Not even competitive for postbacc? Support and/or reality checks needed!

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eloso

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Hi SDN,

Long-time reader, first-time poster. I'm hoping to find some advice and maybe hear from other people who were in the same boat as me.
  • I graduated 2 years ago from a competitive UC with 2.7 cGPA and 1.5 sGPA. I showed an upward trend in my grades only after switching to humanities and then a not-so-stellar last semester as I went through the whole job search. I got B's and C's in Bio, Chem, and OChem, but F's in Math and Physics.
  • I was avidly interested in science but didn't want to and didn't feel that I needed to compete with the premed kids since I didn't think I wanted to go into medicine. I wanted to take the classes for fun but knew ultimately I could just switch my major and go into business later on (and I did and now I have a job that pays well and most people would find very fulfilling).
As you can guess, now I want to go to med school. I will save you all the reasons why, but I am wondering:

(1) Can I even get into a postbacc program (I live in SF)? What would I need to do first?

(2) If I can, and if I spend the next 3-4 years getting clinical/volunteer experience, doing well on the MCAT (I know I'm going to need a 36+), and getting a 4.0 postbacc...will it be enough??

Help? Thank you in advance for the support and advice (constructive or otherwise)

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From a 2.7 you shouldn't be looking at formal premed postbac programs. Too confining. And no, you can't get in with low stats. Programs like Mills/Scripps want students who have already proven their academics. They also want people who haven't taken the prereqs yet. You need to retake the prereqs, as part of a multiple year academic recovery. Give up on having this work out for you on any kind of schedule or on any rational budget.

You'll find out that there are "SMP"s which are for academic enhancement, but you can't get into a good one with your numbers. SMPs cost around $50k and offer no guarantee that you'll get into med school afterwards.

California is the most difficult place to live if you want to go to med school. If you're willing to move to a less competitive state and establish residency before you go after GPA redemption, now's the time to consider that option.

You should find out what DO is and focus on that path if you want to cut a year or so off your redemption path.

One option is to look at a 2nd bachelors, which gets you access to multiple years of hard science classes where you can demonstrate you're an A student. Usually it's hard to get a school to accept you for a 2nd BS, and it's hard to figure out how to pay for it, but it does solve the problem of getting some registration priority and a degree-seeking status.

Along with that option, you should be looking at job listings at universities, which might give you a break on tuition and a way to study maybe half time while helping you get into research labs or clinical support. Regardless, being able to work part time, in a job that doesn't ruin your ability to study, for good money and benefits, would be a very, very sweet asset.

You should look into what Berkeley Extension can do for you.

Search SDN for "low GPA" and spend 10-100 hours studying how people have cracked this problem. 10 is too little. 100 might be enough. You won't find a formula. You won't find a concise set of steps. You will find a ridiculous and endless supply of posts I wrote to try to help people in your situation. Like, thousands of posts. Like this one.

Before you go start taking classes, take one (ONE) reasonably difficult math class, such as at a community college, and get an A. If that is at all difficult for you, then walk away. Not being able to get A's, now that you need to be able to get lots and lots of them predictably, is a dealbreaker.

Lastly, if you go down this path to GPA redemption, there's never ever going to be a guarantee that you'll get into med school. High wire, no net, big debt.

Best of luck to you.
 
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DrMidlife, you're like Jesus on these forums. I'm such a fanboy.
 
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Took me about 4 years to start calling it "GPA redemption" but "GPA resurrection" is actually quite a bit more accurate in my experience. You have to get adcoms to focus on the part where you came back to life.
 
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Took me about 4 years to start calling it "GPA redemption" but "GPA resurrection" is actually quite a bit more accurate in my experience. You have to get adcoms to focus on the part where you came back to life.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that out for me!

I'm curious though-- why would the admissions requirements for a 2nd baccalaureate be less competitive than a post bacc program? I'm still young and will happily take 1 extra year, even 3 extra years, to do this right vs. do this quickly. I would love to get a second bachelors and redeem (read: resurrect) my GPA, but I have only found 1 private school in the Bay Area that offers this and I'm concerned it's just as competitive as a post bacc program, if not more.
 
