - why in god's name do you expect to be happy? i'm not saying you shouldn't be happy, but if you're getting great training at the expense of your happiness, that's far better than the other way around; especially because residency is temporary, you know?

Unfortunately, anesthesia does attract some lazy applicants. The conversations I had with people on the trail were insane. I had applicants tell me that program xyz was a workhorse program and when I asked how much they worked they'd reply, "like 60-65 hours a week!" I mean really? It's f'ing residency. My wife works in marketing and she probably puts in 55-60 a week...

Also, the conversations about CRNAs were absurd. One girl told me she wasn't even ranking a certain program because they used AAs instead of CRNAs. She didn't understand when I tried to explain that AAs are an amazing alternative and we should advocate their use at every possible scenario. The ONLY thing she was concerned with was working 40 hours per week and spending 90% of that work week in the break room while a CRNA ran her room.

 

[Dwindlin]

Unfortunately, anesthesia does attract some lazy applicants. The conversations I had with people on the trail were insane. I had applicants tell me that program xyz was a workhorse program and when I asked how much they worked they'd reply, "like 60-65 hours a week!" I mean really? It's f'ing residency. My wife works in marketing and she probably puts in 55-60 a week...

Also, the conversations about CRNAs were absurd. One girl told me she wasn't even ranking a certain program because they used AAs instead of CRNAs. She didn't understand when I tried to explain that AAs are an amazing alternative and we should advocate their use at every possible scenario. The ONLY thing she was concerned with was working 40 hours per week and spending 90% of that work week in the break room while a CRNA ran her room.

Ugh. I chose for the exact opposite reasons. I wanted to be worked hard, want to see as much as I can while I have safety net. We don't utilize mid-levels at all where I'm going in July.


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[leaverus]

Unfortunately, anesthesia does attract some lazy applicants. The conversations I had with people on the trail were insane. I had applicants tell me that program xyz was a workhorse program and when I asked how much they worked they'd reply, "like 60-65 hours a week!" I mean really? It's f'ing residency. My wife works in marketing and she probably puts in 55-60 a week...

Ugh. I chose for the exact opposite reasons. I wanted to be worked hard, want to see as much as I can while I have safety net. We don't utilize mid-levels at all where I'm going in July.

Well, thank goodness there are still people like you guys entering our field then. Anesthesiology certainly doesn't need to be further sullied with lazy people.

 

[PaytoplayMD]

I like how you guys think NU is the hardest program in Chicago. I am pretty sure RUSH is up there and there is no $75 after 5pm. But to the OP, residency is residency. I could see how one or two people out of every residency could feel the same way about their program.

 

[GasAllDay]

We are the Millenial generation, we're ALL about work-life balance! haha jk

Goal is quality over quantity.
Unfortunately, there isn't always a positive correlation between great training and hours worked. If I know I will be doing only lap choles and gyn surgeries on ASA 1/2 patients at the end of my CA-1 year, then those X hours a week will be an absolute chore with limited learning opportunity. Doesn't matter whether X = 40 hours or 70 hours, I don't consider that desirable. Yes, I know, every case is a learning opportunity, you never know what can come up intra-op even with healthy patients. But still! When it comes to picking cases, who wouldn't choose a definite learning opportunity over a possible learning opportunity?

I would rather put in X hours a week during residency doing ASA 3/4/5 cases and taking care of more complex patients. Will I be doing some ASA 1/2 patients? Well, hopefully I'm starting with those! However, working 70 hours a week is cool, as long as there are some 50 hour weeks to balance it out.

Training is my job and I will work hard, but working is not my life.

 

[chmd]

That's the problem w "workhorse" programs. All you do are crna level cases. The best decision I ever made was to choose Wisconsin over northwestern and other programs of its ilk. If I worked past 5, I was doing big cases or sick patients or both.

Future residents, go to a program with AAs and nurses, or you'll find yourselves doing g tubes at 8pm.

 

[Dwindlin]

That's the problem w "workhorse" programs. All you do are crna level cases. The best decision I ever made was to choose Wisconsin over northwestern and other programs of its ilk. If I worked past 5, I was doing big cases or sick patients or both.

Future residents, go to a program with AAs and nurses, or you'll find yourselves doing g tubes at 8pm.

This is a gross generalization. Just because we don't utilize mid levels doesn't mean we are stuck doing low level cases all the time. Most of the "easy cases" are actually covered by attendings who aren't supervising that day. Do you have the occasional day doing "easy" ambulatory stuff? Sure, but it is infrequent and when it does occur it is often in rooms with no surgical resident, so it gives you a chance to work on your efficiency.

Not to mention our primary hospital just doesn't see much of the "CRNA" level cases to begin with, seeing as it is the only tertiary referral center in the state it stays pretty busy with complex cases and patients.




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[Hoya11]

I am biased, given that I only spent one day at NW when interviewing for a fellowship position (decided to go somewhere else prior to their decision, i was never accepted or rejected).

But I always have felt that it was a malignant environment even after only one day there. Several of the residents had "no complaints" type attitudes, then one pulled me aside after I asked (are you happy here?) and told me a very similar story to the OP. Wishes he would have gone anywhere else, miserable just chugging along until the end. Also, during my interview I was having a casual discussion about healthcare, and I was asked for my opinion on socialized healthcare, I gave a vague answer but alluded to the fact that the current system is broken and changes need to happen and that I do believe in healthcare as a right. This was opinion was met with a laugh and dismissal, and honesly I think they wrote me off after expressing that opinion. So yes, I did get the pinky in the air vibe.