- Joined
- May 17, 2012
- Messages
- 404
- Reaction score
- 379
in addition to the finishing of the currently-in-construction research building and planned on-campus hospital. Lets chat osteopathic medicine
So kind of like MSU?
So if I apply to NOVA, will they consider me for both programs?
So if I apply to NOVA, will they consider me for both programs?
This is nuts, and to me doesn't make any sense. If they are truly aiming to "help meet the growing need of osteopathic (D.O.) and allopathic (M.D.) physicians nationally and regionally" - why then wouldn't you just open up more seats in your DO program? Why distinguish further between the two types of physicians?
Maybe someone at Nova can comment further - what purpose would this serve?
We had one hell of a Dean's hour today, I can tell you that much.
The university wants a research-intensive medical school to complement the large push for biomedical research they are doing right now. Evidently they did not feel the COM could or would be able to fill that role. Funny, since the new research building is literally right next to the COM building, and the new school will be in North Miami Beach. Either way, it will be a long time before this is up and running. It doesn't really affect us current students, but we do feel a little stung by the university's lack of support.
haha Nova dean's hours are always a lively event. last year we had some real hot ones when they shifted us to mandatory attendance
Nova has mandatory lecture?
no, they pulled back the plan after a fairly heated debate. We have mandatory labs and a mandatory friday morning class based on clinical reasoning, plus required 70% attendance at OPP lecture.
Woah 70% of OPP attendance? That's a bit much. I've been to 1 OMM lecture in my life, that stuff can easily be crammed in a few days.
It's 50 minutes a week.Woah 70% of OPP attendance? That's a bit much. I've been to 1 OMM lecture in my life, that stuff can easily be crammed in a few days.
First of all, there are 240 students in my class and no room for more.
Secondly, NSU is a university and the COM is a college within it. This MD program is being opened by the University, not the DO college. I would not be surprised if this was done over the objections of the college, but I'm not privy to the internal politics and such.
We had one hell of a Dean's hour today, I can tell you that much.
The university wants a research-intensive medical school to complement the large push for biomedical research they are doing right now. Evidently they did not feel the COM could or would be able to fill that role. Funny, since the new research building is literally right next to the COM building, and the new school will be in North Miami Beach. Either way, it will be a long time before this is up and running. It doesn't really affect us current students, but we do feel a little stung by the university's lack of support.
Lol if you have 240 seats in your program, wouldn't you think it would be better to allocate additional resources to open up more spots within a program (increase the faculty:student ratio, smaller anatomy lab groups) that's already established itself over the years - instead of starting a WHOLE new program - which again would take away from the DO students' resources anyways (you're still adding close to 100 more medical students, except this time they're MD, but will regardless take up study space, etc.)?
They have filed for a class size increase to 250, but I believe 250 (plus 8%, 270) is the max that COCA allows for one campus. The COM cannot expand further unless it opens a branch campus.Lol if you have 240 seats in your program, wouldn't you think it would be better to allocate additional resources to open up more spots within a program (increase the faculty:student ratio, smaller anatomy lab groups) that's already established itself over the years - instead of starting a WHOLE new program - which again would take away from the DO students' resources anyways (you're still adding close to 100 more medical students, except this time they're MD, but will regardless take up study space, etc.)?
This is clearly a $$$ driven move, because if they truly had an interest in putting out more physicians to cover the "shortage" - it would be smart to allocate more resources and funding to an already solid physician training program.
Obviously the program is being opened by NSU, and not NSU-COM specifically - lol I thought that was pretty self-explanatory considering its a major COI.
I'm not in school administration, so I don't know much about resource allocation. I think the idea that the MD school would detract from the DO school's resources is an assumption, but not necessarily true. The MD school will be in Miami beach, which is a different city/county about half an hour from Nova.
I don't think its unreasonable for a university to open an MD program if they think it will increase prestige and research opportunities. The short answer is that University administration, and COM administration, see a distinction between DO and MD that is significant enough that they think opening an MD school would be beneficial for the university and community.
DO leadership is to blame for this. Every chance we get we keep shouting the whole "separate but equal!" slogan, yet when we want to match residencies we say "we're the same!". We feel the need to interject OMM into EVERYTHING. Doing community blood pressures and health check ups? Better make sure we do unnecessary OMM there too! DO leadership puts so much emphasis on OMM and making sure the public knows that we perform "manual manipulations" that it's no wonder the public has no idea what we really do. Instead of showing the public that there are plenty of DOs in surgery, anesthesia, cardiology etc. we seem hell bent on showing off our osteopathic hands. DOs are poorly misunderstood by anybody who's not in health care, and to be honest it's our own fault.
I wouldn't assume that the COM is in support of this. Dean's hour today made it seem like that was not necessarily the case.I'm not in school administration, so I don't know much about resource allocation. I think the idea that the MD school would detract from the DO school's resources is an assumption, but not necessarily true. The MD school will be in Miami beach, which is a different city/county about half an hour from Nova.
I don't think its unreasonable for a university to open an MD program if they think it will increase prestige and research opportunities. The short answer is that University administration, and COM administration, see a distinction between DO and MD that is significant enough that they think opening an MD school would be beneficial for the university and community.