2nd bachelors options are going to vary greatly by state and by school and by public/private.

I had to take classes as a non-matriculated student, petitioning to get into each class, and then get A's for two semesters, and get recommendation letters, before my app to do a 2nd bachelors was accepted. This was at a massive public university. I think I finally got accepted in a mid-year catchment.

The better the school, the harder it is to get in, and the more likely you'll need to go accumulate some A's before they'll take you seriously. Be flex.
 
stop looking at formal post-bacs, apply to your local university (or even a community college) as a non-degree seeking student and sign up for the pre-req classes and retake some of the other ones.
 
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"Hey med school, so I didn't do so hot when I took these science classes the first time, so I retook them at a community college and did better. We cool?"

No we not cool.
 
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lol but couldn't the same be said for someone who did poorly at berkeley and then aced the courses at a csu? :/
 
let's waste more time by trying to get into a formal post-bac at a fancy university, all the cool kids are doing it

all the losers are taking the more affordable classes with the same credit hours at a community college, ew
 
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It's advisable to take the pre-reqs at a state school rather than a CC. That doesn't mean you have to enroll in a "formal post-bacc at a fancy university." You should pick the local university rather than the CC in town because the standards at the CC are lower. Ad-coms do look at the general level of difficulty of your coursework to some degree, apparently.

Most of the people who post here about grade repair post a few times and are never heard from again. Feel free to laugh off DrMidLife's advice if you'd like to gamble with $10,000+ and 2-3 years of your life. I, for one, couldn't be more grateful that I read her posts in May 2011 before venturing into Grade Repair Land.
 
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I had a similar undergrad GPA as you, but I did not take any prerequisite courses.

The path I am on is a long one. I think if you interested in post-bac programs your first goal should be to get your cumulative GPA over 3.0, preferably to 3.2 if possible.

I would do this by taking the most affordable classes you can - for me this was at a community college. I stress that these should not be your pre-req retakes.

If this works out (1-2 years likely) then you should pursue a post-bac program where you can retake your pre-reqs at a high-caliber university or program.

SFSU has a good program, but they won't take you at that GPA level.
 
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Usually when people get pissed off at me for not fully embracing the community college pathway for GPA repair, it turns out that they are:
a) in a completely different situation than the question being discussed, such as being URM, and/or being in MI/LA/etc which are not at all like California, and/or they aren't repeating coursework, and/or they're not doing GPA repair at all but have maybe a 3.8 from a university. Such situations make community college work much less controversial.
b) or they are doing exactly what we're advising the OP not to do (repeat science coursework at a school that could EASILY be perceived as less rigorous) and are defending their choices, maybe because it's WAY HARDER to get established at a university. Sure.

Regardless, from a 2.7 and a 1.anything in science, if an option looks easy or inexpensive or convenient, that option is going to cost money and time without getting you very far. It's easy to spend 2-3 years doing "work" to improve your chances without making real progress in the eyes of med school adcoms, and then you just end up with the same choice you would have had before those 2-3 years of work.

From a 2.7, you can absolutely get a med school to accept you. The Carib loves you, always will. The Carib will be delighted (DELIGHTED) to take your tuition for 2 years, and fail you out before you can take step 1. If that sounds like a blast, then take the easy road. Enjoy.
 
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Retake all F/D/C science coursework and apply to DO schools. AACOMAS grade replacement policy does wonders for the GPA.

If you're boning for the MD degree, then do a DIY post-bac.

If you ace your post-bac and MCAT, then yes, there are MD schools that reward reinvention.

Hi SDN,

Long-time reader, first-time poster. I'm hoping to find some advice and maybe hear from other people who were in the same boat as me.
  • I graduated 2 years ago from a competitive UC with 2.7 cGPA and 1.5 sGPA. I showed an upward trend in my grades only after switching to humanities and then a not-so-stellar last semester as I went through the whole job search. I got B's and C's in Bio, Chem, and OChem, but F's in Math and Physics.
  • I was avidly interested in science but didn't want to and didn't feel that I needed to compete with the premed kids since I didn't think I wanted to go into medicine. I wanted to take the classes for fun but knew ultimately I could just switch my major and go into business later on (and I did and now I have a job that pays well and most people would find very fulfilling).
As you can guess, now I want to go to med school. I will save you all the reasons why, but I am wondering:

(1) Can I even get into a postbacc program (I live in SF)? What would I need to do first?

(2) If I can, and if I spend the next 3-4 years getting clinical/volunteer experience, doing well on the MCAT (I know I'm going to need a 36+), and getting a 4.0 postbacc...will it be enough??

Help? Thank you in advance for the support and advice (constructive or otherwise)
 
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I found this thread while browsing SDN for stories similar to mine. I'm a California resident with a low undergrad science GPA and I'm applying to MD schools right now.

I graduated from an Ivy League school in a science major but my BCPM was ~3.0. I applied to a non degree-granting, record-enhancement post-bac program at a Cal State (but it was more like a DIY post-bac than a structured program). The CSUs are not community colleges but the classes were less rigorous than at my undergrad institution and the medical schools didn't seem to mind that. I retook some pre-reqs (o-chem and physics), took more science classes, and took classes like medical anthropology as well. I raised my science GPA to a 3.1, which sounds meager but it's because I was mediocre in so many science classes as an undergrad and because I was working full time while doing the post-bac so I couldn't take that many classes. I believe you can take classes at community college or "extension" courses to qualify for the minimum GPA required to apply to post-bac programs as long as the other parts of your post-bac application are stellar and convincing. I initially didn't get into my CSU one because one of my letter of recs never arrived to complete my file. However, I called the post-bac office in the summer and they just let me in.

I applied to my post-bac program after getting my MCAT scores. I got somewhere in the 37 - 40 range so I was confident I stood a good chance if I could raise my GPA. My ECs are probably average based on comparing mine to my friends'. My letter of recs were probably at or above average because I knew each recommender well. Basically, after finishing my MCAT, I knew that the rest of my application would be decent. I liked that I did my MCAT before committing my time and my money to raising my GPA because the MCAT score was the thing I was most unsure about. Getting good grades in more classes is much more certain than doing well on one long test. Doing well on the MCAT gave me the confidence to spend the time, effort, and energy on a post-bac program. However, this does mean that you need to apply within the time that your MCAT is valid for.

These next 2 paragraphs are mainly about events far in your future but I'll say them anyways. My undergrad premed committee told me to wait another year before applying, apply to more schools, apply to DO schools, rewrite my personal statement 2 days before I was going to submit my primary, etc. Had I listened to them, I would not have applied to and gotten interviews at my "reach" schools. I only took heed of their second piece of advice and applied to many schools with a range of matriculant statistics. I trust they meant well and wanted to give me the best chance at becoming a doctor. However, they had nothing positive to say about my candidacy and it hurt feeling like they wrote me off but I took their concern to heart and focused on making my secondary applications unique. I really tried to write things I felt no one else could. Therefore, when you're choosing activities, maybe focus on making them meaningful as well as unique. Whenever appropriate in the secondaries, I also explained why I got such bad grades in pre-req classes and what I learned about myself and what I would do differently.

Another thing I realized later on, and therefore didn't do, is that you should add your schools all at once to the primary because schools can apparently see when your primary was verified and if you add them later on, it could seem like that school is an afterthought. I just added schools in batches as I got my paychecks but I wish I had known to not do that. No one likes feeling like they're second class, especially medical school admissions officers with thousands of other eager applicants to choose from. This is one of the many minor things you'll have to consider if you apply. Once you raise your GPA, research all parts of the application process itself as well.

After months of waiting and worrying and wondering if what I did was good enough, I now have many interviews, 3 or 4 hold-for-interviews, and one acceptance! I still haven't even heard from over half of the schools I applied to. Without having any personal connections, I got interview offers at schools I was told were way above my reach due my low GPA and ORM-ness.