This literally could not have been said any better. You 100% hit the nail on the head. I'm beginning my first year in August, so I know my inexperience really discredits anything I say but, really the general public has no clue what a DO is because of that reason.
I'm not saying that OMM should be sidestepped or removed from the curriculum because idk the practice as many of you who have learned and used it (not having tried it to treat others) to even comment on it. But "we" should stop using it as the forefront of our campaign to justify a DO degree.
So if I apply to NOVA, will they consider me for both programs?
First of all, there are 240 students in my class and no room for more.
Secondly, NSU is a university and the COM is a college within it. This MD program is being opened by the University, not the DO college. I would not be surprised if this was done over the objections of the college, but I'm not privy to the internal politics and such.
i have a quick question about NOVA: i looked at the calendar, and it says that med school (D.O.) has summer classes. So how much time do you have for summer break if you go to NOVA?
I suspect that it will be more the other way - the MD school will eventually cannibalize teaching and/or research faculty and facilities and rotation sites from the existing DO school. This is similar to why Rowan wanted to absorb UMDNJ's DO school at the same time they opened their MD school.Obviously there are problems with med school expansion and the match that we don't need to rehash here, but overall, couldn't this be a good thing for NSU-COM students... think of all the resources that an MD school will bring in that NSU-COM students will be able to take advantage of? Seems to have worked out that way for MSU.
That would be difficult, considering the new research facilities (the building is already being built) and soon-to-be Nova teaching hospital will both be on campus in Davie and the MD school will be 40 minutes away in North Miami Beach. I think there will be plenty of rotation spots for everybody, as HCA is massively ramping up the overall size of its medical education capacity as part of its agreement with NSUCOM. The MD school will definitely be more research-intensive and have facilities of its own, but I don't see anything being "stolen" from the COM based on what we know right now.I suspect that it will be more the other way - the MD school will eventually cannibalize teaching and/or research faculty and facilities and rotation sites from the existing DO school. This is similar to why Rowan wanted to absorb UMDNJ's DO school at the same time they opened their MD school.
your posts always seem to be about DO's being persecuted in some way...I suspect that it will be more the other way - the MD school will eventually cannibalize teaching and/or research faculty and facilities and rotation sites from the existing DO school. This is similar to why Rowan wanted to absorb UMDNJ's DO school at the same time they opened their MD school.
Time will tell. I would be surprised if we don't see MD students rotating through spots that were previously occupied by DO students. 40 minutes isn't that long of a drive. It sounds like you're pretty aware of what they're doing, though.That would be difficult, considering the new research facilities (the building is already being built) and soon-to-be Nova teaching hospital will both be on campus in Davie and the MD school will be 40 minutes away in North Miami Beach. I think there will be plenty of rotation spots for everybody, as HCA is massively ramping up the overall size of its medical education capacity as part of its agreement with NSUCOM. The MD school will definitely be more research-intensive and have facilities of its own, but I don't see anything being "stolen" from the COM based on what we know right now.
your posts always seem to be about DO's being persecuted in some way...
your posts always seem to be about DO's being persecuted in some way...
Maybe that's the case with his posts but honestly he's right, this screws the DO kids. The rotation sites are limited in of itself down in a place like Florida. It's not like NYC where you have multiple other options to rotate at if you've lost a couple.
Also, I wonder if we're seeing the beginning of a trend in which new MD schools are opened in a model previously more characteristic of DO schools.
Think TCMC, a stand-alone, community-based private med school that could have easily been opened as a DO program.
Think Roseman University, a newish, outrageously expensive health sciences grad school with office-park campuses in two states that now wants to open an MD program.
Now the LCME has allowed the possibility of for-profit schools opening up, and there are at least a couple applicants.
A lot of the problems we assign to DO schools are really problems with the education industry overall, and MD schools are not immune.
Can you source that statement?
Thanks NurWollen!
That's insane they made that change!
Also, I wonder if we're seeing the beginning of a trend in which new MD schools are opened in a model previously more characteristic of DO schools.
Think TCMC, a stand-alone, community-based private med school that could have easily been opened as a DO program.
Think Roseman University, a newish, outrageously expensive health sciences grad school with office-park campuses in two states that now wants to open an MD program.
Now the LCME has allowed the possibility of for-profit schools opening up, and there are at least a couple applicants.
A lot of the problems we assign to DO schools are really problems with the education industry overall, and MD schools are not immune.
Isn't there a joke along the lines of the following:I'm not in school administration, so I don't know much about resource allocation. I think the idea that the MD school would detract from the DO school's resources is an assumption, but not necessarily true. The MD school will be in Miami beach, which is a different city/county about half an hour from Nova.
I don't think its unreasonable for a university to open an MD program if they think it will increase prestige and research opportunities. The short answer is that University administration, and COM administration, see a distinction between DO and MD that is significant enough that they think opening an MD school would be beneficial for the university and community.
**aGREED**So, schools exist to make money. DO and MD schools have different markets and that's why it makes sense for money minded individuals to have both in one institution.
The OMT, Biomedical Research, Osteopathic Principles, Patient Care, Underserved debates you're all having........
Let me translate that for you: $, $, $, $, $.