Anything is possible. Just apply when you're ready ("ready" being when you're confident that you will get enough interviews to clinch one acceptance) and apply to a lot of schools. Do everything you can to make sure your primary and secondaries are done well, correctly, and quickly. It's better to spend the money and time now than in a second round of applications. OP: It's a good thing you're prepared to do this the right way and not the quick way because that's the only way to do this without relying heavily on luck, and personal connections, and praying to every deity out there. I know that the situation I needed to redeem myself from was much better than yours so you'll have to do the hustling I did, but a lot more of it. However, just know that there are some real people out there reading your applications and all it takes is for one school to see your potential and dedication. Good luck!

[edited once for more anonymity]
 
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Thank you so much for your thoughtful response and congrats on your acceptance! I agree with you that your situation was much better than mine, but it is nevertheless really encouraging to hear from someone else traveling along a similar path. I really appreciate the advice.

I found this thread while browsing SDN for stories similar to mine. I'm a California resident with a low undergrad science GPA and I'm applying to MD schools right now.

I graduated from an Ivy League school (Harvard, Princeton or Yale specifically) in a science major but my BCPM was a hair above 3.0. I applied to a non degree-granting, record-enhancement post-bac program at a Cal State (but it was more like a DIY post-bac than a structured program). The CSUs are not community colleges but the classes were less rigorous than at my undergrad institution and the medical schools didn't seem to mind that. It costs ~$10,000 for 4 quarters. I retook some pre-reqs (o-chem and physics), took more science classes, and took classes like medical anthropology as well. I raised my science GPA to a 3.1, which sounds meager but it's because I was mediocre in so many science classes as an undergrad and because I was working full time while doing the post-bac so I couldn't take that many classes. I believe you can take classes at community college or "extension" courses to qualify for the minimum GPA required to apply to post-bac programs as long as the other parts of your post-bac application are stellar and convincing. I initially didn't get into my CSU one because one of my letter of recs never arrived to complete my file. However, I called the post-bac office in the summer and they just let me in.

I applied to my post-bac program after getting my MCAT scores. I got somewhere in the 37 - 40 range so I was confident I stood a good chance if I could raise my GPA. My ECs are probably average based on comparing mine to my friends'. My letter of recs were probably at or above average because I knew each recommender well. Basically, after finishing my MCAT, I knew that the rest of my application would be decent. I liked that I did my MCAT before committing my time and my money to raising my GPA because the MCAT score was the thing I was most unsure about. Getting good grades in more classes is much more certain than doing well on one long test. Doing well on the MCAT gave me the confidence to spend the time, effort, and energy on a post-bac program. However, this does mean that you need to apply within the time that your MCAT is valid for.

These next 2 paragraphs are mainly about events far in your future but I'll say them anyways. My undergrad premed committee told me to wait another year before applying, apply to more schools, apply to DO schools, rewrite my personal statement 2 days before I was going to submit my primary, etc. Had I listened to them, I would not have applied to and gotten interviews at my "reach" schools. I only took heed of their second piece of advice and applied to many schools with a range of matriculant statistics. I trust they meant well and wanted to give me the best chance at becoming a doctor. However, they had nothing positive to say about my candidacy and it hurt feeling like they wrote me off but I took their concern to heart and focused on making my secondary applications unique. I really tried to write things I felt no one else could. Therefore, when you're choosing activities, maybe focus on making them meaningful as well as unique. Whenever appropriate in the secondaries, I also explained why I got such bad grades in pre-req classes and what I learned about myself and what I would do differently.

Another thing I realized later on, and therefore didn't do, is that you should add your schools all at once to the primary because schools can apparently see when your primary was verified and if you add them later on, it could seem like that school is an afterthought. I just added schools in batches as I got my paychecks but I wish I had known to not do that. No one likes feeling like they're second class, especially medical school admissions officers with thousands of other eager applicants to choose from. This is one of the many minor things you'll have to consider if you apply. Once you raise your GPA, research all parts of the application process itself as well.

After months of waiting and worrying and wondering if what I did was good enough, I now have 7 interviews, 3 hold-for-interviews, and one acceptance! I still haven't even heard from over half of the schools I applied to. Without having any personal connections, I got interview offers at schools I was told were way above my reach due my low GPA and ORM-ness (e.g. Washington University in Saint Louis).

Anything is possible. Just apply when you're ready ("ready" being when you're confident that you will get enough interviews to clinch one acceptance) and apply to a lot of schools. Do everything you can to make sure your primary and secondaries are done well, correctly, and quickly. It's better to spend the money and time now than in a second round of applications. OP: It's a good thing you're prepared to do this the right way and not the quick way because that's the only way to do this without relying heavily on luck, and personal connections, and praying to every deity out there. I know that the situation I needed to redeem myself from was much better than yours so you'll have to do the hustling I did, but a lot more of it. However, just know that there are some real people out there reading your applications and all it takes is for one school to see your potential and dedication. Good luck!
 
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response and congrats on your acceptance! I agree with you that your situation was much better than mine, but it is nevertheless really encouraging to hear from someone else traveling along a similar path. I really appreciate the advice.

You're welcome! Thanks! In my opinion, your situation just requires similar, but more, effort to undeniably demonstrate that you can both handle the curriculum and to show that you're 100% devoted. It is possible. Schools didn't seem to mind that the courses I retook at a CSU were less rigorous and the flexibility of that program just worked perfectly for me. My undergrad pre-med committee tried to convince me to go to a big-name SMP like the Georgetown one but they're really expensive. At one of my interviews, there were several people from the big-name SMPs and Masters programs so it seems there are many routes to success although some are more traveled.

There are real people reading these applications and they're just as persuaded by grit and determination and potential as you and I. Just do everything you can starting from now until the last of your secondaries are complete in order to show them that you are capable and driven.
 
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Okay So I did my undergrad in psychology graduated with a 3.4

The enrolled as a second degree chemistry major, did two years and the sciences killed my gpa to a 2.9 BUT it is cheaper than a formal post-bacc if you dont have the requirements. A lot of Post baccs expect you to have the requirements.

I applied this cycle and have not gotten interviews :( BUT I am hoping still :)

Also looking into MS one year programs to boost GPA AND get a degree since I did not from my pre-reqs. My conflict is that it takes so much time and money and energy and I am approaching 30.

But this is the road less traveled....
 
DrMidlife, you're like Jesus on these forums. I'm such a fanboy.

Much respect to Dr. Midlife; but Jesus. LOL Jesus wouldn't put a sign saying "Get off my lawn." LOL :)

Good advice about the math course.
 
let's waste more time by trying to get into a formal post-bac at a fancy university, all the cool kids are doing it

all the losers are taking the more affordable classes with the same credit hours at a community college, ew


I hear what you are saying, and it truly depends on the school and the professors, etc. . .but honestly, I have mixed feelings.

Maybe take some lower level sci's and a challenging math at CC, then do the rest at a four-year. Personally I'd like to think that it shouldn't matter, b/c the curriculum should basically be the same. Whatever. Maybe the best bet is to split the difference, as I said.
 
Much respect to Dr. Midlife; but Jesus. LOL Jesus wouldn't put a sign saying "Get off my lawn." LOL :)

Good advice about the math course.

You're right Jesus wouldn't put that sign up, he could never be that cool.
 
What? Dude, whatever. We have different views of cool. And it was a joke.
Embracing others beats walling people off any day; but, sound boundaries have their place as well. So.... ;)
 
I am so confused, what just happened...
I was 100% trying to make a joke as well actually, and apparently it's backfired miserably?

the joke was along the lines of 'jesus couldn't be as cool as cool as Drmidlife'. That's essentially what i was trying to get at there...

i'm still confused here.

What? Dude, whatever. We have different views of cool. And it was a joke.
Embracing others beats walling people off any day; but, sound boundaries have their place as well. So.... ;)
 
The only viable option is to start with retaking the pre reqs. Good luck!
 
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